http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-calif-man-80-fatally-shot-pregnant-home-intruder/Cops: Calif. man, 80, fatally shot pregnant home intruderLONG BEACH, Calif. - Police said a California man fatally shot a woman who he claimed was ransacking his home, reports CBS Los Angeles.
Authorities are investigating whether 80-year-old Tom Greer, of Long Beach, Calif., shot the unidentified woman in self-defense, according to the station.
On Tuesday night, officers responded to a call of shots fired at the home. Greer told police he walked in on a man and a woman going through his things. He said the couple tackled him but that he was able to get his gun and turn it on the woman, CBS Los Angeles reports.
"She says, 'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant! I'm going to have a baby!'" Greer told KNBC Wednesday. "And I shot her anyway." He said the couple had been to his home twice before and that he shot the woman twice in the back while the male accomplice ran away.
Investigators would not say whether the shooting occurred inside the home or in the alley behind the house. According to the station, Greer is not under arrest and police are still determining whether or not the homeowner will face charges.
"We're looking into the possibility of someone else being involved, but we don't know just yet," Deputy Chief David Hendricks told the Long Beach Post. "We're just sorting out what happened."
Neighbor George Romero told CBS Los Angeles Greer is a nice man who has been burglarized several times in the past. "I remember the first break-in. They literally tore down the front door," he said. "And that's where I came in and met him. I said, 'Hey, what's going on? You okay?' And ever since then, we've been acquaintances."
VideoClick the link for news video, and interview with 80 year old shooter.....
http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.1931419
My first reaction is this: No way would I shoot someone who is leaving and who had not harmed me. Even if they were carrying some of my material possession. Nothing I own is worth the life of ANY human being including the worst drug addict or serial robber. They all still have an opportunity to accept Christ as thier savior, be forgiven and be healed and restored in every way.
HOWEVER, the man said he had been jumped and there was a fight. When the Adrenaline and other self defense mechanism's we are born with kick in, there is NO TELLING what I, or anyone else, might do in such a moment. Thusly, while I would hope that I would do better and not shoot, I am not going to pass judgement on this man at this time with the info that I have.
Whether I personally agree with it, or not, from what he said in the video, it appears that the shooting was unjustifiable legally. I think his age may be the only thing that might keep him from getting charged with something.
Lets see...
Things not to do when you are pregnant.
Amusement park rides
Smoking
Drinking
Boxing
Martial arts
Free climbing devils tower
Robbery
Methinks people shouldn't be breaking into other people's houses and jumping them and stealing sheit.
Pretty simple really.
She says, 'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant! I'm going to have a baby!'" Greer told KNBC Wednesday. "And I shot her anyway." He said the couple had been to his home twice before and that he shot the woman twice in the back while the male accomplice ran away.
guy is in trouble. should have kept his trap shut. shooting her in the back as she is leaving is wrong.
How is shooting ANYONE that breaks into your house and attacks you unjustifiable? I don't care which way they were facing when the bullet struck.
Hell, he's old and reflexes are slow. She was likely facing him when he decided to shoot, not that it matters.
If he is in trouble it's because he is too stupid to keep his mouth shut. At his age he probably thought the cops were on his side. If he said anything it should have been "I thought they were getting a weapon."
"She says, 'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant! I'm going to have a baby!'" "And I shot her anyway."
Definitely bumper sticker material.
There's a valid argument to be made that a burglar present inside your home constitutes, per se, an imminent threat to life and limb, thus justifying lethal force. Some states even incorporate that into law, but I don't think California does.
He shot her in the alley outside the house as they were running away.
"She says, 'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant! I'm going to have a baby!'" Greer told KNBC Wednesday. "And I shot her anyway."
First "S": pass
Second "S: does not apply
Third "S": fail
He shot her in the alley outside the house as they were running away.
Not good.
Whether I personally agree with it, or not, from what he said in the video, it appears that the shooting was unjustifiable legally. I think his age may be the only thing that might keep him from getting charged with something.
Most likely. He looks about ready for a nursing home, maybe this way we will get to pay for his nursing care.
I wonder how good of nursing care life with no parole prisoners get when they become old enough to need such? Anyone here know?
He shot her in the alley outside the house as they were running away.
He should have kept his mouth shut other than to assert he was attacked in his home by intruders and fired to neutralize the threat.
In CA, once the threat is removed - such as the criminal fleeing - you are not allowed to use deadly force. Shooting in the back is not justified. (Per my CCW training and review of CA laws/cases. Not an attorney, but it pays to be aware of the laws if you are going to or contemplate using a weapon.) Like others have said - keep your mouth shut and wait to talk to your lawyer.
A criminal in your house does constitute a justifiable shooting, but not when they are fleeing or when they have left your home.
What does worry me for the old guy is he shot her in the back, she was pregnant, and his somewhat callous comment, "I shot her anyway." That last botherss me quite a bit and as it's in the public domain via that TV interview? That ain't gonna help his case one bit. But that's the law. My take you're in my house taking my stuff, you're also taking your chances. Not quite 80 yet, only 4 years to go. Frankly,I wouldn't want to be in his boots. I'm thinking he's in deep kim-chi.
Paul B.
Methinks people shouldn't be breaking into other people's houses and jumping them and stealing sheit.
Pretty simple really.
As much as I agree with this, I'm not sure he'd
NOT be charged with something even in states like Florida & Texas. They were in flight mode & outside his residence...I seen mentioned somewhere that he'd had them in his house twice before, so he knew who they were & if he hadn't gotten to his gun, they would have likely killed him...too bad for the old guy & too bad he didn't get both of them.
Yep, but it's a damn shame that victims of crime are the ones that should have to keep their mouths shut.
In CA, once the threat is removed - such as the criminal fleeing - you are not allowed to use deadly force. Shooting in the back is not justified. (Per my CCW training and review of CA laws/cases. Not an attorney, but it pays to be aware of the laws if you are going to or contemplate using a weapon.) Like others have said - keep your mouth shut and wait to talk to your lawyer.
A criminal in your house does constitute a justifiable shooting, but not when they are fleeing or when they have left your home.
Which is [bleep].
say goodbye to gramps. he's going away for awhile.
He didn't shoot her in the back...
" Officer, I shot some flat chested women with crazy facial hair"
The guys is 80. He just might not give a [bleep].
That, by the way, is something robbers might want to take into account when they assault, rob, and threaten "old" people.....
one of those situations where it does not end well for anyone. Sad. From the info on the news source, the guy probably should not have shot the gal, but then, the gal should not have been ransacking his home. Sigh.
What does worry me for the old guy is he shot her in the back, she was pregnant, and his somewhat callous comment, "I shot her anyway." That last botherss me quite a bit and as it's in the public domain via that TV interview? That ain't gonna help his case one bit. But that's the law. My take you're in my house taking my stuff, you're also taking your chances. Not quite 80 yet, only 4 years to go. Frankly,I wouldn't want to be in his boots. I'm thinking he's in deep kim-chi.
Paul B.
arizona does have the castle doctrine, which also extends to vehicles. But once the threat of death or imminent bodily harm is removed, you have no legal standing to shoot somebody in the back.
Okay.. gonna state that I know this guy. Not really well, but spent time with him. Pretty sure I even know the house.
I'm definitely surprised by this, but at the same time... not so much. He's wound pretty tight, and he's very proud and possessive of what he has. Don't know his background from when he was growing up, but I know he doesn't come from a wealthy background and was a workaholic and fixated on accumulating assets.
At the same time, he's a guy that would go to fairly great length to help out friends and family.
Guilty!
99 years in prison with 99 years suspended.
The only thing he should have said to the police was, "lawyer".
They've got the accomplice under arrest. The accomplice may be charged with murder since a death occurred during the commission of a felony. DA is reviewing it.
http://www.presstelegram.com/genera...eath-of-accomplice-in-long-beach-robbery![[Linked Image]](http://www.presstelegram.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/storyimage/LB/20140725/NEWS/140728855/AR/0/AR-140728855.jpg)
The District Attorney�s office this morning would not comment on whether they will file charges against a man arrested on suspicion of murder for the death of a woman shot by an 80-year-old homeowner who says the two broke into his Los Cerritos home.
Homeowner Tom Greer told NBC4 Wednesday night that he shot Andrea Miller twice in the back as she was fleeing with a male accomplice, even though she told him she was pregnant.
�She says, �Don�t shoot me, I�m pregnant -- I�m going to have a baby.� And I shot her anyway,� Greer said. �The lady didn�t run as fast as the man so I shot her in the back twice, she�s dead ... but he got away.�
Long Beach Chief Jim McDonnell, who is the leading candidate to be elected Los Angeles County sheriff, told reporters at an afternoon news conference Thursday that there was no immediate confirmation of the pregnancy but that the coroner�s office planned to perform an autopsy on the Long Beach woman.
Miller�s suspected accomplice, Gus Adams, was arrested by detectives Wednesday and booked on suspicion of murder -- that of his accomplice -- and residential robbery. He is being held at Los Angeles County Jail in lieu of $1.0255 million bail, authorities said.
A spokeswoman for the D.A.�s office said they had not received the case from police and would not comment.
According to McDonnell, Greer told investigators he arrived at his home in the 3900 block of Country Club Drive in Bixby Knolls Tuesday night, parked his car, went inside and was immediately assaulted by a man and a woman who were in the process of burglarizing his house.
�When I went in there, they tackled me,� Greer told NBC4. �Both of them jumped up on top of me.�
Greer was hit a number of times by the pair and thrown to the floor, McDonnell said. Miller allegedly continued to beat him while Adams, 26, of Long Beach, tried to break into Greer�s safe. The 28-year-old Miller eventually stopped hitting Greer and joined Adams in trying to break into the safe.
Meanwhile, Greer managed to go to another room and retrieve a gun. He then confronted the robbers while they were still inside the home and opened fire but did not hit anyone. Miller and Adams then grabbed some items and fled the home, McDonnell said.
Greer followed the pair outside and fired at them again. Miller was hit by the gunfire, fell in the alley and died there, but Adams managed to escape.
McDonnell said Greer suffered a broken collarbone and cuts and bruises to various parts of his body. The statements he made to NBC4 were also being reviewed as part of the investigation.
Greer told detectives that he was the victim of two reported and one unreported prior burglaries to his home, where cash and other personal property was taken. Greer also said he believed Miller and Adams were responsible for the earlier robberies and might return in the future.
Greer told NBC4 he regards what he did as self-defense, even though Miller was running away.
According to the article I read this morning, there's still some question as to whether she was pregnant or not. If she was, he just saved the taxpayers twice....now, and 18 years down the road.
Yep. A twofer with a 22 no less. I bet that hurt.
According to an article I read, they beat the crap out of the old dude as well. Body slammed him, broke his collar bone, etc... The woman continued to beat on him as the male ransacked the home. The victim got to his gun, which is when they decided to flee. The rest you know.
According to an article I read, they beat the crap out of the old dude as well. Body slammed him, broke his collar bone, etc... The woman continued to beat on him as the male ransacked the home. The victim got to his gun, which is when they decided to flee. The rest you know.
No sympathy for the deceased. I hope they stick her accomplice with the murder charge under the
felony murder rule.
The only reason I wouldn't shoot at someone after they did that to me was because of the law. Morally they had it coming. If I were 80, I might just not care anymore.
The LB police chief mentioned is running for LA County Sheriff, and is anti- CCW. No surprise there. One of those who thinks only cops should have guns...
A good lawyer ought to be able to get at least a hung jury out of that.
Temporary insanity? Continued fear for his life?
Give an 80 yo man a good beating up and you should expect that he can not make rational decisions for a while and he might still be overcome by a dread fear for his life that he should have recognized had passed but for the mental confusion they caused by beating him up.
The victim has to be in reasonable fear of his life in order to justify the use of lethal force...
I'd say getting beaten to death during a robbery would easily qualify on that count.
He shot at the perps to stop the beating...the flying bullets were the only factor that stopped the attack.
In a situation like this one you don't want to hesitate, that next doubt in your mind might be your last one.
He showed far too much restraint in my eyes...I would have emptied the pistol.
His commentary on the cops, and how that's "not America," is spot on.
A good lawyer ought to be able to get at least a hung jury out of that.
Temporary insanity? Continued fear for his life?
Give an 80 yo man a good beating up and you should expect that he can not make rational decisions for a while and he might still be overcome by a dread fear for his life that he should have recognized had passed but for the mental confusion they caused by beating him up.
Yep.
The only thing he should have said to the police was, "lawyer".
^This.
Reminds me of a saying. Never pick a fight with an old guy. He is tired and will just kill you or something to that affect.
Two resons I think California won't prosecute him. One, he's probaby going to be dead of natural causes before the trial, not to mention any appeals. Two, the state doesn't want the extra healthcare expense that incarcerating the old codger requires.
If he'd shot them on ingress or actually during the struggle this would be so much easier. If it turns out he put a couple bullets into the girl's back while they fled outside it gets a lot more complicated. (even if we all agreed the world is better off)
They've got the accomplice under arrest. The accomplice may be charged with murder since a death occurred during the commission of a felony. DA is reviewing it.
That would be one worth while outcome of this whole sad mess.
These are the type cases that are chosen as the MSM hype stories.
They are chosen because they ARE controversial, and may have multiple choice answers.
Much like the Zimmerman case and the guy that shot the two burglars in his home, the cases are hard to judge and THAT is why the MSM focuses self defense issues and gun control issues on cases like this.
They don't publicize or promote the case of the young blonde mother that shot 3 retarded, black hoodrats as they were setting fire to her home after killing her husband.... No controversy in a story like that, and it doesn't head down the liberal road they want you to take, emotionally.
This story is about "Pregnant Mother Killed by Evil Gun Owner!" Period.
one less Obama supporter.....
These are the type cases that are chosen as the MSM hype stories.
They are chosen because they ARE controversial, and may have multiple choice answers.
Much like the Zimmerman case and the guy that shot the two burglars in his home, the cases are hard to judge and THAT is why the MSM focuses self defense issues and gun control issues on cases like this.
They don't publicize or promote the case of the young blonde mother that shot 3 retarded, black hoodrats as they were setting fire to her home after killing her husband.... No controversy in a story like that, and it doesn't head down the liberal road they want you to take, emotionally.
This story is about "Pregnant Mother Killed by Evil Gun Owner!" Period.
Good point! and evil with a capital E.
I think the US would be a better place if 80 year olds took out more bad guys.
Coroner just announced that the dead lady was NOT pregnant.
Might calm the hysteria, but still expect him to be charged.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Intruder-Shot-by-Homeowner-Not-Pregnant-268655212.html
He fired at them inside the house and missed, then followed them outside and fired again while they fled. He lives in California. The only good thing about this situation is that he is 80, so he won't be able to do a lot of time.
Feel for the old boy, but at 80 years of age, go ahead give me life.
stupid [bleep], thieves ought to be shot, so should politicians that pass laws that say you can't shoot a thief
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-calif-man-80-fatally-shot-pregnant-home-intruder/Cops: Calif. man, 80, fatally shot pregnant home intruderLONG BEACH, Calif. - Police said a California man fatally shot a woman who he claimed was ransacking his home, reports CBS Los Angeles.
Authorities are investigating whether 80-year-old Tom Greer, of Long Beach, Calif., shot the unidentified woman in self-defense, according to the station.
On Tuesday night, officers responded to a call of shots fired at the home. Greer told police he walked in on a man and a woman going through his things. He said the couple tackled him but that he was able to get his gun and turn it on the woman, CBS Los Angeles reports.
"She says, 'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant! I'm going to have a baby!'" Greer told KNBC Wednesday. "And I shot her anyway." He said the couple had been to his home twice before and that he shot the woman twice in the back while the male accomplice ran away.
Investigators would not say whether the shooting occurred inside the home or in the alley behind the house. According to the station, Greer is not under arrest and police are still determining whether or not the homeowner will face charges.
"We're looking into the possibility of someone else being involved, but we don't know just yet," Deputy Chief David Hendricks told the Long Beach Post. "We're just sorting out what happened."
Neighbor George Romero told CBS Los Angeles Greer is a nice man who has been burglarized several times in the past. "I remember the first break-in. They literally tore down the front door," he said. "And that's where I came in and met him. I said, 'Hey, what's going on? You okay?' And ever since then, we've been acquaintances."
VideoClick the link for news video, and interview with 80 year old shooter.....
http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.1931419 The old man is smart , now he doesn't have to pay child support
The victim has to be in reasonable fear of his life in order to justify the use of lethal force...
I'd say getting beaten to death during a robbery would easily qualify on that count.
He shot at the perps to stop the beating...the flying bullets were the only factor that stopped the attack.
In a situation like this one you don't want to hesitate, that next doubt in your mind might be your last one.
He showed far too much restraint in my eyes...I would have emptied the pistol.
Yes, but then the beating stopped and they fled - he followed them outside and shot her in the back as she was running away. The fact that he was beaten and is 80 may help his case, but if I did that, I'd be charged.
I found this interesting too....
"The mother of a man charged with murder stemming from the fatal shooting of his alleged accomplice by a homeowner during a Long Beach robbery has been arrested on suspicion of robbery in connection with the case.
Ruby Adams, 49, of Long Beach, was booked into jail on Thursday night, police said Friday. She is the mother of Gus Polly Adams, a suspect in a Tuesday night robbery that ended with his accomplice getting shot by the homeowner."
I am so sick of every newspaper article leading with the pregnancy angle in an attempt to blame the victim rather than the idiot criminal who put herself in that situation in the first place. Hopefully now that it's shown she was just lying (who'd have thought?) the public scrutiny will die off and the DA will be able to let this one slide.
she was not only a Thief, but a liar also. Good ridden to both of them , to bad he didn't kill them both
I'm sort of on the fence...leaning towards the old dumb fart.
I think he should have asked her to piss on an EPT strip before he shot..
NOT!
If there is the slightest chance that someone suffers from dementia, you would be wise to let them be..
and yet even today, every story about this incident leads with the 'pregnant' angle, and most never mention that autopsy shows NO pregnancy.
For those that say the media has no anti gun agenda, well...........
I guess it matters not but getting the MSM to report that the deceased was not in fact pregnant was akin to pulling teeth.
I guess it matters not but getting the MSM to report that the deceased was not in fact pregnant was akin to pulling teeth.
That would cancel out their spin on the story to further their agenda.
MSM doesn't let pesky facts get in the way of an emotional knee jerk...
Great, now every gang banger in Cali will be screaming "Don't shoot, I'm pregnant!!"
You choose to be a thief, you choose to take the consequences. Old fellow was robbed twice, beaten, and the guy's 80-damn-years-old for crissakes. So one lying sack of chit was killed (finally) in the process this time. Would charge the other thug for the murder before fretting over how/what/when/where the homeowner shot the first thug. Where the hell are our priorities?
You choose to be a thief, you choose to take the consequences. Old fellow was robbed twice, beaten, and the guy's 80-damn-years-old for crissakes. So one lying sack of chit was killed (finally) in the process this time. Would charge the other thug for the murder before fretting over how/what/when/where the homeowner shot the first thug. Where the hell are our priorities?
I am with you but sadly you and I are not the ones who get to make the decisions. That will be the elected or appointed folks in CA. I would not bet a used bottle cap either way on this one.
Just shoot Pops, dont talk.
No. 2 less Obummer supporters if she was not lying.
He shot her in the alley outside the house as they were running away.
He's in deep doo-doo... Can't do that in the majority of areas/states..
Was it the same family who robbed him previously I wonder?
That could have a bearing on whether he faces charges or how a court might view his actions..
Was it the same family who robbed him previously I wonder?
That could have a bearing on whether he faces charges or how a court might view his actions..
That probably has no legal bearing on the justification issue, thus it's possible that that information would be excluded from coming into evidence if true, i.e., the jury wouldn't hear it, if so.
This is likely an old guy without any legal training scared and mad. His adrenaline running crazy. Ive never been 80 years old living alone ,lying on the floor with broken collar bone, hurt ,not sure how bad getting the [bleep] kicked out of me by two much younger healthier stronger people who are ransacking the only thing
I have wondering if they will find my gun and kill me or bludgeon me to death with a lamp. So i wont judge him. He was probably in a mental state for days after. Unfortunately He is probably in legal trouble both criminal and civil if he has anything at all. I could be wrong, But
I find it hard to believe their is jury that will convict him.
Once the perps put the man's brain into lizard mode by beating him, they gets what they Goetz.
Once the perps put the man's brain into lizard mode by beating him, they gets what they Goetz.
Yes, he can certainly claim "heat of passion" as his defense, which will reduce murder to manslaughter, along with, perhaps, a suspended sentence.
Can I come in noting that our little sweetheart told just one last little lie before being departed from this plane?
Once the perps put the man's brain into lizard mode by beating him, they gets what they Goetz.
I remember the Goetz case from the mid 80's but do not remember the legal defense strategy taken. Is there a parallel here? Thanks.
Once the perps put the man's brain into lizard mode by beating him, they gets what they Goetz.
I remember the Goetz case from the mid 80's but do not remember the legal defense strategy taken. Is there a parallel here? Thanks.
Here you go:
Bernhard Goetz His defense was that he was being robbed and felt that he needed to disable all of the robbers to secure his own safety since they had implied that they were armed and that he would be seriously injured or killed if he didn't hand them his money.
Although acquitted for the shooting based on justification, he was sentenced to one year in prison (served eight months) for illegally possessing a handgun. He had applied for a permit previously after being mugged, but was turned down due to inadequate cause (in New York City, you have to be a member of the glitterati to have sufficient cause for a concealed weapon permit).
Later he was sued by the surviving mugger, who was awarded a 43 million dollar judgment.
Thank you for the information, I appreciate it.
The wheels of justice turn slow out there, don't they?
Boo hoo. Can't find any sympathy. Make a living victimizing folks and get what's coming to you.
PS In Florida, home intruders are presumed by law to be threats to life and limb, so there's no need to prove it if you have to shoot them. It's an automatic justified shooting. They're deemed a threat till they're out of the house.
This article is 13 months old.
The OP is nearly 2 years old.
I'd have shot them inside my house not in the alley as they're running away. With that said I'm glad the old guy plugged one, too bad he didn't get the other one. I hope he doesn't get in trouble.
If enough people kill the scum eventually we'll run out of scum....or bullets.