Never thought I would say this, but I think we really are at the point where the only way we will take America back is with Civil War................

No it isn't.

Worked great in Syria, right?

I don't think we can take it back without it.

We have been in a civil war since inception of the country. The goals have changed with time, thankfully it has had limited bloodshed but for 4 years in our history.

As a Southerner, I can tell you it doesn't go well.

A civil war won't "take back" anything...

This forum is truly ridiculous.

someone must have played with their little green plastic soldiers today!

Some people need to take tours of actual current war zones before they decide that it should be in their yard...

I'm not talking about opposing armies.

Sounds like we have found us some cowards that won't help here ...

Mount up, what cha waitin for?

Alright, lead the way braveheart.

This:



And this:

How about just holding folks accountable? About how big government is stealing our rights and turning the country into a socialist dream land? Those folks need to know their behavior is unacceptable. No one needs to be shot. Well OK. Maybe only a few need to be publically nurtured. kwg

Most of the people who call for war have never attended one.

This.

X2. There are a few nut jobs here.

BOSNIAN SURVIVALIST

Words from a Bosnian Survivalist

Translator's note: This tale had originally been recorded in French and then translated by two Russian survivalists who met the man. The Bosnian is anonymous for reasons which will soon be made clear from reading the articles. -MicroBalrog

I am from Bosnia. You know, between 1992 and 1995, it was hell. For one year I lived, and survived, in a city with 6,000 people, without water, electricity, gasoline, medical help, civil defense, distribution service, any kind of traditional service or centralized rule.

Our city was blockaded by the army, and for one year life in the city turned into total crap. We had no army, no police, we only had armed groups - those armed protected their homes and families.

When it all started, some of us were better prepared, but most of the neighbors' families had enough food only for a few days. Some had pistols, a few had AK-47s or shotguns.

After a month or two, gangs started operating, destroying everything. Hospitals, for example, turned into slaughterhouses. There was no more police. About 80% of the hospital staff were gone. I got lucky - my family at the time was fairly large (15 people in a large house, 6 pistols, 3 AKs), and we survived (most of us, at least).

The Americans dropped MREs every 10 days, to help blockaded cities. This was never enough. Some - very few - had gardens. It took 3 months for the first rumors to spread of men dying from hunger and cold. We removed all the doors, the window frames from abandoned houses, ripped up the floors and burned the furniture for heat. Many died from diseases, especially from the water (two from my own family). We drank mostly rainwater, ate pigeons and even rats.

Money soon became worthless. We returned to an exchange. For a tin can of tushonka, you could have a woman (it is hard to speak of it, but it is true). Most of the women who sold themselves were desperate mothers.

Arms, ammunition, candles, lighters, antibiotics, gasoline, batteries and food. We fought for these things like animals. In these situations, it all changes. Men become monsters. It was disgusting.

Strength was in numbers. A man living alone getting killed and robbed would be just a matter of time, even if he was armed.

Today me and my family are well prepared, I am well armed. I have experience.

It does not matter what will happen - an earthquake, a war, a tsunami, aliens, terrorists, economic collapse, uprising. The important part is that something will happen.

Here's my experience: you can't make it on your own. Don't stay apart from your family, prepare together, choose reliable friends.

1. How to move safely in a city

The city was divided into communities along streets. Our street (15-20 homes) had patrols (5 armed men every week) to watch for gangs and for our enemies.

All the exchanges occurred in the street. About five kilometers away was an entire street for trading, all well organized, but going there was too dangerous because of the snipers. You could also get robbed by bandits. I only went there twice, when I needed something really rare (list of medicine, mainly antibiotics, of French origin).

Nobody used automobiles in the city: the streets were blocked by wreckage and by abandoned cars. Gasoline was very expensive. If one needed to go somewhere, that was done at night. Never travel alone or in groups that were too big - always 2-3 men. All armed, travel swift, in the shadows, cross streets through ruins, not along open streets.

There were many gangs 10-15 men strong, some as large as 50 men. But there were also many normal men, like you and me, fathers and grandfathers, who killed and robbed. There were no "good" and "bad" men. Most were in the middle and ready for the worst.

2. What about wood? Your home city is surrounded by woods, why did you burn doors and furniture?

There were not that many woods around the city. It was very beautiful - restaurants, cinemas, schools, even an airport. Every tree in the city and in the city park was cut down for fuel in the first two months.

Without electricity for cooking and heat - we burned anything that burned. Furniture, doors, flooring - that wood burns swiftly. We had no suburbs or suburban farms. The enemy was in the suburbs. We were surrounded. Even in the city, you never knew who was the enemy at any given point.

3. What knowledge was useful to you in that period?

To imagine the situation a bit better, you should know it was practically a return to the Stone Age.

For example, I had a container of cooking gas. But I did not use it for heat - that would be too expensive! I attached a nozzle to it I made myself and used to fill lighters. Lighters were precious.

If a man brought an empty lighter, I would fill it and he would give me a tin of food or a candle.

I was a paramedic. In these conditions, my knowledge was my wealth. Be curious and skilled. In these conditions, the ability to fix things is more valuable than gold.

Items and supplies will inevitably run out, but your skills will keep you fed.

I wish to say this: learn to fix things, shoes, or people.

My neighbor, for example, knew how to make kerosene for lamps. He never went hungry.

4. If you had 3 months to prepare now, what would you do?

Three months? Run away from the country? (joking)

Today I know everything can collapse really fast. I have a stockpile of food, hygiene items, batteries... enough to last me for 6 months.

I live in a very secure flat and own a home with a shelter in a village 5 kilometers away. Another six-month supply there too. That's a small village, most people there are well prepared. The war had taught them.

I have four weapons, and 2,000 rounds for each.

I have a garden and have learned gardening. Also I have a good instinct - you know, when everyone around you keeps telling you it'll all be fine, but I know - it will all collapse.

I have strength to do what I need to protect my family. Because when it all collapses, you must be ready to do "bad" things to keep your children alive and protect your family.

Surviving on your own is practically impossible. Even if you're armed and ready - if you're alone, you'll die. I have seen that happen many times.

Families and groups, well prepared, with skills and knowledge in various fields - that's much better.

5. What should you stockpile?

That depends. If you plan to live by theft - all you need is weapons and ammo. Lots of ammo.

If not - more food, hygiene items, batteries, accumulators, little trading items (knives, lighters, flints, soap). Also alcohol of a type that keeps well. The cheapest whiskey is a good trading item.

Many people died from insufficient hygiene. You'll need simple items in great amounts. For example, garbage bags. Lots of them. And toilet paper. Non-reusable dishes and cups - you'll need lots of them. I know that because we didn't have any at all.

As for me, a supply of hygiene items is perhaps more important than food. You can shoot a pigeon, you can find a plant to eat. You can't find or shoot any disinfectant.

Disinfectant, detergents, bleach, soap, gloves, masks...

First-aid skills, washing wounds and burns. Perhaps you will find a doctor - and will not be able to pay him.

Learn to use antibiotics. It's good to have a stockpile of them.

You should choose the simplest weapons. I carry a Glock .45, I like it, but it's a rare gun here - so I have two TT pistols too (everyone has them and ammo is common).

I don't like Kalashnikovs, but again, same story - everyone has them, so do I.

You must own small, unnoticeable items. For example: a generator is good, but 1,000 Bic lighters are better. A generator will attract attention if there's any trouble, but 1,000 lighters are compact, cheap, and can always be traded.

We usually collected rainwater into 4 large barrels and then boiled it. There was a small river, but the water in it became very dirty very fast.

It's also important to have containers for water - barrels and buckets.

6. Were gold and silver useful?

Yes. I personally traded all the gold in the house for ammunition.

Disinfectant, detergents, bleach, soap, gloves, masks...

First-aid skills, washing wounds and burns. Perhaps you will find a doctor - and will not be able to pay him.

Learn to use antibiotics. It's good to have a stockpile of them.

You should choose the simplest weapons. I carry a Glock .45, I like it, but it's a rare gun here - so I have two TT pistols too (everyone has them and ammo is common).

I don't like Kalashnikovs, but again, same story - everyone has them, so do I.

7. Was salt expensive?

Yes, but coffee and cigarettes were even more expensive. I had lots of alcohol and traded it without problems. Alcohol consumption grew over 10 times as compared to peacetime. Perhaps today it's more useful to keep a stock of cigarettes, lighters, and batteries. They take up less space.

At this time I was not a survivalist. We had no time to prepare - several days before the [bleep] hit the fan, the politicians kept repeating over the TV that everything was going according to plan, there's no reason to be concerned. When the sky fell on our heads, we took what we could.

8. Was it difficult to purchase firearms? What did you trade for arms and ammunition?

After the war, we had guns in every house. The police confiscated lots of guns at the beginning of the war. But most of them, we hid. Now I have one legal gun that I have a license for. Under the law, that's called a temporary collection. If there is unrest, the government will seize all the registered guns. Never forget that.

You know, there are many people who have one legal gun - but also illegal guns if that one gets seized. If you have good trade goods, you might be able to get a gun in a tough situation, but remember, the most difficult time is the first days, and perhaps you won't have enough time to find a weapon to protect your family. To be disarmed in a time of chaos and panic is a bad idea.

In my case - there was a man who needed a car battery for his radio, he had shotguns - I traded the accumulator for both of them. Sometimes I traded ammunition for food, and a few weeks later traded food for ammunition. Never did the trade at home, never in great amounts.

Few people knew how much, and what, I keep at home.

The most important thing is to keep as many things as possible in terms of space and money. Eventually you'll understand what is more valuable.

Correction: I'll always value weapons and ammunition the most. Second? Maybe gas masks and filters.

9. What about security?

Our defenses were very primitive. Again, we weren't ready, and we used what we could. The windows were shattered, and the roofs in a horrible state after the bombings. The windows were blocked - some with sandbags, others with rocks.

I blocked the fence gate with wreckage and garbage, and used a ladder to get across the wall. When I came home, I asked someone inside to pass over the ladder. We had a fellow on our street that completely barricaded himself in his house. He broke a hole in the wall, creating a passage for himself into the ruins of the neighbor's house. A sort of secret entrance.

Maybe this would seem strange, but the most protected houses were looted and destroyed first. In my area of the city there were beautiful houses, with walls, dogs, alarms and barred windows. People attacked them first. Some held out, others didn't - it all depended how many hands and guns they had inside...

I think defense is very important - but it must be carried out unobtrusively. If you are in a city and SHTF comes, you need a simple, non-flashy place, with lots of guns and ammo.

How much ammo? As much as possible.

Make your house as unattractive as you can.

Right now I own a steel door, but that's just against the first wave of chaos. After that passes, I will leave the city to rejoin a larger group of people, my friends and family.

There were some situations during the war... there's no need for details, but we always had superior firepower, and a brick wall, on our side.

We also constantly kept someone watching the streets. Quality organization is paramount in case of gang attacks.

Shooting was constantly heard in the city.

Our perimeter was defended primitively - all the exits were barricaded and had little firing slits. Inside we had at least five family members ready for battle at any time, and one man in the street, hidden in a shelter.

We stayed home through the day to avoid sniper fire.

At first, the weak perish. Then the rest fight.

During the day, the streets were practically empty due to sniper fire. Defenses were oriented towards short-range combat alone. Many died if they went out to gather information, for example. It's important to remember we had no information, no radio, no TV - only rumors and nothing else.

There was no organized army, every man fought. We had no choice. Everybody was armed, ready to defend themselves.

You should not wear quality items in the city - someone will murder you and take them. Don't even carry a "pretty" long arm, it will attract attention.

Let me tell you something: if SHTF starts tomorrow, I'll be humble. I'll look like everyone else. Desperate, fearful. Maybe I'll even shout and cry a little bit.

Pretty clothing is excluded altogether. I will not go out in my new tactical outfit to shout: "I have come! You're doomed, bad guys!" No, I'll stay aside, well armed, well prepared, waiting and evaluating my possibilities, with my best friend or brother.

Super-defenses, super-guns are meaningless. If people think they should steal your things, that you're profitable - they will. It's only a question of time and the amount of guns and hands.

10. How was the situation with toilets?

We used shovels and a patch of earth near the house. Does it seem dirty? It was. We washed with rainwater or in the river - but most of the time the latter was too dangerous. We had no toilet paper, and if we had any, I would have traded it away.

It was a "dirty" business.

Let me give you a piece of advice: you need guns and ammo first - and second, everything else. Literally EVERYTHING! All depends on the space and money you have.

If you forget something, there'll always be someone to trade with for it - but if you forget weapons and ammo, there will be no access to trading for you.

I don't think big families are extra mouths. Big families means both more guns and strength - and from there, everyone prepares on his own.

11. How did people treat the sick and the injured?

Most injuries were from gunfire. Without a specialist and without equipment, if an injured man found a doctor somewhere, he had about a 30% chance of survival.

It ain't the movies. People died. Many died from infections of superficial wounds. I had antibiotics for 3-4 uses - for the family, of course.

People died foolishly quite often. Simple diarrhea will kill you in a few days without medicine, with limited amounts of water.

There were many skin diseases and food poisonings... nothing to it.

Many used local plants and pure alcohol - enough for the short term, but useless in the long term.

Hygiene is very important... as well as having as much medicine as possible. Especially antibiotics.

We have a mess of a country, but we are a very long way from civil war. A civil war is much, much more messy than what we have.

War is also very risky business. There is no telling what would emerge from the ashes. Odds are poor that it would be an improvement over what we have.

There is much more to be gained from being active and involved in the political process.

Nah.

War of any kind is pretty much mass insanity and there's no telling what waits at the end of it.

Besides, I don't think the people of America are enough in tune to any *real* type of ideology to get worked up enough to have a war. People are just tuning out and not even participating in that government stuff any more than necessary,...and that's a good thing.

I've posted it before, but this essay by Karen Kwiatkowski sums the situation up about as well as anything I've read.

People are just going to learn to live apart from the government mess.

Very good read,..

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/kwiatkowski192.html

Excerpt:

There seems to be no effective way to save or restore the republic, no way for any individual to even begin to solve the problem of our late 20th and early 21st century imperialism. I tend to agree, and the wisest observers in these pages warn, as Chris Floyd does, "It is pointless � and counterproductive � to simply throw yourself under the wheels of such a monstrous machine in futile spasms of rage and despair. The machine doesn't care. It will gladly chew up your life and move on."
____________________________________________

Recognition of reality is liberating. When Jesus said, "the Truth will set you free," I'm not sure he was directly speaking of the governments of men. But recognizing the unreality of a once treasured concept � in our American case, a vibrant past and future republic, may in fact free us to do what we need to do.

"And what is that, exactly?" you ask.

Recognize that the republic is dead, and that we owe its rotting bloated corpse no loyalty whatsoever.
_____________________________________________

We face a modern American state more overweening and dictatorial than even King George III could imagine, yet we have no declaration of independence, no privileged elite to demand it, no interested population to read and debate it. This time, our declaration will be made individually, every day, in calm desperate fearlessness, as we simply live free.

We took one third of the power away in 2010.
We took two thirds of the power last week.

Two down, one to go...

Well,....mostly *we* voted for "none of the above".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rnout-in-2014-was-the-lowest-since-wwii/

General election voter turnout for the 2014 midterms was the lowest it's been in any election cycle since World War II, according to early projections by the United States Election Project.

Just 36.4 percent of the voting-eligible population cast ballots as of last Tuesday, continuing a steady decline in midterm voter participation that has spanned several decades.

We took two thirds of the power last week.

we-we-we all the way home

That's the only "we" there is.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

,...almost ready to hit 18 trillion dollars.

Ain't nobody got 18 trillion dollars. So,..you might as well go fishing on election day.

You might actually catch something to eat if you go fishing. You ain't gonna catch nothing by going voting.

Ain't nothing there to catch.

Keep telling yourself that cupcake. The Koolaid must be good.

Well, I am just totally fed up with the liberal press manipulating our news to suit their lies. It is to the point where it is total BS.

So what exactly would we be fighting to get back?

This made my skin crawl. Anybody who thinks this would be good for this country is a fokking moron.

I've been to actual war. You?

It'd be a Revolution, not a Civil War. Just sayin.

Sorry, it always bugs me when the term Civil War is used incorrectly. Carry on with the sillyness

I don't think it would be either. Balkanization would be the result and you'd have war among the regions.

Like I said, it wouldn't "take back" anything. It would destroy everything.

I believe war is necessary sometimes. But it should be a last resort and on someone else's soil.

At home, you pray for a political revolution as your worst case scenario

You're just noticing that?

How much help do you need to talk tough on the internet, since that is all most will ever do?

The ones who will act aren't talking at all

I couldn't have said it better.

Reminds of a quote from an elderly Confederate veteran attending a reunion at Fredericksburg, the gist went...

"Many people today are still fighting that war, those of us who were actually in it are just glad that its over."

Birdwatcher

WAR huu good god what is it good for absolutely nothing. Anybody feel like dancing?

Edwin Starr, 1970

Any notion of the need for war is just stupid. Won't be a civil war and most certainly won't be a war among super powers unless you want the world you live in to end....

There seems to be a burgeoning undercurrent of animosity between certain groups of people in this country, which has intensified dramatically since BHO took office with his cohort of progressives, dependents and race hustlers�

A wide scale civil shooting war? Not a chance!. However pockets of social unrest will likely increase as we continue to degrade. For example, the Ferguson verdict from the GJ could be tragic, and if located there I would be ready for some type of serious and potentially deadly conflagration.

People nowadays are stupefied by their sports teams, television, social media, computer gaming, and various forms of tawdry entertainment. As long as the pabulum flows and keeps the populace stupefied, the tide will not turn�.Reminds me of the retired law man in "No Country for Old Men" talking to TLJ about the rising of the "dismal tide."

I hold a biblical word view, so what is happening now is highly predictable. Get used to seeing a lot more societal degradation. All once can do is to continue to resist with one's values, voting, volunteering for good causes, self sufficiency, staying tight with like minded family and friends, and consistent upright daily behavior. It also seems to help to get away outdoors a lot to provide further contrast.

it all depends on which outside groups support the effort. Right?

I tend to think like you. I can't think of a living soul that I hate. When it does hit the fan I'll stay close, mind my own business as long as "they" will let me and do what I can for family and friends.

My kids seem to think that, as an owner of weapons and ammo, I'm sitting and waiting for somebody to come onto the property just so I can shoot them. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am trying to be prepared for survival. That's all. (Getting to shoot a goblin is just gravy.)

always good to see the voices of reason speak out

I understand the anger and frustration as our way of life seems to be under continual attack

still in my mind killing another human being should be held as our last resort as responsible owners of firearms

I agree. You'd have enjoyed this one dude that we used to have here that called himself 280Don. He's long gone though.

Most likely...and if a civil war ever did break out here, who's to say we wouldn't end up with an even more oppressive form of govt. I'm not fond of some of the things going on with our govt. but the best way to effect change is with a BALLOT

I don't disagree, but I'm confused.

Given that the democratic process is now officially a joke, and most of the politicians you might try to charge with something will claim sovereign immunity, how do you propose to hold folks accountable without shooting them?

If you happen to have a quantity of decent blackmail material, that's a non-violent opportunity for accountability; but if you don't (and politicians are getting harder and harder to blackmail because they're more and more willing to admit it--no, proclaim it--publicly anyway) then what else is there?

And when you back off and look at it dispassionately, what would you be holding them accountable for anyway? Just being politicians, right? Everybody understands that politicians are corrupt lying weasels; isn't it kind of unfair to put them in a position of power and then punish them for following the nature you knew in your bones they had when you put them there?

Let's be straight with ourselves. When a politician promises us something, and we believe him and send him to Washington, and he screws us over, whose fault is that really? His, or ours?

I'm with you...except that I'm more interested in the extralegal political process than trying to reform the franchise.

I don't think we're going to be able to pry the bad ones out (of course I think they're all bad ones, but I understand that some disagree with me), and I don't think any that get in--regardless of their intentions--will be able to make anything but the most cosmetic changes.

So instead of spending effort trying to get the right people into office and the wrong people out, how about spending that effort trying to make the offices themselves more and more irrelevant and powerless? Then their success in the corruption of the franchise would remain, but it would have less and less effect.

Any true threat of civil war ,and the ,and the second admendment is abolished.It don't mater whether Democrates,or Republicans are in power,any form of threat to their power,or their masters(Big Corperate power)will not be tolerated.Look how fast Hoover ,and McArther turned on the WW1 vets,and how Harding used the U.S.Army against the miners on Blair Mountain.He even sent planes from fort Cambel to bomb them.It really proves who really pulls the strings in this country when the armed forces are used as corperate mussel ..Both parties are dirty,and rotten.We need a fresh start,but the only true way for positive change is political reform from time to time.When ever you blindly vote a straight ticket you get the good,and the worse in the party,and usely their campains are completly financed by outside intrest.Do you really think they expect nothing in return?..

It's why I am not optimistic regarding the eventual state of this nation. If a carbon atom is the smallest, indivisible part of any living, organic being, the carbon atom of The Scriptures is that, man by his nature abuses and eventually ruins every good thing. Pardon this thought from Theology 101, but it is at the heart of man's living, breathing, and acting in all spheres of life.

Consequently, we have the inevitable Cycle of Nations which begins with "bondage" and eventually ends there again. Obviously, "nations," means we are talking corporately. Certainly, there may be cultures and regions, and certainly, individuals who don't follow this path in lock-step or even at all, but the critical threshold of man's nature emanating through the body politic will get us there.

We don't need a Civil War, there is zero reason for that kind of bloodshed. But where we are heading is a lot more like Nazi Germany and Cold War Soviet Union, than America.

Threads like this show that as a group, we've traded the love of freedom, for the safety of status quo. We've lost the will to do what is right, unless it's convenient and there is a Starbucks close by.

All empires fall. Study history, and you have a guide to what is likely happening and what may follow. Guessing at what comes or what should come is a fool's game.

I think it's going to look a lot more like Mad Max.

Want to shut down the Government?Nobody pay your taxes.Refuse to have tax with held from your paycheck or take a bazzilion deductions.Start your own Church and have your paycheck donated to The Church.Don`t support any Politicians.Its hard to phuc up stuff when you have no money or support.

I want his car....and the dog!

If the US government goes belly up, your paycheck will be worthless. Dollars will be just paper.

The entire world pretty much runs on the US dollar. Without a viable and operating US government, the entire world financial system would collapse.

That won't help, Huntz. They will just borrow the money and keep on going.

Quite right. And isn't it incredible that there are a bunch of folks, even some on this board, who are so foolish as to think that collapse would be a good thing?

most of them don't leave the house, so living in a cave wouldn't be much of a change.

This is my take. History repeats itself.

I don't know anyone who wants a collapse. I'm familiar with many who believe that it's inevitable. I also know of many who would like a reconfiguration of the country so they could get out from under the thumb of the mess that passes for government these days.

And actually,..the collapse has already occurred. It just hasn't been made overly evident.

The Federal Reserve is playing a lot of games to keep the collapse from becoming obvious for as long as possible. But once a country racks up more debt than it can ever hope to pay, it's done for.

Even the "official" figures show America to be 18 trillion dollars in debt and racking up more debt at the rate of 800 billion dollars a year,...and the official numbers leave out more than they acknowledge.

That's "end game". It's just a matter of time until the other shoe drops.

Whether that's a foolish notion or not is probably moot, because whether or not it's good it seems clear that collapse is coming, sooner or later. We can't keep going the way we are, and by now we're so overextended that backing off just a little will cause that collapse.

The trick, I think, might be to have a mature, well-formed shadow economy underneath the collapsing fiat economy waiting to catch the victims of the collapse.

Not civil war, but I do see an uprising by Consitution loving individuals that will either be supported or crushed by the courts after this fascist government puts them in jail.

That's exactly what China has created.

Right, your vote counts.

AMEN Brother, as well as read some actual accounts of our Civil War.

I say UNPLUG from social media, Cable/Dish TV, get involved with your local community and DO SOMETHING to help the truly poor get out of poverty.

"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, TEACH him to fish and he eats for life."

THERE IT IS!

Bingo ^


US$ is rising currently but only cause she's the prettiest of all the ugly sisters

and as Rancho stated, the whole world will tremble if the US$ falls


other countries are already trying to insulate themselves from it in trade agreements

The car is situated outside the Silverton Pub, west of Broken Hill in New South Wales last time i saw it. That is where the MM movies were made.

http://www.silverton.org.au/hotel.htm

That's awesome! Thanks.

They have an entire MM museum. Looks like a fun place to spend an afternoon/weekend!!

Informative reading... Bump

If the progressives retain power through 2016 I do believe several states within in the bible belt will initiate secessionist movements. None too soon in my opinion.


DMc

Texas A&M was notified yesterday that they were winners of the 1958 National College Hide & Seek Championship! They discovered the skeleton under the steps of the campus library!!

That's the truth.

This reminds me of when Big Jim Folsom was governor of Alabama. His opposition got him drunk and paid a "lady of the evening" to lure him into a motel/hotel room. When they got into the room some photographers came in a got pictures of Big Jim with the woman. When Big Jim was blackmailed he got before the press and said, (paraphrased) "Well, let me tell y'all right now. When you bait a trap with whiskey and wimmen you'll catch Big Jim every time." He won that election going away.

A goat has to be involved to make people think any less of a politician these days,...and it helps if it's a particularly ugly goat.

The dollar will be worth nothing anyway as soon as The Fed stops printing more money with no backing.The Chinese Currency will be the New Dollar.

The dollar turns into nothing, so does china. And they know it.

Do you remember the Jimmy Carter years? We learned some valuable lessons and the political right helped shape a rebirth of America. Unfortunately we forgot all of those lessons when bill clinton got elected. (the liberal press helped steal the election for bill) Hopefully, when we get rid of Mr.O we can get rid of those politicians who are only looking out for themselves and the love political power.

That means we have to stay on top of them. We cannot afford to put American politicians especially at the federal level on autopilot. They have to know their every move is being watched and we expect them to act responsibility. Learn the lessons, adjust fire and move on.

kwg

Who needs civil war, just run over the pricks

and if it's a muslim politician, the goat is a resume enhancer.

and if you feel the need to drive through the protesters, do it quickly, don't stop, keep going. Do it before the numbers get so great that they will pile up dead under your wheels.

You overstate the importance of the Dollar, worldwide.

Wrong!
Following WW 11, there was the Bretton Woods agreement, the dollar was to be backed by gold, and was to be the world reserve currency. As good as gold was the moto.

The U.S. violated the terms of Bretton Woods, so they established the petro dollar and that extended the status of the dollar as the reserve currency.

Currently, China and Russia and the far east is purchasing the worlds gold reserve. It only stands to reason they are doing so to challenge the dollars status as a reserve currency.
Can they pull it off? who knows.

If you study the history of currency every "fiat" currency has failed!!

The dollars value is based on perception and the governments ability to tax the American citizen.

The rest of the world is at a disadvantage competing with the dollar.
They are not happy with that! We export our inflation.

We are turning into a country of deep debt, little actual production of goods etc...

We hamstring ourselves with environmental laws, excessive tax's and regulation etc...

We have dumbed down our citizens with pathetic public schools, we have invited and subsidized uneducated third world immigrants, who are a burden on our entitlements and the backs of the productive tax payers.

We have a huge government bureaucracy that cost us a fortune and produces nothing, in fact they hinder the productive people!

This path is not sustainable and other countries resent and hate us because of it, we are the fat spoiled rich kid!

Russia is one of the largest energy producers in the world and China is one of the largest energy consumers and they have recently established trade agreements to bypass the petro dollar and trade in their currencies or gold.

China and the rest of the world is delinking themselves from the dollar as we speak.
When it crashes they want to come out on top!

The old saying he who has the gold makes the rules, may be more true than we know?

My brother and I had basket full. We called them "The Men."

We had Cowboys and Indians with names like Blackie and Bluie. Some had horses but most didn't. We used our shoes and sneakers as forts.

We also had what seemed like a division of WW II soldiers with Jeeps, tanks, and half tracks.

We had blue Union soldiers and gray Confederate soldiers and we Civil Warred regularly.

We played for hours after school.

18 trillion is solvable. The unfunded liabilities are not. See the bottom line, right of center.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

I spent half of my allowance on the dam things.
The green (Americans) and grey (Germans) ones.
I'd stage a battle in the yard and then run the old reel type push mower through the battle field. The side with the least losses won the battle until next week when I'd buy reinforcements and start over again.

ir--good post.

Never happen. The Chinese are still protecting its value, by not letting it fully float against other currencies. By the way, it's called the "yuan". If you were in a 3rd World country and needed to bribe someone to get out, would you rather have US Dollars or Chinese Yuan? I know which one I'd take, which is the real value of the currency. Second for me would be the British Pound. The Yuan might make the top ten, but I doubt it.

If we keep printing money backed by nothing and another country has a sound currency backed by something.
You may be the only person preferring dollars, you would lose!

What form of Government do you propose to replace it with after your Civil War? One where the people vote? who gets to make those decisions...

I wonder if someone asked this in 1775?

I don't tbink there will ever be a civil war. We will continue to give ground and liberties until the US is just an aberation of history.

Jim

+1

We simply need to go back to what the constitution says.
The collapse wont be the fault of capitalism, it will be the fault of socialism!

We have much higher gold reserves than China (or anyone else).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve

Is that why they wont let Ron Paul audit the federal reserve?
What are they hiding?

I don't think any political ideology is driving the people who control this country.

They're just elite globalists. Everything they do is to benefit the elite globalists.

The well being of the people doesn't matter to them beyond the ability of the people to generate revenue for the government.

Last year Germany wanted to repatriate their gold and they were told it would take seven years?
They asked to view it and were told no, we arent set up for that?
They finally were able to send a small amount to Germany and the serial numbers were newly minted bars.
So what happened to the bars Germany had the fed hold?

Bristoe,
You may be correct? I am watching the hunger games as I type this, maybe thats our future?

Picking up your guns and killing Americans is a sorry excuse because we can't get our point of view across.

If you care enough, go to school, become a teacher, THAT is where we are losing the Civil War.

Wrong.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...new-york-in-rebuff-to-euro-doubters.html

Good luck teaching the entitlement crowd they have to be responsible and productive.

Killing people is almost never the answer and I believe we are a long ways from that.

The people haven't begun to suffer enough for that.

Oh, so they suddenly changed their minds? really? Do you believe that?

Yeah, I do. It was a fringe anti-EU party that wanted to bring the gold home. Do you really think that Germany would let it slide if they thought that we did something with their gold?

Political games? then again we may never know, time will tell?

My wife stated she was quitting the media for awhile; just too sad and depressing, and the part about helping others advance does as much for one's outlook and mental health as it does the recipient.

Where do you think the entitlement crowd learns it?

Kids today are only as screwed up as their screwed up parents raised them to be and allowed them to be.

Most were not raised by their parents. They were raised by the public school system, and more is the pity.

Im actually very impressed with the responses to this.
The reason I posted this was for ill feelings over the way we seem to be stonewalled by liberals in this country.

I believe our constitution is very good, but look how the liberals and democrats seem to want to bypass it, or runover it. Hello, people, earth to humans, if we cant get the dems to obide by our rule of law, we are in deep doo doo...............that's the point

If I lived in CA I would be ready to go postal too.

The (5) billionaires that outspent gun owners 16:1 on the draconian anti gun I-594 in WA state 12 days ago have me feeling like fight or flight.

Nah - ya just use one of these:





Interesting to read all the above posts.. We have quite the assortment of pacifists, theorists, war-mongers, realists, pragmatists...along with those with a load of experience and those with zero..

I do agree that the story of the Bosnian survivalist brings reality to the forefront.. And it's a story well worth the read..

Many above are sure right about one thing though - the collapse is definitely coming - sooner or later - and it's a wise family that strives to be in a position to mitigate the result..

Only congress can give us back our country by erasing the last 20 years. But a civil war after a few genocides would give us a new country to build.

Not confusing hopes with expectations here, but I am very pessimistic about the course we are on. Lot's of anger to go around, many little pimples that could pop at the wrong time and wrong way and the next thing you know we have blood on the streets. Where it leads is anybody's guess.

Our national problems reach all the way to bedrock and will either be difficult or impossible to solve. Social issues may be more tractable than fiscal issues, and perhaps both pale in the face of global unrest. Our infrastructure is severely pressed and aging and it seems that few have the stones to meet these issues head on. Where it leads, nobody knows.

I do know this and a few of you do as well. There is a vast gulf between Hollywood's version of war and reality. The reality of warfare is a serious challenge to the average soul. You'll see and do things never imagined, that you will never forget and never wish to repeat. Ugly redefined.

Don't get in too much of a hurry to be a Rambo protege. If forced to go there, don't forget the reason for the drill and put compassion in the back of the locker. Don't spend a lot of time celebrating small victories because horror is just around the corner, waiting to pizz on your parade.

All of this can be fixed by peaceful means, it just requires a nutsack and nutsacks are a rare commodity these days in the U.S.

There is a reason empires fall, those that could make a difference are, through the inherent prosperity of an empire, too soft, complacent and lack the will necessary to do what is required.

The U.S. can't vote it's way out of this issue nor can Congress fix it. The left has loaded the dice with millions and millions of new voters bribed by freebies and promises.

The only way to fix this problem, short of Civil War is to peaceably carve the country in two, those that exemplify American ideals will gravitate to the half that supports such idealism and those looking for freebies and handouts will gravitate to the other.

Half will always be better than nothing and nothing is the next stop on the roadmap.

BUMP

I believe that our situation could be considerably improved if the states called a constitutional convention.

There are many who fear this, since they think that the outcome is unpredictable. I think their fears are unfounded, since a large majority of states must ratify any changes and that alone would stop any ridiculous changes.

A year or two ago, a list of about 10 new amendments was circulating, and some of them seemed quite sensible.

Among the amendments was a cap on federal revenues as a percentage of
GDP. With some sort of safety valve for times of war, that makes a lot of sense to me: The beast runs on money. Limit its size and reach by limiting its money.

In our state at least, most of the state budget is money supplied by the federal government and the federal government does a lot of social engineering with strings attached to that money. I could see an amendment that curbed that. One suggestion is that federal money comes in block grants with no strings, and another is that taxes are collected by the states and forwarded to the federal government.

I could support an amendment allowing 2/3 of the state legislatures to override a federal law or regulation.

Right now, there is no mechanism for recalling a US Senator who needs to be recalled. While I do think direct election of Senators is a good idea, I think a supermajority in both houses of a state legislature ought to be able to send a Senator packing.

The Supreme Court has gutted the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the Constitution. An amendment to put that straight would be a good thing in my opinion.

And I think that we need to clarify and limit the government's ability to take private property, such as eminent domain and law enforcement seizure of money or property without the filing of charges.

I'd be happy with strengthening the 4th Amendment. Government spying is just out of hand.

Rebalance things a bit to curb some of the worst abuses, and I think things could be a lot better.

The state convention doesn't actually have to pass any amendments at all in order to be effective. It just has to look like a credible threat, and Congress will be forced to pass laws that accomplish much of the same intent in order to take the steam out of the movement to pass the amendments.

All very sensible - as usual..

Guess I'm one of those cowards you're talking about. I've been to war and I sure as hell don't want one to take place in America.

Of course, The members of the uber-warrior he-man dick measuring and weekend war movie club may think differently.

The only way to "fix" this country is to take back control of our money system from the private, global banksters that own it now.

�Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws.� Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812)

Look at the history of revolutions. The high ideas almost never come to fruition.

We have to look at the nature of the American Revolutionary war. A war against a colonial power is decidedly different than one against a residential government. Essentially we drove what became a foreign invader out. We did not destroy it, we drove it out. In what you are talking here, you could not drive it out, you would have to destroy it.

Also, Great Britain did not have the option of bringing its full weight against America. To do so would require it to move assets from other areas it considered just as valuable. They then would be subject to attack in those areas. Had Great Britain been able to bring the full weight of its military against America we likely would have lost.

But we have a sitting government, indigenous to the United States. A revolution against it would bring its full weight, not to mention the U.N. forces. Since China has such a large investment here, I would expect Chinese troops on every street corner. Potentially millions of them.

I don't think a revolution, which you term as a civil war, would be a return to the founding principles, even if you won. I more think it would be like the French Revolution, and the bulk of revolutions that follow that line.

The constitution is just a piece of paper that can't protect us.
We have to protect it.
The longer we are passive or reactive, the more opportunities the collectivists get.
Just read the two week old gun control laws for WA state, and get a feel for how the enemy is advancing.

No argument with that. But maintaining the status quo is priority #1 with both parties, all 3 branches of the government, the military, and at *least* half the population of the country.

There's no support for initiating any *real* change in the way the country is configured.

Hell,...you can't even get people to consider voting third party.

There are producers and there are beggars.
As Jefferson said, the difference between whigs and tories is ancient and precedes governments.

But there are two types of beggars.
Those that want 50% GDP like a parasite [attorneys].
Those that want 100% GDP like a predator [teacher's union].

With only democracy and a free press and public schools operated by liberals, the advance of collectism will stop at 50% of GDP.

To get 100% Marxism, they will need to take your guns.

Empires fall because they overextend and overspend. They devalue their currency to try and keep up. They then become internally oppressive to stifle dissent and collect more and more of the depreciated currency in the form of taxes.

In the end, they become so bad that half the population doesn't care if they fail and the other half is actively hoping for it so that it can get some relief. Sound familiar?

In the later days of the Roman empire, the job of a tax collector was so unpopular and difficult, that a law was passed that mandated that the sons of tax collectors had to follow in the footsteps of their fathers and become tax collectors themselves. In the end, people found life much better under the by then, thoroughly civilized and Romanized barbarians than they did under the yoke of the empire. It was, and is possible for civilization to exist without trying to run the world.

Governments fall only when the money is no good.
There are no exceptions.

But that is like saying people die only when their heart stops beating. The cause effect vector may point to or from the heart.

A clinton Vs bush jack-fest might sway a few.

Or,..blow your house and 10 acres of land up with a drone attack,...from the comfort of their office while enjoying a morning cup of coffee.

It's not 1776 any more.

I worked on drone design in the 80s.
I don't know what is going on now, but they cost more than a house.

They don't cost more than a revolution.

After he won 49 states, the libs got rid Nixon without an impeachment. Just the threat.

You prepare for war to avoid war.

I think we should just give up. Country's not worth fighting for.

But we've already tried the whole limit-the-scope-of-government-by-writing-words-on-paper thing. It doesn't work. Maybe you think it's because we haven't written the right words yet; but the fact is that before the ink is dry on whatever words you pick, the government will already have begun finding its way around, over, and through them.

Words can't limit government. We've seen that repeatedly in this country.

Guns can't limit government. Look what Saddam Hussein was able to do to Iraq even though you could hardly walk anywhere without AK-47s and RPGs crunching underfoot.

Economics can limit government.

That's where the answer lies, I think, if there is one. Peaceful, extralegal economic rebellion.

Just might work again. With Obama.

Not as long as there is the panacea of the printing presses.

That appears to be the universal opinion. It's just one that I don't happen to hold.

Well,...if someone suggested flying to the moon with a hang glider I'd say that they should get over that idea, also.

Good thing we weren't around in 1776.

It only took 3 percent then.

Well count me in. This is a really big country. How many drones do they have?

There were huge numbers of "Americans" that held the same viewpoint during the Revolution.

But they (of course) stood on the sidelines while the men slaughtered Brits.



Travis

Maybe we'll have to find out how many men there are in this country.

You won't discover that until things are worth fighting for. And we're a long ways from that.



Travis

You first gotta be willin'. How many are?

I don't think your thesis holds water, my friend. The 13th Amendment does seem to have put an end to slavery. The 22nd Amendment seems to have pretty well ended people being elected to more than two terms as President. And the 24th Amendment put an end to the power of government to impose poll taxes. Heller and McDonald seriously curtailed the ability of government to ban handguns.

While I'll agree that turning off the money supply is probably one of the most effective means of limiting government, Constitutional amendments and Supreme Court decisions do change and limit the course of government actions.

Still, anyone who has tried to keep pigs penned up will immediately recognize the difficulties involved in keeping government within bounds.

Barak has made the best point. The best revolt we could platform is an economic embargo to the government. A mass, nation wide boycott of paying taxes would be the most peaceful method on behalf of the people; although no telling how the politicos would react when their personal power dried up from lack of funds.

Perhaps the supporters of the great Civil War herein could implore Eric Frein of NE Pennsylvania to lead the battle. Oh wait, he won't be available for the next 100+ years or so following his trial for killing a PA State Trooper. Maybe there's a lesson here.


see: http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-eric-frein-charged-terrorism-20141113-story.html

If you need an idea of how many people might be fed up, use your own examples. Then try and apply it to everybody you know. Would they care? Would they be indifferent? Would they care but not enough to act?



Travis

Laughin'...

Barak is an idiot. It will take much more than that to influence those in power.



Travis

Not when the majority voted for Bammy. You want a revolution? Cut off their freebies.

Only the most statist, fascist, socialist-communist among us could not think this government is in need of reform.

I know the answer, mine was a generally rhetorical question, more musing than anything.

Whatever your opinion of Barak is, economic revolt is the most peaceful method of revolt available.

Define "freebies."




Travis

Whatever your opinion of 'flave is, you're going to have a tough [bleep]' time finding a government that was overturned by "economic revolt."



Travis

Yes, the government does need reform, but the question is, in what direction. It seems that many (on both sides) want it to go only their way (more to the left or more to the right). Compromise and agreement on common principals is not in the cards. This could lead to violence and anarchy and, no good result.

Which will be the only thing whatsoever that may actually start this "civil war" that they're dreaming about. Until then, all of the warmongers are simply pissing in the wind. The vast majority of the great unwashed masses will continue going along with doing what they're told, until such time as the prospect of armed revolt becomes the more attractive option for them. As long as they have the Kardassians, the NFL, Nascar, the newest comic book movie, and anonymous internet forums to vent their frustration on, then nothing will happen.

Welfare, phones, t.v.'s, extended unemployment payments, about unlimited access to "disability" entitlements, free ride services for docs and shopping, free bus rides with a token, food bank, free turkeys for Thanksgiving delivered to their door, utilities assistance payments,,,,,and etc.

Come to Louisiana, you'll love it.

Might be fighting side by side with these guys, but sure ain't gonna like it.

Nothing wrong with Flave that a good GFY wouldn't fix. While he's doing that he can brush up on the history of the Soviet Union, Egypt, Greece, Persia, Great Brittan, to start.

Doubt it. Different mindsets, different causes.

Dick, we read a different set of books, I'm thinking.

Americans gave them all of those things.

Gave it to them.

How are you going to change that?



Travis

I would say compromise and the lack of agreement on common principals has already lead to violence and anarchy.

Holy fugg... My stomach is gettin' sore. No need for toes to bars tomorrow.

Thanks dude!



Travis

Ole Twat, how so?

I would say all the soccer moms not having to deal with reality has brought us where we are today.

But fear not. Once reality strikes? Revolution won't require any spurs.



Travis

Don't be coy, you know you're one of my Flaveoriate poster.

Thus, the revolution. And, I'm finding it harder and harder to associate "Americans" and "politicians" in the same present realm that we "enjoy" in the here and now. Seem to be 2 different animules.

How about the productive people just quit producing?
That may happen by default, the government seems to be hindering our ability to produce.

How powerful can a government be on the world stage without a productive citizenry.

That being said, a tyrannical government such as what ours is turning into can sure make life miserable for it's citizens!

If I was government I would not worry about angry productive people, I would worry about the entitlement crowd. Cut them off and you will see violence.

The productive people just seem to keep plugging away and playing by the rules.

It certainly seems that is obama's plan. I think he would delight in seeing the US ruined; as long as it doesn't affect his immediate power. It is a much slower process.

The IRS is trained to confiscate at gun point

http://www.wyff4.com/news/local-new...ining-with-semiautomatic-rifles/20537966

Then your assets will be sold to the highest bidder.

I don't believe he wants to ruin the U.S., just the white middle class and wealthy white male.
He believes we have what we have because we have exploited and taken from his constituents.
Therefore redistribution is needed.
He is simply using lib's as useful idiots!

Kinda like Mugabe in Zimbabwe and the white farmers, he took the farms by force and now they no longer produce. Then he decided to print money to make up for the lack of production. BRILLIANT!

Under Obama we just may achieve third word status?

No fan of Obama here,...but all this stuff started long before he arrived on the scene. It was a while ago that the government greased the skids for American manufacturing to move out of the country.

Manufacturing is the most direct way to create real wealth,..also,

No manufacturing = large trade deficit.

One man, or even one administration doesn't set the course for this country.

The powers that be decided long ago that American workers were too expensive.

Is that a school lunch? Guess he ate the carrot sticks first.

What's that greenish stuff in the bowl? It looks kind of like a big plump frog. Oh well, he has hot sauce.

Why destroy it? People have a right to live in a country that represents what they believe it.

The U.S. is too big and too diverse to make 60-70% of the populace happy with their country ever again.

Cut the U.S. in half and within a few years each country will represent 80-90% of it's citizenship.

Cut the U.S. in half and the population in one of those halves is the same as it was in the entire U.S. in 1952.

Cut the U.S. in half and the GDP of one of those halves is the same as it was in 1972.

Little bloodshed, little chance of collapse, very good chance of people getting the government and country they desire.

Anyone that doesn't think half the U.S. would still be a world power with 1972 era GDP, is a phuggin idiot.

Germany was split in half in 1945. In 1988, the year before reunification, West Germany was the 3rd largest economy in the world. West Germany was roughly the size of Oregon.

Just Florida and Texas combined, have a larger economy than Russia and would be the 8th largest economy in the world.

Throw in Georgia and North Carolina and the resulting country would be the 5th largest economy in the world ahead of France and the UK.

Collard greens.

...and make it twice as easy for our enemies to beat us.

Think about it. How many people REALLY produce and WHAT so they produce? What so they REALLY contribute?

There's a reason only 3% will show up.

Let's see, one strong half or a weak whole?

Do you think Obama is protecting you?

Half the country could afford the same military we have today, and with a competent Commander in Chief.

I wonder how many F-16's we could buy with the $193,000,000,000 BILLION we currently spend on the IRS, DEPT of Education and Food stamps programs that could go bye bye under a new half government?

I think it's time for some members to get drunk, and watch Les Miserables.

That should explain where most sit pretty fuggin' well.



Travis

You should get out more.



Travis

I'm really curious who could invade the U.S. Version .5 with the same GDP as the 2nd largest economy in the world?

Half the U.S. would still have a larger GDP than Four Russia's.

Not to mention, why would the other half of the U.S. be any less of an ally than Canada?

Hell, they'd probably merge with Canada. The only difference between New Englanders and Canadians is.... hmmm give me a minute...

Djs,
The middle of the country, you know the lib's call it fly-over country,
the people who cling to their guns and bibles etc...
Well it may come as a surprise to YOU east coast/west coast big city liberals, these people actually have to produce things in order to survive.

They produce many of the goods, farming, logging, mining, ranching, etc...
that you big city liberals need to live your cushy lives.

Yet you lib's look down your arrogant nose at these hard working people, well in the words of the great Deflave, GFY

Large populations have nothing to do with being conquered.



Travis

If GDP stood for Gross Domestic Population, that might be relevant....

I don't know about you, but I don't think the loss of Massachusetts and Delaware from the recruiting pool, is going to have all that much impact on how bad asz the new Marine Corp is.

I'll "run" with that, but it won't be to order collard greens.

would somebody please draw the line that shows the two halves that gets mentioned in here? I would like to see what people think would be viable sections of the country. I am also interested in how one separate's out all them people they don't like with a line on the ground.

Democracy is a beautiful thing. It tends to assemble people of similar goals, aspirations and values.

Just for argument sake, let's say Texas voted to start it's only little country. Soon thereafter a couple other states said, "Hey, Texas is better than having Hillary Clinton run our military" and they voted to join Texas. Then a few more and a few more.

Of course a bunch of states liked Hillary and New York etc., so they stuck with the uncool team.

Now, while all of this is going on, some real American's got stuck on the uncool team, so they moved to Texas and Florida and Tennessee. Likewise, a whole host of people in Atlanta, used to living in free housing and having free phones and free eats, started getting a little nervous about this new work thing, so they moved up to New York, which had digs much more like they were accustomed.

No one got separated out, they voted and/or moved to the country that best met their lifestyle.

You see, this is how this country was supposed to work, before a tyrannical federal bureaucracy started telling states that their people couldn't actually vote for what they believe in, but instead were bound to the decisions of 9 old men and lesbians and a bureaucracy that was no longer accountable to the people.

The example has no meaning. Texas isn't going to vote itself out. Even if it did, you would have set a precedent, and all the counties that don't want to leave would vote themselves out of Texas.
Or do you mean that wouldn't be allowed?

so you have some rural counties, cause the cities have populations that are going to vote against you. Meaningless small economies and no one is going to want to join such a weak grouping, not even those unhappy with the situation.

Did it ever occur to anyone that our leadership stands to gain by the failing of our country? Why else would they work so hard to achieve it?

We cannot even fathom the fields of greed and power they cultivate in the late night hours when they lay in bed scheming...

To them, we are pawns, not kings. It's time we recognize they will sacrifice us all on the altar of their beloved New World Order. We are sheep led to slaughter.

Woe is us

You're still bound by the laws of your state and the United State. Texas voted to enter the union, it therefore has the right to leave the union.

Counties on the other hand, unless their state charter dictates otherwise, are political subdivisions of their state. they do not exist except under the charter of their state.

So no, we can't just make up rules. The only reason the South wasn't allowed to leave in 1861, was because the North was powerful enough to say "I won't let you", it wasn't because what the southern states did was against the U.S. Constitution, because it wasn't.

The only thing the Constitution says is that states can't split, but then Lincoln ignored that, since Might is Right, and allowed West Virginia to split.

The votes that Colorado had and California has considered, are allowable because their state charter permits it. Not all states do, however. One would have to read the Texas charter and State Constitution to see if counties voting to secede is allowable.

Pawns? Hell, we are cattle.

Good post.

True that... But consider the number of drones needed - and the point becomes moot..

Well said.. I've heard a lot of city-folk that say something to the effect of 'who cares about farmers? We'll just go to the grocery store for food'... About 40+ years ago I had to rather pointedly remind my two cousins from La Mesa, CA (naturally), when the younger of the two made some remark about 'dumb farmers', that every single item on his plate came from those same 'dumb farmers' and that if it weren't for farming he'd starve to death in the city..


It boggles the mind....

how very odd

A civil war is not the answer. It is simplistic, unrealistic, and would be tragic for the revolters and they would be squashed. When it comes time to pick up arms which by the way would be pitchforks against those that would come against them, you would find a very, very small number willing to do so.

Even during the Revolutionary War, only about thirty percent of those who were able bodied were motivated enough to fight. The rest were either Great Britain sympathizers or were going to wait to see with whom to cast their lot.

I don't know if it was in this thread or another but Somewhere I mentioned the Cycle of Nations which is derived from a study of the great nations of the past and their evolution and subsequently de-evolution. We are there.

The reason we are there is as Digital Dan remarked, "our symptoms have causes that go to the bedrock of a society, to the heart of man" (Paraphrase mine). We once lived generally by Judea-Christian values which we have arrogantly flushed from every public venue of life.

Thus, IMO, God has taken His hand off.

Yep. Nice summary.

No need to look any further than the collapse of the Soviet Union. Look at how many Billionares popped up after that restructuring.

A tax revolt is moral and peaceful except for the first few victims; the only real problem with it is that it won't work.

The government has three sources of money: taxation, monetization, and borrowing. Or perhaps more colloquially, stealing, counterfeiting, and promising to steal.

A tax revolt eliminates only the first source. They can still print money and borrow it from people who believe the tax revolt will be crushed within the five- or ten- or thirty-year maturity period of the T-bills they're buying.

You have to come up with something that attacks all three sources at once, else they'll use whichever ones you didn't attack to counterattack.

The thing all three sources have in common is the dollar. If the dollar were to become less and less attractive to the general public compared to something else that was essentially untaxable, then this is what happens to their three sources:

Taxation: The objections to taxation would wane, because people's taxable income would drop precipitously. Raising taxes would make the income drop even more precipitously. You want to tax me at 100%? Okay, fine. I made three dollars last year: here you go. How was I able to live on only three (minus three) dollars? Gee, interesting question. I guess I must just have some really nice neighbors and Internet buddies.

Monetization: Dollars would be worth very little if anything, and nobody would want to be paid in them, because...well, because they wouldn't be able to use them for anything, because nobody would want to be paid in them. The government could print up as many trillions as it had warehouses for, and in those warehouses is where they would sit.

Borrowing: If nobody wants dollars, who's going to buy dollar-denominated government instruments, even if the government promised an interest rate of 100%? 100% of essentially nothing is essentially nothing. Screw you and your T-bills; I'll barter Bitcoins over the Internet for shares of startups.

Don't boycott the IRS; boycott the dollar. And not because you're sacrificially freedom-minded: because you'll be wealthier and your life will be better if you do.

If we can get free-market private currencies to that point, no government in the world will be able to stand against it.