I wonder what caused the "whistling"?

Airflow through the super charger inlets in the wing roots is supposedly the cause of the whistling.

Mark in GA

Thanks. I was wondering that but was not sure.

What a cool plane.

Grew up watching Black Sheep Squadron, my favorite of all the WWII warbirds. P-51D a very close second.

Ditto

the Corsair is still an impressive warbird.

I was watching a you tube video on the history of the F4U and the last active duty Corsair was retired in France in 1964. I think, IIRC, the last active duty Corsair was retired in 1957 in this country and reserve was 1962. Not bad for an 1938 design. The video I was watching said that F4U's often tangled with jets in Korea and the jets didn't always come out on top.

with the national insignia on the wrong wing....on the right wing instead of the left....

silly Kiwis...

The Corsair was often referred to as the "Bent Wing Bird" due to it's "cranked" or inverted gull wing design. They were "cranked" to 1) permit a 90 degree joint to the circular fuselage (and thereby minimize drag), 2) permit shorter and more sturdy landing gear and, 3) (most importantly!) allow the very large diameter propeller needed to adsorb the 2600 hp. engine's power without striking the ground (not good!)..

Having worked/crawled about, lusted, and sat (after hours ) in the Corsair, two things come away, after never seeing these in person prior.

1) Wing design

2) Size of the platform - HUGE

Corsair & Mustang were 2 of hottest planes in that war....bar NONE!!!!!

Way cool video

Thanks

And the P38 was chopped liver?

Adolf Galland thought so.

So did Eric Brown...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-38_Lightning

We had found out that the Bf 109 and the Fw 190 could fight up to a Mach of 0.75, three-quarters the speed of sound. We checked the Lightning and it couldn't fly in combat faster than 0.68. So it was useless.

We told Doolittle that all it was good for was photo-reconnaissance and had to be withdrawn from escort duties. And the funny thing is that the Americans had great difficulty understanding this because the Lightning had the two top aces in the Far East."

One things for sure, the P-38 didn't shine in the ETO.

Birdwatcher

Not 'til they put air-breaks (5th edition?) on them anyway, to keep them from going out of control and inverted in a dive.

After that those Germain Fokkers were in trouble, and couldn't get away just by diving. In the early models the controls would lock up in a high speed dive, often causing the plane to crash, unless they were still high enough above the ground that they could stall out on the air-loop and regain control.

As I understand it...

I thought one main reason for those Corsair pivoting wings were for aircraft carrier use, making them easier to store below and on deck.

Me too! Was a cool show with cool planes and badazz pilots.

actors

The Corsair may have been the best air-air Fighter and Fighter-Bomber of WW2. A reasonable argument could be made for it

The P-38 didn't shine flying out of England. But in the Pacific the AAF wanted every one they could get

keep in mind though they ordered them earlier they got both the P-38's and the p-51's at about the same time, with in a few months of each other anyway...granted it took a bit before they put the bigger engine in the Mustang it didnt take them that long....had they got the P38 earlier they may have been happier with it given its long legs compared to the other planes on order in '39 but by 41/42 it was less of an issue with the 51 around

Here's a comprehensive account of the P-38 in Europe. When I was a kid I thought all you had to do was climb in and fly. Who knew?

http://www.ausairpower.net/P-38-Analysis.html

To: Commanding General, VIII Fighter Command, APO 637, U.S. Army.

1. The following observations are being put in writing by the undersigned at the request of the Commanding General, VII FC. They are intended purely as constructive criticism and are intended in any way to "low rate" our present equipment.

2. After flying the P-38 for a little over one hundred hours on combat missions it is my belief that the airplane, as it stands now, is too complicated for the 'average' pilot. I want to put strong emphasis on the word 'average, taking full consideration just how little combat training our pilots have before going on as operational status.

3. As a typical case to demonstrate my point, let us assume that we have a pilot fresh out of flying school with about a total of twenty-five hours in a P-38, starting out on a combat mission. He is on a deep ramrod, penetration and target support to maximum endurance. He is cruising along with his power set at maximum economy. He is pulling 31" Hg and 2100 RPM. He is auto lean and running on external tanks. His gun heater is off to relieve the load on his generator, which frequently gives out (under sustained heavy load). His sight is off to save burning out the bulb. His combat switch may or may not be on. Flying along in this condition, he suddenly gets "bounced", what to do flashes through his mind. He must turn, he must increase power and get rid of those external tanks and get on his main. So, he reaches down and turns two stiff, difficult gas switches {valves} to main - turns on his drop tank switches, presses his release button, puts the mixture to auto rich (two separate and clumsy operations), increases his RPM, increases his manifold pressure, turns on his gun heater switch (which he must feel for and cannot possibly see), turns on his combat switch and he is ready to fight. At this point, he has probably been shot down or he has done one of several things wrong. Most common error is to push the throttles wide open before increasing RPM. This causes detonation and subsequent engine failure. Or, he forgets to switch back to auto rich, and gets excessive cylinder head temperature with subsequent engine failure.

4. In my limited experience with a P-38 group, we have lost as least four (4) pilots, who when bounced, took no immediate evasive action. The logical assumption is that they were so busy in the cockpit, trying to get organized that they were shot down before they could get going.

5. The question that arises is, what are you going to do about it? It is standard procedure for the group leader to call, five minutes before R/V and tell all the pilots to "prepare for trouble". This is the signal for everyone to get into auto rich, turn drop tank switches on, gun heaters on, combat and sight switches on and to increase RPM and manifold pressure to maximum cruise. This procedure, however, does not help the pilot who is bounced on the way in and who is trying to conserve his gasoline and equipment for the escort job ahead.

6. What is the answer to these difficulties? During the past several weeks we have been visited at this station time and time again by Lockheed representatives, Allison representatives and high ranking Army personnel connected with these two companies. They all ask about our troubles and then proceed to tell us about the marvelous mechanisms that they have devised to overcome these troubles that the Air Force has turned down as "unnecessary". Chief among these is a unit power control, incorporating an automatic manifold pressure regulator, which will control power, RPM and mixture by use of a single lever. It is obvious that there is a crying need for a device like that in combat.

7. It is easy to understand why test pilots, who have never been in combat, cannot readily appreciate what each split second means when a "bounce" occurs. Every last motion when you get bounced is just another nail in your coffin. Any device which would eliminate any of the enumerated above, are obviously very necessary to make the P-38 a really effective combat airplane.

8. It is also felt that that much could done to simplify the gas switching system in this airplane. The switches {valve selector handles} are all in awkward positions and extremely hard to turn. The toggle switches for outboard tanks are almost impossible to operate with gloves on.

9. My personal feeling about this airplane is that it is a fine piece of equipment, and if properly handled, takes a back seat for nothing that the enemy can produce. But it does need simplifying to bring it within the capabilities of the 'average' pilot. I believe that pilots like Colonel Ben Kelsey and Colonel Cass Huff are among the finest pilots in the world today. But I also believe that it is difficult for men like them to place their thinking and ability on the level of a youngster with a bare 25 hours in the airplane, going into his first combat. That is the sort of thinking that will have to be done, in my opinion, to make the P-38 a first-class all around fighting airplane.

...and getting frostbite at 60 below...


"These new pilots made their attempts to go to altitude. This is what the curriculum called for and they gave it their best, but those early airplanes, the way they were set up, just wouldn't make it. There were disastrous incidents of ignition breakdown because of high-tension leakage. The oxygen systems were woefully inadequate. This is what they put into the airplane and the pilot in the cockpit was stuck with he had. It just wouldn't do the job. No one liked 30,000 feet anyway. There had been no training for it. There had never been any need for it. It was too cold and the windows frosted up."

"All this piled up on the 8th Air Force pilots, but there they were at 30,000 feet plus and sixty below zero. It was miserable."

"Then things really started to come apart. Now, suddenly, turbochargers were running away. They were blowing up engines on the basis of one engine blow up every seven hours. Intercoolers were separating the lead from the fuel and the result was lowered octane. Hands and feet were freezing; pilots were calling their airplanes airborne ice wagons and they were right. Frost on the windows got thicker than ever. Most disgusting of all was the leisurely way the German fighters made their get-aways straight down."

"Another problem seldom mentioned was the single generator problem. If a generator was lost or a low battery the Curtis Electric prop would lose the Dynamic Brake and go to extreme Low Pitch. This was called a RUN AWAY. It could happen on Take Off with a low battery. Since you couldn't feather it set up a lot of drag making it difficult to make it around to land. The Killer situation was to lose the Generator or lose the engine with the Generator on it while 2 or 3hrs into Germany. Procedure was to SET the Props then turn off all electrical power. Then momentarily turn it back on to reset the props as needed. Being sure everything electrical was also turned off -- No Radios. The forgotten thing was you were at altitude and the OAT was -60degrees and the little old battery was cold soaked. Hence, dead as a dog. Result, with a lot of altitude you have less than an hour with one or two props in RUNAWAY.

I have no statistics to back me up on this, but believe, that more P-38s were lost from this than any other factor including combat. This simple problem did not receive attention until April, '44."

Adolf Galland was a loser, much like der Fuhrer.

The P38 racked up the highest number of kills in the Pacific of any fighter.

Then there is the F8 Bearcat. Shame it was late on the scene.

While I'm at it, there was another one, the P47 Thunderbolt. More chopped liver I guess.

Had a friend long passed that had the pleasure (?) of flying both the 38 and 47 in Yurp back in the day. He preferred the Jug, saying the rather large powerplant was far better at moving trees out of the way during unscheduled landings in forested areas. His opinion was one based on experience. He was not too fond of German prison cuisine.

Yamamoto thought the 38 was a POS too.

My point, if any, there is no such thing as an ultimate combat fighter. Some have more eye appeal certainly, but they all had strengths and weaknesses. The sum of their strengths and the wisdom to deploy them properly was key to the favorable conclusion to WW2.

Liquid cooling of the powerplant in the Mustang was one of it's weaknesses though it lent itself to great streamlining. Least little leak from a ding in the radiator meant "mission terminated".



Winners and losers.....

I've researched these numbers for yrs and they do vary slightly but overall are close enuff for comparison.

The F6F shined the last two yrs of the war and racked up its impressive numbers mostly from the decks of our carrier fleet against a dwindling Japanese pilot pool..

Single theater of OPS,#1 would be the
F6F Hellcat, with 5,168 kills in the Pacific Theater of Operations. Next would be the P-51 Mustang with 4,950 kills in the European Theater of Operations.

For the entire war combined, in all theaters, it would be the P-51 Mustang with 5,954 kills in ETO, MTO, PTO, and CBI all combined, followed by the Hellcat with 5,168 in PTO and ETO.

These numbers come from a 1945-1946 report compiled by the US Navy for the Hellcat and the Air Force Historical Society for the P-51. The Hellcat and Mustang are neck in neck for the title.

#3 on the kill list goes to the P-38, with 3,785 in all Theaters of operation combined. The theater of operations with the most enemy aircraft shot down was the PTO, with 12,666 enemy aircraft shot down.

F4U numbers although impressive were only around 2150 plus or minus.

These totals also include non air to air engagements with bombers,float planes and static ground attack kills.

Stand corrected Woody. The 38 was high scorer for AAF aircraft in the PTO, not overall.

I just finished reading Robin Olds' autobiography, Fighter Pilot. Olds loved the P38 and had several victories in it in Europe before it was replaced by the P51, which he considered a far superior fighter. He didn't get too technical about it, but he did touch on the topic of how tricky the P38 was to fly and fight in.

That show will be coming on again soon on ME TV
I've been seeing the ads for about a week or so

+1 so badass.

One can only be glad the Luftwaffe didn't have more losers like that. 705 combat missions, most of them over France, England and the Channel against the RAF, shot down four times (twice in the same day), 104 victories. Whatever else he was the guy walked the walk.

He was up to 96 victories when he was grounded and promoted to General at the end of '41, and flew only unathorized missions against American bombers in '42,'43 and '44. Seven of the remaining eight official victories came after he was allowed to form the Me 262 jet unit in early 1945.



??

The P-38 over Europe likely killed more P-38 pilots than the Germans did.

The P-47 however, was one of the war's success stories.

Birdwatcher

They lost. It is not a difficult thing to accept.

Wanaka New Zealand, nice place to view warbirds. I've got to wonder, why so many there?

Edit: Oops, wrong Island. Hood Aerodrome, Masterton NZ

This is all true... The Hellcat carried to load as a USN CV fighter plane. The Corsair was not Carrier certified by the USN. The USMC used them from air strips. The Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm taught us how to safely land the Corsair on a CV. But that was late in the Pacific war for the USN. The Corsair did well flying combat off Royal Navy CV's just as soon as they bought them.

When I was around 10 years old a Corsair made a stop at my hometown airstrip. It was very impressive just sitting there. Watching it fire up and warm would make any kid a fan of those radial engines. The pilot told us to stick around as he was going to show us why the Corsair was called Whistling Death. He did a low pass I will never, ever forget. Yes it definitely whistled.....

WW II pilot finally sees his own crash.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ie3SrjLlcUY

A recent post we all enjoyed.....watch the entire thing again or zip to 4:29 to hear his experiences with the P-38/F5.

Every aircraft has its initial issues.

When I was going to college Black Sheep was in its hayday. Pappy Boyington came to our college and gave a lecture on the show and the F4U and to tell some war time stories. He also said that those planes were suppose to fly carrier but they had so much torque that if you were not a good pilot that those planes would under full throttle on take off would roll over on take off so they tried to land base them to give them more runway to take off. Don't know if that is gospel but those were the stories he told.

Just out of curiosity I google up Galland's tally....

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/gallanda.html

53 Spitfires, 31 Hurricanes.

Eighty-six of his ninety-six victories by the end of 1941 being against RAF fighters, including five aces, three fatally shot down, one seriously burned and out of further combat. The fifth was Al Deere, who would himself survive the war with 32 victories.

When Hitler grounded Galland he did us a real favor.

That early in the war at least there seems to have been considerable chivalry between opposing pilots, both in Europe and in North Africa, Galland refusing to shoot aircrew in parachutes and being instrumental in obtaining new wooden legs for Douglas Bader.

Ya he was on the wrong side fighting for an evil cause but a remarkable pilot nonetheless.

Birdwatcher

Growing up in the 60s, my best friends father had been a WW 2 fighter pilot with experience in multiple different planes, both theaters.
His favorite plane, bar none was the P-47.
"Why" we asked ?

Two reasons, he answered.

#1 A thick sheet of steel armor right behind the pilots seat, thick enough to stop a 8mm machine gun bullet.


#2 The very heavy and powerful P-47 could out dive just about anything, giving the pilot a sure escape from a bad situation.

Thank you.

Good stuff...

Holy shizizzle.....

Erich Rudorfer.....

1,000+ missions, 224 victories, shot down 16 times, finished the war with 12 victories in a Me 262.

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/rudorffer.html

Read...The Hell Hawks!

The USNavy fliers were taught to make a straight on final approach with a signal man guiding him in, problem was with that huge motor the F4U fliers couldn't see the deck or the signal man so the Navy wouldn't approve the plane for carrier operation. It was the Brits that taught the USN to make a constantly curved approach keeping the carrier in sight. The USN did operate the F4U after that.

I agree with with assessment... I'm not sure how many P-47's were in the Pacific. I know the Mexican Air Force flew them in the Phillipines. Yes, the Mexican Air Force fought in WW2

Just for conversation, I recently got to chat with a fella who flys some amazing old warbirds, including a Zero and a P51.

His favorite plane to fly?

The Bearcat.

Imagine flying your whole mission, knowing you still had that ordeal coming up when you were done

The first guy to try that deserves a medal, I mean it ain't like they could eject if things went south.

Birdwatcher

A not so great landing aboard my Dad's boat CV11 Intrepid..Pop said carrier trials were ugly but the only saving grace for screwed up approaches was all the extra power the big Wasp had on demand to successfully abort what would have been a disaster in a lesser power plant..Torque rolls were common early on especially when the 4 blades were added..quote from one of the Intrepid pilots,"The Hog Nose is a great aircraft but it'll kill ya in a NY minute"

i do believe there is a shop rebuilding the old warbirds there.....know alot of the 'birds found here there and everywhere wind up in NZ to be brought back to flying condition before heading off to other parts of the world....

a number of pilots in the Pacific Theater were saved a swim due to that second engine.....it had its quirks but given it did ok to great at everything thrown at it EXCEPT the one thing it was designed for cause Germany never made any high altitude bombers its a hell of a plane....it was given a wide variety of jobs to due over its life in WWII

Couple of my dad's pics from CVE 76

Here's a site with some amazing WW2 stats;

Link

And two very important statements;

(1) No matter how one looks at it, these are incredible statistics. Aside from the figures on aircraft, consider this statement from the article: On average 6600 American service men died per MONTH, during WWII (about 220 a day). Most Americans who were not adults during WWII have no understanding of the magnitude of it. This listing of some of the aircraft facts gives a bit of insight to it.

(2) The US civilian population maintained a dedicated effort for four years, many working long hours seven days per week and often also volunteering for other work. WWII was the largest human effort in history.

Phil

With the Pentagon controlling press releases like they did in WW II,i do not think the average American knew what the daily troop loses were. Iwo Jima is a prime example.

And it cost more to assemble a C-47 Gooney Bird than a P-51 Mustang or a P-47 Jug???????

The 8th Air Force was told by the RAF that the P-38 was in their opinion, useless. Remember that the RAF had the DeHavilland Mosquito. That was tough competition for the P-38 at high altitude and maneuverability. Both aircraft are classics. But in different hemispheres.

Yes Mexico had a 25 plane P-47D squadron. They had no record of combat wins or losses. Twelve planes were lost to accidents.

Mexico and several South American nations only joined us when it was evident the NAZIs would lose.

IIRC the Mexican AF were primarily for CAS and bombing Japanese in the Phillipines. The Army held out there until their Emperor ordered the surrender.

I have read that Mexican P-47s also did raids onto what is now Taiwan.

The Brazilians also used P-47s over Italy, IIRC.

Brazil got in earlier than other SA countries. Had a Division of ground troops in Italy.

The famous Brazilian Samba Squads. The Germans always knew when they faced the Brazilians due to the distinctive sound of the Brazilian Model 27 machine gun - boom chicka boom, chicka boom boom boom.

LOL

John

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Expeditionary_Force

Escuadron 201 the Aztec Eagles. http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=28282

Might have bombed the base I was at on Taiwan. It was just a dirt strip, but had been a Japanese airfield.

Paul

The Mexicans didn't have many fond memories of training in Texas. They said that they were treated like Black people were back then