A dozen or so bears checked in. With a few of them weighing less than 50 pounds

Personally, I don't see how an adult has a need to kill a bear that bad that he has to shoot a cub. The three cubs that came in were killed buy adults, all of them "veteren" bear hunters by their own admission. They were absolutely thrilled with having killed a cub, i just can't understand it....of course two of them were from NJ

Maybe they figured they were pygmy bears.

Personally I don't see the need either but to each his own. Another problem it could cause is to give the crazy ass animal lovers ammo.

cub killers suck....................

This becomes a pretty heated debate every year over on HuntingPa.com. It is legal to harvest a cub in Pa. The Pa game commission wants a certain number of cubs harvested each year to help with population control.( which is not working very well as the black bear population has been increasing at a pretty good rate) . So I guess that leaves it up to the individual as to whether to pull the trigger on a cub. I have personally harvested 2 Pa black bears, neither of which were cubs. My second bear weighed 117 lbs.dressed and estimated at 138 lbs.live weight and 2 years 10 months old. My first bear weighed an estimated 275 lbs. live weight and was over 4 years old. All that being said , the year after I shot my first bear (shot it in 1984) I had a small cub about 20 yards in front of me for about 15 minutes. Had the gun up safety off and finger on the trigger. Just couldn't pull the trigger. Now had I had not shot a bear the year before, that cub may have met his end. Would I shoot a cub today? I don't know. I would make that decision at the time it's actually happening.
What I don't get is when someone pulls into the check station with a cub the crowd will boo and make a bunch of nasty remarks about a legal harvested animal. A lot of hunters say they'll never shoot a cub, but in the heat of the moment and a bear busts out during a drive and they see a bear and shoot, walk up to it and realize its a cub, guess what they shot a cub.
I feel any size bear is a trophy, and that's just my opinion. There's a lot of guys hunt for 30,40 years or more and never see a bear, so to harvest one,even if it is a cub, can be a pretty big deal to some.

Now I imagine I'm gonna get flamed pretty good for all that, but it is what it is. As long as it was harvested legally, that makes it a legal animal no matter what size it is.

Its ok to shoot a dink, but not a cub.

That said, my only bear went about 85-90 pounds live weight. Ate real good.

Seems to be a good point. In that I've never seen one outside a zoo, don't know what I'd do..

No flame from me. People have to realize that shooting a bear in Pennsylvania is not like shooting a bear over bait, or a hound hunt, or a spot-and-stalk hunt. Over bait, you get plenty of opportunity to size up the bear and decide whether or not to shoot. On a hound hunt you chase a bear pretty much every day until you tree the bear you want to shoot. On a spot-and-stalk hunt you check out a bear through a spotting scope and decide if the bear is big enough to invest the time.

In PA, it's a 3 or 4 day season, and you're probably driving bears through swamps or clearcuts. Any sighting of a bear might not be more than a glimpse. Bears are hard enough to evaluate under the best conditions. Under those conditions it's sometimes impossible. It's fast action, and if you get a chance to shoot, you pull the trigger.

The growing population needs to be controlled because Pennsylvania's bears reproduce faster, grow faster, and get bigger than anywhere else in their range. With so many small towns in their habitat, occasions for bear-human conflict are common. It's counter-intuitive, but it's better for the species if some cubs are killed.

The rule used to be that cubs we considered any bear under 100 pounds, and they were not legal. But there have been many cubs at 110 or 120 pounds, and many adults at 90. What the Pennsylvania Game Commission is doing may not be perfect, but it works. Bear hunting is better than ever in Pennsylvania.

Steve.

excellent, well thought post. personally I just cant shot a bear. i have I years past but have no desire to anymore.
the people who will boo a shot cub will probably shoot a button buck and think nothing of it.

I spent the day out looking for a bear. Didn't see any but that's how it goes. I don't think I'd shoot a cub. I'd feel bad, but I know i would be pissed when its raising hell in my corn field the next year.

In my part of the state the bear population is taking off. I've seen 7 different bears this year so far. I used to go years in between sightings. Most of the state has seen longer seasons in the last few years. In my area (3c) we have ten days to hunt them. So I guess a hunter can get a little more choosey than years past.

I've shot fawns and calves, legally, for meat. If the bear population is great and growing, what's the problem eating a cub? Should make for a good roast.

Won't pass judgement but the only bear that I have killed weighed about 375 dressed have shot a few dink deer though, maybe another one or two tomorrow

I have zero issues with somebody hunting legally.

Why not increase the length of the season if the population is a problem?

I know a guy who went on a hunt in a place where cubs were legal for the express purpose of shooting a cub. He had shot several bears before and wanted one for a full body mount but doesn't have a large house.

Hunting in Cali one year I'm watching a meadow when a bear trots past a log. I get up & follow, and sneak up on it as it roots in the meadow. I'm holding up the rifle, looking at it when it dawns on me the head is awful big for the body. I lower the rifle, it sees me and zip, it runs like hell. I walk back to where I first see it and decide that it was actually about as tall as my knee. I was glad I didn't shoot it, but it would not have been hard to make the mistake. It was borderline legal.

I'd not shoot a cub, but if legal, won't judge others who choose to. A friend of mine on his first bear hunt (Maine) asked me for a few tips WRT judging shooter size, explaining that he wanted a mature boar only. He got his bear a few days later. Tipped the scales at 39 lbs undressed. I kept my mouth shut. I was a little surprised that he had it full-mounted, but his bear. I guess I was sort of like, 'hey he thought enough of his hunt and stood by his choice and I suppose his mounting it showed that he has respect for the game he takes...' or something.


I confess to about falling over in near hysterics when after an outing a few guys went to have a post-hunt beer and lunch at the guy's house some time later, and while one guy was admiring the taxidermy work of the bear, another walks up and says, 'holy fark dude, you shot THAT? Well, I guess you could look at it in a few different ways. I'll offer this: that bruin is most definitely less than a couple seasons away from being a solid juvenile!'. He then turns and mutters, 'WTF?'


Edit: P.S. Just remembered that my wife was at camp in ME that hunt (we were chasing grouse and up to enjoy fooling around in the woods). After seeing the wee bear in the back of the guides truck bed, she turned and looked at me with a sad and confused face on. I gave her the 'don't say anything please' face. Later, when out of earshot of the others 'admiring' my friend's handiwork, looks at me incredulously and out she comes with, 'it's really legal to shoot a bear puppy?!?"

Twenty years ago, a buddy (Scott) and I took his father-in-law (Charlie) on our annual black bear hunt in Southeast AK. Ol' Pa-in-law was one of those know-it-all types. My buddy and I both, although in our 20s, had extensive hunting experience and knew how to accurately field judge black bears.

At any rate, we were hunting down near Snettisham and, after a morning of hunting alone, met back up near the skiff for a bite of lunch. As we were sitting there, a very young bear stepped out of the bush less than 100 yards from us. It was clearly a yearling, probably just kicked out of the house by his mama. Scott and I were just sitting there, not saying a word, just enjoying watching this little bear flip stones, taste some seaweed, rub himself on a rock, etc.

I was remotely aware of Pa-in-law shuffling around behind us, but didn't pay much attention to him. The next thing I know, a deafening blast goes off next to us. Ol' Charlie had taken it upon himself to shoot this "monster" bear. Or I should say shoot at it.

His first shoot, although at a distance of less than 100 yards was a clean miss. The startled bear, didn't know what to do. At first it ran towards us, away from the burst of the bullet striking a rock behind him. Charlie racked another round into his braked Browning .375 H&H and, shaking like a leaf, put a bullet right into the cub's hip. The poor little bear spun around biting at his hip, squalling like a small child. "Shoot it again!", Scott yelled. Charlie fumbled with the bolt, somehow loaded another round, and flat missed again. Cursing under his breath, he shoved in his last round. This time he hit pay dirt, right in the neck, dropping the poor bear in its tracks.

I was too dumb-founded to really say anything. My ears were ringing from the first shot going of 10 feet from my head. Scott was incredulous as well. "What the heck are you shooting a cub for, Charlie!?!" "Why didn't you tell us you were going to shoot!?!"

"That's a nice bear," Charlie snaps back at him. "If you two idiots weren't going to take him, I sure was." Right. We strolled on over to the bear.

Charlie had a lot of physical problems with his legs, so it took a little while to walk the 75 yards or so. The closer we got, the quieter Charlie got. He went from being adamant that the bear was a shooter, to being utterly mortified at how small it really was. Scott picked it up like a sack of potatoes and carried back to the boat. They were both so upset we decided to just pack up camp and head back to Juneau. I didn't argue.

On the way back, Charlie turns to us and says "You guys should have told me not to shoot." I thought Scott was going to toss him overboard. Back at Scott's house, we weighed the bear. Fifty-two pounds dressed. Both Charlie and Scott have since passed on, Scott at the young age of 28 at a spot very near where Charlie shot his "monster". That's another story, though.

Anyway, I guess the point is that sometimes people just don't have a clue as to what size critter they are shooting at.

PA has increased the season in many of the WMUs. We have had an archery bear season for a few years and they have extended the season to run concurrent with the rifle deer season in units that are having a lot of bear complaints. Most of the hunting is done by drives through thickets and swamps. Most of the successful hunters see black and shoot.

I agree. Our annual steak deer, we look specifically for a young doe to shoot, IE fawn or yearling only. Makes for some of the best "veal"

Legality must be followed. Ethics and morals change and are an individual thing.

And while I"ll shoot the fawn or yearling every year... I don't understand why folks shoot a buck they won't mount or a buck thats not in its prime yet.... but thats just me. Well other than cull bucks... of which I usually end up shooting 2 each year because I don't find a big enough mature buck...

The game commission has been increasing seasons lengths quite a bit throughout different areas of the state.

I guess to clarify my post, regarding Pennsylvania. I don't really accept the argument of the short three day season and the rarity of seeing a bear, as a reason to shoot a cub. Our seasons are getting longer and there's more bear out there,so you have a better chance of finding a larger bear than in the past. I don't think its a big deal to go home with your tag in your pocket, there's always next year.

Just my opinion but I can careless what anyone does.

If its legal not much you can say about it. Dead is dead regardless of what age the person pulling the trigger on it is.
In TN a bear has to weigh a min of 75 lbs whole or field dressed, and sows with cubs(75lbs or less) still in tow are off limits.

Wow. Those little cubs were a long way form home!

laffin

None of my business what someone else does as long as it's legal although I wouldn't.
I do shoot a fawn for meat every year though.
Kinda hypocritical,,, huh. You don't suppose I'm actually a Democrat, do ya?

Huh,... your avatar does resemble a democrat some what.... <G>

Yep...I don't shoot cubs, just my choice. But if it is legal, what a hunter legally does is his prerogative.

If it's legal and the biologist are looking to kill X number of cubs sounds more like a social issue than a biological one. For years/decades it was hard to get hunters to kill does even tho they were run over with 50-75 pound adult deer. Finally they broke thru that one.

But we really don't have legal bear here to begin with so I dunno. They killed one here last year even tho there's no season and are protected. It had come over from the LA population that is also protected now. Was legal when I was younger.

I thought long and hard about this.

And I still don't care.



Travis

Sorry, wrong thread. Having issues with the fire logging me out.

Again, sorry off topic by a bunch.

That is because you are brilliant, others aren't.

Too many bears and a 4 day season. Brilliant.

Oregon season runs from August 1 to Dec. 31. No dogs, no bait. Just hunt them on their own terms. Works fine.

Yes, 4 days is not enough to harvest enough bears to keep the population stable. But it's not actually a 4-day season. It's 4 days when you can hunt nothing else. There are more days when it's open to archery. And they've been opening the season to overlap with firearms deer season is several areas. So we mislead when we talk about a "4-day season." It's actually quite a bit more than that.

They have ruled out hunting with dogs because there is too much private property in PA, and it's broken up into relatively small parcels. They have also ruled out spring hunting and hunting over bait. Spot and stalk, what you refer to as hunting them "on their own terms," is not effective in Pennsylvania terrain.

Incidentally, it used to be a 3-day season, opening on Monday of Thanksgiving week, but such a small window is very much subject to adverse weather conditions. Hard rain, for example, will keep hunters out of the woods waiting for a break in the rain. Heavy snow has a similar effect, as well as reducing visibility and limiting bear movement. So it was expanded to 4 days, opening the previous Saturday in an effort to get more hunters into the woods. Then they added archery days and further expanded the season to overlap with firearms deer season in areas where the bear population is the highest. Obviously, the PA Game Commission has not perfected this if the population is still growing.

Conditions on opening day of the main firearms bear season this year (yesterday) were excellent. The snow wasn't too deep, and it had melted/dropped from the trees so visibility was excellent in most places. Temperatures are rising, and the snow is melting fast. There may not be any snow by tomorrow except at higher elevations. That's why opening day Saturday weather conditions are critical.

Steve.

I've shot every bear I've seen.

I passed up 13 different bears in Idaho one spring. Passed up another 6 or 7 in the fall before I got about a 270lb Brown Phase Black with a Blond Streak Down its back. I couldn't pass up that bear.

My father has killed about one every year in the past 5 or 6 years. All of them around 250lbs to 400lbs. Its easy to try to differentiate a 50lb bear from a 250lb bear. But I have seen some 150lbs that look big just because of proportion. That being said, I would never kill a cub. They are just to cute to watch. Some of the best times I have had bear hunting are watching cubs and 2 year old bears playing.

I had a guy bring in a fawn one year just out of spots to check in when I lived back east. He was with his buddies. I apologized to him, and stated that we don't check in dogs here, just deer because of the size of the thing. His buddies that that was hilarious, he not so much.

me and my boys were out saturday. saw lots of bear poop but no bears. i'm not even sure if i would pull the trigger on even a big bear anymore. i wanted my son to get a chance but told him "no cubs". it just does not seem right to me to shoot cubs. but to each his own.