What do you guys use to sharpen knives in the field? At home I have a hard felt wheel on a bench grinder that I use with a honing compound, but would like something portable too. I am really bad for losing things like knives, so I don't spend a lot of money on them. A Mora or some of the yellow handled Henkels from Cabela's are what I'll most likely have with me. Plenty god for a deer or two, but I'd like something to touch up in the field or sharpen it back up when I do something stupid. Any suggestions?

http://www.basspro.com/Rapala-TwoStage-Knife-Sharpener/product/15921/


Lots of times I just give them a few swipes on the back of the sheath (leather), or you could use your belt.

I carry Steelhead's gizmo in my hunting pack. It does a good job in the field.

If you're hunting, one knife should do it all. If it can't, search for another knife or learn how to use it properly.

If you're on some epic adventure and plan on gutting, quartering, and butchering a plethora of moose sized creatures, you won't likely be carrying everything on your back at once so bring multiple knives.

In field knife sharpening is like in field reloading, or mid sex condom changes. Just pffucking pointless unless you're Gomer Pyle.

Even if it works its still gay. A proper man can use a flat diamond hone to get a serviceable edge. A DMT blue stone and some sort of steel (Gerber's is the best I've tried) but a smooth stone and a leather boot will work nicely.

Bullschidt. You cain't sharpen a knife for schidt, can you?

I use those too. They work great and they are fast, easy to use in the field and lightweight. It's nice to think we can do everything with 1 knife, but there are times when you need to freshen up the blade. I keep 1 of these little gadgets in each of my packs with my knives:

You might explore other manufactures to expand your horizons. Frankly I'm disappointed if gerber 'steel' is the epitome of your experience. I've yet to meet a creature so physiologically complex that one knife couldn't tackle them. Just to add insult to injury, any Gene Ingram i've used was still hair popping, razor blade sharp afterwards.

Perhaps your methodologies differ from mine? Certainly a straight line is not always the most efficient vehicle between two points.

I always carried a small fine stone and a Diamond steel, to my knowledge neither has ever been needed if I have good quality knife which is a older Buck of 440C steel. I have gutted and split the brisket on two young elk, and it would still shave my arm.
Tried a deer with a Gerber, mistake if you don't cut around his ass before you open the belly and split his brisket.

[color:#660000][u]Spyderco Pocket Stone[/u][/color]

The ceramic stone measures 1" x 5" x 1/8"

Good steel used well and there is no need for field sharpening unless you are market shooting or accidentally hit a rock with the edge, etc. Puzzling exchange.

A friend and I were gutting and skinning a moose, he with a fixed blade full size hunting knife and me with a small Buck folder. He kept pausing to touch up his edge with a medium coarse stone and kept trying to get me to do the same. I keep the blade shaving sharp and didn't want my knife to touch such a coarse stone. Finally when we were nearly done and my knife had done 3/4 of it, when he pressed me again I shaved a clean patch of hair from my arm and didn't say a word.

At home I use an ancient razor hone and a belt. On multi-day trips I take a small fine smooth hard Arkansas stone.

A lot depends on the steel in the knife...

With a new $25 knife in Aus8 this spring I skinned and boned out an extra large black bear and that blade impressed me because it was still shaving sharp at the end. Cheap off brand but good steel...

I use a Gerber Sportsman Steel to touch up an edge in the field, unless you're on an extended stay that's all you need. Unfortunately they are discontinued. Like this one except mine is separate from the sheath. Can also split a pelvis with it but a Sagan Saw works better. For compact edge grinding a circular two sided carborundum axe stone (Norton) works well.

http://www.basspro.com/Smiths-Pocket-Pal-MultiFunction-Knife-Sharpener/product/99664/

Use to carry a steel but these puts a good edge back in your blade and gets you back to skinning much faster.

Well my , my, there surely are some differeing opinions here....

I tend to agre with the use a good quality knife theory....but on occasion have had to touch a knife up in the field....

For years I've carried an old EZE Lap Diamond sharpener that stows withint itself. Made of brass, you unscrew it, reverse the rod end that comes out, and there you have a diamond rod sharpener at your disposable. Haven't needed it very often, but nice to have when you do.

I found it many years ago when I was in the Army. I was looking for something to take into the field/boonies with me that didn't require me to carry oil/stone in my ruck sack. This has done an admirable job.....

I have the EZE lap diamond also have a small folding diamond hone from Craftsman that folds up .Either one will do .

Rada

Cheap.....light......fast.....works!!!

I carry an old EZ Lap diamond sharpener


http://images.knifecenter.com/thumb/1500x1500/knifecenter/sharpen/images/EZ_M_3060.jpg

I too use Steelhead's gizmo. For me it works fine, and it's pretty much idiot proof. I can't for the life of me sharpen a knife with a stone.

Same I use in the homes, one in Texas, one in Idaho and one in Korea. Had one in Oz as well. They just work,

http://www.accusharp.com/

a good knife should not need much sharpening in the field. If mine were to need a touch up, I have a small diamond stick in my pack.

I'm with George. Good steel shouldn't need touch up in the field. Last year I gutted three, skinned and quartered five with a D2 KOA and it's ready to go again this year without any work. I had Dale Atkerson make me a big size Santoku out of 5/32 D2, and that beast gets used daily. It came with a toothy edge on it. I sharpened it once, put a finer edge on it and it's still shaving sharp. In the last year it's sliced up an awful lot of venison

I do go to deer camp with a decent stone, an oval diamond steel and both medium and fine ceramic rods though because other people do bring dull knives.

Did I have to go minimalist, I have a six inch oval diamond steel that can take a knife from bad dull to shaving sharp, but it's a little less precise and a little slower than a decent stone.

Oh good, since others have pointed out that you don't have any idea how to use or sharpen a blade, and that your blades are of inherently inferior materials, as theirs are not the same and thus are to be instantly recognised as superior design, build quality, colour, and shape...and they automatically endow their users with a longer penis (or two).

For the rest of we poor uneducated saps that have been using knives for a lifetime (and obviously doing it wrong), it is a simple thing to carry a Case Moon Stick or a similar ceramic sharpening stick in the paddock, I suggest this as the ceramic sticks allow for use as a small butcher's steel and are light to carry.

This is as simple and easy as the afore-mentioned Gerber steel and the Schrade version...and as the knives in question are not comprised of a fractured titanium frame housing a depleted uranium core supporting a nano-derived diamond filament edge, in BLAZE ORANGE, each of these units will suffice.

I carry the same small gizmo Steelhead noted in my pack. I have a waustoff sharpener in my gear box in the truck. I cant remember ever remember using the small one in the field. My knives seem to stay sharp for a few deer as longbas i dont use them like a hatchet.

well, until you get with the "cool" crowd and spend hundreds on knives and sharpeners, this works great.

http://www.rei.com/product/780741/smiths-pocket-pal-knife-sharpener

btw, i have been using the same $15 Queen Steel sheath knife for 40 years and using that little gizmo, i can get it to shaving sharpness in a few min. granted, i can't cut 20d nails and then butcher a rhino with it, but it works on all north american sized game.

Although one of the DMT products is probably better, this little guy could probably be a solution for only $10. A few light passes for touch ups or you could regrind the edge "when you do something stupid". Remember to use light pressure with diamonds.

http://www.basspro.com/Smiths-4-Diamond-Sharpening-Stone-with-Cover/product/1307221115/

Additionally, you could contact cement a piece of scrap leather onto a paint stirring stick and charge it with the buffing compound you use to sharpen. That along with the little diamond stone would be a complete, portable and inexpensive sharpening system. If you avoid "stupid" the little strop will likely be all you need.

I've tried them all. Being a woodworker, I took a class on sharpening chisels and plane blades. Diamond plates is what works best and fastest. DMT makes a small folding sharpener with two grits of diamond coated plates. Very small and very good. I can use it to put a razor edge on a knife very quickly. Had a steel prior to that. Had a ceramic prior to that. They can't compare. Use the DMT and then strop the edge on your leather boot or leather knife sheath. Trust me on this.

xxclaro;
Good morning to you sir, I believe you folks across the Rockies have a Stat holiday today as well so perhaps you like me this morning are not heading off to the salt mines?

As many already here know about me, I'm more than a wee bit of what Lt. Pat Powell dubbed me - a "knife nut".

So over the years I've tried most of the latest and greatest steels with various blade shapes.



For example in the above photos there are representations of S30V heat treated by Paul Bos, VG10, 154CM, D2, A2, Elmax, G2, GIN 1 and whatever Gerber used back in the day on the Skookum knives. As well but not shown I've played with blades made up from 52100, ATS34 and of course the 440C, 420HC, AUS8 and some of Kershaw's 14C28N stuff too if memory serves.

We've been processing the game for our family and friends since the late '80's too, so we've amassed a fair collection of various commercial meat cutting blades and whatever steel they're made from too.


Once upon a time I used to go help our taxidermist friends down the road when work was slow for me in winter, so I've caped a few animals.

Speaking broadly then sir and I am acutely cognizant of the murky situations that practice can lead to, I'd suggest that a blade that handles deer,bear,sheep,cats,coyotes and beaver should be able to be touched up quite nicely with a medium grit ceramic rod.

Moose in my experience, especially a bull that's been rolling in the mud and is covered with frozen, sandy mud, can present more of a challenge to knife steel.

There are at least 3 different "grits" of ceramic rod that we've purchased so far, the grey one being the coarsest and a white one from Buck knives being the finest. Depending upon how sharp your knife was to begin with, the angle of your sharpening and what the steel is - usually a ceramic rod will work fine.

We've got a couple variations of the small sharpening tool that Steelhead/Scott showed a link for and have found the carbide side to be OK for many of the softer steels such as the commercial meat cutting blades are made from. I'd say that the steel found on most Mora's I've had or a Henkels would fall into that category.

The ceramic side on the ones we've got is quite fine actually so it's a bit of a stretch going from the carbide side to the ceramic on some harder blade steels - S30V or Elmax - but should work OK for the knives you prefer.

For many years I carried a diamond rod in my pack and it worked fine for light field touch up work. Honestly since I've given it away to our eldest daughter I've taken to simply carrying another lightweight folder or even fixed blade knife in my pack.

With apologies for my typically too long reply sir, I hope you or someone got something of use from my information, good luck with your blades whichever way you decide and again have a good Stat day off.

Dwayne

Figured you to go straight to the [bleep] talk.

You might not suck a dick but you'll hold one in your mouth till a [bleep] comes along.

While I always carry a good knife, both hunting and for business, last year I used a Havalon Piranta for the first time to skin and bone out a Cow Elk. It stayed sharp until the last quarter and then all I did was replace the blade. I was skeptical it would work that well, but it did. It will not replace a good knife, IMO, but for quick work while in the field, this "knife" works really well.

Dwayne, I always enjoy your posts. I use regular butcher knives exclusively except for the Buck folding sheath knife that I always carry. I often wonder why butchers do not buy themselves some high end knives, that you can use forever and not have to resharpen, and save themselves a lot of time and trouble. Just look at all the meat they could be cutting while they are taking care of their knives. Maybe beef prices would go down. miles

I've used them all, and am pretty good at freehand sharpening with diamond/ceremac, but the gizmos like the Smith's are the ticket in the field.

milespatton;
Thanks for the kind reply sir, I do appreciate it. Hopefully this first Monday in August has been treating you well.

This is a guess on my part, but based upon doing a fair bit of game processing over the years I'd suggest that commercial meat cutters don't go with a "super" steel because they take too long to get a workable edge on when they do get dull.

As we're trying to get all the edible meat we can from our game, the working edge of the steel on a boning knife will be grinding on deer/bear/sheep/moose bones for it's entire shift - so it IS going to dull somewhat.

Honestly Miles I've gone using the softer blades such as the wooden handled one - Dexter I think it might be? - because it takes a nice toothy edge easily with a steel. Much faster than my favorite wooden handled Forschner/Victorinox boning knife for instance.

Then too, the Dexter's blade works really, really well with either a carbide tool like Scott showed or a double disc carbide pull through from Rada.

As always Miles, there are many ways to either skin a cat or get to Mecca and I've not found the only correct one I'm sure.

Thanks again sir and all the best to you for the rest of our rapidly vanishing summer.

Dwayne

(Oops. Below was written before I saw your most recent post, and duplicating some of what you said).

Dwayne, you really are a knife junkie! Bravo!

My family says that I am, so I may point them to you. A man in excess always needs to have someone in greater excess so that by comparison he looks moderate. I need to drink another cup of coffee and see if that sentence makes any sense.

IMO sharpening knives in the field needn't be either/or nor "better than you"-- merely how we have developed our personal style of procedure and our choice of tools. I like steel so hard that it is almost brittle and such steel usually has a reputation of being hard to sharpen. Hard to sharpen means that it is harder to dull and holds an edge.

Shaving edge or wire edge is another difference of personal preference. The butchers I know all go for the wire edge which they achieve with slightly softer steel touched up often with a quick pass on a sharpening steel.

FWIW I have a reputation for over obsessing about sharp knives-- but my daughter back east wants me to visit every few months and sharpen all the knives in her house. I got her a sharpening steel and a large crock stick and she has been delighted to find that a brief touch up of edge each time she pulls the knife out to use it has kept knives sharp far longer.

If you can sharpen before the knife gets very dull it is easier to keep a functioning edge. If really dull, we may have to start over and reshape the edge and its shoulders, not a field project unless we have a fairly coarse stone along.

And then their are granite counter tops... grrrr They are NOT a cutting board, which is apparently beyond the comprehension of many low information knife users.

99.9% of females.

Don't take you long to start talkin' about other men's loins does it? They are always on your simple mind.

I also have a ceramic hone similar to the Rapala shown. I keep it in the kitchen drawer for use on an occasional filet knife, or for Momma to use since she does not care to use the hone steel in the kitchen.

In the field I carry that same sweet EZ lap as was mentioned earlier. But seldom have need for it.



I usually carry an old Schrade LB7 on my belt and a drop point Gerber folder in my pocket. Either is capable of skinning and boning a typical elk without need for resharpening.

In 2012 I carried a Cutco hunting knife on an elk hunt.

My bull collapsed onto his stomach with all four legs under him. As big as he was, that seemed to be the perfect way to skin him.

We slit his hide right up the back bone from tail to head. That hide was like cutting old shoe leather. (the meat was quite similar) I was glad to be carrying the EZ Lap as I touched the Cutco knife up several times as we skinned and boned that beast.

That little dual grit DMT with the "bali-song" handles is about the best sharpener in existence. The blue grit is the one you can't be without. You can get blue with black (coarse) and have an excellent tool for shaping/sharpening an axe or hatchet, in the field or otherwise, or get the blue with the red (fine) grit if you feel the need. Blue with a steel gets sharp edges everytime unless the steel is junk, IE the Glock field knife.

I use the DMT Bali blue/black. Skin from inside out to keep it out of the hair.

Harsh

Snake

No, just silly. I wonder how Jim Bridger got by.

Is this the one? Those little suckers are spendy.

Okanagan;
Top of the morning to you sir! It's always good to see you post as I enjoy what you have to say - even in this case if it's the stinging truth that I can now serve as a bad example for you.....glad to be of service.

In all truth I've just wandered back in from the shop where I was putting a coat of G2 epoxy on the burled quince scales on my latest addition. It's my first venture into higher end cooking knives - a Mcusta Zanmai VG10 Hocho.

This is pre-epoxy on the scales by the way.


Of course the way these projects go, I had extra epoxy left over, so started to coat the handle on a Hultafors Bruks axe that I picked up at the OK Falls flea market earlier this year. Let's not talk about my addiction to Swedish axes this morning please - we'll save that for later in case you need it for your family at a later date.

Anyway sir, I figure as long as I'm not cutting into family finances too badly - as I believe I've said to you, nowadays my gun and knife purchases are financed by stock repair work mostly - it's a "fairly" harmless hobby.

It's been too long since we've had coffee on our back deck Okanagan, so if you get the urge to hunt out our way I believe you should follow it this fall for sure.

All the best of our Lord's blessings on you and your fine family Okanagan.

Dwayne

Easy. Havels Piranta. Spare blades don't weigh an ounce. Carry 12 or so generally... phooey on having to sharpen in the bush. Heck I don't much use anything that needs sharpening anymore period.

Once you learn as a youth, how to dejoint things, small knives with replaceable blades, once they came along, are a heck of deal.

believe I have most everything pictured with the exception of the gizmo Steelhead prefers, it seems it would have some merit.

but like Dwayne I wonder how many moose some folks have worked up that say a knife never needs touching up in the field.


and truthfully, sometimes I take a break from butchering moose just to straighten up and ease my back for a moment. To cover my sissiness, I'll whet up the blade a bit as a cover. (grin)


here's what I'm using when I'm touching up a knife in the field.


http://www.fetznerspeedysharp.net/

I ain't scared to have a couple of knives with me.

Owwww! Flashback to pain. My aging back does not like field dressing critters anymore, especially big ones.

I carry a fine hard a Arkansas stone about 2" x 2 " and a 6" ceramic steel. I have seldom used them in the last several years.

I have bought few knives from a little unknown farmer in Kansas by the name of E.J Smith (Smith Knives).

They hold up very well, I touch them up after every elk season, but they need little. Knife and sheath was $60.

I have told others about them and offered to buy the knife if they were dissatisfied. In 10 years or so, I have never had to buy one of those knives .

Spending a few hundred $$ on a knife is not something I would do. I have a tendency to loose things.

I usually have two: one for cuts that may dull or contaminate the blade and the other for all else.

Beautiful knife BTW, and a practical one for the kitchen.

Some good info in this thread, but so far nobody has mentioned this. Carry a few replacement blades and you won't have to worry about dull. I never field sharpen a knife any more.

When I found out about Havalon knives, I told all my doctor friends who hunt, and my taxidermist friends. I found out they all use them, although not all of them knew about the folding mechanism the blade attaches to. They were using them on a fixed handle.

I figure if it's sharp enough for doctors, it's sharp enough for me. Saves a lot of time and weight. Wish I would have had one on my moose hunt.

Steve.

That's it. Worth your coin.

Now THAT is a knife!

1 knife, 3 blades

Good info here guys, appreciate it. I'll see what I can find next time I'm in the city, I'm sure at least a couple will be available. I got drawn for a moose tag this year and just got permission on some primo elk hunting land, so I'm anticipating some knife usage this year.

Dwayne mentioned something else I'm curious about, the "toothy" edge. The wheel I use leaves the edge of the blade with a mirror finish, and easily shaves. However, sometimes it seems like its almost too smooth, and that knives sharpened on stones or whatever seem to almost cut faster. Anything to this, or just my imagination?

Take a knee;
Thanks for the reply sir, indeed so far I'm quite pleased with it's performance.

It's got just enough curve or belly for me to be useful for carving smaller venison and pork roasts and for stuff like cabbage or watermelon it's really useful.

As mentioned the only thing that gives me a bit of pause is the quince scales didn't seem to be coated with much of anything to seal them. Naturally all the good blades in our house are hand washed only....

This one came my way via a Canadian site I venture onto where a professional chef wanted a ZT560 I had for sale/trade and had this sitting next to new in his drawer. A quick couple thousand mile trip in the mail for each blade and it appears both new owners are happy.

Thanks again sir and all the best to you in the upcoming week.

Dwayne

xxclaro;
Top of the morning to you again sir, hopefully the day has been going well.

So obviously I'm incapable of a short answer, but here goes...

For skinning and "typical" field dressing I'll usually go with a mirror polished edge if the steel is happy with that or say a 1500 grit finish at least.

I mention the 1500 grit finish as one folder I've got - Gerber GatorMate first run of 154CM - does not cut as efficiently on hide with a mirror polished edge but cuts like the dickens if finished with 1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper.

Lay the sand paper grit of choice on a piece of glass - use favorite cutting oil and go for it.

For a mirror polish I use an 8" leather faced stropping wheel I made up with 3/4" MDF and a chunk of oak bark tanned rein leather. I use a grey, fine polishing media to dope/dress the wheel and turn it with a 1/2 HP motor at 1760rpm.

When cutting meat, that is to say butchering, I've found a coarser "toothy" edge works better and in my experience lasts longer than when I put a mirror polish onto the boning knives.

Steak or roast cutting scimitar knives that don't run along bone for their entire shift seem to do OK with a mirror polish, but are equally OK with the coarser edge I've attempted to describe.

Hopefully that made some sense and was useful information to you xxclaro. Have a good one and good luck whichever way you decide to sharpen your various blades.

Dwayne

You're gong to love that knife. For slicing work VG-10 and a skinny angle (10 degrees/side) is as good as I've found. I've been using VG-10 blades for ten plus years now and haven't found something I like better for butchering and general slicing. They stay sharp forever.

When you start thinking about a second VG-10 blade, try here:

http://www.woodcraft.com/category/4/2083870/2084248/ZHEN%20Premium%20Damascus%20Knife%20Kits.aspx

The Nakiri is a wonderful tool for making jerky.

yes - but it will outlive u

Dr. Saxton Pope, a surgeon and bowhunter before the days of disposable broadheads did a test of three points, two steel and one stone. One had an edge sharpened like a razor, keen and smooth, one sharpened with a file, toothy and nasty , and the last was finely chipped obsidian. All shot into a shoulder of some kind of quadruped. The toothy steel penetrated farther than the razor edge but the black glass arrowhead with the chipped out serrated edge beat both of the steel points. The sharpening gurus at places like bladeforums will tell about polished edges and push cutting and whittling hair but they can speak to waterstones and see microns. For the rest of us it's nice to know we can use man portable hand stones and get a pretty good edge. Or the, purists>>>close your eyes,........Accusharp.

I've used a tin can lid for scraping hides and for quartering critters. Just to do it. I've used decent steel like Chicago Cutlery, Camillus, Gerber etc and I have no doubt in my mind that the newer steels are far superior. I made my first blade out of D2 back in high school, and with good heat treatment and diamond stones it is a treat to use. With modern heat treatment and tempering it's one of the damn near competitive with anything. I don't want to go back to the quality of steel I used back in the fifties through seventies, I know better.

For people like you, who think average is good enough, just remember you have to be better than average at sharpening and resharpening them. You have to do it more often that average. You also get to spend more time than average on the work you do with them.

MILES58;
Thanks for the report on your VG10 experience and the link.....though I'm not sure I needed the link right yet if you know what I mean?

One of the folders in the photos I put up is a Spyderco Centofante III with a very thin VG10 blade. I've used it on a whole bunch of skinning and field dressing chores and like you came away with a very favorable impression of VG10 or at least the way Spyderco has heat treated it.

In any discussion about steel I've found that who has heat treated it and by extension how they do it makes a huge difference. Just like all steels, all heat treating facilities are not created equally.....

Thanks again sir and all the best to you for the remainder of our summer.

Dwayne

Look at a post around 934 AM this morning. LOL.

Thanks Dwayne, that seems to be what I'm experiencing too. The mirror edge shaves beautifully, but doesn't seem to cut quite as well as the slightly rougher edge when butchering. I believe it is probably superior in some instances, and I do all my broadheads that way, but I think I'll try your 1500 grit method. I used to have several glass plates with varying grits for sharpening chisels and the like, believe they got lost in the move though.

Might be I can use something like a paint stick to glue a piece and to and it should work ok to put in the camper and touch up knives while sitting around the fire at night. Also found a gizmo similar to what Steelhead posted, only mine has just the single slot with the ceramic rods. It does seem to help though. I'm going to see if I can find the dual slot one in town.

I've got a two week archery elk hunt coming up here in September, followed by moose season back here at home, so I'm collecting all my knives and trying to get them ready to go.

Think of a knife edge like saw blade, same idea in a way, only a lot smaller teeth. Honed to smooth and it will not cut some things as well as a tad rougher edge (larger teeth) will.

I've heard the "toothy" edge Dwayne mentions called a wire edge. Under a microscope it is a miniature saw compared to a shaving edge. Butchers prefer it. In the field I like the smooth shaving edge, but when cutting meat at home we use knives with slightly softer steel sharpened to a "toothy" edge.

Ah -- missed that post.

Steve.

Gee, I haven't spent 17 years harvesting kangaroos and field processing them for the chiller to earn my livelyhood, guess I didn't spend all those years cutting through ribs, briskets, hoppers, dirt and mud laden tails, arms, and smashed skulls and neck bones.

And I probably didn't spend a goodly number of those years harvesting pigs for the chiller either (not one or two for the fun of it).


F Dick, Swibo, Eicker, Vitorinox, and those Kiwi blades are what is used commercially.

You see...For people like you, 40 or 50 thousand carcases is probably outside your ken.

This was the first gut of the night, I shot and processed 74 that night, and 95 the next night...let me see your you-beaut stay sharp maintain that.

My brother posing for pic at Freshwater station NSW.

Have a nice day.

I think too many make it all too complicated. I have relatives that worked on the line at Morrell's processing pork. They use commercial quality knives of good steel but not the super knife steels. They do buy really good steels and steel constantly to keep the edge. When the edge is worn down they switch knifes and have it reground (not polished) by one of the guys that picks up a couple extra bucks that way. An uncle did that and always had work, he could grind a good working edge that held up longer. They can go through a couple knives a shift but that's cutting more meat than most of us ever will.

Right, except it isn't a "wire". That has to be removed. Something like a woodplane's iron has to be several orders of magnitude sharper to accomplish its task than a knife has to be to butcher a critter.

Rubbish...anyone working as a slaught in an abs uses a finely polished steel for touching up his meat knife, anything else drags in the meat and is too bloody hard on the wrists.

Most carry two steels, a slightly courser steel for bringing up a dulled edge, a fine polished steel to make that edge run.

A wire edge is a very weak edge and really isn't an edge at all. It needs to be removed, which is what stropping will do for you, and is why you need to go from coarse grit to finer grits to the leather strop with diamond paste or jeweler's rouge on it. A diamond stone will remove steel fastest of any method and I don't even use a coarse diamond plate. Unless the edge is like a butter knife, you don't need a coarse stone or diamond plate surface. Start with a DMT medium till it's sharp, then go to the DMT fine or ultra fine till it's really sharp, then go to the leather strop.

The diamond plate will never dish or wear out. And it's really fast. Use it dry, wash with soap and water, dry it and put it away. It'll outlast you.

I used Arkansas stones for a long time. Bought some really expensive ones. Thought I had the best of the best till I took that sharpening class and learned how the pros do it. Got the Arkansas stones boxed up now and will sell them if anyone needs old style sharpening. If you have not tried Diamond plates, then you haven't tried the good stuff. Get that DMT folder and put it in your hunting bag. Get the red/blue combo. Go to the Woodcraft website. They sell it and they sell the bigger diamond plates also. You want the Medium and the Ultra Fine. That's all you need.

The angle of the edge matters a lot. If you lay the blade flat on the stone, you can get a really finely angled edge. Probably will have a wire edge or close to it. Won't last, but it'll be really sharp for a very short time (think old style shaving razor). If you cut an edge that is at too big an angle it won't be really sharp, but it'll last forever (think Axe). What you want is to find the edge angle that suits what you need it to do - one that'll be both sharp and durable. Older steels will sharpen easily and quickly, but won't hold an edge long, but you can re-edge it easily and quickly. The newer steels can be harder to sharpen, but will hold an edge longer. As I've gradually become a more accomplished woodworker (and smarter) with chisels and hand planes, I've bought better and harder steels. To sharpen them, I really need those diamond plates. Some folks use sandpaper on granite and think that's pretty cool. I think it's pretty messy and less efficient. I need to sharpen a chisel or whatever, and get right back to the woodworking as fast and efficiently as I can. That's why I use diamond plates and that's why that DMT diamond plate folder is now in my bag for the hunting knife. It's what works best.

Exactly right on the two grades of steels. The fine steel gets the most use on the line. A cousin gave me a fine steel that someone lost, nicer than I would probably buy for home use. He said they were going for about $60 at the time.

If your cousin worked as a boner for any length of time I would bet London to a brick he has hands like a gorilla, thick wrists and forearms, is showing sign of arthritis in his wrists and shoulders, and has problems with varicose veins from standing on cold cement all day.

It is a bugger of a job.

I know it's quibbling but you do want a sharp edge on an axe. An axe that doesn't bite is dangerous, glancing and bouncing hither and yon. My grandfather used one for a living and you could just about shave with his axes. Touched up with a stone like a meat cutter with a steel.

BTW, he used a pedal powered wet wheel for everything but pocket knives, for that he used the fine side of his axe stone. Didn't like electric power wheels as part of his technique was controlling the speed of the wheel. His knives you could shave with. (though it wouldn't be fun with the not razor edge angle)

Don's dad got him jobs off the line pretty fast, and his brother too. Old Len had some of those problems and didn't want his kids to get them. My cousin has arthur in hands and back though. I'm pretty sure they have rubber mats on the line and a good cutting height. One place where the union does good work, until they get too political at least.

We have some different semantics working against us as to what we (and butchers we know) call it but what you are describing is exactly what I am. I will stick to my guns that no steel I've ever seen or heard of will put the kind of smooth shaving edge that a old time razor hone or the rim of a fine China ceramic cup will (which I have used a number of times to finish such an edge). The steel puts a micro toothy edge on the blade which cuts meat smoothly and superbly, as you say.

603country,

What I've heard called a wire edge is the edge AFTER the tiny weak strip is removed. Who knows who gets to define these terms? I'm OK with your definition.

To anyone interested: Clarifying what each of us means by the same word helps the conversation, and asking when it is not clear is usually more helpful than attacking before we find out.

The wire edge, also called a "burr" is a strand of weak metal that forms when the apex is ground. The big challenge in sharpening is getting rid of that. It is not the same as the micro teeth. A wire edge will snap off shortly after you start cutting with it, taking the teeth with it, and you will think your knife "won't hold an edge". I think a lot of guys will pull a wire edge on their coarse stone and then move on to the finer ones without getting rid of it and just polish and refine the burr.

You can shave with a burr and cut with it for a little while so a guy will think his knife is sharp. One obvious sign of a burr is a knife that will shave on one side of the bevel and not the other. That is why I prefer cutting phone book paper to shaving as a test of the quality of my edge. You won't be able to cut phone book paper but 4 or 5 slices before a burr starts failing and you start tearing the paper. Another trick is to cut a couple of slices in cardboard or maybe lightly whittle some soft wood. You should be able to still cut phone book paper after that if the edge is burr free. If not, the cardboard snapped off the burr and your knife was never really sharpened right.

I don't think a lot of non knife nuts understand this. A run of the mill knife will cut well a long time if it has a clean burr free edge at any given level of refinement...certainly long enough to skin and gut a deer.

Steel has pretty much been my life since shortly after puberty. I've worked with about all of them that anyone can mention and then some.

I'm also a bit of a knife nut and have the typical drawer full of knives in my dresser.

For the past few years I've developed a fondness for old school carbon steel blades,...typically 1095 hardened to about,...oh,..I don't know,...maybe Rockwell 56 or so.

It doesn't hold an edge like D2 or Vega will, but once you get your own bevel put on a piece of 1095 carbon steel, all it takes is a minute or two with a medium grit silicon carbide stone and it's back in business.

Green River knives are good, no nonsense carbon steel knives,..so are Old Hickory.

As for field sharpening, a 3X5X1/2" medium grit silicon carbide stone and a small bottle of light oil doesn't eat up much room in a backpack,...and compared to a quality Arkansas stone, they cost next to nothing.

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Crystolon-Bench-Stone-8-x-3-P24C5.aspx

For me, water seems to work better than oil unless the stone can be dipped in a oil bath. Oil to me at least tends to gum up the stone.
Once a stone has been used with oil water will never work well.

Yes, terminology gets in the way sometimes. About the time I finished my post, good old shockwave crashed again and I did not get it in until after you 'splained yourself and the other guys jumped you!

I don't know,...oil just keeps the stone from getting loaded up with microscopic steel fragments.

Water may work too.

I've never tried it.

All of those sharpeners are good enough to freshin an edge. If you have a good steel and don't hack up bone, you should be able to take apart about fifty deer without a touch up.

At home I have a really old electric can opener that has some double grit grinding wheels on the side of it. If I run my Gene Ingram knives through it really slow I can almost make 'em look serrated and turn kind of blueish. Really nice!

I'm trying to find a small generator I can haul along in the field to use it when I need a touch up! Beat that!

Bob

Hot damn, that sounds like the ticket! I'm gonna see if I can find me one of those too...no draggin a knife on a stone like a sucker for me!

Actually, I'm pretty sure my parents had the same thing, and I do believe they actually used it...had a good laugh reading your post, as it is quite accurate.

Spyderco kit.

Stays in camp.



Travis

I find it's easier to sharpen everything about once every ten years. No need to sharpen in the field, just grab the next sharp knife.

Is there nothing about the hide and meat worth keeping on the part of kangaroo tail that is cut off?

I went and bought one of those today, at a ace hardware. It did work.
I must not be much of a man being unable to sharpen a knife on my boot.
Also took a couple of knives to a professional today. One was made out of a sawmill blade, about 60years ago. The steel is hard to do anything with, at least for me. 3bucks got it sharpened. Not boots used.

thank you
knives bring out the who has got the biggest pecker crowd.

Miles
few years ago we had a couple of dead buffalo bulls hanging in a garage. I did assist, but i had never done a buffalo before. The guy that owned the ranch pulls out this canvas bag, with about 30 knives in there. He would use one, till he didn't like it, then reach for another. When they ALL got dull, he took them to a professional knife sharpener. There was all kinds of knives in there from name brands, to Made in Turkistan.

used one of those to do two elk year before last, heck of a good idea for skinning for sure.

That would explain why you're not up to figuring out that the same amount of time to sharpen a good blade that lasts five times as long amounts to both a time and money savings. You should have spent more time in school and learned your numbers.

I think it is just this website....most any topic brings em out.

Yes, the cosmetics industry periodically purchases the tails for the collagen, tourists like to buy hides with tails on them, and Aboriginals at some of the missions purchase the tails of reds for eating.

Those 'roos were shot for pet food whilst the fauna dealer had no orders for tails.

Incorrect, mention of knives invariably brings out the tossers that have used a knife a half dozen times in their life, and every single stupid half-arsed idea they have.

Putting an edge on a knife and using it successfully is not rocket science or magic, it is accumulated experience, and having to read or listen to the absolute rubbish bandied about is why most of us do not generally care to discuss the matter.

Yep, that's the one I carry. I bought two of them many years ago....one for me, one for dad. I got his back after he passed....

I laugh at the ones using a steel to sharpen a knife. A steel simply straightens an edge damaged by use, or when first sharpened. miles

True. I tell people all the time that a "sharpening" steel is mis-named. It doesn't sharpen a knife because it doesn't take material off the edge. It only trues the edge.

Fact is using a steel is the overlooked tool in knife care. Many knives are sharpened when they don't need to be sharpened. They need to be steeled.

We should find another name for a sharpening steel that describes what a steel actually does.

Steve.

Curious, what chain saw should I select? I cut, at max, 9 11/32" logs of dead north Idaho birch?

In my experience, the EZ lap tool does not wear well. I've now three that are in varying degrees of smooth. I only use them as steels since they are near worthless for lapping. I've stopped purchasing EZ and have gone to DMT. It has been nearly 10 years and I have not had to replace the DMT.

The palm of your hand works pretty good as a hone as well, but be careful.

yeah. the dirtier your hands, the faster.....

Yes. Knife loonies are even worse than gun nuts.

fwiw...rant...

listening to JStuart will save you guys a bunch of headaches and purchases...:)

was trained by an industry pro, boned beef for years when I was a pup, had crew, on the wholesale end of things...retail is for gentiles

-knives hardened for the edge to last the longest are a PITA in the field, do your self a favor and get a blade that is easily sharpened, mind your angles and suddenly there is no science to knife sharpening, it just got a whole lot easier, a fine file and the blue jeans for a strop will do in a pinch. I rue the day the USDA made us go to stainless steel knives.
-wire edge? sharp is sharp, either side should shave hair
-no where in the universe is there more BS than guys talking knives, how many guys have actually used a knife for 1000 consecutive working hours? you actually do learn something....
-there is a reason the industry doesn't use short knives--well, maybe for oysters--but if you are a klutz, by all means save your fluids, knife wounds are unpleasant
-the importance of knife design is a far distant second to skill (a far distant second...)
--buying custom knives is important to family and country and we all should do it without question

Depends on the use of the Axe. My splitting axes have to be dull. Cutting ones have to be sharp.

Pretty much sums up sharpening for anything. Sharpen for how you will use it. miles

We always kept our splitting axes sharp but not so sharp as limbing. I got to practice sharpening on splitting axes, the limbing axes were off limits. As a kid I really enjoyed splitting good seasoned wood. Stacking it was another matter, grampa was never happy. His stacks had to be absolutely, positively, perfectly stable. Like building masonry, not even chipmunks could find a way in.

To summarize this discussion to this point:

There are two main philosophies re field sharpening of knives, defined in context as primarily for one or maybe two animals in N. America before return to a base with more sharpening tools. (Volume processing of many animals is a fascinating topic but an entirely different one).

Method/philosophy # 1. Use a hard steel blade that is very sharp and probably will not need touching up in the field. Take a minimal touch up device or strop on something already with you.

Method/ philosphy # 2. Use a softer steel blade and sharpen it often with various files, steels, edge grinding devices carried into the field.

The latter group folks have opined that the former are idiots who know nothing, have never used a knife and are genitally challenged.

The former folks will continue to carry what they know works when hunting and continue to dress animals with their puny equipment. Other than amusement they could not care less what anyone else thinks about it.

Both approaches work, though the latter group does not believe that.

Method/philosophy #3. Pick a knife with reasonably good steel that fits your method and sharpen it at home. Cut up game, doesn't have to be perfectly sharp all the time. You're butchering them not giving them a kissably close shave. If you're doing a whole pile of game or have a thing for sharp a steel or ceramic stick to straighten/refine the edge will do.

If you're cutting other stuff bring a camp knife and save your game knife for game.

I hate shlepping stuff I don't really need.

No relation.

FC

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I've learned a lot from gun nuts and knife nuts here and there. In the past, I learned a lot about the workings of computers from a gaming nut I worked with even though I utterly despise video games. "Enthusiasts" have brought up stuff that I would have never thought about otherwise and I am glad they are around.

One of my philosophies is that if you want to learn a little bit about something, find someone who is nuts about it. Real easy to do in this internet age. Yes you have to work through some "rubbish" but it beats heck out of trial and error.

I read a scientific study once on knife edges; it was geared towards knives for eye surgery. They compared sharpened steel, sharpened and polished steel, and glass. Glass beat the other two, and they mentioned knapped obsidian knives used by native peoples as having a superior edge to steel, but steel being more practical. The sharpened steel came in second. They had scanning electron microscope photos of all the edges and the glass and sharpened steel had lots of little teeth they called micro serations. The sharpened and polished steel had the teeth also, but they were rounded off, so not as effective. They went one step further and studied why a sharpened steel edge would go dull over time without use. In the SEM photos you could see the micro serations getting dull over time due to rusting off, even with stainless steels.

Check Murray Carter's website or his videos on YouTube. Murray is a Master Bladesmith who spent 17 or so years in Japan studying under a master. I used to see him at the knife shows in Seki, Gifu Prefecture.

Look at the one about him shaving with an axe.

He also gives classes and sells rare sharpening stones. He says he has now made over 20,000 knives of various kinds.

Keep in mind when comparing the cutting effectiveness between a toothy edge with micro serrations vs a polished edge, that a scalpel is only required to make a single cut that may only be measured in fractions of an inch. If it's dull after a few cuts it's thrown away.

A polished edge is only as sharp as the grit of the compound that polished it. A lot of polishing compound is fairly coarse and not consistent in grit. Very fine grit compound is not that commonly available.

A toothy edge may appear to have some advantages at first glance, but appearances are sometimes deceiving, a refined polished edge is superior and it takes a much higher level of understanding and practiced sharpening skills to achieve...it's not a 10-minute learning process.

Sharpening takes some skill and practice to learn, and some sharpening methods I've observed will only dull a truly sharp blade.

In the field you can do the best you can with the tools you have, but knowing how to do it, and a lot of practice refining an edge will make those efforts better.

For example, once the basic principles are well understood, a very sharp edge can be accomplished using only the bottom of a ceramic coffee cup and a leather belt.

A steel can be improvised from any smooth, rounded metal object...

I wonder where one of those are handy in the field...?

I haven't had to field sharpen a knife yet (during hunting), but I carry a sharpener with me as I backpack hunt and always plan for the worst. I never leave camp without fire tools and my knife.

BTW, I carry the DMT Diafold tool...

I use a Gatco kit at home when I need to reestablish an edge on hunting and pocket knives. I mostly use either a steel rod or the Rapala unit Stealhead posted on kitchen and fillet knives, but occasionally use a large stone. I don't carry sharpening gear in the field anymore, but always have a main knife and a smaller back-up (which I very seldom need).

I used to have a steady enough hand I could get a shaving sharp edge on most any knife, but I seem to have lost the touch. The above works well enough for me to keep them plenty sharp...