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Doesn't sound like negligence, but that doesn't make it any easier to accept:

SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) � Concealed weapons are part of everyday life in Idaho, and that�s unlikely to change in the Mountain West state despite a shocking accident in which a 2-year-old boy reached into his mother�s purse, got ahold of her gun and shot her in the head inside a Wal-Mart.

Veronica J. Rutledge, 29, was shopping Tuesday with her son and three nieces in Hayden, Idaho, when the small-caliber handgun discharged one time, killing her. Terry Rutledge, Veronica�s father-in-law, told The Spokesman-Review that the boy unzipped the special gun compartment in the woman�s purse where the weapon was kept while she was looking at clothing.

Victoria Rutledge had a concealed weapons permit, and guns were a big part of her life, Terry Rutledge said.

�She was not the least bit irresponsible,� Terry Rutledge said in a brief interview with The Associated Press.

Meanwhile, the Kootenai County Sheriff�s Office on Wednesday afternoon released a few more details about the incident. The boy removed the 9mm semi-automatic handgun from his mother�s purse and shot her once in the head, killing her instantly, the sheriff�s office said.

The manager of the store stepped in and took the firearm from the child, the sheriff�s office said. The manager and employees secured the scene and evacuated customers.

The woman�s purse was a Christmas gift from her husband and was designed to carry a concealed firearm, the sheriff�s office said. Detectives continue to analyze video from the store, examine the weapon and interview witnesses, the sheriff�s office added.

Terry Rutledge told The Washington Post that Veronica Rutledge and her husband practiced at shooting ranges and each had a concealed weapons permit.

About 7 percent of adults in Idaho had concealed weapons permits at the end of 2012, according to the Crime Prevention Research Center in Swarthmore, Pennsylvania. That ranked Idaho among the top third of states.

Veronica Rutledge lived in Blackfoot, in southeastern Idaho, and her family had come to the Hayden area, 40 miles northeast of Spokane, to visit relatives for Christmas. She was an employee of the Idaho National Laboratory near Idaho Falls where she was a nuclear scientist. The laboratory supports the U.S. Department of Energy in nuclear and energy research and national defense.

�We�re deeply saddened by this tragedy,� said Nicole Stricker, a spokeswoman for the lab.

Colt Rutledge, 32, arrived at the store in Idaho�s panhandle shortly after the shooting Tuesday morning, Kootenai County sheriff�s spokesman Stu Miller said Wednesday. Their children were taken to a relative�s house. Officers viewed surveillance video from the store to determine what happened, Miller said.
Very sad. I wouldn't say she wasn't irresponsible. Unfortunately she and everyone with her failed to closely watch a 2 year old. On top of that they put the 2 year old in contact with a loaded pistol.

This is something they would never have done if they had stopped and thought about it. So sad that it only took a few minuets irresponsibility to cause such a horrible accident.
Bottom line is that when a small child gets access to a loaded firearm, someone was negligent. It's a complete tragedy and I can see where the Mom assumed the CCW was secure. I'm sure she never in her wildest nightmares ever thought her child would go into her CCW-designed purse, unzip the pocket and pull out the gun. She was experienced and trained often. She took care to buy a special purse.

All that being said, I've never liked women carrying a CCW in a purse. Keep it on your body. A mugger will grab your purse and that is often the target of a bad guy. The result is not only a stolen purse, but if it is a violent attack, they prevent the CCH from having immediate access to their personal defense weapon. Keep it on your body.
My thoughts and prayers go out to her son and what effects this tragedy may have on him as he grows and matures.
Originally Posted by 284LUVR
My thoughts and prayers go out to her son and what effects this tragedy may have on him as he grows and matures.


That fellow is going to need the grace of God to untie the knots in his head as he grows older. Very very sad beyond words.
Ah yes ,hindsight is so much better.It was an ACCIDENT.A tragic one and there is no need to point fingers.
It was her fault. No question. She left the purse with a weapon in it within reach of her two year old. Then didn't pay enough attention to either the kid or the weapon and got shot for it.

If you're gonna carry, it comes with responsibilities.

It's sad, and my heart goes out to the family. But it was 100% preventable and negligent.
An accident is ALWAYS someones fault, I sure ain't going to lay the blame on a 2 year old.

Tragic for sure, the kid is going to have a tough time of it when he's older.
Very tragic event! While few accidents are totally avoidable, I have (for years) advocated a handgun that a small child may access always have a multiple safety system. A good example being a Springfield XD series. Small hands can't manipulate both the grip and trigger safeties. If the child is big enough to do so, that child should have been "properly" trained by that age! memtb
I do not advocate carrying a weapon in any manner unattached to the body, ever.
Originally Posted by mudhen
Doesn't sound like negligence, but that doesn't make it any easier to accept:

SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) � Concealed weapons are part of everyday life in Idaho, and that�s unlikely to change in the Mountain West state despite a shocking accident in which a 2-year-old boy reached into his mother�s purse, got ahold of her gun and shot her in the head inside a Wal-Mart.

Veronica J. Rutledge, 29, was shopping Tuesday with her son and three nieces in Hayden, Idaho, when the small-caliber handgun discharged one time, killing her. Terry Rutledge, Veronica�s father-in-law, told The Spokesman-Review that the boy unzipped the special gun compartment in the woman�s purse where the weapon was kept while she was looking at clothing.

Victoria Rutledge had a concealed weapons permit, and guns were a big part of her life, Terry Rutledge said.

�She was not the least bit irresponsible,� Terry Rutledge said in a brief interview with The Associated Press.

Meanwhile, the Kootenai County Sheriff�s Office on Wednesday afternoon released a few more details about the incident. The boy removed the 9mm semi-automatic handgun from his mother�s purse and shot her once in the head, killing her instantly, the sheriff�s office said.

The manager of the store stepped in and took the firearm from the child, the sheriff�s office said. The manager and employees secured the scene and evacuated customers.

The woman�s purse was a Christmas gift from her husband and was designed to carry a concealed firearm, the sheriff�s office said. Detectives continue to analyze video from the store, examine the weapon and interview witnesses, the sheriff�s office added.

Terry Rutledge told The Washington Post that Veronica Rutledge and her husband practiced at shooting ranges and each had a concealed weapons permit.

About 7 percent of adults in Idaho had concealed weapons permits at the end of 2012, according to the Crime Prevention Research Center in Swarthmore, Pennsylvania. That ranked Idaho among the top third of states.

Veronica Rutledge lived in Blackfoot, in southeastern Idaho, and her family had come to the Hayden area, 40 miles northeast of Spokane, to visit relatives for Christmas. She was an employee of the Idaho National Laboratory near Idaho Falls where she was a nuclear scientist. The laboratory supports the U.S. Department of Energy in nuclear and energy research and national defense.

�We�re deeply saddened by this tragedy,� said Nicole Stricker, a spokeswoman for the lab.

Colt Rutledge, 32, arrived at the store in Idaho�s panhandle shortly after the shooting Tuesday morning, Kootenai County sheriff�s spokesman Stu Miller said Wednesday. Their children were taken to a relative�s house. Officers viewed surveillance video from the store to determine what happened, Miller said.


She was very irresponsible and sadly paid the price..
Fanny packs, unlike purses, just telegraph to the bad guy(s), "Shoot me first".
Indeed a tragic accident. Irresponsible? Not being privy to the absolute details, I'll not make judgment. Near all of us though can prevent accidents with 20/20 hindsight.
Originally Posted by 1minute
Indeed a tragic accident. Irresponsible? Not being privy to the absolute details, I'll not make judgment. Near all of us though can prevent accidents with 20/20 hindsight.


Damn irresponsible. No way around that fact. No excuse..
Originally Posted by 1minute
Indeed a tragic accident. Irresponsible? Not being privy to the absolute details, I'll not make judgment. Near all of us though can prevent accidents with 20/20 hindsight.


^^^^
This,

It's amazing there are so many prefect people here at the fire.
Originally Posted by Huntz
Ah yes ,hindsight is so much better.It was an ACCIDENT.A tragic one and there is no need to point fingers.

Insomuch as there is an opportunity to learn from someone else's tragic mistakes and prevent a repeat, there is always a need to "point fingers".
Unfortunately, the poor women made a tragic mistake and payed dearly with her life.
Hopefully, other parents with small children can learn from her mistake.
NEVER leave a child un-attended with in reach of a loaded gun. Period.

Prayers for her child and family. May the Good Lord comfort & heal them!
No matter how safe people are chit happens in this world , nothing is 100% regardless of what you do when children are involved.
Originally Posted by 1minute
Indeed a tragic accident. Irresponsible? Not being privy to the absolute details, I'll not make judgment. Near all of us though can prevent accidents with 20/20 hindsight.

Now many more details do you need to know she left the purse and the child together unattended?
Originally Posted by bea175
No matter how safe people are chit happens in this world , nothing is 100% regardless of what you do when children are involved.


Agreed. My post was not mean't to criticize the poor woman at all. We all make mistakes, and it could happen to any of us with only a moments lapse in judgement or distraction.

My point was that I hope this tragedy would make parents who have small children to be ever vigilant when carrying a concealed weapon.

Also, the incident also gives the Anti-Gun Crowd just the kind of publicity they want to use to take away our 2nd Amendment rights!
Unfortantley, they will use this tragedy to continue to lay the blame on the "bad" handgun and CHL holders everywhere.
A sensible quote, "Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool." To paraphrase, "Nothing is childproof for a sufficiently talented child." I state with confidence there are other 2 year olds out there with the talent required to fire a striker actuated pistol with no additional manual safety. I have to wonder if the child didn't see Mom practicing with the access window of the handbag and simply immulated. All in all a sad event. The take away, children cannot be left within reach of a firearm whether or not secured. Sad, sad, sad.
Originally Posted by shootem
A sensible quote, "Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool." To paraphrase, "Nothing is childproof for a sufficiently talented child." I state with confidence there are other 2 year olds out there with the talent required to fire a striker actuated pistol with no additional manual safety. I have to wonder if the child didn't see Mom practicing with the access window of the handbag and simply immulated. All in all a sad event. The take away, children cannot be left within reach of a firearm whether or not secured. Sad, sad, sad.


Good points, but don't kid yourself - that same talented child can defeat a manual safety too.

Guys - it may seem crass to discuss this, but one should never pass up a chance to learn or to teach from others' mistakes.
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Originally Posted by shootem
A sensible quote, "Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool." To paraphrase, "Nothing is childproof for a sufficiently talented child." I state with confidence there are other 2 year olds out there with the talent required to fire a striker actuated pistol with no additional manual safety. I have to wonder if the child didn't see Mom practicing with the access window of the handbag and simply immulated. All in all a sad event. The take away, children cannot be left within reach of a firearm whether or not secured. Sad, sad, sad.


Good points, but don't kid yourself - that same talented child can defeat a manual safety too.

Guys - it may seem crass to discuss this, but one should never pass up a chance to learn or to teach from others' mistakes.


You are correct.

I'd like to move to a more basic lesson we can take from this event.


She's just gotten the purse. It was brand new to her. She wasn't really familiar with it, and all of it's idiosyncrasy's but decided to carry with it anyway. It takes time to become familiar with new equipment and it's limitations. Perhaps that's better done on the range then the local Walmart.... even if it's just a new holster or other carrying device...
In the spirit of 20/20 hindsight, it might have been instructive to give that (unarmed ) purse to the kid and watch him long enough to see how insecure it really is.
It was a new purse, Christmas shopping with her nieces she doesn't see everyday, lots of distractions, and some two year olds can defeat just about anything.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda, and no one was walking in her shoes yet feel free to defame a young mother intelligent enough to be a nuclear scientist.

Originally Posted by FreeMe
In the spirit of 20/20 hindsight, it might have been instructive to give that (unarmed ) purse to the kid and watch him long enough to see how insecure it really is.


That would be an interesting experiment. Put some candy in it, and let him see you do it, and start the timer. At that age I watched my kids move small tables and stack chairs on them to reach candy on a 8 foot high shelf. It's all too easy to under estimate the capabilities of small kids.
I have watched Raven's unzip day packs to get at the lunch inside.
If it's not on my hip it ain't loaded. The anti's are loving this schitt. Brutal. Horrible...
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by FreeMe
In the spirit of 20/20 hindsight, it might have been instructive to give that (unarmed ) purse to the kid and watch him long enough to see how insecure it really is.


That would be an interesting experiment. Put some candy in it, and let him see you do it, and start the timer. At that age I watched my kids move small tables and stack chairs on them to reach candy on a 8 foot high shelf. It's all too easy to under estimate the capabilities of small kids.


People under estimate the strength of babies and the intelligence of toddlers all the time.
Around here women leave their purses in the shopping carts and walk off all the time to go check out something on a shelve or rack.

I's like to think this accident is a wake up call to all women but I know it isn't.
Originally Posted by 700LH
It was a new purse, Christmas shopping with her nieces she doesn't see everyday, lots of distractions, and some two year olds can defeat just about anything.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda, and no one was walking in her shoes yet feel free to defame a young mother intelligent enough to be a nuclear scientist.



Like many super smart people she lacked common sense.
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by 700LH
It was a new purse, Christmas shopping with her nieces she doesn't see everyday, lots of distractions, and some two year olds can defeat just about anything.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda, and no one was walking in her shoes yet feel free to defame a young mother intelligent enough to be a nuclear scientist.



Like many super smart people she lacked common sense.


Just because she had a momentary lapse of reason, doesn't mean she lacked common sense.

Everyone here has had a momentary lapse of reason. Anyone who claims other wise is a liar. This particular one was ill timed, unfortunate, and tragic. Hopefully we all have the humility to admit we are human and learn from it.
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by 700LH
It was a new purse, Christmas shopping with her nieces she doesn't see everyday, lots of distractions, and some two year olds can defeat just about anything.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda, and no one was walking in her shoes yet feel free to defame a young mother intelligent enough to be a nuclear scientist.



Like many super smart people she lacked common sense.


Just because she had a momentary lapse of reason, doesn't mean she lacked common sense.

Everyone here has had a momentary lapse of reason. Anyone who claims other wise is a liar. This particular one was ill timed, unfortunate, and tragic. Hopefully we all have the humility to admit we are human and learn from it.


I didn't say anything about reason I said common sense.
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by 700LH
It was a new purse, Christmas shopping with her nieces she doesn't see everyday, lots of distractions, and some two year olds can defeat just about anything.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda, and no one was walking in her shoes yet feel free to defame a young mother intelligent enough to be a nuclear scientist.



Like many super smart people she lacked common sense.


Just because she had a momentary lapse of reason, doesn't mean she lacked common sense.

Everyone here has had a momentary lapse of reason. Anyone who claims other wise is a liar. This particular one was ill timed, unfortunate, and tragic. Hopefully we all have the humility to admit we are human and learn from it.


I didn't say anything about reason I said common sense.


So if a person makes one mistake they have no common sense?
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper

Everyone here has had a momentary lapse of reason. Anyone who claims other wise is a liar. This particular one was ill timed, unfortunate, and tragic. Hopefully we all have the humility to admit we are human and learn from it.


AMEN!!! SO Very True!
With an increase of concealed carry will come tens of thousands of crimes that won't be committed and thousands of people who won't be victims.

On the other side of the coin there will be a small increase in negligent and accidental discharges, some of which will kill or maim.

Not knowing what happened, I won't point fingers. Anybody who has ever been around kids knows that you are constantly beset with distractions, and that kids continuously surprise people with what they can get into.

But I do know that pointing fingers is only helping the anti's. They already believe it's worthwhile to ban all guns in order to reduce gun deaths. At a minimum, pointing fingers and calling the victims names like idiot is just going to encourage the anti's to push for more regulations. "Hey, we need to ban CC when a parent has small kids with them!!"

So from me.. Prayers for the family.
Quote
That fellow is going to need the grace of God to untie the knots in his head as he grows older.


It ain't any future guilt I'm so much worried about, how many of us clearly recall the specifics of what we did at age two much less feel guilt.

Right now a little two year-old tyke has suddenly and incomprehensibly lost his mommy, every toddler's worst nightmare, that is what worries me.

Birdwatcher
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Originally Posted by shootem
A sensible quote, "Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool." To paraphrase, "Nothing is childproof for a sufficiently talented child." I state with confidence there are other 2 year olds out there with the talent required to fire a striker actuated pistol with no additional manual safety. I have to wonder if the child didn't see Mom practicing with the access window of the handbag and simply immulated. All in all a sad event. The take away, children cannot be left within reach of a firearm whether or not secured. Sad, sad, sad.


Good points, but don't kid yourself - that same talented child can defeat a manual safety too.

Guys - it may seem crass to discuss this, but one should never pass up a chance to learn or to teach from others' mistakes.
Absolutely agree. Used the handgun description only because that is what was involved. Our little ones are much more adept at problem solving than often given credit for. And they watch us intently. I realize that more and more as I hear the speech and view the actions of my now young adult children. I just pray the knowledge of this tragedy will prevent others.
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper


So if a person makes one mistake they have no common sense?


Not necessarily but in her case a lack of common sense was her one and only fatal mistake.
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper


So if a person makes one mistake they have no common sense?


Not necessarily but in her case a lack of common sense was her one and only fatal mistake.


Again, you are judging her entire life based upon one incident.

I would expect better from a skeptic such as yourself.
if i were to carry not saying if i do or dont my carry would never leave my body not so easy for a woman but i think it is the best choice

sad this lady was killed but on her body would have been a better choice if she could have done it
kids imitate what they see adults do. that toddler probably saw her putting that gun in and out of that zippered purse and was trying to emulate her. damned shame but ultimately she should not have let a child be that close to a loaded gun. but really it could have happened to anyone.
My wife has two of that type carry purse and she told me she NEVER allows it to be off her shoulder when she shops. And if she ever has to use a public restroom (heaven forbid!) she hangs it on the door hook. We are long past having kids and have no grandkids yet, but have had this very conversation about cc carry in the past. I've seen women put their purses in the top of a grocery basket many times next to toddlers. Don't know if that was true in this case. Like Birdwatcher said, the kid's probably very confused now, not to mention the pain to her husband and the extended family. God help them. BTW, wife said her purses have key locks on them. Not much good when you really need the gun, but in this case.......
Quote
Again, you are judging her entire life based upon one incident.

I would expect better from a skeptic such as yourself.


Good point sniper. Incidents like these tend to bring out the worst of the judgmental types here on the Campfire.
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