So I'm thinking about acquiring a couple cows or calves this spring. My thought is to rotate cows through so as to butcher one every fall.

There is a couple acres of bottom land that has a small creek. It's had a half dozen goats in it that can't even begin to keep up with the grass. I also have access to large quantities of spent barley. I figure I can split the pasture into two paddocks and rotate them through and seed if needed. We get about 40" of rain a year and very mild winters.

Anybody with experience? What kinda cows? Noxious weeds I need to look out for?
How big of a hat do I need?

LOL, get a 250/300 weight brahman steer or heifer, they are the leanest for eating and not picky about what they eat either, hell, they may feed right alongside your goats on the cleanup detail.

How many acres total do you have access to?

A cow eats more than you think, and when you run out of grass, you are out of the cow business. Plan accordingly. Don't get overly ambitious.

Brahma! Those them big sumbitches with the hump? Good eating and hearty?

How old of one should I get? Assuming I can find one out here.

That'd rate a 10 gallon hat! Maybe spurs!

RB- it's just about two acres.

As for feed, I can get thousands of pounds of spent barley a week for free if they are wiping out the pasture.

Get a 250/300 weight calf, you should be able to have it to 8/900 lbs in a year, perfect eating size, and hell yes, very lean cattle for eating, lmfao on the hat, a cap will do, big hats just get blown off yer head and you'll bust your ass in the vines chasing the hat in spurs.

I feed barley sprouts and wheat mids, keep out some mineral and hay/alfalfa, hit em with a good pour on wormer, a couple bolaces shot down their throat and your GTG.

Keep a syringe and a bottle of micotil handy in case they get some sort of respiratory illness/virus, flu/dust pneumonia etc.

10-4 on the hat and spurs. I'll keep a lower profile.

What's a good way to go about acquiring a calf or two? Auction? My non-farming dumbazz has been looking on Craigslist. Not much there.

Thanks G!

It sounds like a good idea, especially since you have access to free feed.

Just be aware that with 2 acres, all the green stuff will be gone shortly, and you will be left with a 2 acre "pen", that requires you feed them every bite that they take, and gets muddy and schidtty when it rains.

Putting 2 of them on 2 acres is overgrazing it. Even one is pushing it.

I hear if you can't find a heifer on craigslist you just ain't looking. I also hear you can't feed them 'uns grass and get away with it for long. I also hear that if you're going to mess with those heifers you might oughta have some penicillin. handy too

Rockinbbar has it right. The two acres of grass will be gone quickly. I tried raising a bunch of angus cows and my grass ran short so had to buy hay. I had to sell them, as I couldn't keep up with their appetites. I did get some very nice calves though.

Once that grass is gone, and the ground is bare, it ain't coming back anytime soon...

All kinds of noxious weeds will sprout though.

I thought those were cow or pigs. Just hope you don't end up with a steer(queer).

RB- I was thinking two might be a bit much. Maybe start with one and see how it goes is a better plan. I have no idea of the nutrional content of spent grain if it comes down to feeding them on it 100%. I think I'll try and give WSU a call.


Miles- Laffin'! Lots of that "breed" available.

Make sure you get a 'hard mouth' calf...

If you dont, you will the next time.

In our neck of the woods, you can run a cow and calf per acre on improved pasture.

Dont forget a bull, if your going to raise your own calves from your cows, and he's gotta eat, too.

Dont get a brahma, get a black angus, grass feed it until about 2 weeks before your ready to butcher it. Then put it up and grain feed + good hay for 2 weeks. Pasture fed it will be ok--- grain fed for 2 weeks will bring out the marbling--- grain fed longer will make for lots of fat.

Good luck!

your not out anything trying one or two....whats your absolute worst case? your just butchering earlier than ideal and have less than preferred carcass weight but since its for your freezer who cares.....

I agree with the others that 2 acres of grass won't last long, Especially this time of year.

You might have better luck in the spring when the grass is growing fast and it might be able to keep up with the grazing.

As far as goats and grass go, Grass is the last thing that every goat I've had on the place will eat. They've really preferred brushy stuff, Which is great since that's the only reason I tolerate the fence ridin' bastids anyway.

I'm goat free right now and don't expect to ever suffer another one to set hoof here no matter what the wife and grand kids say.

Rattler- that's about what I figure. I'd just not want to turn the little pasture into a mud and chit pit.

Ill go check these guys out. Ain't to far.
http://www.clmauctions.com/livestock_auctions.shtml

The auction pic showed a lot of old culled dairy cows. You dont want one of those!

You dont know what the word 'tough' means, until you bite into one of those old things.

Find a dairy close by and buy a couple day-old calves. Feed 'em milk supplement until they are eating good.

When they get ready, sell one and butcher one. You'll recover ALL your expenses that way.

Wait until late spring/early summer, when the grass is in good shape and buy a couple steers or heifers in the 4-600 lb range. If your 2 acres can handle them all summer, sell one in late August for profit and use your free barley to grain the other in preparation for butcher a month or so later.

If you check around, you might be able to sell the one intended for profit to someone else wanting a butcher animal. That way you could keep both together until butcher time.

I'd get a known docile breed for raising in a small pasture. Try to buy both animals from one source that has them vaccinated and ready for turn out on summer pasture.

I'd stay clear of a cow/calf situation for what you want to do mostly because your acreage can't handle grazers year-round.

Two acres is not enough even with 40 inches. You have to be able to rotate and rest, and even then, you need to FEED. That means tractor, hay bale trailer, or pay through the nose to have it delivered.
Best case is you buy one or maybe two spring feeder calves, put them on the grass until it's gone, then slaughter. Even so, that's not so great.
Find someone with some goats who can bring them in, let them mow, then take them away.

The old, "The smaller the herd, the bigger the hat", comes to mind.

Sam Olson might come along after chores, but I'll recommend, unless you want a PHD from the school of hard knocks, you leave the cow punching to the pros.

It's actually the cattle that do the punching!

Get a weaned calf. Plan on penning it up regularly so that it doesn't ruin your pasture (when it's muddy, when it's too dry, when it's been grazed down, etc). When raising cattle, you're really trying to "raise grass" perpetually; the cattle are an extra.

Lots of soils in Wetter Washington are glacial silt, low in nutrient content and the grass makes mediocre forage. I don't raise beef anymore but got away with two on three and one-half acres. About two acres was improved pasture that had been tilled, fertilized and seeded with good grass. I'd start with one animal and plan on supplementing the feed. It might go better and you can try two the second year.

Some critters just don't take to a small pasture. Had one angus that would break fences regularly and mostly go under the wires. Most I raised were herefords or hereford crosses.

Good luck with your beef project. It is mostly rather fun but there are times like riding the handlebars of my neighbor's half ton steer down a busy road that I'd rather forget.

This will start a fight but Hereford would be better for a new guy. Angus have a rep. for being a little ornery and testing fences. Herefords are more calm. However they seem smarter and a little more stubborn. They learn from bad experiences and will avoid a repeat, ie. getting vet work in a headgate. Wont go back in very easy.

I'll be damned, I'm in full agreement with one of curdog's posts! Done it this way myself. Anybody says a holstein isn't good eating never ate one I fed out. Cheap as hell to buy (dairy has very little use for a bull calf), band the nuts, feed it milk replacement till it's old enough to wean off, then turn them loose on the grass. Up to you how you want it to taste, but the last couple weeks of life I fed em out on whatever grain leavings I could get cheap off the neighbors. Trick is though selling the other steer. Lots of folks turn their noses up at a dairy breed for meat. Last one I did I fed out a holstein steer, and sold the red angus I had to keep him company and actually made money on the deal.

Unless you've got some really schitty luck, doing a couple steers isn't hard. Just make sure your fence is good, and don't make them TOO freindly, a big phoucing steer bounding across the pasture to come play isn't as cute as it is when their little. Sounds simple i know, but trust me.

Several years ago, when cattle were dirt cheap, one of the dairy farmers at Windthorst,Tx put a portable pen right on U S 287. He put 5 day old bull calves in it and a big sign that said FREE.

Next morning he had 7 calves in the pen!

Around here people are getting north of $500 for a decent Holstein bull calf. Which still might be the cheapest option.

The only thing I'll add is chitty feed equals a chitty animal. Feed it the best you can and you'll be rewarded at the table.

Damn, I paid $80 apiece for the last ones I bought.

I would go with a couple few sheep, and buy a 1/2 beef every year.

I heard the Midwest feedyards are buying them up. I guess with cattle numbers so low they started buying dairy steers to fill space and keep them going.

week old dairy steers are hitting $400 each here. I paid $90 each for 2 week old Jersey steers 18 months ago. Agree on getting a couple of dairy steers if you are feeding out to eat. They grow slower and the yield will be less but they are great eating. With only 2 acres you will need a good source for hay as well as the grain. By the way all steers can get frisky so if you get some work with them daily and make sure to watch your back when they get big enough to hurt you. The last ones I had I did not dehorn and one of them got pretty bullish and hooked me a couple of times. Dehorn and castrate them early. By the way his heart is in the soup pot tonight.

Oh yeah, forgot about the dehorning powder.

Thanks for all the info fellas!

I'm going to hit a couple auctions and see what's what. If I can get a youngin' around Feb / March, we'll see what it does by end of October. Maybe it'll be worth it.....maybe not.

As much grass that grows in that spot, I can't imagine one cow will starve on it, but I'll find out.

Any of you guys ever feed spent grain from a brewery?

Makes great bait for hog traps.

lmaorotf!!!!!!!
right now is a poor time to get into meat cattle. prices for cow/calf pairs are making me sorry I sold out last summer!
the best bet if the idea is meat for your self is the dairy calf.
get one straight from a dairy though or be prepared to lose a few auction calves to scours.

I don't know what's important for a cow but reminder - that spend grain will have all the sugars boiled out of it. That's what makes wort - or the precurser to beer.

I'd be surprised if there's much nutritional value left after it goes through the process.

Not all the sugar is washed out. A good bit remains, as well as protein, nitrogen, etc.....

My current farmer raises pigs, but he may have info on feeding it to beef. I'll have to ask him.

Gunner, find out where he's located. Those brahmas just don't do well where it's real cold for extended periods of time, even the crosses. I know you have snow in OK but you have hot summers.

I was raised in the cattle business here in LA, grew the business to a sizable operation and after many years raising cattle, sold out as I got older.

I raised Brahman, Brangus, Brafords, commercial crosses, Charolais or Angus on F1 cows. We sold steers and heifers on the satellite, weighed on site with certified scales, hauled in 18 wheelers to feedlots in the Midwest.

Back in the day, I sent Brahman bulls to a well known WA State Hereford breeder to raise some Brafords. He tried to take care of those bulls but some froze to death. They couldn't tolerate the cold. Those big ears and loose hides dissipate heat, not good where it's cold for a long time.

DF

BTW- you're not boiling your mash are you?

No sugar remains when I do it!

No - bad choice of words on my part but a good chunk of the sugars are removed in my beers as I tend to start my OG high and then let that yeast work hard for a higher ABV than most.

I'm west WA and maybe 50' ASL. It doesn't get cold. Maybe a weeks worth of freezing temps all winter. Maybe.....

Lots of Highland cows around, but mostly east of here in the mountains.

I would not buy a calf at an auction, find a dairy. Make certain the calves have had colostrum from their mothers(nurse for a week)and get non soy milk replacer to bottle feed. Just because you have a lot of grass doesn't mean its good grass. Grass gets woody and sour as well and they won't eat it. Need to make certain the can stay dry and out of the wind as well. Remember to keep plenty of clean water available You can feed distillers grains but I do not know how much as I don't

Thanks! Deerstalker said the same.

I'll call some dairies, there are plenty around here, and see what they are getting.

BTDT GOOD LUCK

Hard to believe that it used to cost more to take a dairy bull calf to auction than he would bring.

Are there evergreens in the area? If so, do a a good search for any members of the yew family. They eat it readily and it's deadly. Deer eat it, too, and thrive on it. They're immune.

A friend trimmed some yews in his dad's yard and piled the limbs in his pasture to burn later. It killed his 2 ready-to-butcher steers.

When I was a kid in the 60s and 70s, the dairies would give us the bull calves or charge 5 bucks. I haven't raised a calf in many years, the horses keep the pasture grass down at dad's, I'd have to bottle then hay feed them.

If I had real pasture and grass I'd probably do it for old times sake.

Kent

My neighbor is a dairy farmer. He feeds a lot of the left over grains from the local ethanol plant, but he mixes it with silage, snappalage and god only knows what else.
He used to get stuff from a brewery over around Columbus, Oh. but the ethanol plant is about 80 miles closer. I cant remember for sure but I think he pays about $40 per ton, he hauls about 13 ton at a time in his old Mack dump truck. I do know that the cows like it as anytime they can get out you will always find them in the pit he keeps it in.

You cannot feed spent grain as a sole diet to a calf. You will have to provide forage (hay) if your grass runs short. Another option might be alfalfa cubes or pellets. They're available in some areas and are a simple way to feed forage. You start getting into hay handling and you end up needing more equipment unless you use idiot cubes.

I would look for a dairy calf but a warning, milk replacer is EXPENSIVE. I would cruise craigslist and contact the local dairies direct as well. If you can get a little older calf, you're better off (less expensive milk replacer and closer to weaning).

Yes. Two acres does not a rancher make. It will be a fine lot if one has some other source of free feed he can toss out every day. Even then, those two acres will be stripped down to bare soil.

One could maybe run a critter off of two acres if he could lot it elsewhere and harvest a couple cuttings of hay from his acerage. Figure they will consume 3% (dry weight of feed) of their weight on a daily basis. So a 500 pounder gets 15 lbs of dry hay on a daily basis, and that's assuming they will consume it all, which they won't because there are the refusal portions.

Hit up a local beef/dairy extension agent for advice on alternative feeds like brewery or cannery waste.

Everybody oughta get into the cow business at least once in their life.

Hope you're thinking about a few extra things other than what color calves and how many acres you have available.

How you gonna haul them around? How you gonna catch em up to haul them around? How you gonna doctor them if'n the need arises? You have open water year around? Hay once your grass shuts down for the winter? You have a way to haul hay and other feed?

If you're gonna feed one, feed two, they'll just do much better than one. You should be able to sell halves or quarters of what you don't want to friends, family, or neighbors. I don't have any experience in just grass feeding calves to fats, but I do feed some every year on a high corn/protein diet. My calves will usually have an average gain of 3-3.5 pounds/day. I'd just guess that a straight grass diet would be half that at best. I've no idea what the barley would do, but it should bump you up to a pretty good rate of grain if you feed it right. When mine are on full feed they're eating about 24 pounds of grain and pretty much all the hay they want.

A good pasture fertilizer will add about 50% more grass, it's worth it if you have some way of applying it.

Look at the initial cost of buying a 5-7 weight steer, look at the value of a fat. Try to estimate your costs in between, not gonna be a lot of wiggle room there.

Initially, it certainly would be cheaper to go with a black and white calf. But when you have a 1000 pound holstein standing out in your pasture you probably have about 800 pounds of bones, hide, guts, and head. There's a reason them critters are cheaper.

Don't get too big a hat, and hold off on the spurs, probably just trip you up and scuff up the wife's hardwood floors.

Yep!




MM, I will say what everyone else has already mentioned. Unless you are willing to see the 2 acres get tromped all to hell I would pass on sticking any cattle on it.

As for distillers grain, 20 years ago my dad used to get rail cars full of the stuff. All I remember is that it smelled pretty good. He'd dump some in with the chopped hay in a mixer wagon and feed it to calves all Winter in our little feedlot.

Pellets will double your hay costs. Around here, hay is going for about $200/ton now. Pellets are $400 or more.

From time to time i and a bud get a steer to eat.
I raise alfalfa and haygrasier .
They get turned loose on 3 acres of Kline grass pasture,have all of the fresh water they want.
When it gets close to the cutting time he gets a number 10 can of cracked corn in the morn. and eve.

Don't get that much rain here bit i have laid pipe and watered it a few times.

Had 16 pairs on this same block till fall and they could not keep with the grass.

Give it a try.
Make sure you have a catch pen handy and it helps to get them used to feed in a bucket,in case they get out.

everyone needs to try it once.

Don't let your kids give them names.

My kids are part of our calves lives from birth to the dinner table and all parts in between. When they were younger they did name most and never had a problem when it came time to take em to the locker or slap em on the grill.

All part of life here.

My daughter named the last one Magellan,because he likes to go places and see new things.

He does taste good!

Bacykard beef on a couple acres sounds so bucolic. I suggest backyard chickens.

Unless they are being raised on a farm.

Several years ago, were invited to eat with the neighbors and they said they would grill steaks. Now these neighbors had a cow/calf operation and 2 elementary age girls that would bottle raise the calves, if it was needed. Of course, every calf that was bottle raised had a name.

Knowing that we were eating steaks, I asked in front of the 2 girls, which calf we were eating. I fully expected to get a blank stare, but instead...

The smallest girl, 1st or 2nd grade, answered real quick, "We're having some of Tammy, today".

To say I was surprised by her answer, was an understatement. So I asked how she knew and the answer was, "Cause its written on the package".

Thinking fast, I said to prove it, and she went to the garbage can and dug out the wrappers. Each was labeled with the cut of meat and the name "Tammy"!

Her dad explained the girls insisted the calf's name be on every package!

my daughters named the last 2 Ham and Burger, another was Sir Loin. Doesn't bother them a bit when we send them to freezer camp

You don't find many animal rights types among farm kids. They know where the groceries come from.

You could get one of these, and he could double as a guard for the ranch...

My kids must lack imagination. Most our calves get named Blacky, Red, and Bob.

2014 Blacky.



and Bob.

Yes, but it is an efficient way to "handle" hay. It is also has a higher nutritive value than long stem hay and far less waste.

I threw that out there to show the OP some options he might not otherwise be aware of.

Muleshoe, that is a nice dry place to be born, sure beats a cold snow bank!

Every year we lose a calf or two because the sack doesn't get off the nose soon enough. Usually in heifers having their first calf, slower births and slower to get up and lick the calf's face.

You fellows are making the cattle racket sound so easy, maybe Sam, and I should throw together, and start up in business rakin' in the easy money!

Oh, wait!

Richard, that is an idea!

It was hay yard tractor work this afternoon. Which was nice because it was about 2F outside, I had to turn down the heater....grin


Set down a bunch of bales for the pickup and about 3:30 the hay chopper showed up so we dumped bales in the chopper until about an hour past dark.

The guy running the chopper is almost too busy. After he left our place he had to go fill back up with diesel and head to another place to chop for a couple hours. He's probably still going right now.



No breakdowns and got a bunch of chit done so it was a pretty good day.


Couple days ago down by the calves.



Some of the bred heifers.

Nice pictures Sam.
I get the shivers thinking calving of all those heifers.
I hope you, and your father know your calving ease bulls, as
you must.

Ever hear that more cattle bums are hurt by cows, than bulls?

Sam, you guys out west have it made!! Let's see you will be out every day from about now for the next month or 2 finding the heifers dropping their calves over God only knows how many square miles, then things get easy and you sashay up to the branding and all the partying that goes on there, then you have to go driving around just mowing the hay with all them fancy machines Boy you got it made. Makes me jealous

Richard, I would bet that more people get hurt by cows.

Calving is always an interesting time!

Sam, most, if not all of that easy money gets away paying the bank SOME on the note!

We need to form a corporation, plenty of investors hereabouts.

Got a catchy name for our firm?

Blanket, calving date is around the middle of March-May. Couple more months to wait.

They need to be fed everyday from now until then which is the chitty part. That and you spend all Summer raising things for them to eat all Winter...grin

Its a never ending cycle, but what would you rather be doing

Richard, Dry Cow Ranch, DCR for short.

Ben, sometimes, wearing warmer boots, and that frizzen waterer thawing faster.

Grocery Farmed Yaks, you could create a niche market! I can see the brand now, GFY.

That could work

I am on our son's computer, otherwise I could pull up some pictures of our modest products from photobucket.

Yak, or not, those look good, what time do we eat?

I'm all for no mud in the spring and fewer rain showers in the summer... Grin

Here's some hard numbers for forage needs and production. I'm using Pa. figures, contact either your local NRCS office and ask for the grazing specialist or contact the Cooperative Extension Office, they'll have some one on staff with better numbers for your area.

With an average weight of 750 lb (500-1000 lb) and needing 2.5% of their body weight in dry matter (DM), a beef animal will need 18.75 lbs DM per day. 180 day grazing season means 3375 lb DM for the season. Rotating them into small paddocks every day or so allows a 75% utilization rate, you will need 4500 lb of dry matter to feed one criitter for the grazing season. If you just put them on an acre for the summer and continuous graze it, utilization is 35% and you need over 9600 lbs.

4500 may be doable, 9600 ain't. That's for one animal. Feeding grain each day will cut the 18.75 lb needed from pasture but how much will depend on the water content of the brewers grain.

You'll need good fence, both perimeter and some sort of interior divider fence to mark off small paddocks that hold one or two days worth of grazing. A water tub that can be moved around, it does no good to have interior fences if you have to leave them open so they can get to one water source.

Somebody mentioned Micotil, good stuff but not for novices! It'll kill you if you accidentally inject yourself. Ask your vet for something else.

Dairy beef was also mentioned, there's an old joke here in Pa. How do you get a Holstein steer to grade Choice? Cross it with a corn crib.

Again, I strongly urge you to contact NRCS (Natural Resources Conservation Service) or Extension, they'll have info on soil types, production capabilities, soil test info, fertilizer recommendations, paddock size, watering etc.

I work for NRCS, contact me if you have trouble finding your local office.

Dale

I have worked thousands of Holsteins through the lot and on the rail. Grading choice is not generally a problem. Now doing that while having an adequate ribeye while not being too big so as not to be docked too far below native beef prices is the real problem.

We raise a few beef catlle on 117 acres. Most all are various crosses withe majority having from 1/8 to 5/8 Brahman. The reason for the Brahman influence is that they can stand the summer heat and insects in Louisiana. This calf crop coming off now is Black Angus or Charolais sired. Our most efficent cows believe it or not are 2 Brahman/Texas Longhorn cross. They are tough, not to big, good mothers, and spit out a calf at about 11 month intervals. You can raise cattle big as elephants, but they eat like elephants,and break down at an early age. These little cows raise a decent calf that favors his sire and sells well. As a side note, I once visited a Kansas feedlot that was feeding out Holstein steers. The owner told me they grade 90% choice, just don't convert feed efficiently, therefore they are bought at discount to make up the difference.

find a local dairy that has bull calves they want rid of. pick up 4 or 5. bottle feed them til they get on solid food. graze them til fall, sell half of them. keep 1 or 2 to finish next year. rinse and repeat.

it would be the cheapest way IMO, that's what I would do. make sure you castrate em before they get too big

Check out the price of milk replacer.
That last calf we had to bucket feed went through over two hundred dollars of replacer.

Pay attention to what was said re: Micotil - I know vets who won't prescribe it because people have accidentally self-injected, fatally.
I personally should never get blackleg or bovine pink-eye, due to accidental self-injection.