Its on pay cable - like Showtime or HBO so I realize there are limited viewers.

however, if you get a chance, its worth watching - well done, although be prepared to see people shot and die - to make matters worse, some of the victims were children.

But I think there is alot to learn from watching that on multiple levels.

Various mall surveillance cameras catch the entire event as it unfolds.

Kenyan police/swat are incompetent and poorly trained. Sat around for 3 hours arguing with each other about what to do (with all their guys in full body armor) while these Somali's are executing people inside. After 40 hours of negotiating, they just decide to blow the place up.

No. But I will. Thanks. It's on HB0, BTW.

I DVRed it last night and will probably watch tonight. Thanks for the heads up.

And it would be so easy for ISIS to do, right here.

That's what happens when you don't have SWAT teams trained and equipped to clear buildings.




Travis

Send TRH and Rovering with Derby as their back-up. They would do the underdog thing and save the day.

You mean we don't live in a Utopia where a threat is met with thousands of armed citizens, all trained and packing, who are able to simultaneously shoot a ne'er-do-well with such precision, that over penetrating bullets simply strike each other and congeal with the bad guy, into a macabre lead and copper statue, that is carted outside as a reminder to future thugs?

Hopefully they don't use suppressors. Those things are loud as hell.




Travis

Long arms and armor are not needed. I read that here.



Travis

They better pick a mall in a demoncrap controlled city, though I'd like to see them pick one in a CCW "shall issue" state.

FIXED IT.

I was thinking about that at lunch

These guys had no exit strategy, they went into that mall with the intent of killing as many people as they could until they were killed.

it wasn't a jewelry heist where they wanted hostages or would not hurt you if you stayed out of their way.

I wonder what the typical response time of a swat team is to a mall on the outskirts of a city.

The actual shooting rampage lasted 3 hours from the first death to the last, but I suspect they killed most of the people within the first 20 minutes.

Four guys with AKs and no expectation of survival can do a lot of killing in the first 5 minutes.

I wouldn't like to be the shopper taking them on by myself with a pistol.

at one point plain clothes policemen and a couple of civilians went in there , 1 with an AK and the rest with handguns.

The AK guy was shot immediately and 1 guy with a hand gun shot a terrorist in the leg - he didn't even fall down and kept shooting back.

The guys with handguns ended up throwing tear gas to keep the terrorist at bay but didn't kill a single one.

This was after the terrorist had already shot up the place and were just picking off people hiding one by one.

It's almost as though you would need some sort of special weapons or tactics to deal with this type of threat.

Although, I've always said a totally armed society is the safest society.



Travis

like teleportation or psychic powers?

otherwise by the time you got there in the Swat MRAP, 30 people will already be dead.

prevention, not reaction will only save many lives in this situation.

Yeah. You're right.

How you gonna prevent it?



Travis

if I were in charge, I'd start with give I.C.E. broad powers to chase out any and all people here illegally

then profile the [bleep] out of anyone coming over here that has ties to any muslim nation with terrorist activities.


We can't stop 14 year olds from sneaking into this country, much less a bunch of men intent on shooting up a mall or sporting event.

unfortunately, neither democrats, republicans or libertarians are unified on enforcing immigration laws and cleaning out this country of people living in the shadows

True enough,...but if all of them commie liberal Jews who inhabit America will stop threading all of those bastards into our society, it'll never become an issue.

They've got a pretty good toehold in Congress,...and don't even get me talking about the media.

,...so I'm not going to be holding my breath waiting for America to do what's right.

There's *way* too much wrong with the people who are running it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewcong113.html

The way I see it, you let your totally armed populace fight it out, suspect that breast feeding mom's can handle light weapons while junior is latched on.

If there are any bad guys left, the cops can march in formation like redcoats till the bad guys are out of ammo and food.

Then lay siege.

Works every time.

Good luck with that.

When you're drafting your SOP, be sure include the unpredictable. i.e. Charles Whitman.

I predict your counter-terrorist handbook is going to become the proverbial Bible within the law enforcement community.



Travis

Whitman was killed by guy with no armor and a shotgun.

Would he have died faster if the guy had an MRAP?

After 16 people died.

Looking forward to your handbook. Gonna be a best seller, I'm sure.



Travis

Probably not.

You could make that Chapter 1. "Armor serves no purpose when involved in force on force scenarios."



Travis

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make


attempting to prevent this is a waste of time?

Part of what put an end to Whitman and kept more from being killed were ordinary citizens who returned fire on him and kept him pinned down.

You can't prevent nut cases from doing crazy things. You can be prepared to deal with them. That starts with the individual taking responsibility for themselves and those around them. That includes the Second Amendment and a full exercise thereof. It also includes well trained, well equipped, properly utilized law enforcement.

There is no silver bullet.

Boy, that's shocking.



Travis

Some people have a hard time with that.



Travis

ok.... well, I tried

You're doing great. Stay strong.



Travis

American SWAT teams need to study and prepare for this. Right after they study and prepare for BESLAN

If you ain't prepared for Belsan, you ain't SWAT.

The Russians have never been known for their finesse in dealing with terrorist attacks.

A few predictions...

1. The U.S is not and will not be prepared to deal with a Kenyan mall situation until after it happens, when there will be much hand-wringing, second-guessing and gnashing of teeth, mostly to no avail other than to wake up the populace, if only temporarily.
2. It likely won't happen in a state with a heavily armed population, but will go down in a gun-free zone to ensure maximum casualties.
3. A lot of politicians will lose their jobs.
4. A witch hunt and house cleaning will occur within the intel community.
5. We will bomb the living chit out of somebody, somewhere, until we're once again distracted by the peddled pablum of popular culture.
6. We won't be able to stay distracted, however, because we are in a mostly unrecognized (by the public) new kind of long-term struggle, and the next big attack will likely just be the beginning.

Ummm... Are you saying they don't?



Travis

Americans have handled the death of thousands quite well.

Sadly.



Travis

I think some teams do, and some teams don't, and there is a world of difference between the two.

Post Columbine we've drastically improved the scenario awareness of our first responders, but I think there are alot of departments out there ready for Columbine, because it happened here, but not Beslan, because it happened "over there" and their communities are not willing to admit we live in a dangerous world that required the type a training necessary for that scenario.

I finally watched this last night. I gotta say what an incompetent bunch of boobs the police and military were. The plain clothed cops that defied orders and went in had balls, though.

One thing I took away was you need to do everything you can to make your own escape.

I feel perfectly fine going to the local mall here in middle of nowhere Ohio

but if I lived in Kenya or any part of Africa, South America, Central America, you get the idea

you're not going to catch me anywhere unarmed - or my wife and children going to large public places without me - especially as an American.

Too many wannabe terrorist in these lax security countries looking to make a name for themselves.