This time the outrage comes from a grandson of Billy Graham who is taking Evangelicals to task for being worse than Catholics. Here is the article and a snippet. "Abusers discourage whistle-blowing by condemning gossip to try to keep people from reporting abuse, he said. Victims are also told to protect the reputation of Jesus." And the best snippet, �Protestants can be very arrogant when pointing to Catholics.�

Damn, if only they had married clergy this wouldn't happen. Oh...wait...they do have married clergy!





http://www.religionnews.com/2013/09...elicals-worse-catholic-church-sex-abuse/

Makes sense. The mission field would be a great place for a pedophile to operate as would volunteering for church youth groups.

Most churches don't want to prosecute criminal behavior because of the bad publicity it will bring.

I'm glad to see this being brought out into the open.

There is abuse going on in any position where there is power.

sometimes I wonder why people never get it people are human and therefore are victims of human desire priest lawman teacher or garbage man ALL are human and all are susceptible covering it up does no one any good.
drag it out and deal with it as soon as possible and move on.

I was 16 when I was abused by a church youth leader. He was fired but went from church to the boy scouts. I posted about it once here and named the ass hole. Some one in Missouri was searching and found my post, signed up and sent me a PM. He was tracing this guy as he went from church to church and scout group to scout group across the country.

Let this be a lesson to you fathers. Stay involved with your kids activities. I became a youth leader and a 4-H leader because I was making sure what happened to me never happened to my kids. None of my six were ever abused except for my son and that was done by my ex wife when I was on the other side of the country.

Scott, forgive me for asking, but how is a 16 yr old abused by another adult? Especially not ones parent? Honest question and not taking a shot at you here. I work with youth every week in ministry.

Powerful positions strongly attract the very worst mankind has to offer.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I've got to question the comment "another adult" Consensual sex with a 16 year old in NH is statutory rape, and for good reason. Most 16 year old are not mature enough to make that kind of decision. Most abusers use their age to their advantage, Many in addition are in a possition of authority over the victim. Add the possibility of alcohol, pot, porn etc. and it hardly becomes sex between two equals.

I hope there's a special place in hell for those that abuse children or the elderly, -TomT

I agree. And it makes sense too, though Terry is not being realistic about it, to deny priests the human bodies urges, one way or another is simply not healthy IMHO.

Married priests wont make it all go away, we know that, its like criminals, no matter what you do, there will alwyas be a percentage of that element.

And that doesn't mean I as a Lutheran, feel its fair to point only at priests in things like this, as noted all folks have their failures. It just seems that no marrying, sets one up for a disaster. After all Priests are human, and not Jesus.

Heck I get as much out of a service of our local deacons, as I do the non married priests. And feel, personally, those deacons relate to life and marriage and kids much better than one that has never walked a mile in those shoes.

Still some antiquated things about the Catholic church at times, but that goes for any churches.

not about to engage in a catholic vs. protestant debate. the issue or problem goes far beyond that. it's biological, which is a "wiring" issue overlain by cultural software.

throughout the ages, when a young human reaches breeding age, that is can conceive, or cause a conception, culture/society/community whatever you want to call it has to start issuing rules & regs about this reality. cultures vary. not saying whose right and whose wrong. just that cultural values come into play. what is best for our young folks is the question. we're talking about our children, our neighbors children, the children across town, etc. etc.

it should be a simple answer, but insofar as I know, it never has been.

A major contributor to the problem is the exceedingly intimate details that a minister becomes privy-to in private, personal counseling. Exacerbating the peril of this exposure is the tendency of a truly caring and sensitive counselor to feel a very compassionate love for any abused person whom he's counseling � especially during a very intimate private counseling session.

Further exacerbation comes in the form of predatory, trophy-hunting women who'd like nothing better than to seduce a minister. This type of woman is far more common in Christian communities than you might imagine.

Add to all this mandatory celibacy, and the worst sort of result is sooner or later inevitable.

It should come as no surprise that such abuse is common. What's surprising (and somewhat gratifying) is that it's not a lot more common than it is.

None of which excuses or justifies such aberrations, of course. Like judges, ministers are expected to be able to resist such "natural" responses to personal temptation. 'Tain't easy, though.

He had a hand gun. Police had no proof he used force and he walked. My word against his. He did admit he was queer and liked boys but would not admit to force. Police didn't want to do the paperwork.

No offense taken. That would have been back in 1965 and things were a lot different back then in the Midwest.

Which is precisely the reason that some become "ministers."

Church authorities, in their political hunger for recruits, far too eagerly accept new candidates without question, examination, or hesitation. Seminaries and pulpits are 'way too prominently peopled by perverts and predators with little or no concern for souls or spiritual concerns.

One such a person in such a sensitive position of power is too many. Prevalence isn't required for condemnation, correction, or cleansing.

A dirty secret is the fact that many seminaries are FULL of queers, this is of course, more prevalent in the more liberal denominations. Human failings being what they are, I find it far preferable to find out that some preacher had his hot 20 something secretary bent over the desk than to hear some coexist libtard preacher had cornholed some 12yo kid.

The Southern Baptists cleaned house many years ago and took control of their seminaries from the libtards. They are the ONLY major denomination to have ever achieved this, without splintering off into another group, as the Presbyterians and Lutherans had to do.

+1

St. Paul must have been a real whackjob, then.

Keep in mind that no one is holding a gun to the heads of Catholic seminarians forcing them to take their vows.

Why didn't you later smack the SOB with a baseball bat?
Let me change that to first opportunity?

Really, look at what Paul said:

1 Corinthians 7

25 Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord�s mercy is trustworthy. 26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

But what does he say about sexual immorality:

1 Corinthians 7

7 Now for the matters you wrote about: �It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.� 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband.

No place does it say someone should not marry as if it is a sin. Priests were married for a long time after the foundation of the catholic church.
http://www.futurechurch.org/fpm/history.htm

I think the real reason they barred marriage is that priests and bishops actually might become fairly wealthy. I think the Catholic church banned marriage so those priests and bishops would have no legal heirs.

Nuns, whole nuther story

Of course it's not a sin. The Catholic Church doesn't propose that it's a sin. It's a matter of choice to take an oath not to marry. No one is forced to. Marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic Church, i.e., a blessed union for the bearing of offspring within the protection of a family. Doesn't sound to me, from that, like they think it's a sin.

Is it a sin not to muster for morning exercises in the Army? Well, is it? Why then are folks punished in the Army for failure to do that? The answer is because they solemnly agreed, when they signed up, to be subject to the authority of their superiors in rank who are authorized to impose whatever discipline is standard in the Army. Same with Catholic priests when they join up. They are subject to whatever discipline is imposed on them by their superiors in rank, and like the Army recruit, they know what they're getting into when they join up.

It's not a matter of sin, except in that it's a sin to take an oath to abide by the discipline of an organization and then to defy it.

Things were a lot different every where in those days. My Mom was abused when she was 7 years old (1947) by a close friend of her parents her parents told her to quite making up stories, 20 or so years later they found out it was true and never really forgave themselves for it. My sister (15 years old) was a waitress at a local restaurant and was patted on the azz by a friend of my Dads when my Dad found out he made it very clear to the man that if it ever happened again he would be DEAD!

I personally believe that after first conviction child molesters should be shot.

Not as if a sin, but Paul recommended it as it worked out well for him. I would guess it would under Paul's circumstances, but who else in history have had such a life? Somewhere between very few and none, I would believe.

1 Corinthians 7:7-10

7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
KJV

From that you get the idea he was not married. He claims to be a Pharisee. In order to be a Pharisee one had to be married. Therefore he was married.

If the opportunity would have presented itself I would have emasculated him with vice grips. I never saw him again. I got out as soon as I could he he was gone in a matter of hours. If I saw him today I would get out the vice grips.

Lets just say he is not on my Christmas card list. I think he is long dead or has at least changed names. I know I am not the only one looking for him.

Works for me.

This brings to mind Sigmund Freuds' Psycho-Sexual Theory. The whole thing was concocted because he could not believe what were basically confessions of having been molested as children that victorian ladies confided in him.

Queers ain't all, apparently.

Two notorious institutions in my old denomination (UMC) are the Glide Memorial church in San Francisco and Iliff Seminary in Denver. Quite a while ago, Glide allegedly stored weapons for the Black Panther Party and conducted classes in how to organize urban political disturbances. In the late 1960s, secular undergraduates across the street had a nickname for the Iliff seminarians � "the Iliff atheists."

I can not attest to the accuracy of either the allegations or the nickname, but I'm reasonably skeptical of either institution's adherence to Biblical values.

My grandmother (the epitome of a "lady") thought pinking shears to be the answer - as they crush, more than cut!

Mark

Fuggers out to be castrated with a hot branding iron on the town square! To me, there is no worse criminal than a child molester. If one of them ever molested one of my nieces or nephews, they better hope to hell they NEVER get out of jail.

Interesting they would specify the mission fields specifically. Overseas in poor countries has got to be a bonanza for pedophiles.

I still remember twenty five years back I was visiting an American girl living in Oaxaca, in Southern Mexico. In the sidewalk cafes in the morning were a couple of table fulls of middle aged American homosexual men. I was told they went there to pay for sex with boys

If I'd had an Uzi I'd of happily taken them all out.

Somewhat closer to home; as a kid in England I went to a very strict, traditional all-boys Catholic school run by an Irish order of Christian Brothers, all IIRC pledged to celibacy.

Turned out later that probably two of the maybe ten Brothers on hand were molesting the boarding students. A shock to my parents when they found out, even though both Masters were conspicuously touchy-feely with students even in public.

Nothing was said back then, or even suspected.

What had to have been in place was probably a Centuries-long code of silence.

Birdwatcher

Age of consent in most of Mexico is 12 or 13.
Any idea what it was 25 years ago Birdie?

In the early 1950s, I worked on an estate near Baltimore, with a dear old Scot gardener, Sam Reagh (pronounced "Ray").

Sam had been raised on the grounds of an English or Scottish convent (if that's the right word!) where his father was the gardener. One of his father's nocturnal duties (which the boy Sam assisted with) was burying babies sired by the priests and born to the young girls in the convent.

Long-term code of silence? Indeed!

Sexual predators are being accepted by society more and more, Boy Scouts for example. By allowing perverts to openly join our children's organizations, we are welcoming this behavior with open arms.

It's really disgusting.

So, it was legal? No worries, I SAW these men, and could read their character on their faces.

Prob'ly need at least two thirty-round clips.

How "secret" are the existence and activities of NAMBLA? I bet they have both a magazine and a web site.

Think you've misunderstood, I agree on the 30-30, was wondering if law is the same now as then.

Dunno, I'd guess it was, mostly to accommodate the Indios out in the villages marrying off girls that young.