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Posted By: dennisinaz Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
What the heck is going on? I fueled up Wednesday night and paid $3.39 and thought I did good. I see today that it is $2.99 by the house and as low as $2.79 a few miles away!

How does it drop 40+ cents in two days?

What are you'all paying?
Posted By: Akbob5 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Haven't fueled up lately but will have to check. Idaho blows for fuel prices.
Posted By: Fireball2 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Oregon blows too. Still over $3 here. I use a cardlock so don't track prices closely since they're not posted on the commercial pumps.
Posted By: jnyork Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Still averaging around 3.40 here in Yuma.
Posted By: CCCC Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
The markup price margin is being narrowed quickly right now in certain areas. Remember what it was - less than gasoline - before all of the stupididty took hold?

In winter diesel is more in demand due to home fuel being close in the cracking scale and pricing of diesel not as volatile as gas - sales volume is lower. But, it will come down more in some areas. It seems more appealing for them to keep refineries running steadily with normal production and to lower the price than it is to deal with slowdowns and crude backups.
Posted By: Calvin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Oil is tanking.. below $60 a barrel now.
Posted By: krp Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14

Dennis, where did you see it cheaper, it's 3.39 by my house and I have to fill the tank tomorrow.

Kent
Posted By: EdM Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
To those that think cheap fuel is good, well, you'll see.
Posted By: Calvin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Stock market is already starting to spook.
Posted By: krp Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by EdM
To those that think cheap fuel is good, well, you'll see.


That's funny chit...

Kent
Posted By: EdM Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Yes it is...
Posted By: krp Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
I knew you weren't serious...

Kent
Posted By: Calvin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Cheap fuel will hand it right back to the Saudi's. It'll wipe out a lot of very good paying jobs here in the USA. It's nice to pay less at the pump, but you have to look at the big picture.
Posted By: laker Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by Calvin
Cheap fuel will hand it right back to the Saudi's. It'll wipe out a lot of very good paying jobs here in the USA. It's nice to pay less at the pump, but you have to look at the big picture.


Exactly
Posted By: eh76 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
$3.80 here
Posted By: Barkoff Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Out here gasoline is dropping but Diesel is staying put in the $3.90 range, $1.20 more per gallon than gas.

Remember when diesel used to be cheaper than gas?
Posted By: krp Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Oil is the 'bubble' of flavor this time around, housing, metals... it's the same circle. Anyone not understanding the rise and crashes in any of those markets hasn't paid attention. It'd be nice if prices for any of those products were stable, not to high or not to low. But that's not how any of those markets work.

Fuel has been too high for too long, it'll go low then back move up, same as the house markets, those working in these fields better understand or it's their own fault for being stupid.

Kent
Posted By: 79S Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
I don't get why people keep saying that it was costing $100 to fill up my truck now close to $60 I have $40 bucks in my pocket.
Posted By: old_willys Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Monday we drove back from our Texas lease it was $3.39 in Texas and $3.67 locally... today in Woodland Hills CA it was down to $2.99
Posted By: Paladin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14

Well said Kent.

I paid $3.29 a gallon in Carlsbad, NM this morning. Seems to be a bit higher in the Pecos area.

Heard today more companies are laying rigs down or cancelling orders. Had a vendor come in and tell me they're lowering rental prices by 15% to beat the rush. Rig cost went up $1,000/day in November on a contract. Be interesting to see if they offer to cut their price.

Posted By: NathanL Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by Barkoff
Out here gasoline is dropping but Diesel is staying put in the $3.90 range, $1.20 more per gallon than gas.

Remember when diesel used to be cheaper than gas?


Pre ultra low sulphur days.

Locally they are having a bit of gas war. WalMart opened a station and Marathon opened their first. Gas instantly dropped $0.20/gallon. It's about $1.90 for gas. Diesel is around $3.30. Too bad I filled up my 500 gallon tank shortly before the fall.
Posted By: krp Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Phoenix, where I do construction was one of the biggest housing booms before the housing bust, you had to be in a lottery to buy a house from one of the big builders. It was easy to see the boom couldn't support itself.

So Phoenix was one of the worst hit by the bust and took longest to recover with all the foreclosures and abandoned homes. Construction basically ceased.

Six years later Phoenix is the hottest housing market in the nation but not overly so like the boom years.

The gold mines in Nevada dig gold when the price is above a certain level. They've boomed in the last couple years, if the price drops below they dig much less and the boom stops. Price goes up they dig balls to the walls.

Oil is no different. All these industries have been boom/bust historically.

Why is it any different now? just cause some wish it wasn't for their investments and employment.

Consumers paying high just to continue booms isn't reality.

Kent
Posted By: MadMooner Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Seems to me like a lot more businesses are positively affected by cheaper oil than hurt.

Bring on $1.99 fuel.
Posted By: ironeagle_84 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
SO the oil industry is going to suffer a bit from lower gas prices? Trillion dollar profits not gonna happen?

What about the smaller businesses and OTHER fields that will be positively affected by people having some disposable income in their pockets and the willingness to spend it on some other product than fuel?

Seems to me that the economy could benefit from lower fuel prices and that isnt a bad thing.
Posted By: Fireball2 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by ironeagle_84
SO the oil industry is going to suffer a bit from lower gas prices? Trillion dollar profits not gonna happen?

What about the smaller businesses and OTHER fields that will be positively affected by people having some disposable income in their pockets and the willingness to spend it on some other product than fuel?

Seems to me that the economy could benefit from lower fuel prices and that isnt a bad thing.


Those poor oil companies! Them and banks need special protection from us predatory consumers.
Posted By: MadMooner Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
I swear to christ, oil workers are almost as bad as farmers when it comes to poor mouthing.
Posted By: MadMooner Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Wait.....did i just agree with two fellas from Oregon?


Is it too late to pay extra for gas?
Posted By: Fireball2 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by MadMooner
Wait.....did i just agree with two fellas from Oregon?


Is it too late to pay extra for gas?


It's all over but the cryin now...
Posted By: MadMooner Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
That sounds like rape.

I'm staying the fugg outta Portland.
Posted By: logger Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Fireball:

Diesel was $2.99 at Fred Meyer today - without the discount.
Posted By: Partsman Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
I run gas, it was $106.9 CDN per litre at costco
Posted By: EthanEdwards Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by EdM
To those that think cheap fuel is good, well, you'll see.
High fuel has just about killed the economy in this country. Probably each one of those new oil field jobs cost 2-3 jobs in other sectors. It's a closed system. Money isn't "created" out of thin air, unless you're a bankster with access to the national printing press.
Posted By: RoninPhx Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Kent:
it's 2.77/gallon at sam's club in gilbert
Posted By: Pat85 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by MadMooner
Seems to me like a lot more businesses are positively affected by cheaper oil than hurt.


Exactly, try and tell The Owner Operator trying to make a living and truck payment how bad lower fuel costs are.
Posted By: Seafire Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by EdM
To those that think cheap fuel is good, well, you'll see.


yeah for myself, I can't wait for the opportunity to be shelling out $5.+ a gallon.....

I mean it costing me 40 to 45 % less now than a year ago is really messing up our monthly budget here at home...

Fuel is better when you pay more for it right?

hopefully this craziness will end and we can get back to the good old Overpriced Democrat lead economy...

my next post will be about my anger that we all pay way to little in Taxes.....
Posted By: billy336 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
3.29 onroad, 2.89 offroad
Posted By: cal74 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Bargain priced at 3.79 here, consequently the truck mainly sits in the garage.

But I'm hoping it goes higher than that as well as mentioned above the hope for higher taxes because of how well all that helps my household out.
Posted By: Pat85 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
After the housing collapse and the home market corrected it self, we were told how lower home prices were bad for the economy also. I guess you can say, anything that allows the middle class to keep more of their money is bad for the economy.
Posted By: rem141r Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
bring back slick willy. $1/gal gas, 20% returns on almost all mutual funds and practically no war. the 90's were the good old days.
Posted By: SamOlson Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
I think #2 highway is around $3.50 here.

Fuel drops $1/gallon we might save $600-700 a month. Not huge savings, but I guess it all adds up.

Hate to see people lose their jobs.

Posted By: shrapnel Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14


The red dyed stuff works really good and is much cheaper. When is the last time someone stopped you and asked to look in your fuel tank???
Posted By: SamOlson Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Get checked all the time.

Last time it was some new guy and he tried writing the ticket.

Until I explained that I was almost out of fuel and had to use a little dyed from the onboard bulk tank to get back to town.

He was very understanding.
Posted By: FieldGrade Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by MadMooner
Seems to me like a lot more businesses are positively affected by cheaper oil than hurt.


To bad we don't see some of that "positive effect" they're reaping.

Remember when food cost's nearly doubled because of high fuel costs?
Posted By: shrapnel Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14


Get a spare fuel tank for the cops to check and keep 5 gallons of good stuff in it. Put the red stuff in your secret tank and keep on truckin'
Posted By: Paladin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by EdM
To those that think cheap fuel is good, well, you'll see.
High fuel has just about killed the economy in this country. Probably each one of those new oil field jobs cost 2-3 jobs in other sectors. It's a closed system. Money isn't "created" out of thin air, unless you're a bankster with access to the national printing press.

I guess I'm a little slow.

Would you mind explaining how 2-3 jobs in "other" sectors is lost, and how it's a closed system?

Since I'm slow, you could start by letting me know what the "other" sectors are, maybe with a simple list.

However, I'm most interested in the "closed system" part, so if you could explain that in simple terms it would help me a lot.

Thanks.


Posted By: milespatton Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Quote
Oil is the 'bubble' of flavor this time around, housing, metals... it's the same circle. Anyone not understanding the rise and crashes in any of those markets hasn't paid attention. It'd be nice if prices for any of those products were stable, not to high or not to low. But that's not how any of those markets work.


Kent, well put. High fuel helped make the housing crash the last time as most people were maxed out on payments and when the fuel got high, they had to choose where to make their payments. Fuel to go to work or a house payment, on a house that was most likely a lot more house than they should have bought. People were buying houses that should never have been given a loan to start with, and they could not pay for them. miles
Posted By: milespatton Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Quote
The red dyed stuff works really good and is much cheaper. When is the last time someone stopped you and asked to look in your fuel tank???


They do it pretty regular in farm country. Especially grain trucks, but they check pickups too. Tickets are high so I am told. miles
Posted By: atomchaser Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Enjoy it while it lasts. Once the Saudis kill of the weaker, higher production cost competition and put the breaks on US exploration and production, you'll see the prices skyrocket again. The low prices are benefit to consumers in the short term but strategically it's going to create instability in many countries.
Posted By: Pat85 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by SamOlson


Fuel drops $1/gallon we might save $600-700 a month. Not huge savings, but I guess it all adds up.


Multiply that X 12 for the year and its nothing to sneeze at when you have a small operation.
Posted By: Pat85 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by milespatton

Tickets are high so I am told. miles


You cheat the government out of revenue when you run red fuel, they will make you wish you paid the tax. They came right to my yard and dipped fuel tanks already. The savings on the couple of thousand gallons I burn a year isn't worth the fine that would be levied.

Posted By: EthanEdwards Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by shrapnel


Get a spare fuel tank for the cops to check and keep 5 gallons of good stuff in it. Put the red stuff in your secret tank and keep on truckin'
A guy I knew got fined about $80,000 for those type shenanigans. They will check you and the penalty is significant.
Posted By: Calvin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
People bitch and moan about "low paying jobs" etc. Well, we have good paying jobs here in the USA.. and for blue collar folks, most of them are in the oil patch. You want just about everybody without at least a 4 year college degree making $10-15 an hour? Kill oil exploration/extraction here in the USA.

I don't even work in the oil patch, but I have the sense to know what energy independence means to us as a nation. The only reason we have seen a "boom", is because of high oil prices which spurred exploration and extraction here in the USA.
Posted By: aheider Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Fred Meyer has diesel for 2.59 and has been for a couple weeks. Everybody else is 3.49-3.69....
Posted By: gldprimr Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Just paid $2.57 a gal at a truck stop in St. Francisville, LA north of Baton Rouge.
Posted By: rainierrifleco Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by Calvin
People bitch and moan about "low paying jobs" etc. Well, we have good paying jobs here in the USA.. and for blue collar folks, most of them are in the oil patch. You want just about everybody without at least a 4 year college degree making $10-15 an hour? Kill oil exploration/extraction here in the USA.

I don't even work in the oil patch, but I have the sense to know what energy independence means to us as a nation. The only reason we have seen a "boom", is because of high oil prices which spurred exploration and extraction here in the USA.


You said it....been in it for 25 years and every time we see crude tank so does the economy. Snow ball effect..
Good for the farm? Not really. I would rather pay 4 dollars for diesel and get 7 $ for corn any day.....
Posted By: laker Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by shrapnel


Get a spare fuel tank for the cops to check and keep 5 gallons of good stuff in it. Put the red stuff in your secret tank and keep on truckin'



I heard they are starting to test your exhaust instead of dipping your tank.
Posted By: dennisinaz Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
ARCO at Lindsay and Univ was 299. Power and Queen creek was 2.97 or 2.79. Frys in Phx was 2.97.
Posted By: dennisinaz Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Best price close to you is the Lindsay/Univ.
Posted By: White_Bear Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Fines are high for burning red on the road. All they need to do is stick their sniffer in your tailpipe to see what you're burning. A cup of waste oil in a tank of fuel was all it used to take to stain it enough so the color couldn't be identified.

I like the low cost. After machine purchase price, fuel costs are my biggest expense.
I would like to see the market settle at a price where we can pump the oil on this continent and screw the diaper-heads and their crude.
Posted By: dennisinaz Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by milespatton
Quote
The red dyed stuff works really good and is much cheaper. When is the last time someone stopped you and asked to look in your fuel tank???


They do it pretty regular in farm country. Especially grain trucks, but they check pickups too. Tickets are high so I am told. miles


Just keep your old motor oil and add a gallon or so to each tank of red fuel. It turns it black and that is the end of that. Red fuel here is only 18 cents cheaper- not worth the hassle
Posted By: Fireball2 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
Originally Posted by milespatton
Quote
The red dyed stuff works really good and is much cheaper. When is the last time someone stopped you and asked to look in your fuel tank???


They do it pretty regular in farm country. Especially grain trucks, but they check pickups too. Tickets are high so I am told. miles


Just keep your old motor oil and add a gallon or so to each tank of red fuel. It turns it black and that is the end of that. Red fuel here is only 18 cents cheaper- not worth the hassle


I confess to having a rebellious streak that tells me this is ingenious. Then my practical side says, "You got a family fool, do the right thing!" If nothing else, I do not want to be known as the guy that cheats everywhere he can.
I would love to save some money, but I don't think I like the price I'd pay to do it.
Posted By: stxhunter Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
http://800whistleblower.com/anyone-...rices-are-good-for-the-economy-is-crazy/


Home > Economic Collapse > >Anyone That Believes That Collapsing Oil Prices Are Good For The Economy Is Crazy
>Anyone That Believes That Collapsing Oil Prices Are Good For The Economy Is Crazy

Oil - Public DomainAre much lower oil prices good news for the U.S. economy? Only if you like collapsing capital expenditures, rising unemployment and a potential financial implosion on Wall Street. Yes, lower gasoline prices are good news for the middle class. I certainly would rather pay two dollars for a gallon of gas than four dollars. But in order to have money to fill up your vehicle you have got to have an income first. And since the last recession, the energy sector has been the number one creator of good jobs in the U.S. economy by far. Barack Obama loves to stand up and take credit for the fact that the employment picture in this country has been improving slightly, but without the energy industry boom, unemployment would be through the roof. And now that the �energy boom� is rapidly becoming an �energy bust�, what will happen to the struggling U.S. economy as we head into 2015?

At the start of this article I mentioned that much lower oil prices would result in �collapsing capital expenditures�.

If you do not know what a �capital expenditure� is, the following is a definition that comes from Investopedia�

�Funds used by a company to acquire or upgrade physical assets such as property, industrial buildings or equipment. This type of outlay is made by companies to maintain or increase the scope of their operations. These expenditures can include everything from repairing a roof to building a brand new factory.�

Needless to say, this kind of spending is very good for an economy. It builds infrastructure, it creates jobs and it is an investment in the future.

In recent years, energy companies have been pouring massive amounts of money into capital expenditures. In fact, the energy sector currently accounts for about a third of all capital expenditures in the United States according to Deutsche Bank�

US private investment spending is usually ~15% of US GDP or $2.8trn now. This investment consists of $1.6trn spent annually on equipment and software, $700bn on non-residential construction and a bit over $500bn on residential. Equipment and software is 35% technology and communications, 25-30% is industrial equipment for energy, utilities and agriculture, 15% is transportation equipment, with remaining 20-25% related to other industries or intangibles. Non-residential construction is 20% oil and gas producing structures and 30% is energy related in total. We estimate global investment spending is 20% of S&P EPS or 12% from US. The Energy sector is responsible for a third of S&P 500 capex.

These companies make these investments because they believe that there are big profits to be made.

Unfortunately, when the price of oil crashes those investments become unprofitable and capital expenditures start getting slashed almost immediately.

For example, the budget for 2015 at ConocoPhillips has already been reduced by 20 percent�

ConocoPhillips is one of the bigger shale players. And its decision to slash its budget for next year by 20% is raising eyebrows. The company said the new target reflects lower spending on major projects as well as �unconventional plays.� Despite the expectation that others will follow, it doesn�t mean U.S. shale oil production is dead. Just don�t expect a surge in spending like in recent years.

And Reuters is reporting that the number of new well permits for the industry as a whole plunged by an astounding 40 percent during the month of November�

Plunging oil prices sparked a drop of almost 40 percent in new well permits issued across the United States in November, in a sudden pause in the growth of the U.S. shale oil and gas boom that started around 2007.

Data provided exclusively to Reuters on Tuesday by industry data firm Drilling Info Inc showed 4,520 new well permits were approved last month, down from 7,227 in October.

If the price of oil stays this low or continues dropping, this is just the beginning.

Meanwhile, the flow of good jobs that this industry has been producing is also likely to start drying up.

According to the Perryman Group, the energy sector currently supports 9.3 million permanent jobs in this country�

According to a new study, investments in oil and gas exploration and production generate substantial economic gains, as well as other benefits such as increased energy independence. The Perryman Group estimates that the industry as a whole generates an economic stimulus of almost $1.2 trillion in gross product each year, as well as more than 9.3 million permanent jobs across the nation.

The ripple effects are everywhere. If you think about the role of oil in your life, it is not only the primary source of many of our fuels, but is also critical to our lubricants, chemicals, synthetic fibers, pharmaceuticals, plastics, and many other items we come into contact with every day. The industry supports almost 1.3 million jobs in manufacturing alone and is responsible for almost $1.2 trillion in annual gross domestic product. If you think about the law, accounting, and engineering firms that serve the industry, the pipe, drilling equipment, and other manufactured goods that it requires, and the large payrolls and their effects on consumer spending, you will begin to get a picture of the enormity of the industry.

And these are good paying jobs. They aren�t eight dollar part-time jobs down at your local big box retailer. These are jobs that comfortably support middle class families. These are precisely the kinds of jobs that we cannot afford to lose.

In recent years, there has been a noticeable economic difference between areas of the country where energy is being produced and where energy is not being produced.

Since December 2007, a total of 1.36 million jobs have been gained in shale oil states.

Meanwhile, a total of 424,000 jobs have been lost in non-shale oil states.

So what happens now that the shale oil boom is turning into a bust?

That is a very good question.

Even more ominous is what an oil price collapse could mean for our financial system.

The last time the price of oil declined by more than 40 dollars in less than six months, there was a financial meltdown on Wall Street and we experienced the deepest recession that we have seen since the days of the Great Depression.

And now many fear that this collapse in the price of oil could trigger another financial panic.

According to Citigroup, the energy sector now accounts for 17 percent of the high yield bond market.

J.P. Morgan says that it is actually 18 percent.

In any event, the reality of the matter is that the health of these �junk bonds� is absolutely critical to our financial system. And according to Deutsche Bank, if these bonds start defaulting it could �trigger a broader high-yield market default cycle��

Based on recent stress tests of subprime borrowers in the energy sector in the US produced by Deutsche Bank, should the price of US crude fall by a further 20pc to $60 per barrel, it could result in up to a 30pc default rate among B and CCC rated high-yield US borrowers in the industry. West Texas Intermediate crude is currently trading at multi-year lows of around $75 per barrel, down from $107 per barrel in June.

�A shock of that magnitude could be sufficient to trigger a broader high-yield market default cycle, if materialized,� warn Deutsche strategists Oleg Melentyev and Daniel Sorid in their report.

If the price of oil stays at this level or continues to go down, it is inevitable that we will start to see some of these junk bonds go bad.

In fact, one Motley Fool article recently stated that one industry analyst believes that up to 40 percent of all energy junk bonds could eventually go into default�

The junk bonds, or noninvestment-rated bonds, of energy companies are also beginning to see heavy selling as investors start to worry that drillers could one day default on these bonds. Those defaults could get so bad, according to one analyst, that up to 40% of all energy junk bonds go into default over the next few years if oil prices don�t recover.

That would be a total nightmare for Wall Street.

And of course bond defaults would only be part of the equation. As I wrote about the other day, a crash in junk bonds is almost always followed by a significant stock market correction.

In addition, plunging oil prices could end up absolutely destroying the banks that are holding enormous amounts of energy derivatives. This is something that I recently covered in this article and this article.

As you read this, there are five �too big to fail� banks that each have more than 40 trillion dollars in exposure to derivatives. Of course only a small fraction of that total exposure is made up of energy derivatives, but a small fraction of 40 trillion dollars is still a massive amount of money.

These derivatives trades are largely unregulated, and even Forbes admits that they are likely to be at the heart of the coming financial collapse�

No one understands the derivative risk positions of the Too Big To Fail Banks, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley. There is presently no way to measure the risks involved in the leverage, quantity of collateral, or stability of counter-parties for these major institutions. To me personally they are big black holes capable of potential wrack and ruin. Without access to confidential internal data about these risky derivative positions the regulators cannot react in a timely and measured fashion to block the threat to financial stability, according to a National Bureau of Economic Research study.

So do we have any hope?

Yes, if oil prices start going back up, much of what you just read about can be averted.

Unfortunately, that does not seem likely any time soon. Even though U.S. energy companies are cutting back on capital expenditures, most of them are still actually projecting an increase in production for 2015. Here is one example from Bloomberg�

Continental, the biggest holder of drilling rights in the Bakken, last month said 2015 output will grow between 23 percent and 29 percent even after shelving plans to allocate more money to exploration.

Higher levels of production will just drive the price of oil even lower.

At this point, Morgan Stanley is saying that the price of oil could plummet as low as $43 a barrel next year.

If that happens, it would be absolutely catastrophic to the most important industry in the United States.

In turn, that would be absolutely catastrophic for the economy as a whole.

So don�t let anyone tell you that much lower oil prices are �good� for the economy.

That is just a bunch of nonsense.
Posted By: cumminscowboy Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
around here costco and sams are .30-.40 cheaper than even the cheapest gas stations. That tells me gas stations are doing a fair amount of gouging and its bordering on price fixing. For me its $10 cheaper to fill up my tank at costco. So I will make a special trip.

With diesel its even worse. Since there are less stations that sell diesel you really see some erratic prices with it. that is one of the reasons I am really glad I don't own a diesel vehicle anymore. its not uncommon for one station selling diesel to be 40 cents a gallon more than one south of me that is actually further away from the refinery.
Posted By: Paladin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by Paladin
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by EdM
To those that think cheap fuel is good, well, you'll see.
High fuel has just about killed the economy in this country. Probably each one of those new oil field jobs cost 2-3 jobs in other sectors. It's a closed system. Money isn't "created" out of thin air, unless you're a bankster with access to the national printing press.

I guess I'm a little slow.

Would you mind explaining how 2-3 jobs in "other" sectors are lost, and how it's a closed system?

Since I'm slow, you could start by letting me know what the "other" sectors are, maybe with a simple list.

However, I'm most interested in the "closed system" part, so if you could explain that in simple terms it would help me a lot.

Thanks.




Roger,

Thanks for the response. However, my questions weren't directed to you.

I now see how "other" sector jobs are lost and the oilfield is a "closed system".

How dare you confuse the issue with logic and/or fact. And stop your whining. You're starting to act like a farmer. grin

Posted By: Fireball2 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by stxhunter
http://800whistleblower.com/anyone-...rices-are-good-for-the-economy-is-crazy/


Home > Economic Collapse > >Anyone That Believes That Collapsing Oil Prices Are Good For The Economy Is Crazy
>Anyone That Believes That Collapsing Oil Prices Are Good For The Economy Is Crazy

Oil - Public DomainAre much lower oil prices good news for the U.S. economy? Only if you like collapsing capital expenditures, rising unemployment and a potential financial implosion on Wall Street. Yes, lower gasoline prices are good news for the middle class. I certainly would rather pay two dollars for a gallon of gas than four dollars. But in order to have money to fill up your vehicle you have got to have an income first. And since the last recession, the energy sector has been the number one creator of good jobs in the U.S. economy by far. Barack Obama loves to stand up and take credit for the fact that the employment picture in this country has been improving slightly, but without the energy industry boom, unemployment would be through the roof. And now that the �energy boom� is rapidly becoming an �energy bust�, what will happen to the struggling U.S. economy as we head into 2015?

At the start of this article I mentioned that much lower oil prices would result in �collapsing capital expenditures�.

If you do not know what a �capital expenditure� is, the following is a definition that comes from Investopedia�

�Funds used by a company to acquire or upgrade physical assets such as property, industrial buildings or equipment. This type of outlay is made by companies to maintain or increase the scope of their operations. These expenditures can include everything from repairing a roof to building a brand new factory.�

Needless to say, this kind of spending is very good for an economy. It builds infrastructure, it creates jobs and it is an investment in the future.

In recent years, energy companies have been pouring massive amounts of money into capital expenditures. In fact, the energy sector currently accounts for about a third of all capital expenditures in the United States according to Deutsche Bank�

US private investment spending is usually ~15% of US GDP or $2.8trn now. This investment consists of $1.6trn spent annually on equipment and software, $700bn on non-residential construction and a bit over $500bn on residential. Equipment and software is 35% technology and communications, 25-30% is industrial equipment for energy, utilities and agriculture, 15% is transportation equipment, with remaining 20-25% related to other industries or intangibles. Non-residential construction is 20% oil and gas producing structures and 30% is energy related in total. We estimate global investment spending is 20% of S&P EPS or 12% from US. The Energy sector is responsible for a third of S&P 500 capex.

These companies make these investments because they believe that there are big profits to be made.

Unfortunately, when the price of oil crashes those investments become unprofitable and capital expenditures start getting slashed almost immediately.

For example, the budget for 2015 at ConocoPhillips has already been reduced by 20 percent�

ConocoPhillips is one of the bigger shale players. And its decision to slash its budget for next year by 20% is raising eyebrows. The company said the new target reflects lower spending on major projects as well as �unconventional plays.� Despite the expectation that others will follow, it doesn�t mean U.S. shale oil production is dead. Just don�t expect a surge in spending like in recent years.

And Reuters is reporting that the number of new well permits for the industry as a whole plunged by an astounding 40 percent during the month of November�

Plunging oil prices sparked a drop of almost 40 percent in new well permits issued across the United States in November, in a sudden pause in the growth of the U.S. shale oil and gas boom that started around 2007.

Data provided exclusively to Reuters on Tuesday by industry data firm Drilling Info Inc showed 4,520 new well permits were approved last month, down from 7,227 in October.

If the price of oil stays this low or continues dropping, this is just the beginning.

Meanwhile, the flow of good jobs that this industry has been producing is also likely to start drying up.

According to the Perryman Group, the energy sector currently supports 9.3 million permanent jobs in this country�

According to a new study, investments in oil and gas exploration and production generate substantial economic gains, as well as other benefits such as increased energy independence. The Perryman Group estimates that the industry as a whole generates an economic stimulus of almost $1.2 trillion in gross product each year, as well as more than 9.3 million permanent jobs across the nation.

The ripple effects are everywhere. If you think about the role of oil in your life, it is not only the primary source of many of our fuels, but is also critical to our lubricants, chemicals, synthetic fibers, pharmaceuticals, plastics, and many other items we come into contact with every day. The industry supports almost 1.3 million jobs in manufacturing alone and is responsible for almost $1.2 trillion in annual gross domestic product. If you think about the law, accounting, and engineering firms that serve the industry, the pipe, drilling equipment, and other manufactured goods that it requires, and the large payrolls and their effects on consumer spending, you will begin to get a picture of the enormity of the industry.

And these are good paying jobs. They aren�t eight dollar part-time jobs down at your local big box retailer. These are jobs that comfortably support middle class families. These are precisely the kinds of jobs that we cannot afford to lose.

In recent years, there has been a noticeable economic difference between areas of the country where energy is being produced and where energy is not being produced.

Since December 2007, a total of 1.36 million jobs have been gained in shale oil states.

Meanwhile, a total of 424,000 jobs have been lost in non-shale oil states.

So what happens now that the shale oil boom is turning into a bust?

That is a very good question.

Even more ominous is what an oil price collapse could mean for our financial system.

The last time the price of oil declined by more than 40 dollars in less than six months, there was a financial meltdown on Wall Street and we experienced the deepest recession that we have seen since the days of the Great Depression.

And now many fear that this collapse in the price of oil could trigger another financial panic.

According to Citigroup, the energy sector now accounts for 17 percent of the high yield bond market.

J.P. Morgan says that it is actually 18 percent.

In any event, the reality of the matter is that the health of these �junk bonds� is absolutely critical to our financial system. And according to Deutsche Bank, if these bonds start defaulting it could �trigger a broader high-yield market default cycle��

Based on recent stress tests of subprime borrowers in the energy sector in the US produced by Deutsche Bank, should the price of US crude fall by a further 20pc to $60 per barrel, it could result in up to a 30pc default rate among B and CCC rated high-yield US borrowers in the industry. West Texas Intermediate crude is currently trading at multi-year lows of around $75 per barrel, down from $107 per barrel in June.

�A shock of that magnitude could be sufficient to trigger a broader high-yield market default cycle, if materialized,� warn Deutsche strategists Oleg Melentyev and Daniel Sorid in their report.

If the price of oil stays at this level or continues to go down, it is inevitable that we will start to see some of these junk bonds go bad.

In fact, one Motley Fool article recently stated that one industry analyst believes that up to 40 percent of all energy junk bonds could eventually go into default�

The junk bonds, or noninvestment-rated bonds, of energy companies are also beginning to see heavy selling as investors start to worry that drillers could one day default on these bonds. Those defaults could get so bad, according to one analyst, that up to 40% of all energy junk bonds go into default over the next few years if oil prices don�t recover.

That would be a total nightmare for Wall Street.

And of course bond defaults would only be part of the equation. As I wrote about the other day, a crash in junk bonds is almost always followed by a significant stock market correction.

In addition, plunging oil prices could end up absolutely destroying the banks that are holding enormous amounts of energy derivatives. This is something that I recently covered in this article and this article.

As you read this, there are five �too big to fail� banks that each have more than 40 trillion dollars in exposure to derivatives. Of course only a small fraction of that total exposure is made up of energy derivatives, but a small fraction of 40 trillion dollars is still a massive amount of money.

These derivatives trades are largely unregulated, and even Forbes admits that they are likely to be at the heart of the coming financial collapse�

No one understands the derivative risk positions of the Too Big To Fail Banks, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley. There is presently no way to measure the risks involved in the leverage, quantity of collateral, or stability of counter-parties for these major institutions. To me personally they are big black holes capable of potential wrack and ruin. Without access to confidential internal data about these risky derivative positions the regulators cannot react in a timely and measured fashion to block the threat to financial stability, according to a National Bureau of Economic Research study.

So do we have any hope?

Yes, if oil prices start going back up, much of what you just read about can be averted.

Unfortunately, that does not seem likely any time soon. Even though U.S. energy companies are cutting back on capital expenditures, most of them are still actually projecting an increase in production for 2015. Here is one example from Bloomberg�

Continental, the biggest holder of drilling rights in the Bakken, last month said 2015 output will grow between 23 percent and 29 percent even after shelving plans to allocate more money to exploration.

Higher levels of production will just drive the price of oil even lower.

At this point, Morgan Stanley is saying that the price of oil could plummet as low as $43 a barrel next year.

If that happens, it would be absolutely catastrophic to the most important industry in the United States.

In turn, that would be absolutely catastrophic for the economy as a whole.

So don�t let anyone tell you that much lower oil prices are �good� for the economy.

That is just a bunch of nonsense.


Any defense of the oil companies will need to be at least that long.
Posted By: stxhunter Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
i used the quick reply, hoping to have time after the first of the yr to do that nilgia hunt.
Posted By: NathanL Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
around here costco and sams are .30-.40 cheaper than even the cheapest gas stations. That tells me gas stations are doing a fair amount of gouging and its bordering on price fixing. For me its $10 cheaper to fill up my tank at costco. So I will make a special trip.

With diesel its even worse. Since there are less stations that sell diesel you really see some erratic prices with it. that is one of the reasons I am really glad I don't own a diesel vehicle anymore. its not uncommon for one station selling diesel to be 40 cents a gallon more than one south of me that is actually further away from the refinery.


In almost all areas of the country the fuel is delivered to the gas station from a terminal, they aren't driving up to the refinery and getting it.
Posted By: dennisinaz Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
Originally Posted by milespatton
Quote
The red dyed stuff works really good and is much cheaper. When is the last time someone stopped you and asked to look in your fuel tank???


They do it pretty regular in farm country. Especially grain trucks, but they check pickups too. Tickets are high so I am told. miles


Just keep your old motor oil and add a gallon or so to each tank of red fuel. It turns it black and that is the end of that. Red fuel here is only 18 cents cheaper- not worth the hassle


I confess to having a rebellious streak that tells me this is ingenious. Then my practical side says, "You got a family fool, do the right thing!" If nothing else, I do not want to be known as the guy that cheats everywhere he can.
I would love to save some money, but I don't think I like the price I'd pay to do it.


There are some folks that have access to free red fuel. This is more directed at them. If you have to go buy it you are a cheapskate.
Posted By: lynntelk Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Pretty much hit the nail on the head.
Posted By: Pete E Re: Diesel fuel - 12/13/14
Originally Posted by dennisinaz

Just keep your old motor oil and add a gallon or so to each tank of red fuel. It turns it black and that is the end of that. Red fuel here is only 18 cents cheaper- not worth the hassle


Be careful, I believe its no longer that that straight forward..As others have said, these days the Customs folks can just use a probe in the exhaust to determine whether you've been using Red or not..
Posted By: dennisinaz Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
I call BS on that. You can use red fuel all you want off road, you just can't have it in your truck when on the highway. You could always claim you used it only on a construction site or on a farm. They would not be able to say to the contrary.
Posted By: memtb Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
We're still getting "raped" here in the Big Horn Basin - 3.79/gal. at 05:00 hrs. this morn. in Thermopolis memtb
Posted By: Pete E Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
I call BS on that. You can use red fuel all you want off road, you just can't have it in your truck when on the highway. You could always claim you used it only on a construction site or on a farm. They would not be able to say to the contrary.


I have often wondered about that "get-out" myself, but over here at least it doesn't apparently work..

Even in the US, given the size of the fines, the potential saving from using red, and the simplicity of the excuse, I would imagine if it were feasible, lot of folks would be exploiting that particular legal loophole?
Posted By: kend Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Get the Gas Buddy app. 2.85 around here
Posted By: jnyork Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
So, let me get this straight.

High fuel prices are bad for the economy.

Low fuel prices are bad for the economy.

Back under my rock now. whistle
Posted By: SamOlson Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
It does kinda suck that most of the time we aren't even on the highway with the feed pickup but still have to use taxed fuel for everything.

At 7mpg average, for 5-6 months straight.


Posted By: oulufinn Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Saw it for 2.49 at a little Citgo in Friendswood, TX yesterday. Saw regular unleaded for 1.98 somewhere around here a couple of days ago.

Hope the price of crude doesn't stay sub-60 dollars for too long. That will cause a pretty good crunch in oil producing country.
Posted By: blanket Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
As far as red fuel in my part of the country you could get away with it if you never went to a sale barn, elevator, stop to eat, farm store, auction, or pull a stock trailer. Last I knew the fines were based on the miles on your truck and to pay the road tax from zero miles plus interest plus fines
Posted By: Dillonbuck Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Have to use taxed in a backhoe in case it is driven on the road. Farm tractors are exempt. Taxed diesel is mostly clear. Any trace of red and it is considered red. Also don't forget, at least in my area, red is low sulphur<500ppm if you are driving a later diesel you need ultra low sulphur diesel (usld) <15ppm sulphur
Posted By: dennisinaz Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Some of us add Marvel mystery oil and it is red!
Posted By: mark shubert Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Why is it - when oil prices tank, it's called an economic disaster.
When food prices tank it's called "a market correction" ?
Posted By: Bigbuck215 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by Paladin
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by EdM
To those that think cheap fuel is good, well, you'll see.
High fuel has just about killed the economy in this country. Probably each one of those new oil field jobs cost 2-3 jobs in other sectors. It's a closed system. Money isn't "created" out of thin air, unless you're a bankster with access to the national printing press.

I guess I'm a little slow.

Would you mind explaining how 2-3 jobs in "other" sectors is lost, and how it's a closed system?

Since I'm slow, you could start by letting me know what the "other" sectors are, maybe with a simple list.

However, I'm most interested in the "closed system" part, so if you could explain that in simple terms it would help me a lot.

Thanks.




Ethan, I'm with Paladin on wanting to hear your answer.
Posted By: krp Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by mark shubert
Why is it - when oil prices tank, it's called an economic disaster.
When food prices tank it's called "a market correction" ?


It is a correction. The bigger the bubble the harder the correction. Housing, mining and oil are historically in this cycle. If what's happening now suprises anyone or catches them unawares... well, there's only one person to blame.

Housing economic impact dwarfs oil and mining nationally. That was a disaster we finally came out of last year, that was the biggest bubble and burst ever.

Oil will go down, then back up and stabilize, until then lower prices will spur all the other larger markets, lower shipping, ag, manufacturing.

Until the next bubble...

Kent
Posted By: Fireball2 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Not directed at anyone in particular, but some of you need to step away from the Koolaid. Lower prices are good for everyone that drives, and just about every industry you could name except oil. The country as a whole could get moving again with lower fuel prices.
Posted By: Calvin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
fireball,

You seem to be not thinking here.

What about the trucking companies who haul supplies/materials to the oil fields? What about the companies who manufacture those supplies? What about those who supply those manufacturers with raw materials? And all those workers along the entire supply chain? Do you realize how much capex projects pump into the economy? No, you don't apparently. Get rid of those, and get rid of a lot of good paying blue collar jobs that were created well away from the oilfields.

I know things suck in Oregon, as you don't have oil/gas. But, the country has been moving along nicely the last 5 years thanks to our energy "boom". Good jobs created well beyond the oilfield, and money has been flowing. Cut that off, and everywhere will suck like Oregon.

Now, put that thinking cap on and start using it.
Posted By: Take_a_knee Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Not directed at anyone in particular, but some of you need to step away from the Koolaid. Lower prices are good for everyone that drives, and just about every industry you could name except oil. The country as a whole could get moving again with lower fuel prices.


100$/barrel oil was the final straw that popped the bubble in 2008.
Posted By: Calvin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Explain how oil popped the housing bubble. This ought to be good.
Posted By: Take_a_knee Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by Calvin
Explain how oil popped the housing bubble. This ought to be good.


People couldn't pay their mortagages AND fill their tanks, dumbazz.
Posted By: Crow hunter Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Nothing exists in a vacuum in the economy. The housing bubble was created by a lot of factors, one of which was Clinton's stupid shenanigans to try and make it where every unemployed deadbeat would be able to buy a house via government backed loans. This drove the prices through the roof because you had people bidding on houses that weren't spending their own money so they had no reason to shop wisely. These same people were already borrowing from Peter to pay Paul when fuel went through the roof driving food prices up due to shipping costs. Couple that with an increase of $1000 a month in the household fuel budget and now they couldn't pay the mortgage. Defaults happen and the whole house of cards came down. Think $1000 a month increase in the fuel budget is an exaggeration? Not everybody lives in suburbia and if you live in the boondocks as I do and drive 40K a year to get to work/shopping then a doubling of fuel prices costs a lot of beer money unless you've got some econobox vehicle. Therefore high fuel costs cost a lot of jobs in the construction industry since housing starts went to near zero.

At the same time some manufacturing was brought back to the U.S. from China because of higher shipping costs, that's a plus. They created a lot of 6 figure jobs in the the oil patch for guys without college degrees, that's a plus. A guy near me that started a directional drilling company got rich and could afford to build an 8000 sq ft mansion creating more local construction jobs, that's a plus. He also takes about 20 of his guys to west texas to hunt high fenced whitetails every year pumping a lot of money into the economy there, that's a plus. My local taxidermist gets $500 a head to mount those grain fed hormone pumped freaks, that's a plus. Moving more production and exploration to the U.S. and Canada has to count as a plus, getting us away from being as dependent upon muslim countries that hate us and totalitarian regimes like Russia.

Airline tickets went up so less people traveled. The tourist industry took a hit due to less tourists so less hotel workers and food workers, that's a minus. Vehicle sales stalled since people couldn't afford new vehicles so less auto worker jobs, that's a minus.

So on and so on... Everything is affected somehow by the price of oil so who can really say whether high oil prices are good or bad. My gut feeling is that the good done by the extra jobs created by high oil prices is outweighed about 5 fold by the bad it does to the rest of the economy. Despite the all the Obama administration BS and the completely falsified unemployment numbers, there are still more unemployed people in this country than any point in history along with more on food stamps. That's NOT a plus.
Posted By: cal74 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by 4321
Originally Posted by Calvin
Explain how oil popped the housing bubble. This ought to be good.


People couldn't pay their mortagages AND fill their tanks, dumbazz.


At that same time there's a large portion of the US that burns or burnt fuel oil for their home heating. I was one of them.

My heating costs went up 300-400%, thankfully I was able to pay my bills but that pretty much wiped out any extra money I had. Ad into the factor that about everything else went up in price as well.


As mentioned above they made it so everyone could be in way more house than they could afford so when the line was stretched a little more it snapped.
Posted By: horse1 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
So what are the magic numbers for a bbl of oil as well as a gallon of gasoline and a gallon of diesel?

$75-$85, $2.00-$2.50, $2.50-$3.00 wouldn't piss me off, but is that enough to keep domestic production at least sustainable? I have no clue. As of 12/14 ND has 1.5% fewer rigs actively drilling vs. the 5yr average. 181 vs. 184. In all reality, 120-150 active rigs would probably give everyone a chance to catch their breath and we'd have a chance to catch up a bit on infrastructure without killing investment.

A couple of pipelines would keep many of the same blue collar folks working for similar salaries and do a lot to ease the discount ND/MT (Baaken) crude has to take due to trucks and trains being the only way to get the crude to market.

The above isn't gospel, more like grabbing numbers out of thin air in hopes that folks that know lots more than I do about energy exploration can give a better understanding of where the numbers need to be.
Posted By: norm99 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by atomchaser
Enjoy it while it lasts. Once the Saudis kill of the weaker, higher production cost competition and put the breaks on US exploration and production, you'll see the prices skyrocket again. The low prices are benefit to consumers in the short term but strategically it's going to create instability in many countries.


I don't mind if the ruskies are having trouble, slow them down some more.
going to work yesterday there was lots of pump jacks idle waiting for the price to rise again.lots of companies can shut down a few which adds up to good volumes on the overall picture.
Also when they start up again some of the wells are more productive.
we are still building leases and opening up old ones to drill deeper and horizontal. cheaper when you are not having to build more road , and some of the new leases arebuilt for up to 18 wells , less cost less environtal disturbance fewer roads.

norm
Posted By: EthanEdwards Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by Crow hunter
Nothing exists in a vacuum in the economy. The housing bubble was created by a lot of factors, one of which was Clinton's stupid shenanigans to try and make it where every unemployed deadbeat would be able to buy a house via government backed loans. This drove the prices through the roof because you had people bidding on houses that weren't spending their own money so they had no reason to shop wisely. These same people were already borrowing from Peter to pay Paul when fuel went through the roof driving food prices up due to shipping costs. Couple that with an increase of $1000 a month in the household fuel budget and now they couldn't pay the mortgage. Defaults happen and the whole house of cards came down. Think $1000 a month increase in the fuel budget is an exaggeration? Not everybody lives in suburbia and if you live in the boondocks as I do and drive 40K a year to get to work/shopping then a doubling of fuel prices costs a lot of beer money unless you've got some econobox vehicle. Therefore high fuel costs cost a lot of jobs in the construction industry since housing starts went to near zero.

At the same time some manufacturing was brought back to the U.S. from China because of higher shipping costs, that's a plus. They created a lot of 6 figure jobs in the the oil patch for guys without college degrees, that's a plus. A guy near me that started a directional drilling company got rich and could afford to build an 8000 sq ft mansion creating more local construction jobs, that's a plus. He also takes about 20 of his guys to west texas to hunt high fenced whitetails every year pumping a lot of money into the economy there, that's a plus. My local taxidermist gets $500 a head to mount those grain fed hormone pumped freaks, that's a plus. Moving more production and exploration to the U.S. and Canada has to count as a plus, getting us away from being as dependent upon muslim countries that hate us and totalitarian regimes like Russia.

Airline tickets went up so less people traveled. The tourist industry took a hit due to less tourists so less hotel workers and food workers, that's a minus. Vehicle sales stalled since people couldn't afford new vehicles so less auto worker jobs, that's a minus.

So on and so on... Everything is affected somehow by the price of oil so who can really say whether high oil prices are good or bad. My gut feeling is that the good done by the extra jobs created by high oil prices is outweighed about 5 fold by the bad it does to the rest of the economy. Despite the all the Obama administration BS and the completely falsified unemployment numbers, there are still more unemployed people in this country than any point in history along with more on food stamps. That's NOT a plus.
The jobs created in the oil industry were at the huge expense of more jobs in other sectors...IMO. Much was made of the "jobless recovery" and the stock market has went wild whilst many of our seniors lost their entire savings through spending up their principals rather than getting any decent interest over the past decade.

I'm sorry, but to me, the stock market is the very province of the money changers and those who do not work for a living. The stock market heading down only bothers me when good people lose jobs because of it. People think money comes out of the air. Well, when the only money that generations have known is paper, then I guess that's true.
Posted By: krp Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by Calvin
fireball,

You seem to be not thinking here.

What about the trucking companies who haul supplies/materials to the oil fields? What about the companies who manufacture those supplies? What about those who supply those manufacturers with raw materials? And all those workers along the entire supply chain? Do you realize how much capex projects pump into the economy? No, you don't apparently. Get rid of those, and get rid of a lot of good paying blue collar jobs that were created well away from the oilfields.

I know things suck in Oregon, as you don't have oil/gas. But, the country has been moving along nicely the last 5 years thanks to our energy "boom". Good jobs created well beyond the oilfield, and money has been flowing. Cut that off, and everywhere will suck like Oregon.

Now, put that thinking cap on and start using it.


We just lived through this 10 fold through the housing boom and bust.

For every guy in swinging a hammer... the lumber jack, sawmill, truss yard, redimix plant, steel yard, cement mine, gravel pits, truckers, copper mines, plumbing supplies, electrical, vehicles, excavators, equipment that can pump pull lift push and demolish, secretaries, salesmen, insurances, credit lines...

It was interesting that no one understood GM's main reason it needed bailing out. GMAC financing on all those fleets and specialty orders of construction vehicles. If you think 22lf being in short supply is a pain, imagine trying to find a concrete truck, crane, boom pump, lift all, dump truck, flatbed... during the boom... and the manufacturers going balls to the walls putting them out... then eating those orders and all self financing of previous after the bust.

The cities, counties, states, and feds were eating high on the hog... county's impact fees per unit sky rocketed thousands of dollars, drunk on new riches they built fancy offices, new schools, new vehicles, wasting money. Arizona under Napalitano was one billion in the surplus, the bitch spent it on special interests, locking in budgetary mandates that guaranteed 83% of state budget, when Brewer inherited the mess she was tied to budget cuts in only 17%. After the bust the mayor of Mesa said, we had one building permit start the last two months, we do have businesses that generate revenue, but it takes a lot of shoe sales to equal one home start.

During the boom, an illegal was making 15 an hour to start as a laborer and 25 if they had any skills. Americans were making high 5 figures to low six figures for uneducated skilled workers.

Sound familiar?

When production is spurred by consumer use it produces a sound economy... when it is spurred by investment futures turnover it becomes a ponzi scheme, bubble and will burst.

Kent

Posted By: Fireball2 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Lower prices are good for everyone that drives,


Read that again real slow and tell me how high fuel prices are good for America. Sure, good for a few. The reason the oil boom looks so good right now is 1) it is good 2) the rest of the economy has been systematically destroyed by the administration in charge, so anything working looks good right now.

Maybe the reason this doesn't resonate with the oil guys (and others) on here is that they are in the economic strata above needing to think about how much it costs to drive 300 miles to go bird hunting. Alot of the country is not in that position.

When fuel hit $4-$4.50 a gallon we stopped driving any extra and stayed current on our other bills. I guess we shoulda stopped making our house payment and cried for govt assistance? We didn't support any of the businesses that require us to be driving around like tourists or hunting far from home. It literally drove us indoors.

It had a far reaching impact in our lifestyle when our monthly fuel bill hit $1700-1800. We bought my wife a hybrid car that gets 40mpg. I started planning a whole lot better with driving my trucks. I cut out hunting birds and coyotes.

Honestly, I can't believe I even have to explain it. High fuel prices kill working people, which kills the economy, at least where I'm from. I guess most of you guys have a cush life going. We are just working, raising three kids.
Posted By: ring3 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by 4321
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Not directed at anyone in particular, but some of you need to step away from the Koolaid. Lower prices are good for everyone that drives, and just about every industry you could name except oil. The country as a whole could get moving again with lower fuel prices.


100$/barrel oil was the final straw that popped the bubble in 2008.


I remember it closer to $150 when the market began its big drop.

Coming into Nashville I saw gasoline at $2.11 and diesel at $3.05. Significantly less than the Wheeling WV area.

Incredible gas boom in my area. Wells/rigs everywhere. At least 4 large processing plants within 20 miles of me. All employing lots of construction and operators. Coal also continues to boom locally. Steel and aluminum are gone. Chemicals hanging on and some are bolstered by the drilling. Young people have opportunities not seen since the 70's.

We ship by rail, barge and truck as do the other industries. When oil was well over $100 surcharges were imposed. I also remember UPS surcharges on deliveries. Without these charges and overall cheaper costs of moving goods I would think the economy will benefit. May be however I'm missing something in the big picture.
Posted By: dennisinaz Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
I would like to see it stabilize at $2 a gallon for both fuel and gasoline. That would sustain both industries; oil and all the rest!
Posted By: Take_a_knee Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
I would like to see it stabilize at $2 a gallon for both fuel and gasoline. That would sustain both industries; oil and all the rest!


Newt Gingrich agrees, and he's actually crunched the numbers unlike any of us.
Posted By: Fireball2 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
I would like to see it stabilize at $2 a gallon for both fuel and gasoline. That would sustain both industries; oil and all the rest!


I don't know if it would sustain oil or not, but it sure would help


100 FRICKEN %

of people that drive.
Posted By: ironeagle_84 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/14/14
Fireball, I hear you on the cutting out hunting thing. I had to give up going to my favorite spots for several years because of the costs in fuel. Its only 100 miles round trip, but thats a killer of the deal when i HAVE to be able to pay for fuel to get to work and back and anywhere else i have to be.

For two years, i rarely, if ever, saw my tank full. Now, my wife is working and we are able to put fuel in both rigs, have a few extra dollars to claw our way out of debt and even get my son a few Christmas presents.

Some simple numbers for those of you who cant seem to wrap your heads around this...

$40 is your fuel budget for two weeks.

Your car gets 15 MPG in town, 25 on the highway.

You have to drive to work and back 10 times in 14 days. In my specific case, it is 2 miles to work and back. So 4 miles all told. For my wife it is 8 miles round trip.

Now, at $4 a gallon, you get 10 gallons of fuel. That 10 gallons only nets you 150 miles in town, closer to 250 on the freeway. I am left with 110 drivable miles in town. A trip to some stores is nearly 10 miles round trip. I do my best to grocery shop in large quantities, and that means a 70 mile round trip to Costco, or Winco. My gas goes away pretty quickly. Same goes for my wife's car. And for a long time, we only had one car to do all the traveling. Take into account doctor appointments, errands, store runs for something you need or forgot, and anything else that may come up, you can see how only getting 10 gallons of fuel can limit your ability to do ANYTHING other than the bare essentials.

Now, drop the cost of fuel to $2 a gallon and see how the only thing that changes is the ability to go twice as far for the same $40, and maybe sneak in a hunt or family based activity with the leftover cash?

Why is this so hard for some people to comprehend?

Fireball has his driving to consider, and i have mine. Mine is significantly less than his, but we were both effected pretty much the same by the cost of fuel.
Posted By: Redneck Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
$3.69 here... Gas is $2.59...

Talked to a friend on Saturday who is a medium-truck salesman at a large metro dealer.. He says the majority of those trucks are now being ordered with the gas V-10s due to 4 factors:

1 Diesel engine costs $8K+ more than the V-10
2 Gas engine uses no DEF
3 Gas prices, at $2.59 +/- far outweigh the diesel engine advantages in power/fuel etc at this time...
4. Gas engines start easily in cold weather. (most Ford mediums use Cummins diesels..)

Posted By: Raeford Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
I started charting my business's sales and gas/oil prices back in 08. sales on top, oil on bottom. It is amazing to see how they come together when oil is up and separate when oil/gas is down. The past and current two months[which are normally dismal for us]are looking to be two of our best of the year.

So I'm in the low fuel prices are good category.
Posted By: Calvin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
Originally Posted by krp
Originally Posted by Calvin
fireball,

You seem to be not thinking here.

What about the trucking companies who haul supplies/materials to the oil fields? What about the companies who manufacture those supplies? What about those who supply those manufacturers with raw materials? And all those workers along the entire supply chain? Do you realize how much capex projects pump into the economy? No, you don't apparently. Get rid of those, and get rid of a lot of good paying blue collar jobs that were created well away from the oilfields.

I know things suck in Oregon, as you don't have oil/gas. But, the country has been moving along nicely the last 5 years thanks to our energy "boom". Good jobs created well beyond the oilfield, and money has been flowing. Cut that off, and everywhere will suck like Oregon.

Now, put that thinking cap on and start using it.


We just lived through this 10 fold through the housing boom and bust.

For every guy in swinging a hammer... the lumber jack, sawmill, truss yard, redimix plant, steel yard, cement mine, gravel pits, truckers, copper mines, plumbing supplies, electrical, vehicles, excavators, equipment that can pump pull lift push and demolish, secretaries, salesmen, insurances, credit lines...

It was interesting that no one understood GM's main reason it needed bailing out. GMAC financing on all those fleets and specialty orders of construction vehicles. If you think 22lf being in short supply is a pain, imagine trying to find a concrete truck, crane, boom pump, lift all, dump truck, flatbed... during the boom... and the manufacturers going balls to the walls putting them out... then eating those orders and all self financing of previous after the bust.

The cities, counties, states, and feds were eating high on the hog... county's impact fees per unit sky rocketed thousands of dollars, drunk on new riches they built fancy offices, new schools, new vehicles, wasting money. Arizona under Napalitano was one billion in the surplus, the bitch spent it on special interests, locking in budgetary mandates that guaranteed 83% of state budget, when Brewer inherited the mess she was tied to budget cuts in only 17%. After the bust the mayor of Mesa said, we had one building permit start the last two months, we do have businesses that generate revenue, but it takes a lot of shoe sales to equal one home start.

During the boom, an illegal was making 15 an hour to start as a laborer and 25 if they had any skills. Americans were making high 5 figures to low six figures for uneducated skilled workers.

Sound familiar?

When production is spurred by consumer use it produces a sound economy... when it is spurred by investment futures turnover it becomes a ponzi scheme, bubble and will burst.

Kent



KRP,

With all due respect, you care comparing two industries that aren't the same. Two situations that are completely different. Oil/Gas ain't housing. Not even close. There is no bubble in oil/gas.
Posted By: Calvin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
Not to pick on you, but your situation is the EXACT reason why we need good paying jobs here in the USA. If $40 every two weeks is all you can afford for gas, you need a better paying job. $1 gas wouldn't help you, to be honest with you. You need to be making double what you are making right now. I suggest you look at making a move to an area where oil/gas exploration/extraction is taking place. Work on getting a CDL.

Originally Posted by ironeagle_84
Fireball, I hear you on the cutting out hunting thing. I had to give up going to my favorite spots for several years because of the costs in fuel. Its only 100 miles round trip, but thats a killer of the deal when i HAVE to be able to pay for fuel to get to work and back and anywhere else i have to be.

For two years, i rarely, if ever, saw my tank full. Now, my wife is working and we are able to put fuel in both rigs, have a few extra dollars to claw our way out of debt and even get my son a few Christmas presents.

Some simple numbers for those of you who cant seem to wrap your heads around this...

$40 is your fuel budget for two weeks.

Your car gets 15 MPG in town, 25 on the highway.

You have to drive to work and back 10 times in 14 days. In my specific case, it is 2 miles to work and back. So 4 miles all told. For my wife it is 8 miles round trip.

Now, at $4 a gallon, you get 10 gallons of fuel. That 10 gallons only nets you 150 miles in town, closer to 250 on the freeway. I am left with 110 drivable miles in town. A trip to some stores is nearly 10 miles round trip. I do my best to grocery shop in large quantities, and that means a 70 mile round trip to Costco, or Winco. My gas goes away pretty quickly. Same goes for my wife's car. And for a long time, we only had one car to do all the traveling. Take into account doctor appointments, errands, store runs for something you need or forgot, and anything else that may come up, you can see how only getting 10 gallons of fuel can limit your ability to do ANYTHING other than the bare essentials.

Now, drop the cost of fuel to $2 a gallon and see how the only thing that changes is the ability to go twice as far for the same $40, and maybe sneak in a hunt or family based activity with the leftover cash?

Why is this so hard for some people to comprehend?

Fireball has his driving to consider, and i have mine. Mine is significantly less than his, but we were both effected pretty much the same by the cost of fuel.
Posted By: Calvin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
Originally Posted by 4321
Originally Posted by Calvin
Explain how oil popped the housing bubble. This ought to be good.


People couldn't pay their mortagages AND fill their tanks, dumbazz.


Really? Is that all you can come up with? You really need to find something else to do, besides the internet.
Posted By: deflave Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
Originally Posted by ironeagle_84
Fireball, I hear you on the cutting out hunting thing. I had to give up going to my favorite spots for several years because of the costs in fuel. Its only 100 miles round trip, but thats a killer of the deal when i HAVE to be able to pay for fuel to get to work and back and anywhere else i have to be.

For two years, i rarely, if ever, saw my tank full. Now, my wife is working and we are able to put fuel in both rigs, have a few extra dollars to claw our way out of debt and even get my son a few Christmas presents.

Some simple numbers for those of you who cant seem to wrap your heads around this...

$40 is your fuel budget for two weeks.

Your car gets 15 MPG in town, 25 on the highway.

You have to drive to work and back 10 times in 14 days. In my specific case, it is 2 miles to work and back. So 4 miles all told. For my wife it is 8 miles round trip.

Now, at $4 a gallon, you get 10 gallons of fuel. That 10 gallons only nets you 150 miles in town, closer to 250 on the freeway. I am left with 110 drivable miles in town. A trip to some stores is nearly 10 miles round trip. I do my best to grocery shop in large quantities, and that means a 70 mile round trip to Costco, or Winco. My gas goes away pretty quickly. Same goes for my wife's car. And for a long time, we only had one car to do all the traveling. Take into account doctor appointments, errands, store runs for something you need or forgot, and anything else that may come up, you can see how only getting 10 gallons of fuel can limit your ability to do ANYTHING other than the bare essentials.

Now, drop the cost of fuel to $2 a gallon and see how the only thing that changes is the ability to go twice as far for the same $40, and maybe sneak in a hunt or family based activity with the leftover cash?

Why is this so hard for some people to comprehend?

Fireball has his driving to consider, and i have mine. Mine is significantly less than his, but we were both effected pretty much the same by the cost of fuel.


Fuel could go to $.50 a gallon and you'd still need to make some changes.


Travis
Posted By: Raeford Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by 4321
Originally Posted by Calvin
Explain how oil popped the housing bubble. This ought to be good.


People couldn't pay their mortagages AND fill their tanks, dumbazz.


Really? Is that all you can come up with? You really need to find something else to do, besides the internet.


....and heat their homes and commercial bldgs.
Posted By: Raeford Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
What I haven't seen mentioned[but have not read every reply] is this:
Fuel/oil/gas rose very quickly triggered by Katrina not giving "cost of living" a chance to catch up. Inflation went wild on the product most of us need-food. While .gov may not include food in their formula, in my experience it's pretty damned important.
While I can cut out most things[extras] in life food and fuel just can't be given up.
Posted By: Take_a_knee Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
Originally Posted by Raeford

Fuel/oil/gas rose very quickly triggered by Katrina not giving "cost of living" a chance to catch up. Inflation went wild on the product most of us need-food. While .gov may not include food in their formula, in my experience it's pretty damned important.


A HUGE chunk of the cost of food is oil. Tractor fuel, fertilizer (oil by product), and of course, ethanol. Of course, that didn't really matter, did it Calvin (bless your heart).

TFF
Posted By: Calvin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
You guys are missing the big picture here.

Do you think that Saudi Arabia wants to sell it's oil for 40-60 a bbl? They have the top oil economists on the planet on their payroll. They know that if they drive the price down to these levels, they can starve out our industry, and in 4-5 years have oil back up to $150 a bbl.

The Saudi's ain't gonna lose money in this. In the long term, they'll win. The American consumer surely isn't going to be the winner in all of this. Sure he might save some money on fuel the next year or two, but then he'll lose all that and more over the next 10.

The NA drilling/exploration was a chance to get a stable market price for oil. Once that's gone, you better be ready for fuel prices we haven't even seen yet.
Posted By: Calvin Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
Originally Posted by 4321
Originally Posted by Raeford

Fuel/oil/gas rose very quickly triggered by Katrina not giving "cost of living" a chance to catch up. Inflation went wild on the product most of us need-food. While .gov may not include food in their formula, in my experience it's pretty damned important.


A HUGE chunk of the cost of food is oil. Tractor fuel, fertilizer (oil by product), and of course, ethanol. Of course, that didn't really matter, did it Calvin (bless your heart).

TFF


You really need to find something to do besides the internet.
Posted By: Take_a_knee Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
Originally Posted by Calvin


The Saudi's ain't gonna lose money in this. In the long term, they'll win. The American consumer surely isn't going to be the winner in all of this. Sure he might save some money on fuel the next year or two, but then he'll lose all that and more over the next 10.

The NA drilling/exploration was a chance to get a stable market price for oil. Once that's gone, you better be ready for fuel prices we haven't even seen yet.


Damn you're dumb. You ever been to Saudi Arabia?
Posted By: Raeford Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
Originally Posted by Calvin
You guys are missing the big picture here.

Do you think that Saudi Arabia wants to sell it's oil for 40-60 a bbl? They have the top oil economists on the planet on their payroll. They know that if they drive the price down to these levels, they can starve out our industry, and in 4-5 years have oil back up to $150 a bbl.

The Saudi's ain't gonna lose money in this. In the long term, they'll win. The American consumer surely isn't going to be the winner in all of this. Sure he might save some money on fuel the next year or two, but then he'll lose all that and more over the next 10.

The NA drilling/exploration was a chance to get a stable market price for oil. Once that's gone, you better be ready for fuel prices we haven't even seen yet.


If given some time, I can adjust no problem.
Posted By: Seafire Re: Diesel fuel - 12/15/14
Back on topic....

Have noticed locally, that fuel prices are varying dramatically...

2 companies own a buttload of the local stations pumping fuel in the Valley here...have noticed as dramatic as an 80 cents a gallon swing in local fuel prices, and sometimes just up the street from each other...

I've seen diesel range from $2.89 a gallon to $3.69 a gallon, just going to Walmart yesterday...

Paid $2.39 for regular last night, yet still see stations with $2.99 a gallon and then the latest around town fad is to charge 10 cents a gallon more if you use a credit or debit card...


was up in Roseburg on Friday, and got fuel for $2.59 a gallon, and yet right next to that station was another that was charging $3.79 a gallon for regular...I asked the person pumping my gas if they ever see any customers over there....and the answer pissed me off to no end...

The $3.79 a gallon station is owned by a Former Big Time State Legislator, and is now still wrapped up in local politics...

Most of the vehicles pulling into his station to fill up ( according at least to the gal pumping my gas), have State Plates on them, or are local County owned vehicles.....

The station owner is a Democrat.. but what does that matter.... and who would have guessed, right???
Posted By: BWalker Re: Diesel fuel - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by Calvin
You guys are missing the big picture here.

Do you think that Saudi Arabia wants to sell it's oil for 40-60 a bbl? They have the top oil economists on the planet on their payroll. They know that if they drive the price down to these levels, they can starve out our industry, and in 4-5 years have oil back up to $150 a bbl.

The Saudi's ain't gonna lose money in this. In the long term, they'll win. The American consumer surely isn't going to be the winner in all of this. Sure he might save some money on fuel the next year or two, but then he'll lose all that and more over the next 10.

The NA drilling/exploration was a chance to get a stable market price for oil. Once that's gone, you better be ready for fuel prices we haven't even seen yet.

Calvin, what you are saying is true to a point, but also realize that the geni is out of the bottle. NA oil development may be dealt a set back, but as soon as the prices start to go up so will development. Besides the past decade has seen a commodity bubble that has burst. Asia and Europe aren't doing so well and alot of new supply has came online. Prices should go down.
Posted By: rainierrifleco Re: Diesel fuel - 12/17/14
It is exactly a dollar higher than gas here in Wyoming.
Posted By: Moby1 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by Partsman
I run gas, it was $1.069 CDN per litre at costco


Fixed it for you.
Posted By: Steve Re: Diesel fuel - 12/18/14
Drove past my local Fred Meyer on my way to Scappoose the other day. Notice it's $2.999 for diesel.

Drive the 19 or so miles and drive past the Fred Meyer there. It's $2.299. Same chain, less than 20 miles away, 70 cents difference. It was 10 cents cheaper than regular and another station in Scappoose had it for the 2.229 as well, so it wasn't just a fluke.

Something's not right...
Posted By: Auger01 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/18/14
In case you missed it on CNN, OPEC is flooding the market in order to kill all the US shale oil competition.
Posted By: Dillonbuck Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
Let me try this...when I spend more to fill my tank I have less to spend at another business. That other business then loses income. Or the mortgage payment. When a farmer pays more to fill his tank, he has less to spend. When the trucking company..... And when all those have to raise their prices I pay more for necessities. When I pay more for necessities...
Posted By: SamOlson Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
I was wondering this the other day......


Why is off road(#2 red dye diesel) more money per gallon than standard gasoline?


Gas was $.30 or .50 more, can't remember.


I thought that diesel was cheaper to refine but evidentially not?

Bunch of tax on the dyed fuel?
Posted By: BigDave39355 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
$3.06 today in central MS, gas $2.17
Posted By: NathanL Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
Originally Posted by SamOlson
I was wondering this the other day......


Why is off road(#2 red dye diesel) more money per gallon than standard gasoline?


Gas was $.30 or .50 more, can't remember.


I thought that diesel was cheaper to refine but evidentially not?

Bunch of tax on the dyed fuel?


Ultra low sulphur diesel is more expensive than old diesel for a number of reasons.

1. The process for ULSD cost approximately $3billion for a large refinery like the Exxon refinery in Baton Rouge to put into place.

2. Running diesel now thru the ULSD process after the cracker adds to the time it takes. Diesel used to be cheaper because it was quicker and required less energy to crack than the finer stuff like gasoline etc....

It adds up.
Posted By: NathanL Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
Originally Posted by BigDave39355
$3.06 today in central MS, gas $2.17


Hattiesburg was $1.96 for gas and $280 for diesel today.
Posted By: Dillonbuck Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14

wholesale price for distillates is higher than gas. Red NRLM fuel here in Pa is LSD not Ultra Low. However LSD is still sulphur reduced. Do not understand exactly how it works, but the story is diesel is a global commodity and gas not so much.
Posted By: SamOlson Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
Oh okay, thanks for the good explanation.
Posted By: Steve Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
Originally Posted by Auger01
In case you missed it on CNN, OPEC is flooding the market in order to kill all the US shale oil competition.


<sarcasm> Really? Huh. </sarcasm>
Posted By: Seafire Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
Diesel was $2.69 here in town today... but there was also another station I saw pumping it $3.80 a gallon also...

There are a lot of station owners and distributors that are raking in the cash right now...by overcharging for fuel, especially Diesel...

there is more variation here in the Rogue Valley on Diesel than there is Gasoline...
Posted By: Crow hunter Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
Originally Posted by NathanL

Ultra low sulphur diesel is more expensive than old diesel for a number of reasons.

1. The process for ULSD cost approximately $3billion for a large refinery like the Exxon refinery in Baton Rouge to put into place.

2. Running diesel now thru the ULSD process after the cracker adds to the time it takes. Diesel used to be cheaper because it was quicker and required less energy to crack than the finer stuff like gasoline etc....

It adds up.


All that's true but none of it has anything to do with the price of diesel. Diesel is more expensive than gas because a good portion of diesel refined here is exported to Europe where it can be sold for $8-12 a gallon instead of $3.50 here. Less diesel here equals higher pump prices. The cost of oil and refining it doesn't set the pump price, it's what the market will bear.
Posted By: Dillonbuck Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
Thanks, knew it had to something to do with foreign markets but wasn't sure how it worked.
Posted By: Pat85 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
Originally Posted by SamOlson
I was wondering this the other day......


Why is off road(#2 red dye diesel) more money per gallon than standard gasoline?


Gas was $.30 or .50 more, can't remember.


I thought that diesel was cheaper to refine but evidentially not?

Bunch of tax on the dyed fuel?



Off road is $2.50 a gallon, on road is $3.25, heating oil is $2.42 and gas is $2.75 in these parts at the moment. Done trying to figure out how they price it, just thankful it cost me $550 less to fill my tank over last year at this time.
Posted By: Mac84 Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
3.69 in these parts
Posted By: jeffdwhite Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
$2.94 here yesterday...
Stayed stuck at $3.69 forever
Posted By: Tracks Re: Diesel fuel - 12/19/14
Noticed prices at a local station today
Unleaded Regular $2.39
Diesel $3.39.
Glad to see prices going down, but a buck a gallon difference?
I know all the excuses but it just ain't right.
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