Looking to get a 2-5 horsepower 4 stroke outboard for a 16' square stern aluminum canoe. Which brands do you guys like? Obviously Honda and Yamaha are good. What about Nissan and Briggs? Anyone tried a Chinese knoci-off? I'd like to go American (Briggs), just not sure about the quality.
I had a Honda four stroke 2 HP for years on a 13' square stern canoe and that damn thing was the bomb. I ran some rough windswept water with that little boat and motor, some with much drama. If I had it to do over again I might consider the weight and go more HP to help with control in rough water. I would be careful to use the 2 HP Honda as the baseline for weight and balance, as I feel much more weight on my little canoe would be a detriment rather than an asset.
How odd I just came across this thread. I have been looking for the same exact motor for my "new to me" 16' fiberglass skanoe. I am leaning towards Honda, but a marine mechanic friend of mine (who works at a Honda Dealership) swears by Suzuki. He says the Hondas are great but the Suzuki takes the cake. I'm scheduled to test drive a Honda 2 H.P. Monday evening. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Nissans are Tohatsus with a different label. They're both good.
For a lot less money without a serious decrease in performance, take a look at electric trolling motors. I used a 34lb Minnkota on a 17 canoe and it zipped right along. A 50lb will plane it. An RV battery will keep it going for many, many hours. If you extend the cable, you can put the battery wherever to balance the weight better. Plus, it's quiet and that counts for a lot.
The Honda 5 hp is 60 lbs and the 2 hp is 30 lbs. Based on your experience, is the 5 hp too heavy> We're talking a 16-17' square stern freighter canoe with two adult men and a few days gear. It'll be loaded pretty good.
Gonna take it across Yellowstone Lake, I think I'd rather have a little too much motor than not enough. Your thoughts please?
Nissans are Tohatsus with a different label. They're both good.
For a lot less money without a serious decrease in performance, take a look at electric trolling motors. I used a 34lb Minnkota on a 17 canoe and it zipped right along. A 50lb will plane it. An RV battery will keep it going for many, many hours. If you extend the cable, you can put the battery wherever to balance the weight better. Plus, it's quiet and that counts for a lot.
That is a thought Rockchuck. I could bring my little Honda generator to re-charge batteries overnight. Gonna be boating across Yellowstone Lake. I' spect I'll need 4-5 hours run time. I haven't really spec'd out the trip yet. People die on Yellowstone lake if your not well prepped and know what you're doing (a big "if" in my case).
How odd I just came across this thread. I have been looking for the same exact motor for my "new to me" 16' fiberglass skanoe. I am leaning towards Honda, but a marine mechanic friend of mine (who works at a Honda Dealership) swears by Suzuki. He says the Hondas are great but the Suzuki takes the cake. I'm scheduled to test drive a Honda 2 H.P. Monday evening. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Thanks Rick. Tell us about your Skanoe. Which brand and model?
The Honda 5 hp is 60 lbs and the 2 hp is 30 lbs. Based on your experience, is the 5 hp too heavy> We're talking a 16-17' square stern freighter canoe with two adult men and a few days gear. It'll be loaded pretty good.
Gonna take it across Yellowstone Lake, I think I'd rather have a little too much motor than not enough. Your thoughts please?
Thanks,
Jordan
You're talking above my technical paygrade, but if the specs work, I would definitely go with the 5 HP Honda. The 2HP just labored against the wind with two people and a small dog in it, but purred right along trolling for fish under normal conditions. I can see the need for more power, but the motor was a peach for starting and running right. Keep in mind my boat was a 13' Old Towne and was very small.
A couple years ago I had a 12' Porta-Bote (folder). I was excited to get a 4-stroke for it (lower noise, less exhaust odor, etc.) and found a mint Merc 8-hp. The little Mercs are made by Tohatsu, same as the Nissan. I tell you what, I wished I had bought an older Mariner 2-stroke. That dang 4-stroke vibrated like crazy and was LOUD. No hole-shot with that tiny boat either, although once on plane and WOT it would scoot with only the pilot.
Did a little digging around the interwebs and found a whole slew of sailboaters who bitched about the same with the little 4-strokes... LOUD, vibration, and no power. A bunch were trying to measure thrust since various brands felt anemic compared to a comparable 2-stroke.
A twin-cylinder 4-stroke is a different beast, but you may want to take a test float with a one-lunger before buying one. I'd consider a 2-stroke, if legal where you are. At least check out some sailboat forums to see if things have gotten any better.
I agree with the 2-stroke vote for power and weight. But, you have to keep in mind that more and more places are going or will be going 4-stroke only. Especially inside of national parks and wildlife refuges. Just a thought.
I like the little air cooled Honda 2.3hp for putting to the beach in the inflatable. Not having to worry about the water pump isn't a bad thing. It definitely doesn't have the umph for rough or fast water. Next step up I'd go Suzuki 4 or 6hp at 55 lb. or Tohatsu 3.5 at 41 lb.
have you looked at a propane powered kicker? A buddy has one, and it's a Lehr 2.5 HP model. Runs forever on one of those one pound green cylinders. http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|215570|1794283|1964825&id=2417499
have you looked at a propane powered kicker? A buddy has one, and it's a Lehr 2.5 HP model. Runs forever on one of those one pound green cylinders. Sam's link made clickable
Thanks for posting that, Sam!
I am sending that link to a buddy right now.
I didn't know there were small propane-powered outboards, but 37 lbs is not too bad.
Also, it would be nice to not have to seek out ethanol-free gas to avoid the problems it causes with small engines stored for months at a time...
That is pretty much the kind of boat my friend is planning on, so I forwarded that to him too.
He does some fishing in parks -- and as noted above, many parks have banned 2-strokes. More are likely to follow in the coming years), so he thinks a 4-stroke is a better long-term investment.
I have a 2.5 Suzuki, new last year for about 750 that I use on a square back old town. The motor weighs under 40 pounds, but I'd have to say, it won't meet your needs unless you have time. It works well for me, pushing me along at about 6mph on 1/2 throttle, but at full throttle, it doesn't seem to move the boat any faster. Perhaps it's the hull design that limits its efficiency.
They make a 3hp at about 41 pounds that may be better.
You can see I have extendable outriggers as well. They can go out 3 feet on either side, but I keep em tucked up on the hull and have more than enough stability to stand and cast. Theres a home made trolling motor bracket there as well.
I searched for cheap outboards and found a site that had great prices on Suzis and Nissans. That's who I bought from. Shipped right to my door! Gassed her hp, put her in a tank and fired her right up. Did most of my initial 10 hour break in right there. She sips gas!
How odd I just came across this thread. I have been looking for the same exact motor for my "new to me" 16' fiberglass skanoe. I am leaning towards Honda, but a marine mechanic friend of mine (who works at a Honda Dealership) swears by Suzuki. He says the Hondas are great but the Suzuki takes the cake. I'm scheduled to test drive a Honda 2 H.P. Monday evening. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Thanks Rick. Tell us about your Skanoe. Which brand and model?
Thanks,
Jordan
The skanoe is a Pelican Bayou 160. I think I have narrowed it down (?) to 3 or 4 options. Ha!
1) '07 Honda 4 stroke 2 H.P. @ $550 2) '04 Yamaha 4 stroke 4 H.P. @ $775 3) a new Minn-Kota saltwater 18" shaft w/ a couple deep cycle marine batteries @ ? 4) keep looking for a Suzuki
90% will be inshore saltwater fishing. However we are planning a fishing, hunting and camping adventure this fall in the Mobile Delta, which will require a substantial amount of gear.
Good thread and interesting since I just bought a used 06 Suzuki 2.5 horse 4 stroke. I was not sure it was worth 525 bucks. I took it out and it was very quiet in idle, a bit loud and rough wide open. I was however totally impressed with the fact it pushed a 1432 jon boat with me in it , I'm 150 lbs . It planed @ 8 mph and planed well at 10.5 mph wide open. I couldn't believe 2.5 horse would put me on plane but did very easily. With me , my BIL and grand kid ( 450 lbs) it still went 5.5 mph wide open. I still would prefer a 2 stroke though but are getting hard to come by.
I have a 2.5 Suzuki, new last year for about 750 that I use on a square back old town. The motor weighs under 40 pounds, but I'd have to say, it won't meet your needs unless you have time. It works well for me, pushing me along at about 6mph on 1/2 throttle, but at full throttle, it doesn't seem to move the boat any faster. Perhaps it's the hull design that limits its efficiency.
More likely it's the pitch of the prop. If it's revving but not going any faster, likely a higher pitch will move it out better.
I purchased a new Nissan 7.5 hp 4 stroke as a kicker motor for my jet boat. I hated it, the vibration was awful and it didnt seem to have much power. It was a single cylinder.
Ended up selling the boat and the buyer wanted the kicker and offered a short shaft Honda 7.5 hp, 1979 vintage twin cylinder for trade. I took the deal and absolutely love the little Honda. So smooth and quiet you can hardly hear it run, a tank of gas last weeks. They key is the two cylinders, they counter balance each other.
I would think on a large freighter style canoe it would be just the ticket?
I have a 2.5 Suzuki, new last year for about 750 that I use on a square back old town. The motor weighs under 40 pounds, but I'd have to say, it won't meet your needs unless you have time. It works well for me, pushing me along at about 6mph on 1/2 throttle, but at full throttle, it doesn't seem to move the boat any faster. Perhaps it's the hull design that limits its efficiency.
Its likely that the 2.5 can't plane the canoe so it operating as a displacement hull. If memory serves the Hull speed for a 16" is something like 5 Knots. You can drive a displacement hull faster than hull speed but it requires exponetallly more power to do so.
My guess is that your 6mph is hull speed for your rig, applying more power gains little until you can get it to plane.
Well that throws a wrench in the works. Sale ends today...
Bama...don't look at that. It will be the same next week...but with different dates. They always have short sales...but the prices never change. It's a gimmick. DOn't worry. A month from now the price will be the same. Just watch.
Still, it gets delivered to your door, oiled up and ready for gas. I was extremely happy with the process.
[/quote]Its likely that the 2.5 can't plane the canoe so it operating as a displacement hull. If memory serves the Hull speed for a 16" is something like 5 Knots. You can drive a displacement hull faster than hull speed but it requires exponetallly more power to do so.
My guess is that your 6mph is hull speed for your rig, applying more power gains little until you can get it to plane. [/quote]
That's what I was thinking. The prop pitch idea may be valid as well, but I'm thinking the drive train might be effected by increasing the push.
The Canoe hull isn't like a jon boat. It pushes water to the sides. I have the trolling motor battery up front so the front stays pretty low. I may try moving it closer to the middle.
I have a 2.5 yamaha 4str on a 13' Gheenoe it will run about 8mph -kind of a wallowing plane. That's with me -big cooler -anchor -rods etc. etc. . Rob take a look on youtube you can see and hear how many of these little motors perform on different small boats. I could be wrong but I think the honda exhaust is above water = loud. My little yamaha runs smooth , sips gas and idle along at low quiet speeds -I don't think 2 cycles do that too well. The 2.5hp yamaha weigts 37lbs -34lbs for the suzuki. Those two would be the only two I'd buy .
Look up a website -"motoman" engine break in- I think it is -don't break the motor in like they tell you at the dealer !
Very often even though a boat is bigger and longer -it will run better than a shorter boat -a 15'4' Gheenoe will clock faster speeds than my 13 so I think a 2.5hp would do a good job for you.The prop set up is very important -if your boat doesn't perform right get another prop -having two is a good thing anyway.
I also have a yamaha 6hp 4str for my Gheenoe it will run 15+mph and get 25-30 mpg . Steer clear of the Briggs...
I weight 200lbs and can sit on the gunnel of the 13'r -lift my feet out of the water -boat will not even take on water. I'm taking the boat on a 10 day swamp hunting /fishing/trapping adventure this winter here in FL.. Good luck..
Thanks for the heads-up. There is a Suzuki dealership 5 mi. from me also (closed today). Maybe they can match that price. I was sure looking at used motors, but for a couple hundred bucks more, new w/ 3 yr. warranty is looking better all the time!
Here's the little honda 2hp on a Nu Canoe -I'm thinking pretty strong on getting one. Boxer posted his -they are cool .
Thanks for posting that!
On the same page there is a video of this same Nu Canoe with the propane outboard Mannlicher mentioned above. Here it is below in case anybody wants to compare the same "canoe" with these two outboards.
That Nu-Canoe looks very good. Looks very user friendly and comfortable, 'specially for fishing. Wish they made one a little longer. Been looking at fishing kayaks too. Thanks.
I have a 2.5 Suzuki, new last year for about 750 that I use on a square back old town. The motor weighs under 40 pounds, but I'd have to say, it won't meet your needs unless you have time...
That's a great looking rig.
Factory says 29 lbs. That is a comfortable weight to man-handle, sometimes at arm's-length, where 40+ can be a struggle for this 70-year old man.
That motor sure beats paddling. On the other hand, it would be fun to kick the speed up a noticeable notch. That is why I recommend a 2-stroke, more hp/lb. Though this .gov prohibition might be an important consideration, depending on where you wish to operate.
I've been "researching" this for almost a year. I love to go fishing, and have several friends with nice boats, but most of them are more interested in BSing and drinking beer then fishing. So I decided a small (10-12 ft) "car topper" with a small motor was the way to go. I have no place to store a trailer, and want something I can carry in my 4X4 truck to the small Mt. lakes with no boat launch.
I have been on Craigs List almost every day since last fall.
There are lots of small 2-strokes from the 40s, 50s and 60s but almost nothing newer. When a "newer" motor from the 70s or 80s comes up, they want almost the price of a new motor. Besides that, the future (here in California) is not 2 stroke friendly.
I think I'm going to sell some guns that I havn't shot 30 years, and just buy a new 10 ft Flatbottom and a 3.5 HP 4 stroke.
I've been "researching" this for almost a year. I love to go fishing, and have several friends with nice boats, but most of them are more interested in BSing and drinking beer then fishing. So I decided a small (10-12 ft) "car topper" with a small motor was the way to go. I have no place to store a trailer, and want something I can carry in my 4X4 truck to the small Mt. lakes with no boat launch.
I have been on Craigs List almost every day since last fall.
There are lots of small 2-strokes from the 40s, 50s and 60s but almost nothing newer. When a "newer" motor from the 70s or 80s comes up, they want almost the price of a new motor. Besides that, the future (here in California) is not 2 stroke friendly.
I think I'm going to sell some guns that I havn't shot 30 years, and just buy a new 10 ft Flatbottom and a 3.5 HP 4 stroke.
If you're short on storage space, take a hard look at a Porta-bote. They come in 8,10,12,& 14' lengths. I have a 14 with a 10hp engine. They're not as easy to set up as the ads say but they're not bad after you've done it a few times. I leave mine set up most of the time and haul it on a little Harbor Freight trailer. They're a little different until you get used to them but they're very stable and safe. They will plane with a very small engine, too, as they only ship 4" of water.
I have a 2.5 Suzuki, new last year for about 750 that I use on a square back old town. The motor weighs under 40 pounds, but I'd have to say, it won't meet your needs unless you have time. It works well for me, pushing me along at about 6mph on 1/2 throttle, but at full throttle, it doesn't seem to move the boat any faster. Perhaps it's the hull design that limits its efficiency.
It is the hull. A canoe is not designed to plane out like a jon boat. I'd also like to comment that your rig is utter perfection for skinny Piedmont rivers above the fall line. That Old Town hull is super tough and much more resistant to rocks than cheaper hulls, is still light enough to get out and drag if needed. A kicker any heavier than a 5hp or a boat any heavier than something like that Old Town squareback prevents you from being able to launch from the bank and requires a ramp. Food for thought.
The next step up is a 15'4" Gheenoe with a 10hp kicker but then you are wedded to a trailer and a launching ramp. Gheenoes don't do rocks very well either.
do power to weight ratio... running rpms ...gear box or not? fuel tank size ......then off u go ! "A canoe is not designed to plane" ...truer words were never spoken.
2 stroke will be lighter. I have had a 15 HP merc that has never failed me. It sat for 7 years In a barn and when I got it out to use it again, fresh gas an it started 3 rd pull
I've got an Briggs 5hp on my 12' Smoker Craft alum boat and an electric motor. I use it on shallow type lakes for bass, crappie, and pike fishing. I really like the electric motor for small lakes far better than any combustion motor. It's so handy and plainly awesome for getting in near the shore or running after ducks in ponds.
As per the 5hp Briggs, motor, it works and is quite slow. It vibrates really bad and is really an low end boat motor. So with my setup it works just fine and economically for me on shallow type lakes and that's where I keep it.
In bigger deeper water I'd really look at Suzuki, Yamaha, or Honda. The Briggs just doesn't have the power and IMO the reliability to be in an place where you depend on your motor, and that's why keep the electric with me and an big battery.
Truck-topping ANY fishing craft is a schidt-storm. Being able to load the boat, even a canoe, the night before, all rods/tackle/cooler secured, and just drive off is priceless. I even have an UL aluminum trailer for my canoe. One of my take-out spots enables me to walk the trailer down a steep hill to load my canoe, without unloading the contents, and haul it by hand back up a road too rough to drive down to the parking area.
The Honda 2.3 hp is looking pretty sweet. They want a princely sum for it, but its the lightest. I think I am sold on the NuCanoe 12' frontier. Think I'm gonna order tomorrow.
In high school I had a 17ft aluminum canoe and a 5hp Briggs and Stratton (???) two stroke on a stern-mounted sideboard. That thing planed and hauled a$$, way beyond the design intent of the canoe, but luckily we was immortal back then. We would charge the wakes of the big boats on the Lower Hudson, if you were in front you'd go airborn
Here's my present 13 footer with a Honda 2hp......
The most it will do with two people aboard is maybe 6 or 7mph, above efficient hull speed but not enough to plane.
Same canoe, MinnKota 40lb thrust marine motor....
At full throttle with a fresh battery you're talking 4mph, maybe 4.5 Just about efficient hull speed.
'Nother problem I have with trolling motors is, with a gas motor I can look at how much gas I have in the boat and know pretty much how far I can go. With a trolling motor you are never certain. OTOH it sure is cool to cruise along the shoreline dead silent.
I wouldn't dream of crossing a body of water as famously treacherous as Yellowstone Lake with a trolling motor.
Thanks for that info. Very helpful. Can't find a negative review on the little Honda anywhere. The boat I am liking is a 12' kayak/canoe hybrid (called NuCanoe). And you're right: crossing Yellerstone on my set up (if I purchase) is foolhardy. I'll have to hug the shoreline. I'd do it on a 17' aluminum freighter with a 5hp motor, but not a little set up like I am thinking of buying.
I passed on test driving the used 2 H.P. Honda last night. He said he couldn't budge from $550. I'm going with the new Suzuki 2.5 horse. Just a matter of where I'm going to buy it at this point.
I passed on test driving the used 2 H.P. Honda last night. He said he couldn't budge from $550. I'm going with the new Suzuki 2.5 horse. Just a matter of where I'm going to buy it at this point.
You should've bought it. Considering where you live though, a 15'4" Gheenoe with an 8hp would be a better skinny water boat.
I passed on test driving the used 2 H.P. Honda last night. He said he couldn't budge from $550. I'm going with the new Suzuki 2.5 horse. Just a matter of where I'm going to buy it at this point.
You should've bought it. Considering where you live though, a 15'4" Gheenoe with an 8hp would be a better skinny water boat.
The Honda is 7 yrs. old @ $550. The new Suzuki is $709 out the door with a 3 yr. warranty. My skanoe, gheenoe, whatever the hell it's called, was given to me as a bonus on a job that I brought in under budget. It is only rated for up to 5 h.p.
I went to my local Honda / Yamaha / Suzuki dealership yesterday. I told the salesman I was interested in the 2.5 Suzuki. He said they didn't stock that motor since they have the 2.3 Honda @ $1074 + tax, which in his words, "runs circles around the Suzuki". He said by the time they special ordered from Suzuki, it would be about the same price as the Honda.
Here's the kicker (pun?): As I was leaving, the salesman said, and I quote, "I can't really blame you for wanting the Suzuki, I have one on my boat. But you really should buy this Honda"!
I think I'm gonna buy a 12' Frontier NuCanoe here in the next day or two. If I were a man of means (like some of you guys ) I'd spring for one of these and a 520watt-hour battery with solar charger. 'Bout $3400.00 out the door, but would be awesome for a Kayak or small canoe.
Dilemma settled. I ordered the 2.5 Suzuki this morning.
I smell blackened speckled trout in my near future!
Rick may I ask ball park price on what you're paying? Did you order on line or local?
Thanks,
Jordan
I ordered it from Cumberland Watersports in Dickson, TN (newoutboards.com). I called to verify it is a 2014 with full Suzuki 3 yr. warranty. The salesman said their shipment had only been in house for 3 weeks. $709 shipped to my door. I just checked the tracking number and it looks like it will be here this evening!
Rick, just remember, a canoe doesn't plane like a jon boat, so you aren't going to waterski behind this motor. Like I said previously, she performs on my square stern at half throttle, just about as well as she performs at full throttle and she'll be quieter and a lot better on gas. You have to be satisfied with 6 to 10 mph and not expect to beat the thunderstorm off the lake if you leave too late.
I have a 5hp Briggs on the back of my 1232 Tracker. Like others have posted, it vibrates and is LOUD but I use it solely on a shallow river to duck hunt. No water pump to worry about is nice. Sitting on a Harbor Fright trailer, suits my needs perfectly
Rick, just remember, a canoe doesn't plane like a jon boat, so you aren't going to waterski behind this motor. You have to be satisfied with 6 to 10 mph and not expect to beat the thunderstorm off the lake if you leave too late.
I quit water-skiing 15 years ago when I broke a couple ribs. Low speed is no problem as long as it will keep me from paddling 800# of oysters! I'll mainly be fishing bays and bayous. I'll venture out on the "big pond" when the weather is right.
I think I'm gonna buy a 12' Frontier NuCanoe here in the next day or two. If I were a man of means (like some of you guys ) I'd spring for one of these and a 520watt-hour battery with solar charger. 'Bout $3400.00 out the door, but would be awesome for a Kayak or small canoe.
I would wait on that Nu-Canoe. There are better boats in that size and price range.
I don't know what the fuss is about the Tohatsu motors. I have a 3.5 hp one on my 1500 lb 20' sailboat, and it pushes it around at hull speed just fine at about half-throttle. It isn't as smooth and quiet as a Honda, but it isn't obnoxious either. It starts right up and idles indefinitely (near as I can tell) without any problems. The biggest problem yo might have with one on a canoe is that you spin the motor around to reverse it - but I don't know that the others that size are any different.
If I were you, I would go with an electric trolling motor, but you don't have to use an RV battery. You can get the smaller deep-cycle battery made for electric wheelchairs, and it won't be near as heavy or bulky (or costly). Buy two and you can have a spare and spread the weight out.
Spend more money on the boat, and you can find a usable electric troller on craigslist for cheap. Get something with a more efficient hull than that Nu-Canoe. And lighter - so it will be easy to car-top. Shop used for the boat, and get more for your money. Maybe something like this...
I've mentioned it before, but... For you guys who want a small, light, easy to handle boat that will give good performance with a small motor, you can't do much better than a Porta-bote. They come in 8,10,12, and 14' models. In the smaller sizes, there are quite a few used ones to be found on Craigslist or Ebay. You can fold it up to car top, keep it set up to haul in the back of a pickup, or get a small trailer to haul it. I have the 14' model. I keep it set up most of the time and have a cheap Harbor Frt trailer that I haul it on. I also just built a rack on my pickup to car top it set up when I pull my camp trailer. The 14' weighs all of 105lb. The smaller ones are much lighter.
It only ships 4" of water and it will really fly with a minimal motor.
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) I'd spring for one of these and a 520watt-hour battery with solar charger. 'Bout $3400.00 out the door, but would be awesome for a Kayak or small canoe.![[Linked Image]](http://s270.photobucket.com/user/seminole39/media/a9ddb84f.jpg.html)