I put this up in classifieds, as well, but thought with all of the Military history buffs and veterans here, I might find a new home for this rifle here more readily or at least get a better idea as to real world value.

I was offered in trade a very interesting firearm today. Manufacture date on the barrel is 1933, serial number 3,000,000+ a little, Springfield 1903 with lots of cosmolene still on and in it. No indications that it has ever been issued or fired. Now, it could be a really good arsenal re finish, but it is a completely original, unmodified and clean as a whistle rifle. In asddition, all the serial numbers match and no signs of wear to the finish anywhere including the bolt face.

Before I pull the trigger on this deal, about what are these all original 03'S WORTH these days? (assuming this rifle is what it seems to be.)

Does anyone here in particular want one of these? I do not, my end game is cash. It is being offered me as a straight trade for my in the original box with all papers 2 inch Nickel finish Combat Masterpiece in nearly new condition.

I can get and send detailed pictures if someone here is interested in owning it. I likely wont do the trade unless I am pretty sure I am going to come out OK and have a buyer for the 03 ready on standby. I know the market on nice S&W revolvers sorta OK, I know less than zero about a rifle of this type and its marketability, quick sale value etc.

THANKS for the help!

Hello Safariman.

I heard the 1903's were horribly tempered and would blow apart in a minute. You better send it to me so I can dispose of it for you.



Otherwise I have seen them from $350 the CMP price to $900 the first asking price. The second price is somewhere around $600. Good luck.

kwg

and so it starts:
if you don't know anything about them, how do you know it is all original?
Oh, by the way, they only have one serial number.

"In asddition, all the serial numbers match and no signs of wear to the finish anywhere including the bolt face."

I would be getting it from the same person/estate manager with whom I have dealt before on several very nice and often rare pre 64 Model 70's. I am parroting him on some of this, but he has never sold or traded to me anything but a first rate, fine firearm. His father knew the guns he was getting, and only kept the best. Several of these extra nice model 70's including like new specimens in 257 Roberts and 7x57 have gone to quite happy members here.

I did not know that they were only marked in one place for a serial number. Thanks for that tidbit of info. That is, to a degree, what I am looking and hoping for with this thread. As to the wear factor, that is easy enough to see and judge. No cartridge head ring or bluing loss on the bolt face, no rub marks on the Parkerization, even the finish on the bolt is still 100% with no signs that it has been worked back and forth except by an inspector or proud owner on rare occasions.

If someone here really wants one of these, always had it on thier to get list for example and I can help them in that, great. If not, no loss for anyone as I still have my nearly new Combat Masterpiece Nickel 2 inch revolver with box and papers etc. that I am sure I can sell, and maybe easier than the 1903. Just checking for interest and gathering info and opinions.

Mark - I'm interested.
PM pictures, and asking price.

If you think the rifle is a really nice one, then you should post your questions and a lot of good pictures at:

http://www.jouster.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?9-M1903-1903A3-A4-Springfield

There are several knowledgeable collectors and a couple of true experts there who will evaluate each and every piece of that rifle for you if you post enough good pictures.

Even a virtually unfired '03 may still have been re-arsenaled and thus the value can cover a tremendous range.

I was offered in trade a very interesting firearm today. Manufacture date on the barrel is 1933, serial number 3,000,000+ a little, Springfield 1903 with lots of cosmolene still on and in it.

per brophy's book on the springfield 1903 rifle, page 426, the last reciever was made in 1939 and it was no. 1,532,878. Although another, 1,547,987 does exist, but nowhere near the mentioned 3 000 000 number.

Hummmm......interesting. Existing in a location I was in Sunday late afternoon?

Something doesn't add up.

There weren't any 1903s being manufactured in 1933. Production ceased in about 1919.

In 1941, Remington fired up the old Rock Island Armory machinery and began making 1903s again, starting with SN 3,000,000 and began almost immediately replacing some of the milled parts with stamped parts because the RIA machinery was very worn and to speed up the production processes.

I would suspect that the best thing to do with this rifle is to have it examined - IN PERSON - by an expert on 1903s and go from there. There are way too many variables, too many inconsistencies, and too many oddities to do the "internet drive-by" and then put it up for sale.

Odd....

Extremely. Even more so when there is already an ad in the Classifieds offering to sell this very same "mystery" rifle with no pics and no ownership as of yet by the erstwhile seller.

Yep,,, smells fishy.

From the OP,,,,,,

" Does anyone here in particular want one of these? I do not, my end game is cash. It is being offered me as a straight trade for my in the original box with all papers 2 inch Nickel finish Combat Masterpiece in nearly new condition. "

If the "end game is cash" why not simply sell the handgun instead of turning the transaction into some kind of convoluted freak show? Unless of course,,, there's something you're not telling us.

Leaving aside all the other issues with this rifle and "deal", do you have an FFL and a business license? If not, you probably need one.

You continually seek out firearms for purchase and/or trade that you can then resell for a profit.

You depend upon the income from those activities at least to some degree (admissions of your wife's clothing, vehicular repairs, etc.).

You put time and effort into these activities with the expectation of a profit.

You change your methods and modes of operation (in person sales at gun shows, sales on internet forums) in order to maximize profit.

You have the knowledge and seek out others with knowledge to advise you on how to conduct these activities successfully (i.e., for a profit - this thread among others).

You have indicated time and again that you have made a profit from such activities, and that in some years there has been an overall net profit from your buying/selling/trading of firearms.

You certainly expect to make a profit from these activities in the future.

Your history here alone indicates that you've conducted these practices for at least three of the last five years.

I AM NOT GIVING YOU LEGAL ADVICE.

That said, if you're not clearly over the line from the "hobby exclusion" into the running of a business under IRS guidelines, then you are quite likely dangerously close.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Business-or-Hobby%3F-Answer-Has-Implications-for-Deductions

Considering that the activities involve the interstate purchase and sale of firearms (internet counts as interstate even if all the sales are within your state of residence), and that falls under ATF FFL guidelines, you're playing with fire to an even greater degree. Compound that with your status as a Social Security recipient and therefore perhaps income limited for benefits, and it gets worse.

Again, this is not legal advice. However, if I were you, I'd be seeking out legal counsel and laying out everything as plain and as frank (with no embellishment or fudging) as possible. I'd also suspend ever purchase, sale, or trade of any firearms until I had FIRM legal guidance on these activities. I can guarantee you that personally I would rather be getting answers from an attorney on these matters now than giving answers to the IRS, ATF, and/or Social Security later.

One last point: if your wife is a beneficiary of the income (and she clearly is), and she either knows (by attending gun shows, etc.) or should have known (by living with you and by being on this forum), then she is on the hook, too. That means even if your kidneys play out and you die, the IRS, ATF, and Social Security could potentially look at her as part of the business activities and therefore have her be subject to any types of penalties that you might have been subject for or to.

Just food for thought.

Anyone ask what the terms of sale are?

I think it is a $600 rifle that went through an arsenal rebuild. Not that that is a bad thing, it's authentic and a part of the arm's history. Sounds like a nice rifle, much nicer than one that someone tried to reassemble with so-called "correct" parts.

One thing's for sure, you'll know what it is when you get it. Oh, and all sales final! Bohica muddahfuggah!

Miltech Arms has been referbing 03's and all kinds of other old military rifles for several years. However I don't know how they mark them. I could be one of them.

Thank you, this was the kind of real world help I was hoping for here. Much appreciated.

I did not know they had done any 1903's, thank you.

The real safariman experience?
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8526344/1

am I missing something? You put something up for sale in the classified's that you by self admission don't already have? I would also go and look up at what a C&R license also gives ability to do. The legal advise was right on. I wonder of atf trolls these sites?

really not a bad idea, i have been on that forum for years, and know a bunch of the people there, they would enjoy the entertainment.

pulled it out of brophy's big book on the springfield, not mine.
As another poster said, these stopped production long before the date given. Remington made a few at the beginning of WWII, kind of interesting in they are so cruddy looking on the metal finish.
I was blowing coffee out of my nostrils when I read the original post.

actually i should clarify the above a little, early in the morning when i posted. Per Brophy, 291 RIFLES built in 1940, but 8601 extra recievers built in the same year. Also it does show production during the 30's.

He wasn't giving legal advice.

I did not realize that this site was/is your own personal brokerage house for your firearms business. When the deals are done who issues the receipts, such as all relevant sales receipts with permit numbers, and tax receipts with numbers for your business ? Does Rick get dragged into this because your playing your games on his site ?

Trolling for attention.

Who? Miss Lynn?

wow folks, I was looking for advice and information on a firearm that I did not know enough about to make a good judgement call. That was it. I got a bit of good intel here, and to those folks who offered it, MANY thanks to you all.

I will now go to the site's suggested, get more info on the gun as per a couple of helpful responders, and make a decision on the trade. Just like many others have done in this forum.

Have a great day everyone, I am off to go shoot some paper with RJM from here. Home is New Hampshire for him but he has been traveling about our great land and graced our home with his presence for a couple of days. Bob (RJM) had to ferry me about to a couple of Dr's appointments, one an emergency, so today I want to make sure he has fun. And, I am having one of my better days for pain control and energy. Time to go out and live and have some fun.

Blessings abundant to everyone,

MARK

you are right, he clearly stated that, but the advise was still right on.

Thanks for the compliments.

Unfortunately, it appears as though those words were wasted and have been completely ignored.

Yes

Pay him no attention ! He should be so lucky as to have a hot looking Troll like me trolling after him. Don't you agree ????

So if one was to pour Ice water on that trolls chest, would it's n.........

Ice water not necessary with this troll....

Pics?

springfields were not available in sufficient quanities during WWI which is why the model of 1917 was in more common use during that period. At the end of the war, meaning WWI, they continued making them in small quanities, then WWII hit. The garand was NOT available in sufficient quanities at the beginning, thus marines being armed with 1903's and 03A3's at that time in the early battles in the pacific. If i remember right 03A3 production was shut down in 1944, and it is much more likely to find a mint 03A3 than a 03. I have muzzle guaged a bunch of them and seen a number of 03A3's at less than 1 with an original barrel. Not so much with the 03. The exception being those made at the beginning of WWII.
The problem if it is a problem, is you really have to have the reference books and see the rifle for cartouches, stocks, parts and so on to know really what you got. Value could be all over the place. I have seen a first month production 03 reciever, with the rest of the rifle being reparted from various times including reparked. They didn't throw them away easily.

Although only a part of the initial attraction, this thread has reminded me of why I live with a natural red headed girl.

I am a military weapon addict. The words original, unmodified, never been fired, make one upchuck.
Having said that, they are around, but check the cmp website auction for what they go for.

Lots of unfired Italian military weapons available and they've only been dropped once...

ESV Proverbs 10:9

Proverbs 10:9(ESV)

9 Whoever walks in integrity walks securely,
but he who makes his ways crooked will be found out.



Somebody is going to get an ass skinning.. minus the bipod.

And here we go....

So sick. So sad that he must resort to running his ads in the Hunter's Campfire.