Let's go people, get focused and get to work!
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/encore/2014/09/18/dismal-fed-data-on-retirement-saving/
http:/
Boomers ain't the smartest group of people I've come across.
Travis
Travis
hard to help too, as they diagnose their own problems or completely ignore them.
I would love to meet with 4 of them a day and help them get turned around but it's a crapshoot
I would love to meet with 4 of them a day and help them get turned around but it's a crapshoot
I'm a boomer and I'm set. My kids might suffer, but that's on them.
I'm betting alot of the over 55 group cashed out in fear at the 2008 market low, so they "wouldn't lose it all", and promptly missed the bull market from then til now.
They don't care. They have voted in nothing but socialists to take care of their spoiled azzes since Day One.
Yes, there are some conservative "boomers", but the majority are outright socialists. The "greatest generation" (and I HATE that moniker, because they were not) gave us the worst.
Yes, there are some conservative "boomers", but the majority are outright socialists. The "greatest generation" (and I HATE that moniker, because they were not) gave us the worst.
4ager, I'm a "boomer" and I don't know a single soul my age who is an outright socialist. Perhaps you missed something, but it was my generation that elected Reagan.
As to the OP, my wife and I have been building our nestegg since 1972. If the rating scale is correct, we are solidly in the topmost 5% of net worth.
As to the OP, my wife and I have been building our nestegg since 1972. If the rating scale is correct, we are solidly in the topmost 5% of net worth.
Why invest in a retirement account? I have Social Security.
(Now where's that fat, dumb and happy icon?
)
(Now where's that fat, dumb and happy icon?
)
Most people in most generations are stupid, lazy and don't have sufficient retirement investments.
True, but there are a LOT of "boomers" and not a lot of the rest of us working to support them.
Too many with the attitude of "well, I might die early". Well, that's all fine and dandy until you don't die. Statistically, you won't die before retirement.
Saving should happen early in life. You should have at least 100k in investments before the age of 35. You should add to it monthly, and let compounding interest do what it does.
Saving should happen early in life. You should have at least 100k in investments before the age of 35. You should add to it monthly, and let compounding interest do what it does.
I am amazed that so many people that have the means (income) to save and invest, don't. This is also frightening as the US will probably not let people starve in the US and that means the US tax payer (us) will be paying up in the form of new or increased taxes!
I find it interesting that the story is about research from the Federal Reserve. The Fed keeping interest rates at near zero for a 6 plus years is really helping those retirement investments. Like Rocky, we have been saving and investing for decades and will be fine. In addition, we operated on the presumption that SS would be gone by the time we were eligible. That will be a bonus. I also think the focus on IRA's and 401Ks overlooks the fact that some have as much invested in taxable financial assets. We made a decision many years ago to hedge our bets and split our retirement funding between IRA's and after tax investing. We knew we would lose some tax shielded appreciation, but balanced that off against having some withdrawals that are not ordinary income. We just wish we could have invested more in Roth IRAs.
Trav, the best part of being a boomer is having you pay my social security while I go wolf hunting in Idaho next week. Thank you very much. The reality is that my gen fugged things up compared to our parents. I hope you guys learned from our mistakes.
P.S. It was those other guys that screwed up, I was awesome.
mike r
P.S. It was those other guys that screwed up, I was awesome.
mike r
Lets just run some realistic math.
Start working at the age of 16. Save 2k a year till 23. Pay your way through college too.
That gives you a net worth of 12k. Not much, but a start.
Get a job, get married, have kids, buy a house, etc. Still manage to save and average of 7k a year during these years. Very reasonable to do. You have it in a variety of bond/muni funds averaging 6% a year.
By the time you hit 35, you have a nice 149k tucked away. Sure you pay taxes on it. You pay taxes on that dividend income.
Now, you have 30 years until retirement. You invest in a variety of index, mutual funds, and closed end mutual funds. You earn an average of 7% a year. Easy to do. You reinvest all dividends.
Now you add just 10k a year, for the next 30 years. That's it. You can live pretty high on the hog only saving 10k a year. You ride the markets up and down, you don't touch it, don't panic, and don't listen to a bunch of fools on the internet.
By the time you hit 65, you have a total of 2.3 million in investments.
Retire. Put in good income funds, making an average of 7%.
That would give you an annual income of 161k, or 13.4k a month. (taxed of course) Of course you'll be debt free. Sun City AZ and other retirement communities are full of people who live on income fund dividends. They figured it out! That's how they do it. Principle stays the same. People who don't figure out it retire in a medicaid retirement home.
Now, why don't they teach how easy that is in schools? Nothing about it is very hard. It's not hard to save money.
Start working at the age of 16. Save 2k a year till 23. Pay your way through college too.
That gives you a net worth of 12k. Not much, but a start.
Get a job, get married, have kids, buy a house, etc. Still manage to save and average of 7k a year during these years. Very reasonable to do. You have it in a variety of bond/muni funds averaging 6% a year.
By the time you hit 35, you have a nice 149k tucked away. Sure you pay taxes on it. You pay taxes on that dividend income.
Now, you have 30 years until retirement. You invest in a variety of index, mutual funds, and closed end mutual funds. You earn an average of 7% a year. Easy to do. You reinvest all dividends.
Now you add just 10k a year, for the next 30 years. That's it. You can live pretty high on the hog only saving 10k a year. You ride the markets up and down, you don't touch it, don't panic, and don't listen to a bunch of fools on the internet.
By the time you hit 65, you have a total of 2.3 million in investments.
Retire. Put in good income funds, making an average of 7%.
That would give you an annual income of 161k, or 13.4k a month. (taxed of course) Of course you'll be debt free. Sun City AZ and other retirement communities are full of people who live on income fund dividends. They figured it out! That's how they do it. Principle stays the same. People who don't figure out it retire in a medicaid retirement home.
Now, why don't they teach how easy that is in schools? Nothing about it is very hard. It's not hard to save money.
Originally Posted by 4ager
They don't care. They have voted in nothing but socialists to take care of their spoiled azzes since Day One.
Yes, there are some conservative "boomers", but the majority are outright socialists. The "greatest generation" (and I HATE that moniker, because they were not) gave us the worst.
Yes, there are some conservative "boomers", but the majority are outright socialists. The "greatest generation" (and I HATE that moniker, because they were not) gave us the worst.
YES! amen brother! they are the ones who put us right where we are today. they can lay the blame where they want, but it sits square on their shoulders.
Originally Posted by Calvin
Lets just run some realistic math.
Start working at the age of 16. Save 2k a year till 23. Pay your way through college too.
That gives you a net worth of 12k. Not much, but a start.
Get a job, get married, have kids, buy a house, etc. Still manage to save and average of 7k a year during these years. Very reasonable to do. You have it in a variety of bond/muni funds averaging 6% a year.
By the time you hit 35, you have a nice 149k tucked away. Sure you pay taxes on it. You pay taxes on that dividend income.
Now, you have 30 years until retirement. You invest in a variety of index, mutual funds, and closed end mutual funds. You earn an average of 7% a year. Easy to do. You reinvest all dividends.
Now you add just 10k a year, for the next 30 years. That's it. You can live pretty high on the hog only saving 10k a year. You ride the markets up and down, you don't touch it, don't panic, and don't listen to a bunch of fools on the internet.
By the time you hit 65, you have a total of 2.3 million in investments.
Retire. Put in good income funds, making an average of 7%.
That would give you an annual income of 161k, or 13.4k a month. (taxed of course) Of course you'll be debt free. Sun City AZ and other retirement communities are full of people who live on income fund dividends. They figured it out! That's how they do it. Principle stays the same. People who don't figure out it retire in a medicaid retirement home.
Now, why don't they teach how easy that is in schools? Nothing about it is very hard. It's not hard to save money.
Start working at the age of 16. Save 2k a year till 23. Pay your way through college too.
That gives you a net worth of 12k. Not much, but a start.
Get a job, get married, have kids, buy a house, etc. Still manage to save and average of 7k a year during these years. Very reasonable to do. You have it in a variety of bond/muni funds averaging 6% a year.
By the time you hit 35, you have a nice 149k tucked away. Sure you pay taxes on it. You pay taxes on that dividend income.
Now, you have 30 years until retirement. You invest in a variety of index, mutual funds, and closed end mutual funds. You earn an average of 7% a year. Easy to do. You reinvest all dividends.
Now you add just 10k a year, for the next 30 years. That's it. You can live pretty high on the hog only saving 10k a year. You ride the markets up and down, you don't touch it, don't panic, and don't listen to a bunch of fools on the internet.
By the time you hit 65, you have a total of 2.3 million in investments.
Retire. Put in good income funds, making an average of 7%.
That would give you an annual income of 161k, or 13.4k a month. (taxed of course) Of course you'll be debt free. Sun City AZ and other retirement communities are full of people who live on income fund dividends. They figured it out! That's how they do it. Principle stays the same. People who don't figure out it retire in a medicaid retirement home.
Now, why don't they teach how easy that is in schools? Nothing about it is very hard. It's not hard to save money.
everything is easy to say..... my generation will never see SS, yet we will pay into it our whole lives. the job market sucks and there is virtually no growth in this economy. in 30 years everything you just said will be a bigger pipe dream than it is now. we face higher taxes and a weaker dollar. real estate is high compared to past decades. every retiring boomer out there wants to buy 10-40 acres to get away from all the other people. and it will only get worse. I would like to live in your world though! sounds peachy!
People back in the 60's and 70's said the same thing. Those who made excuses are now rotting in a crappy medicaid/medicare nursing home.
Sure, you could be right.. but it'll really suck if you are wrong.
BTW, you could easily do what I described above on less than a 60k salary.
Sure, you could be right.. but it'll really suck if you are wrong.
BTW, you could easily do what I described above on less than a 60k salary.
Says the guy that waited till his 30's to get laid and ain't been hit by the pavement yet.
I have a feeling that there will be a great cry from those that didn't save to take from those who were 'lucky enough' to have saved.
I've fathered 2 children, have a solid marriage, have a job I love, and I live exactly where I want to live. Tell me again how much better your life choices has made your life? Why exactly should you be the standard in judging anything or why should anybody aspire to be like you?
I've always found Boomers very self-absorbed, short-sighted, and WAY behind on their financial knowledge as it relates to a secure future. They are socialist at heart--because they still believe in the goodness of gov't.
Originally Posted by Steve
I have a feeling that there will be a great cry from those that didn't save to take from those who were 'lucky enough' to have saved.
They'll go after investment income in the form of a huge tax hike. That's my prediction. Remember when they were up in arms when they figured out Romney's tax rate?
Saving $7K a year is "very realistic" for everyone in their early 20s? Gimme a break.
Age 24-35. Yes. I know guys who had 250k by the time they hit 30. The exception though, not the rule. It's all about the choices you make. That's basically a new truck payment, iphone bill, and cable tv.
Or, frankly, the choices you have.
As long as I got credit, the world is my oyster. He who dies with the most toys (that he hasn't paid for) wins.
It's not ALL about the choices you make. It's also about what life happens to throw at you.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
The ongoing 2008 recession is being hidden by a QE mentality. The market is doing well despite 92M Americans out of work and a job participation rate of 62.8%.
The Fed is trying to hold off the inevitable - an increase in the federal funds rate.
Yellen said yesterday they will most likely hold off until '17. The market likes their "sugar daddy". At some point the fed must face reality and pay for their "party".
That is when the excrement will hit the fan and inflation becomes the new normal.
The next generation is really going to get screwed - someone is going to have to pay for all of this. Just think, at the present $17T debt, for a 3% interest rate, that is $510B just on the interest alone. When that kicks into high gear, a recession will look good.
Elections matter.
The Fed is trying to hold off the inevitable - an increase in the federal funds rate.
Yellen said yesterday they will most likely hold off until '17. The market likes their "sugar daddy". At some point the fed must face reality and pay for their "party".
That is when the excrement will hit the fan and inflation becomes the new normal.
The next generation is really going to get screwed - someone is going to have to pay for all of this. Just think, at the present $17T debt, for a 3% interest rate, that is $510B just on the interest alone. When that kicks into high gear, a recession will look good.
Elections matter.
Originally Posted by Steve
I have a feeling that there will be a great cry from those that didn't save to take from those who were 'lucky enough' to have saved.
I agree. In fact, there is a constant cry already from all the Marxist Socialist Democrats in Washington, D.C., State houses, etc., that the "greedy haves" are just not paying their "share" so the "poor little have-nots" can live well.
It is going to continue to accelerate until the Dear Leader and his D.C. Comrades pass laws confiscating wealth from those who have worked hard and saved.
L.W.
I'd say its very realistic......just not very common.
also, there is a calculator that shows how you can lose money and AVERAGE 15 percent. got lots of ups and downs in the market. money is not math and math is not money.
inflation, obsolescence, technological advances, government rule changes, health, etc all can and will eat away at money and your math doesn't account for them.
what I tell clients is build 6 months to a year of emergency funds, buy an umbrella policy to protect savings from lawsuits, have the correct type and amount of life insurance, disability coverage, get out of debt, and start saving responsibly- depends on their suitability and stomach for losses and gains.
certain things depend on income- you can make too much for a Roth, etc.
it's a balancing act but all you can do is plan wisely and live within your means.
inflation, obsolescence, technological advances, government rule changes, health, etc all can and will eat away at money and your math doesn't account for them.
what I tell clients is build 6 months to a year of emergency funds, buy an umbrella policy to protect savings from lawsuits, have the correct type and amount of life insurance, disability coverage, get out of debt, and start saving responsibly- depends on their suitability and stomach for losses and gains.
certain things depend on income- you can make too much for a Roth, etc.
it's a balancing act but all you can do is plan wisely and live within your means.
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
It's not ALL about the choices you make. It's also about what life happens to throw at you.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
It must be nice to live somewhere where natural disasters, disease and bad luck don't matter.
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
It's not ALL about the choices you make. It's also about what life happens to throw at you.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
I understand that. But, saving doesn't happen by accident, and retirement savings must be intentional and disciplined. Around $580 a month (savings) is very realistic for a person working a full time. Notice I said "average". If you have a lean year, make up for it the next year.
As you can see by the title of the thread, many people didn't have the discipline to delay gratification and to save and invest. THE most critical time to save/invest for retirement is your 20's. Compounding interest says so.
Sorry I ruffled your feathers.
Originally Posted by Leanwolf
Originally Posted by Steve
I have a feeling that there will be a great cry from those that didn't save to take from those who were 'lucky enough' to have saved.
I agree. In fact, there is a constant cry already from all the Marxist Socialist Democrats in Washington, D.C., State houses, etc., that the "greedy haves" are just not paying their "share" so the "poor little have-nots" can live well.
It is going to continue to accelerate until the Dear Leader and his D.C. Comrades pass laws confiscating wealth from those who have worked hard and saved.
L.W.
Maybe they will confiscate Calvin's savings and save the country?
Bet he will sing a different tune when that happens?
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
It's not ALL about the choices you make. It's also about what life happens to throw at you.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
I understand that. But, saving doesn't happen by accident, and retirement savings must be intentional and disciplined. Around $580 a month (savings) is very realistic for a person working a full time. Notice I said "average". If you have a lean year, make up for it the next year.
As you can see by the title of the thread, many people didn't have the discipline to delay gratification and to save and invest. THE most critical time to save/invest for retirement is your 20's. Compounding interest says so.
Sorry I ruffled your feathers.
You didn't ruffle his feathers. He is just frustrated by the things you don't know.
Originally Posted by bigwhoop
The ongoing 2008 recession is being hidden by a QE mentality. The market is doing well despite 92M Americans out of work and a job participation rate of 62.8%.
The Fed is trying to hold off the inevitable - an increase in the federal funds rate.
Yellen said yesterday they will most likely hold off until '17. The market likes their "sugar daddy". At some point the fed must face reality and pay for their "party".
That is when the excrement will hit the fan and inflation becomes the new normal.
The next generation is really going to get screwed - someone is going to have to pay for all of this. Just think, at the present $17T debt, for a 3% interest rate, that is $510B just on the interest alone. When that kicks into high gear, a recession will look good.
Elections matter.
The Fed is trying to hold off the inevitable - an increase in the federal funds rate.
Yellen said yesterday they will most likely hold off until '17. The market likes their "sugar daddy". At some point the fed must face reality and pay for their "party".
That is when the excrement will hit the fan and inflation becomes the new normal.
The next generation is really going to get screwed - someone is going to have to pay for all of this. Just think, at the present $17T debt, for a 3% interest rate, that is $510B just on the interest alone. When that kicks into high gear, a recession will look good.
Elections matter.
QE... welfare for white folks.
My plan for when QE ends: Ride it out, and be invested in good funds that pay a healthy dividend. I really like closed end mutual funds. (eaton vance, wells fargo, etc) Reinvest dividends at cheaper prices, and don't panic, and reap the rewards when things get back to normal... whenever that is.
i'm 53 and pretty well on track to retire at 63 on my own investments and SS and live pretty well. own a home, a camp several cars and toys and no debt to speak of. i started saving for retirement when i was 27. i know people my age who still have a mortgage, car payments and borrow against their meager 401k's. i don't know how they sleep at night or what their plan is. it baffles me.
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
It's not ALL about the choices you make. It's also about what life happens to throw at you.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
I understand that. But, saving doesn't happen by accident, and retirement savings must be intentional and disciplined. Around $580 a month (savings) is very realistic for a person working a full time. Notice I said "average". If you have a lean year, make up for it the next year.
As you can see by the title of the thread, many people didn't have the discipline to delay gratification and to save and invest. THE most critical time to save/invest for retirement is your 20's. Compounding interest says so.
Sorry I ruffled your feathers.
You didn't ruffle his feathers. He is just frustrated by the things you don't know.
Saving for retirement amid hardship is really nothing new. It's been going on for generations. Some people do it, some people don't. That's what this thread is about.
Originally Posted by Calvin
Saving for retirement amid hardship is really nothing new. It's been going on for generations. Some people do it, some people don't. That's what this thread is about.
You don't seem to realize that "hardship" can happen before, or during, "saving".
Life is funny. Everything can cruise along just fine until you or your spouse or kids get into bad health. Then after insurance you're paying around $3K a month out of pocket with no end in sight.
What "ruffles my feathers" is when people think that life going good is all about the choices they make, rather than the mishaps they've avoided by the grace of God.
What "ruffles my feathers" is when people think that life going good is all about the choices they make, rather than the mishaps they've avoided by the grace of God.
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Life is funny. Everything can cruise along just fine until you or your spouse or kids get into bad health. Then after insurance you're paying around $3K a month out of pocket with no end in sight.
What "ruffles my feathers" is when people think that life going good is all about the choices they make, rather than the mishaps they've avoided by the grace of God.
What "ruffles my feathers" is when people think that life going good is all about the choices they make, rather than the mishaps they've avoided by the grace of God.
I just feel sorry for them. They are not often prepared for reality when they finally have to face it.
Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
I've always found Boomers very self-absorbed, short-sighted, and WAY behind on their financial knowledge as it relates to a secure future. They are socialist at heart--because they still believe in the goodness of gov't.
The boomers I know don't necessarily believe in the goodness of government; they're just too self centered and absorbed to think of anything except their own "good" life and high times. Consequently, they spend all they get (and more too - i.e., debt) to save for the future.
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
It's not ALL about the choices you make. It's also about what life happens to throw at you.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
I understand that. But, saving doesn't happen by accident, and retirement savings must be intentional and disciplined. Around $580 a month (savings) is very realistic for a person working a full time. Notice I said "average". If you have a lean year, make up for it the next year.
As you can see by the title of the thread, many people didn't have the discipline to delay gratification and to save and invest. THE most critical time to save/invest for retirement is your 20's. Compounding interest says so.
Sorry I ruffled your feathers.
Calvin is such a good and thrifty saver he managed to save enough to buy an Alaska commercial fishing permit for 60k plus and a commercial fishing boat, what does that cost 250k plus?
All this in 5yrs an an E-2 grade military pay?
That's amazing, we should all worship his investment advice!!
How much does the military pay?
Joel doesn't have the first [bleep] clue. But I'll be around when it happens, and I'll LAUGH and LAUGH.
Fortunately, I have read this thread and all those bad things will only effect the 'boomers'. But it is so refreshing to see people whining about others then the traditional groups.
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
It's not ALL about the choices you make. It's also about what life happens to throw at you.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
True observation; a person with an otherwise good income can have the wheels come off through job loss, high medical expenses, children with developmental disabilities, etc. I have no problem with helping people in such situations, but I DO have a problem with helping those who always have a new car, a bigger (than they can afford) house, expensive vacations, etc.
The bottom line is to invest what you can, increase it when possible - but stay in the market. The earlier the better. As stated already, the power of compounding interest will reward the young investor who stayed focused.
Originally Posted by irfubar
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
It's not ALL about the choices you make. It's also about what life happens to throw at you.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
I understand that. But, saving doesn't happen by accident, and retirement savings must be intentional and disciplined. Around $580 a month (savings) is very realistic for a person working a full time. Notice I said "average". If you have a lean year, make up for it the next year.
As you can see by the title of the thread, many people didn't have the discipline to delay gratification and to save and invest. THE most critical time to save/invest for retirement is your 20's. Compounding interest says so.
Sorry I ruffled your feathers.
Calvin is such a good and thrifty saver he managed to save enough to buy an Alaska commercial fishing permit for 60k plus and a commercial fishing boat, what does that cost 250k plus?
All this in 5yrs an an E-2 grade military pay?
That's amazing, we should all worship his investment advice!!
How much does the military pay?
Not even close.
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Joel doesn't have the first [bleep] clue. But I'll be around when it happens, and I'll LAUGH and LAUGH.
Did you ever answer my question about how your life choices have made your life so great?
I'm sure you'll laugh, as it's the kind of person you are.. you play the sad little clown very well on here. We can see the pain though.
I'm sure I don't have the first clue as to make the decisions you have made in life. I've already said that. I've been very intentional to avoid living a life like you have. You've shown me nothing I'd aspire to or that I'd want.
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Joel doesn't have the first [bleep] clue. But I'll be around when it happens, and I'll LAUGH and LAUGH.
Did you ever answer my question about how your life choices have made your life so great?
I'm sure you'll laugh, as it's the kind of person you are.. you play the sad little clown very well on here. We can see the pain though.
I'm sure I don't have the first clue as to make the decisions you have made in life. I've already said that. I've been very intentional to avoid living a life like you have. You've shown me nothing I'd aspire to or that I'd want.
Nice to see somebody with absolute control. lol
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Joel doesn't have the first [bleep] clue. But I'll be around when it happens, and I'll LAUGH and LAUGH.
Did you ever answer my question about how your life choices have made your life so great?
I'm sure you'll laugh, as it's the kind of person you are.. you play the sad little clown very well on here. We can see the pain though.
I'm sure I don't have the first clue as to make the decisions you have made in life. I've already said that. I've been very intentional to avoid living a life like you have. You've shown me nothing I'd aspire to or that I'd want.
Frankly, you don't have a damned clue. There are huge swaths of this country that don't have the state paying them for the benefit of oil money that there is no way in Hell they can make $100k by that age, much less save it.
You're playing with numbers that simply don't work,
I can give you real life examples and ask you to tell me exactly how your math works, but I'll save you the effort by stating bluntly that it ain't possible.
Yours is a nice pipe dream, and yes, if possible is the way to do it. It just doesn't work in the majority of locales.
He reminds me of what they about Ozzy Osbornes son.
"It is very possible to make a million dollars if somebody gives you thirty million to work with.".
"It is very possible to make a million dollars if somebody gives you thirty million to work with.".
[bleep], pay me to live somewhere and it's damned easy to squirrel back some coin.
You.. can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You say.. "Steve.. how can I be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes?" First.. get a million dollars.
Right? Some people make it on their own, and others have it given to them. The former seldom preach to others.
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by irfubar
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
It's not ALL about the choices you make. It's also about what life happens to throw at you.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control that makes saving $7K a year (or $700 a year) about as realistic as flying to the moon. To assume that everyone should be able to replicate what one person does is stupid.
I understand that. But, saving doesn't happen by accident, and retirement savings must be intentional and disciplined. Around $580 a month (savings) is very realistic for a person working a full time. Notice I said "average". If you have a lean year, make up for it the next year.
As you can see by the title of the thread, many people didn't have the discipline to delay gratification and to save and invest. THE most critical time to save/invest for retirement is your 20's. Compounding interest says so.
Sorry I ruffled your feathers.
Calvin is such a good and thrifty saver he managed to save enough to buy an Alaska commercial fishing permit for 60k plus and a commercial fishing boat, what does that cost 250k plus?
All this in 5yrs an an E-2 grade military pay?
That's amazing, we should all worship his investment advice!!
How much does the military pay?
Not even close.
Ok so I was low on my estimate of the boat cost?
Again how did you save all that money in 5yrs on a military's man salary?
You sure like to tell others how they don't have the discipline to save etc...
You said in an earlier thread your grandfather made so much money in the stock market your kids would enjoy the fruit's of his investing!!
You are a hypocrite and a phony!, yet you have the gall to judge others, GFY
Could it reflect a lack of trust in the 401K system, i.e., their savings are elsewhere, i.e., undocumented?
The boomers I know don't have a pot to pee in. Driving leased cars, 30 year mortgages, credit cards charged with six month's worth of salary, 401K loans, you name it.
The only real money many of them have is the house they live in, and real estate saved their bacon for a few decades. Now, there's no more equity to refinance consumer debt with. Living within your means seems to be a lost concept altogether.
Setbacks can be real, and I had a few bad business ventures that basically ate up about 7 years of income. Those are easy to overcome, you drive an old truck, live in a modest house, and eat lots of ramen noodles for a few years. Things like long term illness or special needs kids are things that are simply not easy to overcome, financially. When the choice is to get your kid the care they need, or save, what are you going to do?
The only real money many of them have is the house they live in, and real estate saved their bacon for a few decades. Now, there's no more equity to refinance consumer debt with. Living within your means seems to be a lost concept altogether.
Setbacks can be real, and I had a few bad business ventures that basically ate up about 7 years of income. Those are easy to overcome, you drive an old truck, live in a modest house, and eat lots of ramen noodles for a few years. Things like long term illness or special needs kids are things that are simply not easy to overcome, financially. When the choice is to get your kid the care they need, or save, what are you going to do?
I am guessing if folks chose to invest a bit rather than buy big trucks, quads, boats, hunting leases and guns they might find life a bit better as they age. Sure see a lot of toys around here. Yep, choices.
Originally Posted by EdM
I am guessing if folks chose to invest a bit rather than buy big trucks, quads, boats, hunting leases and guns they might find life a bit better as they age. Sure see a lot of toys around here. Yep, choices.
Delayed gratification has worked great for me!
Now I can buy the toys and better yet I have time to use them.
Calvin's message is fundamentally correct, my point is he has no credibility.
The premise is complete BS, I could retire today if I wanted to.
But, I'd hafta die next Friday.
But, I'd hafta die next Friday.
Originally Posted by irfubar
Calvin's message is fundamentally correct
Who would have thunk.
Originally Posted by Fubarski
The premise is complete BS, I could retire today if I wanted to.
But, I'd hafta die next Friday.
But, I'd hafta die next Friday.
That's funny!
I hear ya,
We certainly cant dismiss the fact that a lot of luck is also involved in being financially successful.
People who tell you different are full of themselves, and are letting their ego get away from them.
People make their own luck.
Originally Posted by Calvin
People make their own luck.
Lol. Remember that.
Originally Posted by Calvin
People make their own luck.
Ego, meet arrogance!!
You are a long ways from the end of the game.
My hunch tell's me you will fail in spectacular fashion.
I'm not sure that article really has anything to say. How about a complete picture. How many boomers have jobs with pensions? Paid for homes? Savings? My 401K would leave a pretty poor picture of my retirement and I will be set very well.
Op Ed
As the boomers turn
Since the '80s, polls have found those who came of age in the '60s and '70s becoming more family oriented and conservative. If more boomers are led to embrace the GOP, it could affect the 2012 vote.
September 12, 2011|By Karlyn Bowman and Andrew Rugg
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Share
Baby boomers who came of age during the social and political upheavals of the 1960s and 1970s tended to call themselves Democrats, and as time passed, that identification strengthened. In 1969, far more in the 18- to 29-year-old age cohort � the front end of the baby boom � called themselves Democrats (35%) than Republicans (21%). A decade later, when they were 28 to 39 years old, their identification with the Democratic Party over the GOP was even stronger (45% to 19% in Gallup's surveys).
But starting in the 1980s, attitudes of the baby boomers began changing. Polls found them becoming more family oriented and, over time, more conservative. If this transformation continues, leading more of them to embrace the GOP, it could affect the 2012 election.
Although characterized as rebellious, the vast majority of boomers were not actually radical during the 1960s and '70s. In fact, it was older, less-educated Americans who first called our involvement in Vietnam a mistake, not the younger, college-educated "antiwar generation." Young people were, initially at least, more supportive of going to war in Vietnam than their elders.
When the '60s generation was asked in the 1980s to look back to its supposedly tumultuous youth, the recollections were more tame than many had expected. In a 1986 poll for Time magazine, only a third of the generation said they had favored the social protests and demonstrations of the 1960s and '70s, and only a quarter said they took part in them. A mere 8% of respondents said they used marijuana regularly during the 1960s and '70s, although 26% acknowledged occasional use. And just 18% of those surveyed in a poll done for Rolling Stone magazine in 1987 said they had pursued a countercultural lifestyle in the late '60s.
Baby boomers were, however, less conventionally religious than their parents, and more liberal on racial issues, homosexuality and women's roles. Some three-quarters of those polled by Rolling Stone said their parents' generation put more emphasis on organized religion than they did, had more respect for authority and believed more in tried-and-true methods. The spirit of openness of the counterculture left a deep impression on them. In the Rolling Stone poll, 83% stated that their generation's willingness to be more open and share personal feelings was a change for the better from their parents' generation.
But the natural conservatizing effects of aging were also becoming evident in these 1980s polls. The passions of youth had been tempered by the practical reality of marriages, children and mortgages. Nearly 7 in 10 in the Rolling Stone poll said they were more family oriented than they thought they would be. When asked about changes from their parents' generation, 59% said more-permissive attitudes about sex were a change for the worse (31% thought it was for the better), 67% said more single parenthood was a change for the worse, and 72% said they thought less religious training for children was a change for the worse.
Ideological beliefs moved too. In the 1986 Time poll, 64% of the baby boomers polled said they had become more conservative since the 1960s. When asked about their ideological identification, 31% said they had been liberal in the 1960s and '70s, but only 21% described themselves that way in 1986. The number identifying as conservative rose from 28% to 41%.
The ideological reorientation of early boomers that began in the 1980s has continued. Two of the country's best long-running surveys show how those born between 1943 and 1958, the so-called near-olds at the front of the baby boom, have changed. In the 1972 American National Election Study survey, 30% of today's near-olds called themselves liberals. In 2008, 12% did. The proportion calling themselves conservative rose from 21% to 46%. In 1972, 51% of eligible voters in the early baby boom cohort called themselves Democrats and 29% Republicans. In 2008, 45% said they were Democrats and 48% said they were Republicans. The National Opinion Research Center's data also show a substantial increase (18 points) between 1974 and 2010 in conservative identification for the near-old cohort and a smaller movement in the GOP's direction. Those born between 1927 and 1942 changed far less in both surveys.
The importance of the '60s generation is magnified by its demographic weight. The near-olds vote in much higher numbers than some other groups. Census data from 2008 showed that 49% of the eligible voting-age population between the ages 18 and 24 turned out to vote, while 72% of the larger 55-to-63 group said they voted. The combined electoral heft of the near- and new-olds could dramatically alter the political landscape.
As the boomers turn
Since the '80s, polls have found those who came of age in the '60s and '70s becoming more family oriented and conservative. If more boomers are led to embrace the GOP, it could affect the 2012 vote.
September 12, 2011|By Karlyn Bowman and Andrew Rugg
Share
Baby boomers who came of age during the social and political upheavals of the 1960s and 1970s tended to call themselves Democrats, and as time passed, that identification strengthened. In 1969, far more in the 18- to 29-year-old age cohort � the front end of the baby boom � called themselves Democrats (35%) than Republicans (21%). A decade later, when they were 28 to 39 years old, their identification with the Democratic Party over the GOP was even stronger (45% to 19% in Gallup's surveys).
But starting in the 1980s, attitudes of the baby boomers began changing. Polls found them becoming more family oriented and, over time, more conservative. If this transformation continues, leading more of them to embrace the GOP, it could affect the 2012 election.
Although characterized as rebellious, the vast majority of boomers were not actually radical during the 1960s and '70s. In fact, it was older, less-educated Americans who first called our involvement in Vietnam a mistake, not the younger, college-educated "antiwar generation." Young people were, initially at least, more supportive of going to war in Vietnam than their elders.
When the '60s generation was asked in the 1980s to look back to its supposedly tumultuous youth, the recollections were more tame than many had expected. In a 1986 poll for Time magazine, only a third of the generation said they had favored the social protests and demonstrations of the 1960s and '70s, and only a quarter said they took part in them. A mere 8% of respondents said they used marijuana regularly during the 1960s and '70s, although 26% acknowledged occasional use. And just 18% of those surveyed in a poll done for Rolling Stone magazine in 1987 said they had pursued a countercultural lifestyle in the late '60s.
Baby boomers were, however, less conventionally religious than their parents, and more liberal on racial issues, homosexuality and women's roles. Some three-quarters of those polled by Rolling Stone said their parents' generation put more emphasis on organized religion than they did, had more respect for authority and believed more in tried-and-true methods. The spirit of openness of the counterculture left a deep impression on them. In the Rolling Stone poll, 83% stated that their generation's willingness to be more open and share personal feelings was a change for the better from their parents' generation.
But the natural conservatizing effects of aging were also becoming evident in these 1980s polls. The passions of youth had been tempered by the practical reality of marriages, children and mortgages. Nearly 7 in 10 in the Rolling Stone poll said they were more family oriented than they thought they would be. When asked about changes from their parents' generation, 59% said more-permissive attitudes about sex were a change for the worse (31% thought it was for the better), 67% said more single parenthood was a change for the worse, and 72% said they thought less religious training for children was a change for the worse.
Ideological beliefs moved too. In the 1986 Time poll, 64% of the baby boomers polled said they had become more conservative since the 1960s. When asked about their ideological identification, 31% said they had been liberal in the 1960s and '70s, but only 21% described themselves that way in 1986. The number identifying as conservative rose from 28% to 41%.
The ideological reorientation of early boomers that began in the 1980s has continued. Two of the country's best long-running surveys show how those born between 1943 and 1958, the so-called near-olds at the front of the baby boom, have changed. In the 1972 American National Election Study survey, 30% of today's near-olds called themselves liberals. In 2008, 12% did. The proportion calling themselves conservative rose from 21% to 46%. In 1972, 51% of eligible voters in the early baby boom cohort called themselves Democrats and 29% Republicans. In 2008, 45% said they were Democrats and 48% said they were Republicans. The National Opinion Research Center's data also show a substantial increase (18 points) between 1974 and 2010 in conservative identification for the near-old cohort and a smaller movement in the GOP's direction. Those born between 1927 and 1942 changed far less in both surveys.
The importance of the '60s generation is magnified by its demographic weight. The near-olds vote in much higher numbers than some other groups. Census data from 2008 showed that 49% of the eligible voting-age population between the ages 18 and 24 turned out to vote, while 72% of the larger 55-to-63 group said they voted. The combined electoral heft of the near- and new-olds could dramatically alter the political landscape.
Originally Posted by Calvin
People make their own luck.
Don't you have some barns to go tear down so you can build bigger barns?
In the story of Job everyone realizes that the devil took away what Job had and that later God gave it all back.
But the story is also pretty plain that everything Job had to begin with......he had because God was protecting and blessing him.
But the story is also pretty plain that everything Job had to begin with......he had because God was protecting and blessing him.
I disagree with your Encore story. I am a boomer and my wife and I have saved a lot more than that along with some investment properties. I know a number of people in my age bracket who also have done the same. Maybe my experience is not a reflection of the rest of the country but from my little corner or the country I say no true!
401k $ goes up and down but if you are actively managing your funds you are way ahead. I have 6 different funds that cross the board and none are returning less than 18% YTD and most are 12-14% over the past 5 years even after GWB's crash.
401k $ goes up and down but if you are actively managing your funds you are way ahead. I have 6 different funds that cross the board and none are returning less than 18% YTD and most are 12-14% over the past 5 years even after GWB's crash.
It should have been a requirement in the beginning of this discussion to post one's age.....just to reflect one's experience and POV.
It wasn't my generation who elected FDR,Truman,LBJ.
I was a no-nothing kid who believed in the broadcasts of Walter Cronkite until i went to VN in 1969. It took only a month or so to see that Cronkite was deceiving the American public. I spent 719 days of a four yr enlistment in VN.
I was discharged in '72-honorably.
I'm 65 and have been retired for a few years now....not lavishly but comfortably.
Your blanket statement about my generation being socialists and electing socialists shows what a mean-spirited little bitch you are
And before i forget......GFY.
It wasn't my generation who elected FDR,Truman,LBJ.
I was a no-nothing kid who believed in the broadcasts of Walter Cronkite until i went to VN in 1969. It took only a month or so to see that Cronkite was deceiving the American public. I spent 719 days of a four yr enlistment in VN.
I was discharged in '72-honorably.
I'm 65 and have been retired for a few years now....not lavishly but comfortably.
Your blanket statement about my generation being socialists and electing socialists shows what a mean-spirited little bitch you are
And before i forget......GFY.
neither are dumb twits like you dude.......
my savings and retirement is fine,
my savings and retirement is fine,
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by irfubar
Calvin's message is fundamentally correct
Who would have thunk.
Just like too much Nitrogen in the lake is pollution.
Too much money in the system is pollution.
If people were poorer, they would have to rely on family.
Family can give the most negative feedback on bad behavior without you killing them.
When I was a kid in the 50's, no one had anything. But the hunting and fishing were great. I would trade it all.
Too much money in the system is pollution.
If people were poorer, they would have to rely on family.
Family can give the most negative feedback on bad behavior without you killing them.
When I was a kid in the 50's, no one had anything. But the hunting and fishing were great. I would trade it all.
Originally Posted by Clarkm
Just like too much Nitrogen in the lake is pollution.
Too much money in the system is pollution.
If people were poorer, they would have to rely on family.
Family can give the most negative feedback on bad behavior without you killing them.
When I was a kid in the 50's, no one had anything. But the hunting and fishing were great. I would trade it all.
Too much money in the system is pollution.
If people were poorer, they would have to rely on family.
Family can give the most negative feedback on bad behavior without you killing them.
When I was a kid in the 50's, no one had anything. But the hunting and fishing were great. I would trade it all.
I am certainly glad that I wasn't doing what I watched some people doing when I was in my 20s. Were they saving more than me? Undoubtedly considering the time they spent talking about money and the literature they read. Perhaps that provided some satisfaction for them. But I've always thought life was worth living from one end to the other and not that retirement was life's goal - to be set for comfort when (if) you arrive. At this point I have a lot of great memories and a set of really bad knees which would seriously crimp a lot of things I once hoped I'd be able to continue to do later in life - when I had more time. And I've helped raise three kids who my wife already had when we married as well as two more of my own making and still another that one of the older kids somehow ( 
) produced too early in life. A safe life might be comfortable but I have no regrets about running some risks. And the pension I gave little thought to when I was in my 20s is quite livable - have no idea what the savings stuff will be good for or how; don't know if it's too little or not. Certainly don't plan to jet around the world as some might.
As much as I've tried to encourage young co-workers to start putting a few dollars away each month I haven't found the current crop of young people to be readily inclined. Many of them are too concerned about paying down their $20-40000 school loans.
) produced too early in life. A safe life might be comfortable but I have no regrets about running some risks. And the pension I gave little thought to when I was in my 20s is quite livable - have no idea what the savings stuff will be good for or how; don't know if it's too little or not. Certainly don't plan to jet around the world as some might.As much as I've tried to encourage young co-workers to start putting a few dollars away each month I haven't found the current crop of young people to be readily inclined. Many of them are too concerned about paying down their $20-40000 school loans.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Yep, for most folks in the old days, retirement meant you went to live with the family of one of your kids.
And if that were the case today, more folks would do a better job of raising their kids.
Originally Posted by deflave
Boomers ain't the smartest group of people I've come across.
Travis
Travis
Then consider keeping better company.
After ~30 years of ups & downs working I'm somewhat ahead of the curve. Not a lot, but somewhat. I have a good job now, and I'm putting away a lot of it.
Right now anything Oil & Gas related is up, and so is the economy around here. I bought a decent house 2 years ago, and it's appreciated roughly 20% in 2 years. I could sell it and re-invest in something closer to work, but it would cost me $100-200k more. I'm still debating if saving an hour a day commuting is worth the money. Or I just tough it out and look for some land in the country, or in a small city, mindful of retirement.
I'm also mindful that oil & gas has been a boom & bust industry as long as I've known about it, and I'm not planning to be deep in debt when the next bust hits.
Trying to encourage employees to save is a tough sell. Probably 1/3 to 1/2 of our guys put money into a 401k program, and most are way below the max contribution. $7k per year when you are in your 20's is probably unrealistic, IMO, but even $2k is better than nothing. Compound interest truly is a great thing to use.
�...But it is not particularly easy for one to climb up out of the working class�especially if he is handicapped by the possession of ideals and illusions. I lived on a ranch in California, and I was hard put to find the ladder whereby to climb. I early inquired the rate of interest on invested money, and worried my child�s brain into an understanding of the virtues and excellencies of that remarkable invention of man, compound interest��
Jack London, author, 1906
If you save only $200 per month, and make only 5% compound interest, you wind up with $159k total, versus $72k if you put it in a mattress.
Right now anything Oil & Gas related is up, and so is the economy around here. I bought a decent house 2 years ago, and it's appreciated roughly 20% in 2 years. I could sell it and re-invest in something closer to work, but it would cost me $100-200k more. I'm still debating if saving an hour a day commuting is worth the money. Or I just tough it out and look for some land in the country, or in a small city, mindful of retirement.
I'm also mindful that oil & gas has been a boom & bust industry as long as I've known about it, and I'm not planning to be deep in debt when the next bust hits.
Trying to encourage employees to save is a tough sell. Probably 1/3 to 1/2 of our guys put money into a 401k program, and most are way below the max contribution. $7k per year when you are in your 20's is probably unrealistic, IMO, but even $2k is better than nothing. Compound interest truly is a great thing to use.
�...But it is not particularly easy for one to climb up out of the working class�especially if he is handicapped by the possession of ideals and illusions. I lived on a ranch in California, and I was hard put to find the ladder whereby to climb. I early inquired the rate of interest on invested money, and worried my child�s brain into an understanding of the virtues and excellencies of that remarkable invention of man, compound interest��
Jack London, author, 1906
If you save only $200 per month, and make only 5% compound interest, you wind up with $159k total, versus $72k if you put it in a mattress.
My folks qualify as some of the earliest born of the baby boomers. They had good jobs and bought a home in 1980, but it took them a long time to get ahead. While I don't know if they were living paycheck to paycheck, things were certainly tighter when my brothers and I were younger. They had a lot of credit card debt at one point, drove newish cars for most of my upbringing and paid for college for the three of us by borrowing on their home equity.
My Dad liked to have nice things, but he was afraid of losing his investments in the stock market. He basically only put money into money market accounts. Thankfully Northrup also paid him in stock to some degree and after 30 years in aerospace, that's probably the only investment of his that had any appreciable return. After retiring from Northrup and doing his last 8 years with Raytheon, plus having my brothers and I out of the house and out of college and fully independent, he was able to invest much of his Northrup pension while living on his Raytheon salary. He was no longer scared of losing his job, or losing money in the stock market now that no one really depended on his income.
My mom was more willing to invest in more aggressive mutual funds, but she was a university administrator and didn't make nearly as much as he did. In the end, her investments were only 1/4 of his.
They are both in their mid 60s and both recently retired, they drive older cars than they did when I was growing, despite probably being able to afford much newer, no longer carry credit card debt and are about 3 years from paying off the house after numerous refis throughout the 90s and 2000s (probably because they are paying 4-6 times their monthly mortgage in order to expedite it).
They are a classic example of people who had good jobs, but couldn't save anything for the longest time. The combination of my dad's "rehirement" stint with Raytheon and getting better control of their expenses by the early 2000s, is probably the difference between them enjoying retirement and eating cat food in 10 years.
My point of this example is they could have swung to either side of the spectrum. Are they as wealthy as they could have been if they got their spending under control and invested more heavily and aggressively at an earlier age or chose not to pay for 3 college educations? Definitely not. Will their savings, investments and pensions last them if they live into their 90s? I think so and I expect them to continue enjoying their lives well into their 70s. You never know when health issues will creep up on you, but for now they are able bodied and still getting out to see the world (even went to Antarctica) without having to dip heavily into their investments. Their hope is to be able to live off a combination of their pensions, Social Security and only dabble into the interest or dividends on occasion to maintain their standard of living from the past 10 years. Seems like it'll work to me.
My Dad liked to have nice things, but he was afraid of losing his investments in the stock market. He basically only put money into money market accounts. Thankfully Northrup also paid him in stock to some degree and after 30 years in aerospace, that's probably the only investment of his that had any appreciable return. After retiring from Northrup and doing his last 8 years with Raytheon, plus having my brothers and I out of the house and out of college and fully independent, he was able to invest much of his Northrup pension while living on his Raytheon salary. He was no longer scared of losing his job, or losing money in the stock market now that no one really depended on his income.
My mom was more willing to invest in more aggressive mutual funds, but she was a university administrator and didn't make nearly as much as he did. In the end, her investments were only 1/4 of his.
They are both in their mid 60s and both recently retired, they drive older cars than they did when I was growing, despite probably being able to afford much newer, no longer carry credit card debt and are about 3 years from paying off the house after numerous refis throughout the 90s and 2000s (probably because they are paying 4-6 times their monthly mortgage in order to expedite it).
They are a classic example of people who had good jobs, but couldn't save anything for the longest time. The combination of my dad's "rehirement" stint with Raytheon and getting better control of their expenses by the early 2000s, is probably the difference between them enjoying retirement and eating cat food in 10 years.
My point of this example is they could have swung to either side of the spectrum. Are they as wealthy as they could have been if they got their spending under control and invested more heavily and aggressively at an earlier age or chose not to pay for 3 college educations? Definitely not. Will their savings, investments and pensions last them if they live into their 90s? I think so and I expect them to continue enjoying their lives well into their 70s. You never know when health issues will creep up on you, but for now they are able bodied and still getting out to see the world (even went to Antarctica) without having to dip heavily into their investments. Their hope is to be able to live off a combination of their pensions, Social Security and only dabble into the interest or dividends on occasion to maintain their standard of living from the past 10 years. Seems like it'll work to me.
some of you make blanket assumptions and generalizations about boomers. I am one of those boomers. You also forget one thing.
birth control was around, so were sacks, and us boomers could have tossed you generation x ers in the river.
I am in the top 5% of the country in retirement savings, own three homes, about ten cars(like military vehicles) have a quite aedequate collection of other things, haven't voted democratic in my life, and am somewhere to the right of attila the hun politically.
Not all of us were at woodstock, and that freelove stuff wasn't true, you had to work for nooky then too.
oh, one other thing. Took about 7 years to get through college. I had basically no help, my father died about 3months before i started, and i had 700bucks to my name at the time. At age 27 i married a women ten years older, still married to her, and raised three of her kids.
It's funny watching you pups solve the problems of the world.
birth control was around, so were sacks, and us boomers could have tossed you generation x ers in the river.
I am in the top 5% of the country in retirement savings, own three homes, about ten cars(like military vehicles) have a quite aedequate collection of other things, haven't voted democratic in my life, and am somewhere to the right of attila the hun politically.
Not all of us were at woodstock, and that freelove stuff wasn't true, you had to work for nooky then too.
oh, one other thing. Took about 7 years to get through college. I had basically no help, my father died about 3months before i started, and i had 700bucks to my name at the time. At age 27 i married a women ten years older, still married to her, and raised three of her kids.
It's funny watching you pups solve the problems of the world.
OK, I'm a boomer I guess.
Doing fine financially.
Attila was a liberal.
Doing fine financially.
Attila was a liberal.
The government cause the problem but the government can't or won't solve the problem.
Boomers are dumb, Subsequent generations are slackers, both seem like blanket statements. I hate being judged as a member of a group. My story is nothing special. I ran away from college and joined the army and spent 27 months running through the jungle. worked as a cop, paramedic and PA for 21 years. Married at 25 and bought a house on the VA. Raised 4 kids, 3 of which graduated from college w/ advanced degrees and NO student debt. Never turned down OT, never drove a new car, avoided debt like the plague. Lived a life of fun and adventure via work opportunities that I created and had a ball raising a family.I made some decent investments and retired at 58. I got bored and now work part time in the gun Biz. I was blessed w/ good health. Work hard and avoid debt. You too can succeed. Whining is for the weak.
mike r
mike r
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Clarkm
Just like too much Nitrogen in the lake is pollution.
Too much money in the system is pollution.
If people were poorer, they would have to rely on family.
Family can give the most negative feedback on bad behavior without you killing them.
When I was a kid in the 50's, no one had anything. But the hunting and fishing were great. I would trade it all.
Too much money in the system is pollution.
If people were poorer, they would have to rely on family.
Family can give the most negative feedback on bad behavior without you killing them.
When I was a kid in the 50's, no one had anything. But the hunting and fishing were great. I would trade it all.
With what's going in with Obamacare, more and more old folks will be living with kids.
Obamacare severely reduced reimbursement rates for medicare. As a result, most nursing homes are losing money for each medicare patient. The number of old folks in these homes on medicare is increasing, and will continue to increase. As a result, they are beginning to lay off staff, consolidate, and even close their doors. This is just getting started.
Unless major change happens, you are not going to want to spend 1 day in a retirement/nursing home under medicare. It will be very bad service, and old, rotting buildings.
In 30 years, 13k a month isn't going to get your very far. It'll get you somewhere, but not as far as you think it will.
Save your money. You'll need it, and you'll kids will need you to have money to take care of yourself.
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Clarkm
Just like too much Nitrogen in the lake is pollution.
Too much money in the system is pollution.
If people were poorer, they would have to rely on family.
Family can give the most negative feedback on bad behavior without you killing them.
When I was a kid in the 50's, no one had anything. But the hunting and fishing were great. I would trade it all.
Too much money in the system is pollution.
If people were poorer, they would have to rely on family.
Family can give the most negative feedback on bad behavior without you killing them.
When I was a kid in the 50's, no one had anything. But the hunting and fishing were great. I would trade it all.
With what's going in with Obamacare, more and more old folks will be living with kids.
Obamacare severely reduced reimbursement rates for medicare. As a result, most nursing homes are losing money for each medicare patient. The number of old folks in these homes on medicare is increasing, and will continue to increase. As a result, they are beginning to lay off staff, consolidate, and even close their doors. This is just getting started.
Unless major change happens, you are not going to want to spend 1 day in a retirement/nursing home under medicare. It will be very bad service, and old, rotting buildings.
In 30 years, 13k a month isn't going to get your very far. It'll get you somewhere, but not as far as you think it will.
Save your money. You'll need it, and you'll kids will need you to have money to take care of yourself.
More and more old folks will be put on one of those dwindling ice bergs.
Forgot to mention, i have three freezers full. I am a prepper and grow things in the back yard. Eating carrots right now for breakfast.
At least a year's food supply, maybe more on hand.
I know quite a few boomers like me.
My only real bad addiction, if you want to call it that, is collecting pieces of metal, generally made by smith and wesson. Which in hindsight wasn't so bad.
I remember 25 years or so ago, people beating on me for buying those WWII jeeps for 600bucks or so a piece. Course I get a lot of offers today, like weekly, to sell one of them.
I don't think my future is in a rest home. I actually have a daughter, and a grandson, that have multiple times offered to take me in if needed, which isn't likely. Tht's what families are for.
At least a year's food supply, maybe more on hand.
I know quite a few boomers like me.
My only real bad addiction, if you want to call it that, is collecting pieces of metal, generally made by smith and wesson. Which in hindsight wasn't so bad.
I remember 25 years or so ago, people beating on me for buying those WWII jeeps for 600bucks or so a piece. Course I get a lot of offers today, like weekly, to sell one of them.
I don't think my future is in a rest home. I actually have a daughter, and a grandson, that have multiple times offered to take me in if needed, which isn't likely. Tht's what families are for.
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
OK, I'm a boomer I guess.
Doing fine financially.
Attila was a liberal.
Doing fine financially.
Attila was a liberal.
Attila was a uncle on my mothers side.
Eric the red on the fathers.
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Boomers are dumb, Subsequent generations are slackers, both seem like blanket statements. I hate being judged as a member of a group. My story is nothing special. I ran away from college and joined the army and spent 27 months running through the jungle. worked as a cop, paramedic and PA for 21 years. Married at 25 and bought a house on the VA. Raised 4 kids, 3 of which graduated from college w/ advanced degrees and NO student debt. Never turned down OT, never drove a new car, avoided debt like the plague. Lived a life of fun and adventure via work opportunities that I created and had a ball raising a family.I made some decent investments and retired at 58. I got bored and now work part time in the gun Biz. I was blessed w/ good health. Work hard and avoid debt. You too can succeed. Whining is for the weak.
mike r
mike r
Mike:
I have been accused many times during the years of wanting to retire since i was 20, which is basically true. So I prepared for it as best i could.
I have also been in the investment world for 40 years, and have many many examples of people that did everything right, and yet the unexpected stuff really wacked them, sickness being a big one.
Originally Posted by 4ager
They don't care. They have voted in nothing but socialists to take care of their spoiled azzes since Day One.
Yes, there are some conservative "boomers", but the majority are outright socialists. The "greatest generation" (and I HATE that moniker, because they were not) gave us the worst.
Yes, there are some conservative "boomers", but the majority are outright socialists. The "greatest generation" (and I HATE that moniker, because they were not) gave us the worst.
Really?
I too am a "boomer"
Snake
BTW
I am doing OK
Time will tell if my 401K is enough
Snake
I am doing OK
Time will tell if my 401K is enough
Snake
RoninPhx, while I agree that luck is always a factor I also have found that the harder I worked and the better I planned that the luckier I became. I also agree that health issues are the true boogeyman and that I and my family have been relatively lucky accompanied by great insurance that I worked for. My kids have done very well but I fear that my G-kids will reap the whirlwind that our govt. and society have created. I can only help them prepare and be strong.
mike r
mike r
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Life is funny. Everything can cruise along just fine until you or your spouse or kids get into bad health. Then after insurance you're paying around $3K a month out of pocket with no end in sight.
What "ruffles my feathers" is when people think that life going good is all about the choices they make, rather than the mishaps they've avoided by the grace of God.
What "ruffles my feathers" is when people think that life going good is all about the choices they make, rather than the mishaps they've avoided by the grace of God.
Life IS funny and just full of "little" surprises that can knock anyone right off their high horse. There is nothing like a life threatening diagnosis for a person [even with excellent medical insurance] and their spouse to change that good ole' financial portfolio over night. We can plan, be disciplined, and be so tight with our money that we squeak when we walk. Just don't be surprised when life throws a curve ball. I stopped trusting in my "horses and chariots" along time ago.
Originally Posted by lvmiker
RoninPhx, while I agree that luck is always a factor I also have found that the harder I worked and the better I planned that the luckier I became. I also agree that health issues are the true boogeyman and that I and my family have been relatively lucky accompanied by great insurance that I worked for. My kids have done very well but I fear that my G-kids will reap the whirlwind that our govt. and society have created. I can only help them prepare and be strong.
mike r
mike r
I have had a couple of major health issues through the years, and if hadn't been for my hoarder instincts, the outcome would have been much different. I often council people that while you may not know the trials in front of you, it's better to prepare than not prepare. As to the grandkids, some get it, some don't, in my personal experience.
One of my favorite stories is a client of mine that started a ira around 1981 with 2k, they are now in the 700k range. I often kidded them about how they were worth more than the doctor she worked for. Could have something to do with his multiple wives and expensive life style.
If the gubmint wants people to save money, why do they place all the incentives on borrowing? (Think that $17 trillion national debt might have something to do with it?)
Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
Why invest in a retirement account? I have Social Security.
(Now where's that fat, dumb and happy icon?)
(Now where's that fat, dumb and happy icon?
) Just this week a man I work with said he was going to put in for SS at 62 and retire.
I can not feed my two big dogs on the $$$ they will pay out at age 62. Only guys
like Donald Trump can live off only SS at 62.
Looking at Calvin's posts above I have to agree. I started investing in 1981 soon after my first was born. Raised two kid and put them through private schools. Both are debt free and have good jobs.
I have made every mistake known in these 35 years of investing. After all this I have $3MM in investment funds. I never made big $, but embarked on a month over month investment and savings approach to investing. I have no debt. My wife's father started investing at an early age and was my mentor
The biggest factor is I invested in was my smarts and and manual labor. I built and sold 2 houses (from scratch) with my own hands
Now I have (by design) $1.5 MM in Roth and personal (taxed) accounts These $ yield about 3.5 %. This is my retirement money to supplement SS and my pension. My planned withdrawal rate is about 2% of savings for an annual income of about $100K with SS and pension
I also have $1.5 MM in IRA accounts ( don't hold a 401 K!)Which is invested in EFT's for growth and some income. I doubt I will need these funds Yield is also about 3%. These are invested more in a more aggressive manner for the future.
It's really is pretty simple if you you put your mind to it.
Even as a middle class citizen it's not " very surprising" how the system won't work for dumb [bleep]
I have made every mistake known in these 35 years of investing. After all this I have $3MM in investment funds. I never made big $, but embarked on a month over month investment and savings approach to investing. I have no debt. My wife's father started investing at an early age and was my mentor
The biggest factor is I invested in was my smarts and and manual labor. I built and sold 2 houses (from scratch) with my own hands
Now I have (by design) $1.5 MM in Roth and personal (taxed) accounts These $ yield about 3.5 %. This is my retirement money to supplement SS and my pension. My planned withdrawal rate is about 2% of savings for an annual income of about $100K with SS and pension
I also have $1.5 MM in IRA accounts ( don't hold a 401 K!)Which is invested in EFT's for growth and some income. I doubt I will need these funds Yield is also about 3%. These are invested more in a more aggressive manner for the future.
It's really is pretty simple if you you put your mind to it.
Even as a middle class citizen it's not " very surprising" how the system won't work for dumb [bleep]
Having millions in the bank is a good way to get suicided by your kids.
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Having millions in the bank is a good way to get suicided by your kids.
Fragged...
It would appear that those who saved have hit a nerve with those who have not.
Boomer here and doing just fine.
Boomer here and doing just fine.
Originally Posted by pak
It would appear that those who saved have hit a nerve with those who have not.
Boomer here and doing just fine.
Boomer here and doing just fine.
Spot on. Love to read the continuum of the whining "have not's" that have chosen their destination. Even with their less that apparent misfortunes they would have been far better off with the funds developed from a non-brain dead start when they were young. More entitler's? Always wondered, given their clear "misfortunes" how they are advising their children to be less "misfortunate". Denial with a vengeance.
Quote
It would appear that those who saved have hit a nerve with those who have not.
Nope. Those who have not likely ain't posting. What has hit a nerve is a double dose of "smug".
For my own part I have never cared much about money, but am set up OK at least for my own modest standard of living.
Looking at my family it runs the gamut, from comfortably retired already to no retirement saved to speak of. Generally speaking those without retirement are that way due to a combination of career choices and major setbacks; health, job, family, marriage etc..... Dunno a one of those in the hole financially who got that way due to being conspicuously more profligate with funds than the rest of us.
But, as to the original post; unquestionably a lot of aging Americans are gonna experience a sort of poverty.
Birdwatcher
PE Boomers are doing just fine, there on the indentured servant plan...
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Life is funny. Everything can cruise along just fine until you or your spouse or kids get into bad health. Then after insurance you're paying around $3K a month out of pocket with no end in sight.
What "ruffles my feathers" is when people think that life going good is all about the choices they make, rather than the mishaps they've avoided by the grace of God.
What "ruffles my feathers" is when people think that life going good is all about the choices they make, rather than the mishaps they've avoided by the grace of God.
That is exactly what happened to my family situation.
My wife and I were putting funds into investments, college funds, and savings. Then my youngest got sick and it was more than $3K per month out of pocket. I'd much rather put the money I'm spending right now into investments and retirement savings and it is not because I want to retire early.
If anybody here doesn't know that life can change for the worse in an instant then they are not paying attention. For the most part when the smug get their comeuppance there is often not much sympathy.
There is nothing here unique to Boomers (investing or not investing, saving or not saving, good luck or bad luck) that doesn't work the same way for the preceding and succeeding generations. You have to do the best you can with what is in your own control and hope/pray that something bad doesn't happen to wipe it out.
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
What "ruffles my feathers" is when people think that life going good is all about the choices they make, rather than the mishaps they've avoided by the grace of God.
Much wisdom and truth in that statement Bluedreaux.
Originally Posted by n007
If anybody here doesn't know that life can change for the worse in an instant then they are not paying attention.
That's for damn sure. It can go from real good to real bad, seemingly in the blink of an eye...through no fault of your own.
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Quote
It would appear that those who saved have hit a nerve with those who have not.
Nope. Those who have not likely ain't posting. What has hit a nerve is a double dose of "smug".
Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man. We say that people are proud of being rich, or clever, or good looking, but they are not. They are proud of being richer, or cleverer, or better looking than others. If everyone became equally rich, or clever, or good looking there would be nothing to be proud about. It is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest� - C.S. Lewis
Smug? Being responsible, accountable,hardworking and self reliant is a choice. Our grasping entitled populace that doesn't embrace that choice is subject to the vagaries of life that can afflict anyone. You choose your own survival strategies in this country. Enjoy the boat, truck, gun etc. with which you enslave yourself with compound interest and practice your whining for when tough times arrive as they may for anyone.
mike r
mike r
Originally Posted by n007
If anybody here doesn't know that life can change for the worse in an instant then they are not paying attention. ....
n007;
Top of the morning to you sir, I trust that Island life has been treating you well.
We're enjoying a bit of a typical warm Okanagan fall here and I'm on a second cup of coffee waiting for our eldest to help me do some maintenance on her Cherokee this morning.
As you likely know of me, I'm fairly private about many aspects of our personal life - for a number of reasons I won't get into right now....
Anyway though, as a for instance to your thoughts, I'll just say that in the past 12 odd months in our lives.
My Mother's condo was damaged to the point where she and 60 odd other retirees were forced to leave it. At present they are in negotiations with their various insurance companies to see what if anything will be covered. Pretty much all of her life savings was tied up into the condo, so while she's been holding her own financially so far - we're all cognizant that might change in an instant too and her children will help out as we're able to.
Her situation calls for us to allot additional time into our daily schedules which of course adds challenges some days.
My mother in law moved into a local retirement facility and fell the first night there - sustaining a serious, life altering injury. After a long stretch in the hospital while she was on a waiting list for placement, we've been able to get her into a good full care facility.
Because of the provincial health care funding being what it is, her basic housing needs will be taken care of financially and the remainder should be available from her savings. Her condition has meant that a lot of time has needed to be spent with her - again this makes schedule juggling fun some days.
This spring the local cabinet making shop that I'd been a manager at in one capacity or another for over a decade went under. I'd been employed there more or less since '87 - barring a year off in '98 to manufacture fire fighting equipment - and while I knew it was struggling, still was forced to find other employment and adjust to all the vagaries of life that comes with that.
I'll leave out a few other items in life we're dealing with as of this morning just because, but again they are taking time, energy and financial attention that it was impossible for anyone to plan for.
Please be sure I'm pulling back the curtain to my life only to say that if there are folks out there going through some "interesting times" - well they aren't alone.
Emphatically I'm not looking for sympathy either here by posting this as my wife and I are a pair of survivors if any ever existed and we will make it out the other side of it all.
My hope by writing this out is that folks will see examples of a 'Fire member who is the living embodiment of what you posted.
It is a blessing that we've prepared financially for life to go into the weeds for sure, but finances are only one piece of a complex puzzle we know as our lives.
Lastly, since we're a hunting site after all, the initial weeks of this fall's season have showed our eldest daughter and I more looks at mulie bucks, bull elk and good sized black bears than the past 5 seasons.
She and I have been burning enough fuel between her Cherokee and our Cummins pickup that we'll both be getting a thank you card from Husky this Christmas!
Thanks for your thoughts this morning n007, all the best to you folks and good luck on your hunts this fall.
Dwayne
Far better to be grateful when things are going well than boastful.
Reading some posts you'd think the race has ended today, when it fact today is just the beginning. It's a long run, enjoy it when it's good, be ready when it's bad and accept the fact that you don't have control over anyone but yourself.
Reading some posts you'd think the race has ended today, when it fact today is just the beginning. It's a long run, enjoy it when it's good, be ready when it's bad and accept the fact that you don't have control over anyone but yourself.
Always have a plan to sleep out in the open and eat out of a tin can.
Kent
Kent
I am sixty-five and plan on retiring at the end of this calendar year but then continue on on a very part-time basis. I have not been an overly frugal type and am not a "money guy," but by all accounts, we should be quite comfortable.
My main point is we are in much less control over the vicissitudes of life than we might think at times. A well known pastor I listen to on occasion once told his listeners, "I have two types of people listening to me now. The first group has had some life-changing tragedy happen to them, be it bankruptcy, a debilitating (or life-claiming) illness or accident, divorce, death of a child, or any other thing involving yourself or family. Then there is the second group who have had nothing like any of these things happen to them.......YET! The point is, rare is the person or couple who go through life without one of these personal struggles. Any one of these can be financially devastating.
The title of the thread is indeed sad for those whom it is true yet there is nothing in adequate wealth alone that is completely dependable, safe, or satisfying.
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Far better to be grateful when things are going well than boastful.
More sound wisdom.
Originally Posted by George_De_Vries_3rd
...we are in much less control over the vicissitudes of life than we might think at times. A well known pastor I listen to on occasion once told his listeners, "I have two types of people listening to me now. The first group has had some life-changing tragedy happen to them, be it bankruptcy, a debilitating (or life-claiming) illness or accident, divorce, death of a child, or any other thing involving yourself or family. Then there is the second group who have had nothing like any of these things happen to them.......YET! The point is, rare is the person or couple who go through life without one of these personal struggles. Any one of these can be financially devastating.
The title of the thread is indeed sad for those whom it is true yet there is nothing in adequate wealth alone that is completely dependable, safe, or satisfying.
The title of the thread is indeed sad for those whom it is true yet there is nothing in adequate wealth alone that is completely dependable, safe, or satisfying.
Very well said.
Quote
Always have a plan to sleep out in the open and eat out of a tin can.
I learned this summer that I could travel around the country living off of a bicycle on $18,000 a year, even easier on $24,000. Its a possibility.
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Quote
Always have a plan to sleep out in the open and eat out of a tin can.
I learned this summer that I could travel around the country living off of a bicycle on $18,000 a year, even easier on $24,000. Its a possibility.
Originally Posted by Calvin
Lets just run some realistic math.
Start working at the age of 16. Save 2k a year till 23. Pay your way through college too.
That gives you a net worth of 12k. Not much, but a start.
Now, why don't they teach how easy that is in schools? Nothing about it is very hard. It's not hard to save money.
Start working at the age of 16. Save 2k a year till 23. Pay your way through college too.
That gives you a net worth of 12k. Not much, but a start.
Now, why don't they teach how easy that is in schools? Nothing about it is very hard. It's not hard to save money.
Sorry, but I don't buy being able to work your way through college in 5 years, pay for college, and save 2k/year. Around here college costs about $25k/year for state universities (Purdue, IU, Ball State) and private schools are $50k and over. How you gonna earn over $30k/year (remember, you have to pay taxes on that income) while going to college full time?
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Far better to be grateful when things are going well than boastful.
Reading some posts you'd think the race has ended today, when it fact today is just the beginning. It's a long run, enjoy it when it's good, be ready when it's bad and accept the fact that you don't have control over anyone but yourself.
Reading some posts you'd think the race has ended today, when it fact today is just the beginning. It's a long run, enjoy it when it's good, be ready when it's bad and accept the fact that you don't have control over anyone but yourself.
Amen. I'm not concerned with how much others make, I just consider myself challenged and blessed every day...
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Far better to be grateful when things are going well than boastful.
Reading some posts you'd think the race has ended today, when it fact today is just the beginning. It's a long run, enjoy it when it's good, be ready when it's bad and accept the fact that you don't have control over anyone but yourself.
Reading some posts you'd think the race has ended today, when it fact today is just the beginning. It's a long run, enjoy it when it's good, be ready when it's bad and accept the fact that you don't have control over anyone but yourself.
Scott;
Hopefully you know me well enough to accept my most sincere AMEN to what you've written.
You have a gift for succinct communication that I lack. Well said sir.
All the best to you folks and good luck on your hunts this fall Scott.
Dwayne
Well,...one *major* reason why boomers don't seem to have much in savings is because when boomers hit the work force as young men in their 20's, $6.00 an hour was a decent wage.
The idea of saving $7000 a year when you're grossing $12,500 a year is ludicrous.
Inflation is the destroyer of savings.
The idea of saving $7000 a year when you're grossing $12,500 a year is ludicrous.
Inflation is the destroyer of savings.
Simply put, the money that boomers were making during their productive years has been reduced to chump change from the inflation which has occurred during the past 40 years.
Now,...everything they've got squirreled away can be eaten in one bite from any number of typical health situations.
There's no real security in money,...or anything else,....except what my tagline says.
Now,...everything they've got squirreled away can be eaten in one bite from any number of typical health situations.
There's no real security in money,...or anything else,....except what my tagline says.
I am a boomer, been debt free for years.
Managed to save a little and only pay cash.
Life don't suck!
Managed to save a little and only pay cash.
Life don't suck!
Debt free here too.
But even that only provides day to day comfort.
There simply is no long term security offered by the world.
But even that only provides day to day comfort.
There simply is no long term security offered by the world.
And furthermore,...you people who want to dog on the boomer generation need to learn to do it *right*.
Here's how it's done:
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2014/09/baby-boomers-graduated-from-high-school.html
Here's how it's done:
http:/
Bristoe, your sig line says it all.
mike r
mike r
great thread
we've been lucky
yes we tried to create our own luck as others have mentioned, but I always tell folks one of my biggest challenges in day to day living is to be grateful "enough" for what we've been allowed to acquire.
been blessed in so many ways, and it could all go pretty much away overnite, or make what you have seem worthless.
millions in the bank ain't a whole lot of comfort for the loss of a loved one.
I wish all my campfire brethern the best in acquiring the material goods we desire.
but this place proves over and over again, your net worth has nada to do with your self worth or at least in my case your worth to our society.
clear eyes, decent health, a word that bonds and a firm handshake, worth more to me than all the moola.
but you guys get that.
we've been lucky
yes we tried to create our own luck as others have mentioned, but I always tell folks one of my biggest challenges in day to day living is to be grateful "enough" for what we've been allowed to acquire.
been blessed in so many ways, and it could all go pretty much away overnite, or make what you have seem worthless.
millions in the bank ain't a whole lot of comfort for the loss of a loved one.
I wish all my campfire brethern the best in acquiring the material goods we desire.
but this place proves over and over again, your net worth has nada to do with your self worth or at least in my case your worth to our society.
clear eyes, decent health, a word that bonds and a firm handshake, worth more to me than all the moola.
but you guys get that.
And because you were wise enough to invest early you at least have a chance of dealing with your misfortune. Given this thread, most don't. Good on you and your family and my sincere thoughts to your youngest son in particular.
Originally Posted by Bristoe
Well,...one *major* reason why boomers don't seem to have much in savings is because when boomers hit the work force as young men in their 20's, $6.00 an hour was a decent wage.
The idea of saving $7000 a year when you're grossing $12,500 a year is ludicrous.
Inflation is the destroyer of savings.
The idea of saving $7000 a year when you're grossing $12,500 a year is ludicrous.
Inflation is the destroyer of savings.
Obviously it was written in "today" dollars. Saving 7k a year (or 583 a month) is very doable with current wages. 12-15k would be a challange.
Wanna buy an annuity?
You have to be 80 and senile to be in that target demographic.....
PS, lots of people have taken a swipe at "boomers," and I happen to be one. No one I know in my age group has retirement savings that paltry. I'd love to see the stats for the younger wage earners, I'm betting they're worse.
PS, lots of people have taken a swipe at "boomers," and I happen to be one. No one I know in my age group has retirement savings that paltry. I'd love to see the stats for the younger wage earners, I'm betting they're worse.
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Having millions in the bank is a good way to get suicided by your kids.
What is that supposed to mean? Was it funny?
one of the things i have noticed through the years is as mama and papa who have been taking care of themselves all their lives start to get "help" from the kids when they realize what mama and papa have that haven't been taking those vacations and drive expensive cars.
And they start thinking maybe they need a "little help."
And they start thinking maybe they need a "little help."
Bigwhoop & DeFlave: Travis, I retired at age 49 (18 years ago now) and I have been "livin large" (and VERY comfortably)
ever since!
A lot of folks who have known me, over the years, have relayed how they admired my work ethic, business decisions and my financial decisions and they have often relay how they are jealous of my lengthy retirement.
Those attributes and sacrifices are paying off well now.
I don't often (ever!) toot my own horn but when accosted I will defend same.
So, don't paint all us old foggies with the same brush.
I know MANY dozens of "baby boomer" retirees who are living EXTREMELY well.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
ever since!
A lot of folks who have known me, over the years, have relayed how they admired my work ethic, business decisions and my financial decisions and they have often relay how they are jealous of my lengthy retirement.
Those attributes and sacrifices are paying off well now.
I don't often (ever!) toot my own horn but when accosted I will defend same.
So, don't paint all us old foggies with the same brush.
I know MANY dozens of "baby boomer" retirees who are living EXTREMELY well.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Originally Posted by RoninPhx
one of the things i have noticed through the years is as mama and papa who have been taking care of themselves all their lives start to get "help" from the kids when they realize what mama and papa have that haven't been taking those vacations and drive expensive cars.
And they start thinking maybe they need a "little help."
And they start thinking maybe they need a "little help."
Well apparently your children are different than mine ....see my post. Success is product of work and smarts...nothing more or less
And we don't drive expensive cars..dumb ass
Originally Posted by 10at6
Originally Posted by RoninPhx
one of the things i have noticed through the years is as mama and papa who have been taking care of themselves all their lives start to get "help" from the kids when they realize what mama and papa have that haven't been taking those vacations and drive expensive cars.
And they start thinking maybe they need a "little help."
And they start thinking maybe they need a "little help."
Well apparently your children are different than mine ....see my post. Success is product of work and smarts...nothing more or less
And we don't drive expensive cars..dumb ass
touched a nerve, did I?
I wasn't mentioning my kids anywhere in that post. But I have been in the investment world in a retirement area since 1981 and have handled many many accounts for people now gone. And since you like the phrase dumb ass, I might mention that it doesn't always work that way with work and smarts, there are things like medical issues that blind side you, and it's always kind of handy to have a rich uncle that likes you. I would like to say differently but i have had heirs ask where their check was at before the donor had cooled off properly in the ground.
I guess I am a pre boomer. Those that think Boomers are socialist and liberals must have their head up their asses. I don't know one who isn't more conservative than 95% of the people on this forum.
The Boomers sure as hell didn't vote to put Obama in office. It was the young folks who drank the Koolaid of hope and change.
I have saved well, got hit pretty good with the 2008 disaster, but recovered somewhat. I have been retired 10+ years, have a pension that I contributed to, SS that I paid into and have not touched my IRA. That is all for my wife who is younger than I by a few years. I don't live large.
The Boomers sure as hell didn't vote to put Obama in office. It was the young folks who drank the Koolaid of hope and change.
I have saved well, got hit pretty good with the 2008 disaster, but recovered somewhat. I have been retired 10+ years, have a pension that I contributed to, SS that I paid into and have not touched my IRA. That is all for my wife who is younger than I by a few years. I don't live large.
Let me guess? You handled their investments?.. All those folks with the "bad luck"? That's an unlucky coincidence.
Originally Posted by 10at6
Success is product of work and smarts...nothing more or less.
Those attributes are certainly important. There is also a degree of good fortune (luck) involved...and it also has much more to do with the grace of God than all the planning and preparation we put so much stock in.
If it was due to the grace of God I would be broke. Silly chit.
Originally Posted by EdM
If it was due to the grace of God I would be broke. Silly chit.
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
It's not ALL about the choices you make. It's also about what life happens to throw at you.
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control...
Lots of stuff can happen beyond our control...
What's silly Ed is to not realize that it's not ALL you and your hard work and your decisions that brought you whatever good fortune it is that you enjoy. Providence most certainly plays a role.
It's amusing to see all the guys claim that luck had nothing to do with it, after they were.....
Born is the greatest, most prosperous country on Earth
Born with a reasonable amount of innate intelligence
Born white
Born male
Add a modest dose of work ethic and keep him off drugs (really the only things we can claim as ours) and it'd be hard for that guy to fail.
Born is the greatest, most prosperous country on Earth
Born with a reasonable amount of innate intelligence
Born white
Born male
Add a modest dose of work ethic and keep him off drugs (really the only things we can claim as ours) and it'd be hard for that guy to fail.
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
It's amusing to see all the guys claim that luck had nothing to do with it, after they were.....
Born is the greatest, most prosperous country on Earth
Born with a reasonable amount of innate intelligence
Born white
Born male
Add a modest dose of work ethic and keep him off drugs (really the only things we can claim as ours) and it'd be hard for that guy to fail.
Born is the greatest, most prosperous country on Earth
Born with a reasonable amount of innate intelligence
Born white
Born male
Add a modest dose of work ethic and keep him off drugs (really the only things we can claim as ours) and it'd be hard for that guy to fail.
The concept of having to save a ton of money for a long retirement is relatively new. My fathers generation, WW-2 era, was the first where the majority moved away from home.
Prior to that older generations typically moved into homes with their children to live out their final years. And often on land originally owned by the previous generation. Even at that most did not have long retirements. They typically led productive lives right up until some illness led to a fairly quick death, at a young age. When SS was started they only planned on about 1/2 of all people getting a dime, and most of those for only a few years.
With today's medical care many older folks are living well into their 80's, or longer. Most are no longer productive for years and are being kept alive, and miserable, far longer than any other generation in history. My dad died a week shy of 90, mom is 84 and needs to stay in an assisted living facility. There is a 112 year old lady there.
The fact that people are living a lot longer, and needing expensive medical, often for decades, means we all need to rethink a lot of stuff.
Prior to that older generations typically moved into homes with their children to live out their final years. And often on land originally owned by the previous generation. Even at that most did not have long retirements. They typically led productive lives right up until some illness led to a fairly quick death, at a young age. When SS was started they only planned on about 1/2 of all people getting a dime, and most of those for only a few years.
With today's medical care many older folks are living well into their 80's, or longer. Most are no longer productive for years and are being kept alive, and miserable, far longer than any other generation in history. My dad died a week shy of 90, mom is 84 and needs to stay in an assisted living facility. There is a 112 year old lady there.
The fact that people are living a lot longer, and needing expensive medical, often for decades, means we all need to rethink a lot of stuff.
Originally Posted by 10at6
Let me guess? You handled their investments?.. All those folks with the "bad luck"? That's an unlucky coincidence.
boy, you really are on a roll arn't you. Hemmroids acting up?
no body said anything about "bad luck"
Ron: I am just a middle class citizen. I worked hard. Very hard to the extent I built 2 houses for my family working 10 hours at a job and 5 after. I invested (not always wisely) for 35 years. Never had a bunch of toys but more than a few rifles.
$3 MM invested is not squat when looking at future needs for retirement and inflation. I retired at 56 yo and have lucked into jobs that pay $100/hr for part time work. That involves education and skills developed through hard work.
Keeping fit is another aspect of financial "luck".
We control our own destiny and the finance is just part of this was my whole point in posting on this.
Hard work..education. skills..fitness. and learned smarts worked for me.
Again it's not a difficult path..it's just work
$3 MM invested is not squat when looking at future needs for retirement and inflation. I retired at 56 yo and have lucked into jobs that pay $100/hr for part time work. That involves education and skills developed through hard work.
Keeping fit is another aspect of financial "luck".
We control our own destiny and the finance is just part of this was my whole point in posting on this.
Hard work..education. skills..fitness. and learned smarts worked for me.
Again it's not a difficult path..it's just work
Originally Posted by 10at6
Ron: I am just a middle class citizen. I worked hard. Very hard to the extent I built 2 houses for my family working 10 hours at a job and 5 after. I invested (not always wisely) for 35 years. Never had a bunch of toys but more than a few rifles.
$3 MM invested is not squat when looking at future needs for retirement and inflation. I retired at 56 yo and have lucked into jobs that pay $100/hr for part time work. That involves education and skills developed through hard work.
Keeping fit is another aspect of financial "luck".
We control our own destiny and the finance is just part of this was my whole point in posting on this.
Hard work..education. skills..fitness. and learned smarts worked for me.
Again it's not a difficult path..it's just work
$3 MM invested is not squat when looking at future needs for retirement and inflation. I retired at 56 yo and have lucked into jobs that pay $100/hr for part time work. That involves education and skills developed through hard work.
Keeping fit is another aspect of financial "luck".
We control our own destiny and the finance is just part of this was my whole point in posting on this.
Hard work..education. skills..fitness. and learned smarts worked for me.
Again it's not a difficult path..it's just work
we find common agreement, as i agree with everything you wrote, and have been saying something similar for years. But i also think providence has something to do with it. I also think if you don't do all the above when things go against you then you are truely up against a wall.
I come from immigrant people on one side, the other side here for years but not upper class. It took me 7 years to get through college, largely cause of having to work. I had very limited support. And have been kidded forever about planning to retire since somewhere around age 20. If i hadn't planned everything, there have been several times due to illness etc i would have been wiped out.
Having said that, i know people with a LOT of money, and those with not so much. If there is magic, I think it is dealing with reasonable expectations, and living within ones means. It is that which causes so much difficulties. You can't eat steak on a pinto bean diet.
I have had ups and downs through the years anybody in the markets has. But I have accumulated much more than my predecessors have.
I also see the younger generation in the family pod. Out of quite a few grandchildren, a few "get it". I have no worries for them. The others i am not sure will ever "get it". Eventually it will bite.
I know this is long, but one of my hero's is a black guy with two advanced degrees that does estate planning via insurance. He grew up in compton.. Multimillionaire today. Asked him about that. He growned and said we all pay our dues it's when you want to pay them. As a kid he went to school got a couple of scholarships and started investing. He didn't let his race get in the way. A LOT of hard work in nother words. He said he could have done the drugs and women, but those he knew that did are mostly all dead now. I told him he really needed to be giving seminars in public schools to contra the al sharptons of the world. But I like to quote his story, which is a variation of what you wrote this last time.
Originally Posted by 10at6
Ron: I am just a middle class citizen. I worked hard. Very hard to the extent I built 2 houses for my family working 10 hours at a job and 5 after. I invested (not always wisely) for 35 years. Never had a bunch of toys but more than a few rifles.
$3 MM invested is not squat when looking at future needs for retirement and inflation. I retired at 56 yo and have lucked into jobs that pay $100/hr for part time work. That involves education and skills developed through hard work.
Keeping fit is another aspect of financial "luck".
We control our own destiny and the finance is just part of this was my whole point in posting on this.
Hard work..education. skills..fitness. and learned smarts worked for me.
Again it's not a difficult path..it's just work
$3 MM invested is not squat when looking at future needs for retirement and inflation. I retired at 56 yo and have lucked into jobs that pay $100/hr for part time work. That involves education and skills developed through hard work.
Keeping fit is another aspect of financial "luck".
We control our own destiny and the finance is just part of this was my whole point in posting on this.
Hard work..education. skills..fitness. and learned smarts worked for me.
Again it's not a difficult path..it's just work
Spot on.
There are plenty of folk who stayed healthy, worked hard, and educated themselves best they could. They don't all have a net worth worth mentioning. Providence and luck absolutely play a role. To deny that is arrogant almost beyond belief.
Originally Posted by 10at6
We control our own destiny...
Only to a degree. You have no control over it if you get pancreatic cancer, or one of your children gets brain cancer, or if your wife loses her kidneys due to disease and has to go on hemodialysis for the remainder of her life...any of those things could wipe out all of that money that you saved up due to your hard work and good decision making.
Kudos to you for your accomplishments, for your sound decision making, for your fiscal discipline, and for your hard work. I hope your good fortune continues.
I'm a boomer and, not as a rule, terribly proud of my generation. That said, we aren't a generation except for actuarial and historical purposes. We are individual people. What I have seen is that for every person who truly suffered profound setbacks in life, and I haves seen some Jim-dandies, there have been ten who pizzed away very real opportunities and lied to themselves about the reasons they never got out of life's doodoo. Just what I saw. As I have said repeatedly, believing make-believe is dangerous. It's especially bad if you tell it to yourself.
The thing I wish I would have questioned is the ubiquitous societal myth that the goal is to do all the clever, frugal and resourceful things you can to save enough money so that life can be lived out sipping sarsaparilla on a tropical beach, and the sooner the better. The truth is that retirement planning needs to be about a whole lot more than just your money. Folks rust out faster than wear out. Rusting is demoralizing. Further, there is some wisdom in allocating some well thought out expenditures when your body will do things that it will not so easily do later. It seems, in life there is an inverse correlation, with time, between assets and health. When your health is as good as it is going to be, your assets are limited. When your assets accumulate, your health may not permit enjoying them.
I guess, what I am trying to say is that financial planning and fiscal discipline are worthwhile endeavors but need to be viewed with balance and in the context of all of life's blessings.
Make good assessments of reality and don't lie to yourself.
Whew.
The thing I wish I would have questioned is the ubiquitous societal myth that the goal is to do all the clever, frugal and resourceful things you can to save enough money so that life can be lived out sipping sarsaparilla on a tropical beach, and the sooner the better. The truth is that retirement planning needs to be about a whole lot more than just your money. Folks rust out faster than wear out. Rusting is demoralizing. Further, there is some wisdom in allocating some well thought out expenditures when your body will do things that it will not so easily do later. It seems, in life there is an inverse correlation, with time, between assets and health. When your health is as good as it is going to be, your assets are limited. When your assets accumulate, your health may not permit enjoying them.
I guess, what I am trying to say is that financial planning and fiscal discipline are worthwhile endeavors but need to be viewed with balance and in the context of all of life's blessings.
Make good assessments of reality and don't lie to yourself.
Whew.
Originally Posted by oldtrapper
I'm a boomer and, not as a rule, terribly proud of my generation. That said, we aren't a generation except for actuarial and historical purposes. We are individual people. What I have seen is that for every person who truly suffered profound setbacks in life, and I haves seen some Jim-dandies, there have been ten who pizzed away very real opportunities and lied to themselves about the reasons they never got out of life's doodoo. Just what I saw. As I have said repeatedly, believing make-believe is dangerous. It's especially bad if you tell it to yourself.
That said, it's undeniable that certain life strategies are superior to others, but those who possess them may well also have been lucky in having had said strategies inculcated into them by good parents, or good life experience, or good cultural backgrounds. Pride is a constant temptation. Gratitude to God (or fate) is the minority position among the successful.
That's not to say, however, that good character and practices don't usually lead to success, since they do, and they are indeed praiseworthy. But it's only one factor, not the whole kit and caboodle.
We just buried my stepmother (my dad's second wife) last week. She turned 85 on 19 SEP. My dad would have been 92 this month on 11 Oct. I didn't know how much my dad had accumulated in his retirement portfolio until yesterday when us surviving kids (four out of seven were there) met with the family advisor.
As I look back over the year I can remember my dad teaching us about the stock market. He bought some Zambian copper mining stock call Roan Select back in the 1950 and would give us boys a monthly dividend (usually a dollar and some change) to demonstrate the wisdom of investing. He never turned on a computer in his whole life, but invested regularly in the stock market. I remember seeing him with handwritten notes on a pad of paper tracking his investments. He rose to the position of VP and Treasurer of Kerr McGee in Oklahoma City before retiring in 1984 and the age of 62.
All these years I never knew how much he had salted away, but he and my step mom (my mother and his first wife died in 1968 at age 46) sold their house in the city and moved to the lake and lived a good life. Not once did any of us kids have to help them in their old age.
So out of the simple process of getting an education, productively working in the energy sector (oil, gas, nuclear) and following his own advice he gave to us kids ... "pay yourself first," he was able to build up a $2million portfolio of stocks, bonds, and cash which provided a comfortable retirement for him and my step mom.
Now this is going to be divided seven ways and passed down to us kids and/or the surviving children (my older brother has already passed.)
The moral of the story for me is this . . . My dad followed the time honored method of delayed gratification. Pay yourself first every payday. Work in an industry that provides more than enough income to take care of your immediate needs as well as future needs. Invest early in life and let the magic of compounding work for you.
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Sperm donor's daughter who was never taught life's financial lessons.
As I look back over the year I can remember my dad teaching us about the stock market. He bought some Zambian copper mining stock call Roan Select back in the 1950 and would give us boys a monthly dividend (usually a dollar and some change) to demonstrate the wisdom of investing. He never turned on a computer in his whole life, but invested regularly in the stock market. I remember seeing him with handwritten notes on a pad of paper tracking his investments. He rose to the position of VP and Treasurer of Kerr McGee in Oklahoma City before retiring in 1984 and the age of 62.
All these years I never knew how much he had salted away, but he and my step mom (my mother and his first wife died in 1968 at age 46) sold their house in the city and moved to the lake and lived a good life. Not once did any of us kids have to help them in their old age.
So out of the simple process of getting an education, productively working in the energy sector (oil, gas, nuclear) and following his own advice he gave to us kids ... "pay yourself first," he was able to build up a $2million portfolio of stocks, bonds, and cash which provided a comfortable retirement for him and my step mom.
Now this is going to be divided seven ways and passed down to us kids and/or the surviving children (my older brother has already passed.)
The moral of the story for me is this . . . My dad followed the time honored method of delayed gratification. Pay yourself first every payday. Work in an industry that provides more than enough income to take care of your immediate needs as well as future needs. Invest early in life and let the magic of compounding work for you.
Sperm donor's daughter who was never taught life's financial lessons.
Great examples, OO.
Originally Posted by OrangeOkie
We just buried my stepmother (my dad's second wife) last week. She turned 85 on 19 SEP. My dad would have been 92 this month on 11 Oct. I didn't know how much my dad had accumulated in his retirement portfolio until yesterday when us surviving kids (four out of seven were there) met with the family advisor.
As I look back over the year I can remember my dad teaching us about the stock market. He bought some Zambian copper mining stock call Roan Select back in the 1950 and would give us boys a monthly dividend (usually a dollar and some change) to demonstrate the wisdom of investing. He never turned on a computer in his whole life, but invested regularly in the stock market. I remember seeing him with handwritten notes on a pad of paper tracking his investments. He rose to the position of VP and Treasurer of Kerr McGee in Oklahoma City before retiring in 1984 and the age of 62.
All these years I never knew how much he had salted away, but he and my step mom (my mother and his first wife died in 1968 at age 46) sold their house in the city and moved to the lake and lived a good life. Not once did any of us kids have to help them in their old age.
So out of the simple process of getting an education, productively working in the energy sector (oil, gas, nuclear) and following his own advice he gave to us kids ... "pay yourself first," he was able to build up a $2million portfolio of stocks, bonds, and cash which provided a comfortable retirement for him and my step mom.
Now this is going to be divided seven ways and passed down to us kids and/or the surviving children (my older brother has already passed.)
The moral of the story for me is this . . . My dad followed the time honored method of delayed gratification. Pay yourself first every payday. Work in an industry that provides more than enough income to take care of your immediate needs as well as future needs. Invest early in life and let the magic of compounding work for you.
Sperm donor's daughter who was never taught life's financial lessons.
As I look back over the year I can remember my dad teaching us about the stock market. He bought some Zambian copper mining stock call Roan Select back in the 1950 and would give us boys a monthly dividend (usually a dollar and some change) to demonstrate the wisdom of investing. He never turned on a computer in his whole life, but invested regularly in the stock market. I remember seeing him with handwritten notes on a pad of paper tracking his investments. He rose to the position of VP and Treasurer of Kerr McGee in Oklahoma City before retiring in 1984 and the age of 62.
All these years I never knew how much he had salted away, but he and my step mom (my mother and his first wife died in 1968 at age 46) sold their house in the city and moved to the lake and lived a good life. Not once did any of us kids have to help them in their old age.
So out of the simple process of getting an education, productively working in the energy sector (oil, gas, nuclear) and following his own advice he gave to us kids ... "pay yourself first," he was able to build up a $2million portfolio of stocks, bonds, and cash which provided a comfortable retirement for him and my step mom.
Now this is going to be divided seven ways and passed down to us kids and/or the surviving children (my older brother has already passed.)
The moral of the story for me is this . . . My dad followed the time honored method of delayed gratification. Pay yourself first every payday. Work in an industry that provides more than enough income to take care of your immediate needs as well as future needs. Invest early in life and let the magic of compounding work for you.
Sperm donor's daughter who was never taught life's financial lessons.
Richest man in Babylon is indeed a good tome for young folks.
Think Dave Ramsey does a better job for today's culture.
I got that book at about 21 from an insurance agent that had me convert a life insurance policy thus losing all the cash value I'd built up in it. He ripped me off on that transaction, but more than made up for it by giving me that book. We've used that principle "pay yourself first" our whole adult working lives. It's been key to our success.
OrangeOkie also touched upon things that need mentioning. Part of my good luck was to be raised by my maternal grandparents that had come of age during the Great Depression.
the lessons in life, love and money they taught me (particularly Pops) still pay me enormous dividends to this day.
there's no denying my "luck" having two such wonderful people love and to help raise me.
I'd give a goodly sum of what i have tucked away to put my arms around each of them and try failingly to tell them how grateful I am for their love and teachings.
Think Dave Ramsey does a better job for today's culture.
I got that book at about 21 from an insurance agent that had me convert a life insurance policy thus losing all the cash value I'd built up in it. He ripped me off on that transaction, but more than made up for it by giving me that book. We've used that principle "pay yourself first" our whole adult working lives. It's been key to our success.
OrangeOkie also touched upon things that need mentioning. Part of my good luck was to be raised by my maternal grandparents that had come of age during the Great Depression.
the lessons in life, love and money they taught me (particularly Pops) still pay me enormous dividends to this day.
there's no denying my "luck" having two such wonderful people love and to help raise me.
I'd give a goodly sum of what i have tucked away to put my arms around each of them and try failingly to tell them how grateful I am for their love and teachings.
I guess I'm of the mindset, I'm going to live life and spend money on things I enjoy now and while I'm in good enough health to do them, not save every penny for when I'm too old and broken down to wipe my own ass. I'd rather be making memories than staring at a bank statement....YMMV
Originally Posted by GreatWaputi
I guess I'm of the mindset, I'm going to live life and spend money on things I enjoy now and while I'm in good enough health to do them, not save every penny for when I'm too old and broken down to wipe my own ass. I'd rather be making memories than staring at a bank statement....YMMV
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I am saving less money every year. I believe it's from inflation. I am still investing some though, mostly a stock with a ticker FKINX. Does anyone think this is a good stock? I ask cause saving is a great idea,,,, putting it in the right places is key. Where are you posters putting your money? That is very important.
Originally Posted by ihookem
Where are you posters putting your money? That is very important.
Hookers and cocaine
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
There are plenty of folk who stayed healthy, worked hard, and educated themselves best they could. They don't all have a net worth worth mentioning. Providence and luck absolutely play a role. To deny that is arrogant almost beyond belief.
Absolutely! We grew up being Dad's 'bank' for the very modest older used cars he drove. (We boys had modest savings banked from hiring out as farm labor while Dad kept food on the table and JC Penney discount clothes on the five of us sons.) He literally had no savings accumulated and it wasn't until we were out of the house and he had retired that he and Mom managed to save. I had no idea that he had managed to bank a couple hundred thousand on a modest pension. They never splurged - although Dad did buy a brand new car - with cash- after we were all on our own. It was a Chev Cavalier wagon that gave him 200K miles and is still going though they are both gone.
All this talk about how easy it is to save makes me wonder why more companies and institutions aren't offering their employees great pension plans these days.
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
There are plenty of folk who stayed healthy, worked hard, and educated themselves best they could. They don't all have a net worth worth mentioning. Providence and luck absolutely play a role. To deny that is arrogant almost beyond belief.
No providence here. When I hired into the refinery in NorCal after graduating college my pay was exactly the same as my dear Father's, a 38 year union hating scaffold builder. From there it was my choices and capacity, not my "luck". The real sob stories do exist and, in fact, I support many with funds but for 95% of folks they just need to get off their azz and go for it. I have had a few Vietnamese neighbors that can tell their story.
Originally Posted by EdM
No providence here. ...it was my choices and capacity, not my "luck".
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Providence and luck absolutely play a role. To deny that is arrogant almost beyond belief.
Jahrs posted on another thread today that his best friend just died from brain cancer, leaving a wife and child. Really bad things happen to people through no fault of their own. These kinds of things happen to people just like you EdM every single day. If something catastrophic like that never happens to you (and I hope it doesn't)...it won't be because of your "choices and capacity"...it'll be because of providence and luck.
Bingo antlers......a majority of things that happen to us in life; are not because of what we do....but in spite of it.
My observation, in all honesty, is just the converse.
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
There are plenty of folk who stayed healthy, worked hard, and educated themselves best they could. They don't all have a net worth worth mentioning. Providence and luck absolutely play a role. To deny that is arrogant almost beyond belief.
My life experience's have been consistent with BBG's post.
I have been around plenty Like EDm and Calvin, hell my family thinks like them!
For every self made wealthy man I have known there has been dozens who have worked like dogs and been thrifty there whole life and have modest success at best.
In my world all hard work got me was more hard work.
It wasn't until I lived like a very poor person for many years and saved the majority of my pay check, then rolled the dice and invested did I become successful.
If my investment would have failed, more than likely I would have spent the rest of my years poor. I was "all in" so to speak.
I am just a coupe of years shy of being a "boomer" and to honest many of my peer's feel the boomers have gone through the economy like a swarm of locust, and left little except debt and oppressive government for us.
That being said the only way I know to succeed is hard work and smart investing and a huge dose of luck!
As others have said it's best to show appreciation rather than arrogance for your good fortunes.