No doubt this is for the Coast Guard to shoot at pirates.

http://offgridsurvival.com/dhsammopurchases/

At what point does the American public start asking why?

In the latest mass purchase of ammunition by our federal government, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is yet again stockpiling massive amounts of ammunition for their �federal officers.� In a solicitation placed on the Federal Governments FBO.gov website, DHS is requesting bids for 25 Million Rounds of Shotgun Ammunition �12 Gauge �Slug� and �Buckshot�.

In October 2013, DHS estimated it already had approximately 159 million rounds in inventory, but as we�ve highlighted in the past, these numbers are probably much higher. In fact, in February of this year, we found a report from the Government Accountability Office which exposed DHS plans to spend $22.7 million to buy an estimated 75.1 million rounds of ammunition.

And let�s not forget the DHS purchase orders placed in 2013 for a shocking 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition � which is still in effect, allowing the feds to manipulate the ammo markets and take possession of this ammo anytime they wish.

At what point does the American public start asking why?

Multiple agencies following DHS example and starting to stockpile ammunition:

It�s not just the Department of Homeland Security; it�s pretty much ever federal agency who is now stockpiling massive amounts of ammunition. While the government scrambles to pass laws limiting the public�s second amendment rights, they are at the same time arming federal employees like nothing we�ve ever seen.

In August of 2013, The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) placed a solicitation for 3,454,000 rounds of .347 SIG ammo.
In January of 2014, the United States Postal Service placed a solicitation for �proposals for assorted small arms ammunition.�
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration even got in on the action and placed orders for 56,000 Rounds of .40 Caliber 180 Grain Jacketed Hollow Points and 16,000 Rounds of .40 Caliber Frangible Lead Free Rounds.

At what point does the American public start asking why?

Militarization of Local Police Forces

While these ammunition purchases raise alarm bells, even more troubling is the amount of battlefield gear and equipment being pumped into local police forces throughout the United States � something that we�ve covered numerous times over the last couple of years.

United States Army gives DHS & Local Police forces 13,000 MRAPs (Mine-Resistant Ambush-Protected Vehicles) � all at no cost!
Small Rural Towns � many with populations under 30K � receiving $793K Mine-Resistant Military Vehicles
DHS in the process of building a fleet of Predator B Drones that will be deployed throughout the United States.
DHS admits to spending 1.4 Billion Dollars to Spy on American Public through Fusion Centers

Questions every American should be asking:

Why do our local police forces need advanced weaponry and Mine-Resistant Ambush-Protected vehicles intended for the field of battle?
Why does DHS need a fleet of battlefield drones?
Why do so many government agencies � all of which have no real law enforcement power � need to be armed?
As the Feds cut billions of dollars to our military, and purge over 20,000 marines, why are they shifting that money to arm local police forces and government agencies?

At what point does the American public start asking why?

Those who know history should take note. Remember one of the big factors of Germany successfully using "Blitzkrieg" tactics was their big military buildup prior to the war. This was in direct violation of the WWI treaties which limited Germany's military. The allies weren't unaware, they just ignored it and some even thought it was good. Then the tanks rolled into Poland and the Sudetenland.

Lots of Americans know about all this but we assure each other that it's "normal" and listen to dickweasels who relentlessly flame those who are calling attention to these activities, "tin foil hat wearers" and the like. Some of these questions are valid.

Disconcerting is an understatement.

Yet the media gives them a pass on these purchases.

Even though they would lie, has the government ever given a reason for stock piling ammo?

When did these massive purchases start? Was it in 2013?

At what point does all the secrecy truly move from needed "National Security" to clandestine, treasonous ops being made by persons who either are attempting to or have already co-opted the government? At what point do we admit to ourselves that in reality, the destination of the majority of Democrat politicians and our faves, Republican politicians, are one in the same even if the paths taken to get there differ?

I do not hate my government and I love my country. However, I do fear that the one is being taken over by forces who wish to control the other.

And, when the players change, it'll all get sold as government surplus for pennies on the dollar.

Some here claim that they are normal. That they have always done business this way. I am not privy to that info and so have been pretty middle-of-the-road about the whole thing. However when put into context by taking all of these different moves being made together, I think one has to at least seriously consider some very scary possibilities.

If I understand correctly, they haven't taken possession of most of it.

Kind of a "Will Call" situation.

Really? To whom? I have not seen any such thing. As a kid I remember cheap military surplus stuff, but not for years. Military surplus items, excluding ammo even, at least from the USA, certainly do NOT seem cheap to me. Ammo itself has fluctuated somewhat, but has never came back down to where it was pre-Obama and before that even, the cheaper calibers such as 5.56 had taken significant increases from the 90's. There are other possible explanations for this but...You go to buy from the DCMP and even that stuff is high-dollar.

The point was made in the article that this allows the .gov to manipulate the market at the very least, without even actually purchasing the ammo.

I'm well stocked on most stuff, but to me anyway, there's a big difference between 1000 rounds of 44 Mag. and the same amount of 223. 1000 rounds of 44 is a huge amount whereas 10,000 of 223 would be about right. I saw some 900 round cases of 223 at Academy last weekend for $500. For many years the going rate for 223 premium grade, new manufactured milsurp...say Winchester whitebox, was $150-200 per 1000.

Sounds like somebody placed an order for five years worth of shotgun ammo.



Travis

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...re_on_the_22_rimfire_shortag#Post8785940


What goes up always comes back down.

Why aren't the Republican Congressmen screaming about this to the American people daily...?

Because they work for Team Fed and the Party of Gov't just as much as the other party.

One of two reasons
1 Either they just see it as a necessary means to an end.
OR
2 It's just business as usual and they think we're nuts for raising such a ruckus over nothing.

You pick.

Yup. My guess is that prices will drop pretty quick when that second amendment abolishionist leaves the white house. I hope any gun owners who voted for him have learned their lesson.

I don't disagree that folks need to watch this, but the .gov folks are in the same boat we are in also, I"ve advised my local LEO and actual city police also, that if they are smart they'll stockpile 2 years of ammo adn then rotate, instead of buying qual ammo 2 months before qual and then be amazed there is none.

If you have EVERYONE following the same advice, no wonder we ain't catching up.

What does amaze me though, is that if I was .gov, and wanted to stock up for another blitz, and I sure ain't gonna be the one that says it'll never happen again... I'd open my own .gov branch to make brass, bullets, primers, powder and load my own. Much like LC does in a way for military ammo for our troops. The amazing part is why have they not done that yet?

They did.



Travis

unca sugar cant enact gun control.............


so he buys up ammo in huge orders and creates raw material shortages across the entire industry

then you have all the tackleberry,s buying shyt up as fast as it hits the stores with nothing else to do all day besides stand in line at wally world at 5 am eating breakfast bisquits waiting for 7am stocking time


it all equals informal gun control

if a brick of 22's don't last the rest of your life you better find another way to get it done.

You've obviously never shot ground squirrels.

Or had kids and grandkids.

Or a rational thought..............

Liberal idiots are so funny when they talk about things that they don't understand.

Well, then, smoke em if you got'em. But don't whine, when you run low.

It'll never get sold. It will just get destroyed if overstocked.

All of congress is in on this but they do not understand when it is over they will have no job. A king does not need a congress.

So then they are both two heads of the same snake...?

I have a question.

How many shotgun shells should DHS order?



Travis

0

Gunner

Everything has a weakness, from what I understand the MRAP is more than a little top-heavy, use your imagination.

seems a reasonable number to me.


I don't think it's a conspiracy per se, but just an unexpected side benefit of the ammo shortage we see currently.

having a firearm is a choice in responsibility, believe the majority of gun owners would agree with that statement.

part of that responsibility is along with knowing when and when not to employ a firearm is the the proficiency in employing said arm.

to do so takes practice, and a fair amount of practice indeed.

that takes ammo and lots of it, depending upon how much practice each individual feels is necessary,.

since this is predominantly a hunting/firearm website, I'd venture we've a goodly percentage of folks posting here that are more proficient with firearms than even the majority of LEO and other "officers" of the law that seem to be expanding exponentially due to DHS, and all the other ABC agencies.

if in 10 years they've lessened the ranks of folks that can afford to practice to become proficient, or turn shooting into such an expensive hobby that only the wealthy can participate in it.

I'd say they've gone a long ways towards their goal of disarming the public at large.

only middle class folks that can afford to shoot may end up being gov't employees where ammunition is provided for them via your tax dollars.


not a bad chess move imo, even though I root for the people over .gov

we live in a gov't controlled economy already, if it wasn't for QE a lot of the big banks and brokerage houses would already be busted. but thanks to the pledge of yours and your kids and grandkids future tax $$ they're humming along nicely.

for .gov to use your tax dollars against you to see that only who they choose can afford to shoot shouldn't come as a big surprise, it would seem.

Agreed, all the dhs needs is ink, they write checks to non-working lazzeee phuuuuuukkks.

Gunner

I don't trust them with any at all.

The Republicans don't say anything about it cause when they take over, the stock will be theirs and they won't have to buy it and get the blame.
As if they really care ---

It's my understanding that they have never taken possession of it.

Hard to destroy something you don't have.

You don't feel the Border Patrol, Customs, etc. should have shotguns?



Travis

Fair enough.



Travis

I can't see the reasoning behind the Coast Guard not having shotguns.



Travis

I'd have assumed most of the thinking population already believed the government was adequately armed.

traditional branches of .gov being armed I have not much quarrel over

but there's a whole slew of new "fed" employees that they seem to be arming

as Bob said, I believe .gov was already adequately armed

and since they can't seem to balance a fing checkbook, I can't see any reason for them to spend even more money. YMMV

I don't know what you mean by this.



Travis

I don't understand what this means.

Assuming 50,000 uniformed personnel consume 100 shotgun shells per year for training and qualification, wouldn't 25 million shotgun rounds equal a five year contract of ammunition?

Maybe my math is off.


Travis

They're planning on shooting a lot of Americans, it would seem.

the feds COULD hide this sort of purchasing, but they don't even bother.

Or a clue....
This is kinda fun, I wonder how far it can go......oh yeah I forgot it involves a liberal skunk, pretty much deems it endless.

I have a very minty Oberndorf Mauser short rifle that serves as a memento of precisely that illegal German military buildup. They were prohibited by the Versailles Treaty from manufacturing military rifles, so they had engraved on all of them "Sport Modelle." It's just a like-new WWI style Mauser 98, just shorter in length, the precursor to the model they eventually standardized for WWII.

Well that certainly is an interesting perspective.

The Marine Corps qualifies how many people every year? Let's see... How many Marines are there? 200,000? How many rounds do they fire to qualify? 50?

That would mean in one year the United States Marine Corps would require 10,000,000 rounds of 5.56 to QUALIFY. No training. No SAW's. No fighting. Just to QUALIFY their personnel.

So I'll ask again since so many people on here seem to have an idea:

How many rounds of 12 gauge should the DHS order?


Travis

Well, considering that a box of 22's was always about a buck, and so was gas from about 1976 or so. Gas is now pretty near 4 bucks.
If I had to pay 5 bucks for a box of 22's, not such a big deal.

i don't need no stinkin .223, f'n military chit.

actually. I think it's because they all need the practice.

for them to get on par with some of the people here will take years

If I knew as much as you, I'd babble too.


Travis

The match is lit......

who knows when it'll be dropped.

My question is why do they need 50,000 uniformed personnel? Why does BLM need a standing army. Why does EPA need a standing army? Why does the Post Office need one? Virtually every department in government including IRS has a standing army. Why?

Show us the way derby! Show us the way!




Travis

Praying the mid terms go well and another dem doesn't occupy the whitehouse for the next 1000 years.

I don't [bleep]' know.

But that has nothing to do with the conversation. The conversation involves the justification of this amount of ammo for 12 gauge shotguns. So let's talk about how many rounds of 12 gauge shotgun this entity requires.

I read an article the other day that stated the Border Patrol has 20,000 personnel, that Customs consists of another 20,000.

That leaves about 10,000 for the Coast Guard and those are the only three I can think of under DHS. So let's crunch some numbers here.


Travis

========

What I mean is they don't need anything more than what they already have.

Really? There are 40K in the Coast Guard. You do know the Coast Guard is in the Persian Gulf and have been right?

All you need is a frigging bong you POS liberal Yankee.

I've been buying shotgun shells every time I go by the sporting goods store knowing it is a matter of time they will be hard to find too.

I wouldn't piss in your beer if you was on fire sh.head.

Travis, you crunched the numbers. 50,000 personnel, all with shotguns. Presuming each shoots 100 round per year, that is 5 million rounds of ammunition. If these are the people charged with protecting our borders, I sure hope that they all shoot more than 100 rounds of shotgun ammunition per year. I shoot twice that in an evening at the range.

Travis, you crunched the numbers. 50,000 personnel, all with shotguns. Presuming each shoots 100 round per year, that is 5 million rounds of ammunition. If these are the people charged with protecting our borders, I sure hope that they all shoot more than 100 rounds of shotgun ammunition per year. I shoot twice that in an evening at the range.

Yep, convinced there is nothing we will or can do about it.

Yep, since when did the dept of education need their own militarization? When did the dept of agriculture start needing a military branch? Since when did the BLM need a military? Since when did the dept of energy? The census bureau? The US health dept and depot of education and state dept and dept of energy?

While at the same time they are demilitarizing the Department of Defense.

Strange sh*t...

Along that line, if we demanded that they fill the ranks of the other departments' paramilitary forces with homosexuals and women as they are doing with the actual military we could neutralize the threat before it gets started.

Why no congressional hearings?
Subpeona the heads of these agencies and question them under oath.
There should be some whistle blowers hiding in the weeds.
Probative questions may provide some interesting answers that could lead to some restrictive legislation.
Government agencies armed to the teeth is troubling - why before you know it they may have as much ammo as those of us here at the Fire;)

Have you hollered at your Reps about this ?
Have you encouraged your friends to do the same?
Who knows what these reps know or don't. It would be interesting to find out or what kind of answers you get.
__________
I recall Obozo alluding to some sort of military and the need for such.
Is he planning on arming OWS and ACORN/SEIU ??

Such and uber douche you have grown to be.

Go light up another one you liberal cocksucking POS. I'm sure you love Cuomo

IMO those dots arent hard to connect. All this [bleep] will look obvious in hindsight.

Unfortunately, the Republican establishment will see to it that a Dem occupies the WH forever and that the Dems will control both houses.

Obviously you don't believe in Government Accountability ;p

This thread cracks me up..

Has anyone kept an eye on gubbermint barbed wire purchases for the fema camps?

(?)

Would a friend piss in my beer if I was on fire?

"Drop and roll!,...I'll piss in your beer!"

When is the last time you heard of them chooting up a bunch of druggies, commies, or any other of ze ro buddies?

For sure, but a brain could clue you in.

Again, you do know that a branch of the Armed Services of the United States falls under the DHS umbrella, right?

Slow learner?

So does the National Guard.

Just checked to see. One hell of a lot of agencies in that Department.

It includes the United States National Guard, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the United States Coast Guard, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, the United States Secret Service, the Transportation Security Administration, the 14 agencies that constitute the U.S. intelligence community and Civil Air Patrol.

Ha. There it it is.

Look, DHS has CIWS




DHS has a 57mm

It's odd to me that guys on a shooting website can't figure out why 10 of thousands of armed people need millions of rounds to stay proficient.

I know if I want to go play with a gun and get good with it I shoot it a lot. I understand a non shooter not understanding that but people that shoot. Just boggles my mind.

I hunt with shotguns a lot and recently went from a pump to an auto with a different safety. I've shot thousands of shells over the last month to get accustomed to the gun and safety because I never want to fumble in the field. I can't imagine the ammo 40k of me would need when I was training for more than pheasants or ducks.

Well in reference to ammunition, that statement would make no sense at all.



Travis

Your comment regarding 22LR covered all we need to know regarding your knowledge of ammo consumption.



Travis

My numbers are purposely conservative.



Travis

That's been done.

Math can be a real [bleep] when it's not in your favor.



Travis

I don't know what that means either.

But please do tell me how much ammo DHS should contract.


Travis

My question is why do they need 50,000 uniformed personnel? Why does BLM need a standing army. Why does EPA need a standing army? Why does the Post Office need one? Virtually every department in government including IRS has a standing army. Why? [/quote]

That is very GOOD question. That and the proliferation of paramilitary LEO'S / SWAT ?
Friends who lived thru wartime Germany told me they never felt like they lived in a police state until they moved here ?! Bet ... Even truer today.

Did you not read the post that contained the agencies that make up Homeland Security?

It's more than 50K. Many enforcement agencies make up HLS.

It includes the United States National Guard, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the United States Coast Guard, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, the United States Secret Service, the Transportation Security Administration, the 14 agencies that constitute the U.S. intelligence community and Civil Air Patrol.

That quote thing is really [bleep] you up. Shame Lauren is stoned out of his mind by now, else he could help you.

Well, according to what I've read and already posted, 40,000 (approximate) belong to Customs and the Border Patrol. I'm pretty sure they're located at Ports of Entry and Border Patrol Stations.

I don't know how many uniformed personnel the Coast Guard employs, but I'm pretty sure they can be found on Coast Guard vessels, and bases.

Hope this answers at least part of your question.

So tell me, how many shotgun shells should DHS contract?



Travis

People only read what fits their [bleep] up imagination.

40,000 active USCG

http://bearingarms.com/breaking-dhs-is-not-buying-up-all-the-ammunition/

Are they just practicing? I am not reading where anyone has been kilt lately.

You forgot the 460,000+ National guardsmen....

And the men & women that make up all 14 U.S. Intelligence agencies and the Secret Service...

National Guard isn't DHS

Don' they need ammo on the space station also?

Yep, since when did the dept of education need their own militarization? When did the dept of agriculture start needing a military branch? Since when did the BLM need a military? Since when did the dept of energy? The census bureau? The US health dept and depot of education and state dept and dept of energy? [/quote]

Did you include EPA, OSHA and DNR?

Military tends to practice. Military tends to be armed when boarding ships, chasing drug boats and providing port security in the Middle East. Weird I know, but that's how they tend to do shiet.

Quotes are still [bleep] you up.

The military uses hollow points? I haven't been in for a while, so I don't know.

Sure

What really burns me is that you always see the same damned MRAP's parked in front of Walmart the mornings they put ammo out and the same damn bunch of guys in black BDU's run in and clean everything off the shelf. Then they tase everybody in line ahead of them to get to the front of the line, not to even mention the fact that they take like 25 boxes of ammo in the 20 items or less lines.

And as if this wasn't bad enough, a couple weeks later the gun shows are full of guys in black ski masks selling this same ammo for like 5 times what they paid for it.


It's enough to make a fellow want to start a revolution.

I didn't think the geneva convention allowed anything but fmj.

Smoke some pot and chill out.

That ain't correct, Geneva convention has nothing to do with it.

That aside, we ain't talking wartime activities with what 95% of what the CG does.

So without a declaration of war, anything goes? I like it.

That's ok, most folks on here haven't the first [bleep] clue, but it's fun to watch.

SH is right. Still attached to the DOD. but have been deployed in Homeland Security operations, such as the southwest border deployments.

SH is always right.

You probably have a link for the hollow point ammo the military use. I can only find where snipers are allowed to use it.

The Military needs Great stores of munitions. I have no problem with that.

What needs to be stopped in its tracks is the build up of "The Peoples' Army of the Bureaucrats", Obama's new Brown Shirts. These are the gang we'll need to defeat. The headlong militarism of all departments of the Federal Government is nothing but a precursor to a totalitarian state.

WE own this nation, not any government entity. They obviously fear us; they're doing everything possible to disarm and marginalize loyal citizens.

I know DOD live fire training was curtailed across the board during sequestration.

I guess that didn't affect DHS ammo purchases.

Doesn't make much sense, but nothing in Washington every does.

You ain't following are you.

Couple of questions:

1) Is the USCG a branch of the Military?

2) Is there anything that states the USCG can't carry HP ammo whilst performing it's Law Enforcement activities?

Yes. It is painfully apparent who shoots, and who doesn't based on the posts one can read in threads like this.

But it's entertaining regardless.


Travis

Here is an article in the Military Times that explains the purchase contracts, what has actually been purchased and what has just been advertised for.

I'd like to see what the ammo requirements and purchases were for each agency before they became part of DHS and compare them to what they are buying now.

That should shed some light.

Military Times DHS Ammo Puchases

Well, according to what I've read and already posted, 40,000 (approximate) belong to Customs and the Border Patrol. I'm pretty sure they're located at Ports of Entry and Border Patrol Stations.

I don't know how many uniformed personnel the Coast Guard employs, but I'm pretty sure they can be found on Coast Guard vessels, and bases.

Hope this answers at least part of your question.

So tell me, how many shotgun shells should DHS contract?

____________________

Thanks.
Still sounds like a shi#load of ammo in the aggregate.
I think it would ease a lot of peoples minds if they broke down the amount of ammo each agency/department gets and for what purpose. Also prior years use and average per year of agencies existence.
__________
Some of these agencies I wouldn't trust with a Barney Fife shotgun.
______________
As far as the TSA goes, form 'em in a circle and give them enough ammo until there is no more TSA.

Pardon the lack of quotes, damn ipad is doing what it feels like doing.
And typing on this mofo ain't easy.
My sincerest apologies.

Are the post office, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the IRS, branches of DHS?

Hell if I know. I was Army, we were military.

They aint patrolling or securing chit Bro Flave.

Gunner

Ask your State Representative.

So that's a no?


Travis

Why? Don't you know?

So was TAK...



Travis

Guess you need to know where the fmj use in military comes from first. Then see if it applies to the USCG whilst conducting LE. How about the Boarder Patrol? Butler, NJ police?

I do.


Travis

Don't you?

All you do is ask questions. It's not my job to answer them.

Worse than a 6 yr. old.

I've listened to Senator Tester explain it.

But personally, I'll take common sense and basic mathematics over anything somebody tells me.

Consumables go quick. Just a fact of life.


Travis

Napolitono wouldn't answer questions either.

Here is one for you Watch4bear?

Under what administration were the agencies you mentioned given an enforcement arm?

Is this the first time they have bought ammunition?

The post office.

Find a buddy from the Army, open a new tab in Google, and buy a calculator. I can't hold your hand all night.



Travis

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

I have a question about that article.
What civilian training courses does one shoot 1800 rounds in a single weekend?

Noodles.



Travis

Some people hate facts.

Read the link I provided earlier.

Look at the ammunition actually delivered versus what was advertised for.

I have no doubt this administration is using bulk straw purchases for DHS to drive up the cost and create shortages.

They're [bleep], but a lot of these agencies have been making ammunition purchases well before the current schitbird took office.

They just didn't use it as a form of illegal gun control.

Okay, here is the deal.



When the chit hits the fan we all on the same side right?




grin

Thats all i was after. Just the facts.

Why don't we focus on what they did get. 900 rounds per year comes down to 75 per month.

I don't think that is excessive.

You'll have to contact the author to find out what training programs go through 1800 a weekend.

It's if you feed me BS in one part of your article how can I believe any of the rest of it?

Just to skew the numbers a little. Not every Member of the CG or Border Patrol carries or has a need to. Field guys , yes and also limited amount.
Rear area military, no. Just MP's and a very limited amount.
Training for these guys initial or ongoing would eat up some ammo.
I see LEO at my range and they don't seem to shoot all that much, could be they are budget constrained or shooting personal ammo unlike the CG and BP.

If you wish to discredit the article, find where the facts are wrong regarding the ammunition purchase quantities and per agent yearly allotment.

I'll happily agree with you.

That is what the article is about, not the author's guess at how many rounds someone may use in civilian training programs.

Trying to state that the facts are wrong because he offers a silly opinion on civilian training programs is a little disingenuous.

When the Coast Guard works over seas assisting in a war who supplies their ammunition and logistical support?

Let me guess. GW Bush?
Let me ask you, if the EPA and OSHA have enforcement arms, can you say "police state"?
Won't mention BLM or DNR, wtf.

there are none s blind as those that will not see.

Thanks.
Just what I needed a beating with a white cane.
__________________
cock-a-doodle-doo 2014

Pur dept has 33 officers, both full time and part time. We qualify four times a year with carry ammo. And are given a 1,000 rounds annually for our own practice. With practic and carry ammo, our dept purchases 55,000 rounds a year, just in handgun ammo. Full time guys are given another thousand rounds for the M-4s and shotguns are"pool" guns. I don't know how much ammo we buy for them. But these numbers are just to put things into acope of what purchaing can be for agencies

I get the feeling some of y'all are not reading the article. That is up to you. However, it seems like reading it might help accurate commentary on it. There is more there than ammo purchases.

Depends

That, is interesting and informative, as I can tell you my local PD in low crime
suburb of approx 30,000 is equipped I'm guessing about the same. Will have to double check.
I didn't get the meaning of "Pur dept", please edify.
If you know, what salary range and how much does it cost your municipality for police protection?
My one observation is that I'm in a low crime area. I lived in Chicago in a district with ever increasing daily crime because of dieversity YET we got less and less police protection. Get this. The explanation from the District Commander was that my district was "low crime" compared to other areas of the city and so we got less and less of the shrinking pie of police protection - so I moved my family out of there.

I can only guess but I'm thinking he meant "our" and not "pur". "O" is next to "p" on most keyboards.

Pur was a typo. Should have been our.

Our collective area of operations is a mix of very rural, and suburban/business district. We have the typical problems every other agency has. We have a finite budget that has to be spread out to cover everything in the dept. training and equipment are always the first things to take a hit. As far ad cost/per officer to the municipality, I don't know. What I can say is that our residents are generally happy with us, and want continue to want more of us, yet at the same time don't want taxes to go up. We have lost three full time slots due to retirement and one guy got hired on with another dept. at this time we have no plans to replace those officers. Instead we suppliment those time slots with part timers and overtime.

We aren't high crime, but we have seen a rise in the past few years especially in break ins

Not the Army, Navy Marines or USAF to my knowledge. I have 110 guards here and we are only allowed to use 9mm ball.

I have 110 guards and we use about 60k of 9mm and 10k of 00 shotgun/ year for qualifying and currency. We use the Navy's range and I can tell you for a fact they throw close to 3M rounds downrange/year, ALL ball BTW.

when my kids were small, they'd shoot a brick of 22s in just a couple trips to the cabin. Between morning and evening hunts, they'd sit on the porch and shoot a couple hundred shots each practically every day we were there.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20100215/NEWS/2150312/Corps-use-more-lethal-ammo-Afghanistan

Is there more to that article that I am not seeing? One sentence is all that shows up.

The Marine Corps is dropping its conventional 5.56mm ammunition in Afghanistan in favor of new deadlier, more accurate rifle rounds, and could field them at any time.

IMHO "open tip" is a PC way of saying "hollow point"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2544535/posts


USMC Adopts New Open-tip �SOST� 5.56 Ammo
2/17/2010

After learning that M855 NATO ammo does not perform well from short-barreled rifles such as the M4 carbine, the U.S. Marine Corps has started issuing a new type of 5.56�45 ammo to its troops in Afghanistan. The new SOST (Special Operations Science and Technology) ammo, officially designated MK 318 MOD 0 �Cartridge, Caliber 5.56mm Ball, Carbine, Barrier�, features a different open-tip 62mm bullet. The new bullet, with a lead core (in the top half) and solid copper bottom half, is similar to hunting bullets such as Federal�s Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. The SOST bullet was designed by Federal/ATK, which will produce the loaded ammunition.

SOST 5.56 ammo

The new SOST ammo was first developed for use by SOCOM (Special Operations) in the SCAR rifle, which has a short, 13.8″ barrel. Even in short-barreled rifles, the SOST provides impressive ballistics � achieving 2925 fps in a 14″ barrel. Compared to M855 ball ammo, SOST rounds are more lethal when shot from short-barreled rifles. According to the Marine Times, SOST ammunition delivers �consistent, rapid fragmentation which shortens the time required to cause incapacitation of enemy combatants�. Using an open-tip design common with some sniper ammunition, SOST rounds are designed to be �barrier blind�, meaning they stay on target better than existing M855 rounds after penetrating windshields, car doors and other objects. This is important to troops in the Middle Eastern theater who must engage insurgents inside vehicles or hiding behind barriers.

In Afghanistan, the USMC will issue SOST ammo for both the short-barreled M4 carbine as well as the original, full-length M16A4. The Corps purchased a �couple million� SOST rounds as part of a joint $6 million, 10.4-million-round buy in September � enough to last the service several months in Afghanistan.

M855 Criticized by Ground Troops and Pentagon Testers

The standard Marine 5.56 round, the M855, was developed in the 1970s and approved as an official NATO round in 1980. In recent years, however, it has been the subject of widespread criticism from troops, who question whether it has enough punch to stop oncoming enemies.

In 2002, shortcomings in the M855′s performance were detailed in a report by Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane, Ind., according to Navy Department documents. Additional testing in 2005 showed shortcomings. The Pentagon issued a request to industry for improved ammunition the following year.

This.

the numbers are severly inflated.....

they are taking into account every swinging Richard they have
from clerks and jerks to actual trigger pullers

they all aint issued a shotgun by far

my company in oif1 Bco 1/502nd IN. got 5 shotguns for issue
a couple of old ithacas and Winchesters
they was issued out to 3 platoons for the #1 man to carry out of your standard 4 man entry team for room clearing while he had his m-4 slung across his back and the 5 guys in the company had maybe 25 rounds apeice of 3 inch 00 buckshot at the most





unca sugar is doing huge buyups taking into account everyone assigned to a branch even little sally the receptionist to create a trickle down effect with raw materials across the entire industry

ammo manufactur gets huge contract
logistics are simplified for delivery to one standard location for the bulk of it then up to unca sugar to get it out
ammo manufactur greatly reduces cost delivering to single buyer versus multiple civilian retail locations



it is all informal gun control with huge gov ammo buyups with its trickle down affect on civilian supply and demand




word....................................................

Your posts show you to be an idiot. 223 is not military "chit" its a sporting round the military happens to use... like the 30-40 krag, the 45-70, the 30-06, the 308 and so on... But what would one expect from a liberal eh?

Anyone ever mention that what a contract says is how much they MIGHT have to fulfill, but rarely from what I understdant, do they often purchase all that is alloted?

Congrats Lauren. Your people have made the US middle class now no. 2 in terms of wealth. I envy your joy this AM.

The CG does, the CG is Military, hence if someone asks does the Military use HP ammo, YES is the correct answer.

He didn't specify branch, just the generic Military.

LMAO

I did read the entire article. But the article jumps around, a lot.

As far as ammunition orders go, I see no point in arguing it any more than I have. People that have been involved in the qualification and training of even (relatively) small numbers of personnel, know how much ammo is consumed. When I was but a wee-'flave working a range for the first time, I was amazed by the amounts of ammo that were drawn and fired on a daily basis. I don't begrudge people for questioning ammo orders, because I know lots of good men that are initially taken aback when they see the figures. But when broken down shotgun style, even a hard-headed sumbitch can see they are not unrealistic numbers.

Regarding armor vehicles being given out to local LE agencies, that doesn't mean schit either. The wars have ended, .gov is giving schit away. Simple as that. They've been giving schit away when wars end for a long [bleep]' time. And 8 times out of 10, the stuff they give away turns into a bucket of rust or a novelty after about 24 months because everybody figures out what it cost to keep the POS running. Or (more likely) the people that made them aren't making them any more because the war is over.

The most prominent scenario being prepared for these days is the Active Shooter. Seems there's a Charles Whitman every four or five days in the past couple years and it has law enforcement befuddled. Would vehicles like that be useful in an AS scenario? Yes, they would. Up-armor? Absolutely. And the list goes on.




Travis

shyt.........................

just take a gerber tool and clip off the ends of a couple 5.56,s just below the tungsten penetrator cone inside the tip of the rounds jacket
file up the rough edges of the jacket a little bit
do this for your 1st 5 or 6 rounds in the top of your mag
and bingo you got perfectly good dum dum rounds for haji

The sky is falling...

Your liberal buds have been saying so for years, with respect to climate change, co2, methane gas, fracking, farting, etc.

is lauren a chicks name or a dudes name or a combo of both



anyways


-10 (non reinstatable ever) man points for having a username like lauren

Not when you have a WHOLE brick of 22LR!

You silly non-shootin' [bleep].



Travis

fugg, I don't even have a .22

but I have gotten a couple of boxes every now and then for slumlord when I seen em at a decent price

he hoards em like a squirrel does acorns

I usually shoot to do the dirty job that needs doing. That is enough.

Ask your self why. Why in 2013 did the DHS order 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition, and now why are they buying another 25 million.

The DHS, all together, has 162,364 armed agents, they are:

United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (18,000)
U.S. Customs and Border Protection (45,600)
Federal Emergency Management Agency (7,474)
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (20,546)
Transportation Security Administration (58,401)
United States Coast Guard (7,942)
National Protection and Programs Directorate (1)
United States Secret Service (4,400)

But that's 1625000000 rounds. That's 104856 per agent!!!

Why, what are they getting ready for. That is about what was expended for Iraq per year including training. Why would law enforcement need that much ammo?

No, you don't.

Nice try though.



Travis

You just live to stir the turds.

Still stupid I see.

One brick! You're a killah!



Travis

You know what reading posts like this make me realize?

We're gonna lose in 2016.



Travis

So where is that Republican candidate?

Show me how President Obama is a GOOD President, you liberal dope head.

Other branches of the military use "open tip" ammo which is a PC way of saying "hollow point" IMHO.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2544535/posts

condelza rice and sarah palin

give the fuggin purse strings of this nation to a couple of conservative women






I can only wish.........................





16 years of them 2 would set this fuggin country straight










and get it away from people such as yourself...............

I do get real tired of people that suck on the tit and cry about how good/bad it is.

I'll say it again for you.

There should be a cry through out the land so loud that none could help but hear about this.

You don't see me crying. I get real tired of dope smoking, liberal ass pot heads thinking the know what is right.

Did you have to suck your neighbors cock as a kid like your brother did? Maybe that's what did it.

About what exactly?

Between this and the fear of race mixing commercials, it's a lock.

Double "this"..

You don't deserve the right to own a firearm of any sort, nor do you deserve the sacrifice of anyone who comes to your aid in time of need.

I don't even reply to the "Lauren" troll. Not worth the blood pressure spike.

Makes you think that they want us to be scared doesnt it.

I remember buying a surplus M1 Garand for $168.00.
At leg matches everyone was issued two band oliers of 30-06 ball ammo free! Match entry fee was $2.00.

Sure does. The folks out at Bundy's didn't look too scairt though.

Government gets due process civilians get their ass kicked or worse.

Beside this is how many billions of rounds they have kept out of the private sector? They will just keep buying because it isn't like its their money.

50-round drums - when 30-rounders just won't DO...






Hehehehehehee

What is a dirty deed? Dirt Cheap?

Did anyone ever respond to my statement thats a BID?? And that generally the govt doens't buy the total bid but tahts a what if.... we'll take from X to Y amount, but you bid on the higher Y just in case...

I'm not wearing blinders, but having shot over 20,000 rounds of 223 a year practice and competing, I can easily see how each officer SHOULD shoot at least every other week, and at least 100 rounds at that time, and a big course each year of at least 1000 rounds.

Whether they do that or not is something I"m not aware of.

This is all just business as usual. BTW, I have 12ga. Buckshot and Slugs at $5 per round, for now.

Respond, why? that would spoil their kook-konspiracy theories..

Seems common sense has been ruled out in favor of tin foil as its quite evident most haven't a clue of DOD procurement SOP's.

You guys haven't been listening to the radio lately....the issue isn't ammo it is SURVIVAL FOOD they are hoarding. It is that dang FEMA hoarding it all. They MUST know something is up.































OR could it be that guy on the radio is sitting on a pile he is trying to sell?