I see targets that folks put up with their "100 yard" sight in.

I imagine a lot of peeps are kind of restricted by the shooting range target stops.

Anymore, I head out with a piece of cardboard to "yonder stump" or "old fence post", basically, FTFOI (for TF of it), and sight it in.

120 yards, 150 yards, 138.37 yards, just wherever. Rangefinder, or sometimes, I can consult my "target map" for the range...

1/4" per click at a 100 is 3/8" at 150, whatever, get it sighted in, then put out more targets at different ranges and start testing different BDC, and more recently, twisting elevation.

I have one target that doesn't move - 438 yards from the corner of the shed - so I guess it depends where I set my bench, or park the truck when I shoot, if its a few yards more or less. Or if the corn is too tall, in which case I can't see it....


Basically, I can't remember the last time I actually hit something at exactly 100 or 200 yards.

anybody?

Three inches high at 100 yards and head for the woods.

Yep, works for me.

100,200,300, etc..

Check them all, recheck dope sheet, ready to go.

Damn.

You must get some long shots there in the Ozarks.

Or shoot a caliber that has the ballistic coeffient of a mattress.

Tiny groups, aside from development is good for building confidence in gear...outside of that, nothing matters other that clean quick kills.

Sight in at 200. Then, shoot groundhogs, crows, rocks, stumps, steel targets, etc., at various ranges (lasered) to get used to the rifle.

That is a good way to shoot over stuff at the ranges you'll actually hunt. Or hit unseen brush.

I zero dead on at 100. With most modern loads, 308, 270, 243, etc., I'm no more than 1/2" high or low between 50 yards and 130'ish yards. Best way to shoot through openings in brush. I'm only a couple inches low at 200 yards and I can still hold on hair and get hits to 300 yards. Beyond 300 a rangefinder and dots on the reticle take over.

Anytime you zero above point of aim you are making things far more difficult at the ranges you will actually shoot for minimal advantages at ranges where you'll likely never shoot.

That's it.

hunting in Florida, at least where I go, is a short range affair. I sight in to be an inch high at 75 yards. I have not killed a deer past that range in many years. Well, there was one at a stepped off 250 yards, but that was an anomaly.

Yep there is a lot of this around here.

I develop loads from a bench at 100 yds, zero the scope whatever way strickes my fancy, then shoot reactive targets at between 255 & 378 yds (distance allowed in local hayfield).

One day a guy drove up behind me, looked at my milk jugs strewn across the hillside at 255 & asked if I was shooting a 50 BMG (he thought that was quite a distance). You can image the look of disbelief he had when I said no, just 223, 243, and 257. He kinda scoffed like I was putting him on and drove away.

For all the hoopla surrounding "stunt shooting" and such, I get more concerned about the guys who shoot once a year at maybe 100 yds, verify their rifle is "on" (which in itself is relative) then "hunt".

Scary.

I've been ringing steel at 77 yards of late, offhand with a Red Ryder. Lots of holdover but you can follow the BB during the entirety of its journey.

I haven't done stuff like that since I was a kid. Damn, was/is that a lot of fun.

I fudge a little in between for the reasons JMR40 mentions, but keep it simple with no dials nor range finders.

I sight my .30-06 big game rifle in for 2 1/2" high at 100 and used to check POI at 150, 200, 250 and 300 though haven't done much of that in recent years.

My critter calling rifle in .243 is sighted in a scant 3/4" high at 100 with a low mounted 32mm objective lens scope. My intent with that one is to thread bullets through the hole I'm looking/aiming through inside of 75 yards, and yet be good on fur out to 150.

I have shot over the back of one deer at 120 yards when all I could see was his back line, but killed him the second shot by breaking his neck. Also shot over a couple of coyotes at 75-100 with the 30-06.

Killed a buck at 260 yards last year with the 06 and hit him within an inch of aiming point. Also killed a buck at 110 yards by aiming right at a fir branch covering his shoulder, and broke his spine as I anticipated. Having sighted the same for 30 years and remembering what it does helps.

Nothing wrong with dials and range finders but simple still works to keep meat in the freezer.

Used to lay on the hay in our barn and shoot BB's at the neighbor's chickens about 75 yards away. Pure fun.

I'm kind of restricted by the location of a good backstop. I don't like shooting level with a rifle without knowing where the bullet is going to stop. When I hunt, it is always from a tree or tower stand. Mostly so that I can shoot down on the deer. There is much less chance of the bullet leaving my property if I do that and that keeps the neighbors cows happy. We have a 100 yard and 400 yard range, but nearly all hunting shots are under 100.

Im a whole lot less worried about the target being a whole number away than I am with my bullets striking the target in a nice little hole. If I can do math to get to long range...I can do it starting anywhere, besides.....shooting "long range" without actual validation is wreckless.

I found out that if you build your kid a sling shot, they'll be gone for hours....

I've damn near emptied a bottle of 2500 BB's in the past 1 1/2 months.

Worked for Jack O'Connor and it still works for me.

Dead on at 25, 2.5-3 inches high at 100 equals max point blank range.

Jack O'Connor?

Didn't he write about head shooting deer with a 22 centerfire?

So, which is it; 2.5" or 3.0" high at 100?

Oh, and for MPBR, it really does take a bit more than that - you need to know the BC of the bullet, for one, and velocity for another. A ballistics calculator busts a lot of old myths as does actually field shooting.

Upon either initial sight-in or any changes to components of either the rifle or the ammo or a cleaning, I spend whatever is the requisite amount of time/shots for a dead-on 200yd zero. Once done, the rifle is unlikely to see a bench or paper target again. After that it's either steel @ distance from field positions to verify drop charts or targets of opportunity, again from field positions.

dead on at 200, verify clicks at 100, 300, 400, 450,500, 550 and 600 at a minimum.

But 600 is as far as I can easily go out the back door.

Have I told you lately...


YOU SUCK!!!!

2 to 2.5 inch high with my Big Game Rifles and 1.5 to 2.0 inch high with my Varmint Rifles

My new backyard has enough room to stretch out a bit. ...

I zero at 200 yds. Where I hunt the longest shot I'll have is about 250 so 200 works well. I used to do the 3" high at 100 yds zero but when I actually shot them at 200 I found they didn't usually agree with the drop charts, sometimes they were 5-6" off. Scope height & other issues make it problematic to shoot longer range based upon a 100 yd sight in. You really need to shoot at longer ranges unless you're going to limit yourself to 100 yd shots on game.

Yep around here he would be in juvenile detention, and you would get a 100.00 ticket. BB guns, slingshots, bow and arrow and even blow guns are illegal in the city limits. Cant even shoot em in your garage.

99% of the land in this state is private. You are liable for any bullet that leaves your property for any reason.

All federal lands where you can shoot out to 500+ are off limits due to fire hazard.

Ted Turner owns all the land with good dog towns now, so you have to go to S.D.

Almost all deer are shot within 200 yards due to property lines.

The 2 ranges that offer 500+ are a 100 miles away, open on a 1 or 2 shoots to the public a year, but you can buy a membership for 350.00 a year.

Had a range out to 600 for 25 years, then the farmers started retiring and dying, sold the land off into acreages to a few people that didn't like guns or my shooting so they harassed me with cops and lawyers until I closed it and sold out after 2 years.
So now I am restricted to a club that only goes out to 300, and the 300 is open only at certain times do to the encroachment of acreages. Imagine that.

If you can fine, but I would imagine there are more that cant, then there are that can in this shooting world.

True, however isn't some sort of standard needed? For instance, if you do range estimation the old school way vs. packing yet another gadget, what is your point of reference?

Which is easier, asking yourself if a buck is less than 100 yards, or whether it might be less than 138 yards? I understand your system, it just seems to throw an unnecessary calculation (guesstimate) into the mix.

Standards like that are almost arbitrary.

At one time, I did all my work in meters.

When I feel like really going eccentric, I do chains and links for distance.

But going back to the BDC reticles. Most of them are good at approximating 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 OR 200-600, but never dead on if someone were splitting hairs, they end up with 100, 210, 305, or some other "close enough" number.

So does it really matter anymore where you sight in, because ultimately, you either dial it in, which makes zero range arbitrary, or you BDC will never be "balls on" which makes your baseline arbitrary as well, and everything "close enough"

Given resources available to properly determine range performance, and the ability to put time in to confirm "at range" performance, I think the only reason people still hold a 100 or 200 yard target is simply to post pics for reference.

Which isn't a bad thing, just an observation.


Edit to add, I recall working on a bedding issue with a gun and my resource for sage advice asked me what range I was shooting and how bad were the fliers.

I told him 150 yards (it was actually 153).

I don't think in conversation when he's asked what range I was shooting at, that I have ever given him the same number twice.

Many of my rifles have dots. I will do the first zero at 200 using the crosshair. but I wait for a good calm day and do the final zero at 300 using the correct dot. I will be off a bit at 200 and 400 but pretty dam close. I have used 400 yds too, but I find its not always easy to spot the impacts and its a long walk.

That's the way I set mine up also...

using a little logic, an antelope is 14 inches from breast bone to back bone... ( a white tail is a little larger and mule deer a little larger still, so an antelope size works for those also)

if I take that 14 inches and cut it in half, it gives me a 7 inch window of opportunity...

so if I zero a scope at 3.5 inches high at 100 yds, and know my MV, a ballistic chart will tell me at what distance that bullet will be at when it is 3.5 inches low.... that will tell me my point blank range.

if he is out there at 200 yds or so, aim a little lower then...

but if you are aiming on hair and hold it steady, you should be able to hit the vitals...

once this is accomplished.... I just spend time practicing at various distances out in the woods or at the range....

that is why it is called knowing your equipment.


before the "great 22 LR shortage", I would also spend a ten day period right before hunting season and go out and shoot my CZ 452 at paper targets are 100 yds off hand... 100 rounds a day.. do a couple, skip a couple...

but after 1000 rounds of 22 LR, its amazing how well one can get their trigger finger and shooting eye tuned up, and tightening those groups up....


or one can do like many of our locals... show up at the range...
shoot one shot out of old Betsy at a target at 50 yds, and if they hit it, they figure they are good to go...

or the Magnum Crowd that shows up night before season, with the BIG Scope they bought at Cabelas on top.... shoot up 3 or 4 boxes of Walmart Ammo.... and hit the target half a dozen times, and they figure anything within 800 yds is food on the table...

I sight in at exactly 100 yards with varying relief above bullseye for 200 yard zero or 300 yard zero for my mags.

After sighting in, I practice at 200 and 300 yards in various positions (prone, seated, shooting sticks, off-hand). I've never met an antelope, elk or deer that will give me the time to set up a table and sand bags.

I practice target acquisition, breathing and sight picture in first dry fire and then live ammo to save $$ and my shoulder. You'd be amazed how much better you shoot offhand with regular practice. You'd never go bird hunting without busting some clays would you?

I get a lot of practice, but I guess part of the routine (and not necessarily a planned one) is that I always vary the target distance.

Not by design, its just that I walk out and put the target holder down "where ever" or against whatever, then get back and either range it or calc a range, then shoot.

I am frankly surprised at the amount of "by-guess-and-by-golly" sight-in wisdom I come across time and again... and this thread is no exception.

There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all sight-in formula for all rifles and all calibers... "two/three inches at a hundred is all you need to know" is, frankly, laziness and equivalent to rifleman's malpractice. If all you plan to do is plink at cans or other targets, no big deal. But if you're going to actually shoot living critters (and I include varmints, they deserve a quick humane death no less than deer or other edible game) you owe it to them to know exactly where your rifle shoots at any range that you are going to shoot at game.

Ballistics tables can be generated in seconds for YOUR rifle and YOUR load. Try http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart for example. You can punch in various zero ranges for your load & rifle and come up with your optimum zero in less time than it takes to drink a cup of coffee.

I've used similar tables to work up zero's and effective ranges for all my hunting rifles. Here's some examples:

1. Winchester 270 WSM, 140 gr Accubond @ 3200 fps: I have this rifle/load zero'd at 300 yards, or 3" high at 100 yards. This puts maximum height above bore at 200 yards (3.9") and at 400 yards I'm only 8 inches below boreline; this gives me a "point-blank" range out to 360 yards or so, and with a bit of elevation adjustment, I'm able to hit MOA out to 450 yards with confidence, and have taken deer and antelope at up to 420 yards.

2. Savage M99 308 Win, 150 gr Partition @ 2800 fps: this rifle/load is zero's at 225 yards, or 2.5" high at 100. Trajectory in this case gives me maximum of 2.6" high at 150, and I'm 6" low at 300. I rarely shoot at game with this rifle farther than 250 yards, but can hit at 300 with confidence. My longest kill shot at game with this rifle/load was 275 yards.

3. Winchester M1886 45-70 Govt, 300 gr Ballistic Silvertip @2200 fps. I zero this rifle/load at 150 yards, or 2" high at 100. Trajectory is 1.3 inches high at 50 and 5" low at 200. This gives me a confident "point-blank" range of out to 200 yards, although I have not had the opportunity to take any game with it farther than 100 yards.

Well Doc,

you make a simple point... KNOWING YOUR EQUIPMENT can go a LONG way...

You can do more if you want, but for modern cartridges of the 30-06 and .308 class and all their derivatives, the 2.5 to 3 inches high rule of thumb works. Sight it in at that and you can hold on hair out to 300 yards. Then just practice.

Sure, there might be a few inches of difference here and there, but I usually use a 4x scope. The width of the crosshair at 300 yards is usually more than the difference you might get in the point of impact.

Sight in 2.5 to 3 inches high at 100 and then go practice. If you are not going to shoot at greater than 400 yards, everything else is mental masturbation. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that form of mental masturbation if you are into that sort of thing. Everyone has to have a hobby and one thing or the other to get anal retentive about.

I like hitting what I'm aiming at. And I'm not going to guess past 300 yards.

I sighted in my 30-06 for 200. My Leupold scope has a couple dots below the X-hair. The top one is perfect for 300. I haven't had it long enough to try 400 yet but I think the lower dot will be too high. It's probably good for about 350, just guessing.

I use iron or peep sights yet, sight in at 50 yards and use "Kentucky windage" for anything else. Most shots I take are at 50-75 yards anyway, not a long shot taker. Must have something to do with growing up on a farm in IL and hunting the north woods in the UP of MI or the swamps in FL. Just no need for a long shooter.

Range all depends on where you are. The last 2 elk I've shot were at 150 and 350. In neither case was it possible to get closer. No cover at all.

NO. You are mixed up with his threats to gut shoot with his .450 Watts any rifleman dumb enough to over complicate his dead-on hold for real world game shooting.

Jack knew that his 130 grain .270 game load at 3,140 was “on the nose at 275 yards” and with “a hold at the top of the shoulder would drop a bullet into the chest cavity of even a medium-sized deer to about 375 yards...and 375 yards is a long way off.”

Our club conducts a "Public Sight-in" day in which we provide the range facilities, spotting scopes, coaches, etc in order that the public can come out and get sighted in before hunting season. What a circus!!

Guys walking onto the range with loaded guns, even with one in the chamber. Muzzles sweeping the entire firing line. Many examples of wrong ammo for the gun. Scopes bubba-mounted 90 degrees out, putting the elevation knob on the side. List goes on and on. Many of these nimrods will admit the last time they shot was last season a year ago. Hitting a pie plate at 100 yards is plenty good enough for some of them. Kinda makes you wonder what goes on out in hunting areas.

Yes, but what range did you zero in the RR for?

Well, I have to disagree with you on that point... although we both agree on the MAIN point, which is that you need to get out and shoot YOUR rifle at the ranges YOU anticipate shooting it at game.

For most game rifles and loads, using a 2.5 to 3 inch zero at 100 yards will probably be fine, as long as you stick to calibers & loads in the middle of the road. But if you get outside the middle, things can go south in a hurry.

The 45-70 load/rifle example I gave earlier is a case in point. Some nimrod who doesn't understand the trajectory of that caliber could follow this rule and zero his scoped Marline Guide Gun 3" high and expect to hit game out to 300 yards, which ain't never gonna happen, since the bullet is dropping nearly 30 inches by that point.

Similarly, he could take his 308 rifle and shoot 180 gr loads in it and expect it to shoot the same as the 150's I cited before, and similarly miss a crucial shot.

For hunters, the point of doing the ballistics calculations isn't so you can pinpoint a bullet strike at a specific distance... rather, it's to determine your "point-blank" range with that rifle/load, so you don't have to think when a shot on game presents itself. All you have to do is put the sights on the boiler room and squeeze off the shot.

That's how I do it, anyway.

Pure bullshit.

All you gotta know is the way out the door and how to get to where you can do some shooting.

And many here want to blame all wounding on long range shots... heck they won't even come close to a long range hit... as they can't hit worth a flip at 100...

1000 inch range.

Well, you started a good topic that draws out varied replies from a diverse group with differing approaches. This has been interesting. As it should, the basic that emerges is that a guy needs to decide his tactic, know his sighting/trajectory performance, and practice plenty at likely ranges - so he KNOWS THAT RIFLE.

For my 2c, I use only a specific rifle/cartridge for each type of game hunt (not very many - 25:06, .300WM, .338WM, .375H&H) and apply a proven method like "2.5 to 3 inches high at 100 yards" - BUT ADJUSTED according to what I know about the specific loading and rifle.

But - I'm old - I forget things - so I cheat by writing the 100 to 500 yard impact points for that rifle/load on a small card and sticking the card on the butt pad. Of course - my much bigger challenege is gauging the distance to the animal.

Where I live, it is not uusual to get good shots at varmints by stepping out the door or out onto the deck. So, I cheat there too by having specific rifles set for each opportunity. The .22LR is dead on at 50 yards; the .22 Hornet tight at 100 yards; the .22/250 at 200 yards; the .220 Swift at 300 yards; and the 6.5/06 at 400. Brain is old, so put that POI info on a small tag that hangs on a sling stud for each rifle.

I try to practice beyond 400 yards by hitting two gongs visible out in the forested area - one set at 600 yards and one at 800. It's the eyes - am not very good at that LR practicing - or hitting. 1000 yards? - yeah - the thing is out there - but where?

Of course, such stodgy methodology derives after more than 50 years of trying to get it right and because, living here, a guy can shoot at a 1,000 yard gong from the porch.

Last season I "sighted in" my old Win. 94 .30-30 by stepping out the back door and firing 3 shots offhand at a 4" bull 65 yards away. My 3 shot group was centered 1" high and measured 1.5" ctc.. Sight in complete.

That's way too much work. I just get it bore sighted at Wal-Mart and go hunting.

Well, Wal-Mart clerks know a thing or two. I remember when WSSMs where all the rage. I was looking at a .243 WSSM and I said something like, "Yeah, but I can't really see much advantage over a regular .243." The Wal-Mart clerk fixed me with a stare that let me know I was obviously an idiot and said, "I beg to differ. The .243 WSSM drops a full 1.5 less at 300 yards than the .243. I would call that a big difference."

Right? There are plenty "gun nuts" that really are.

Exactly

With so many unknowns involved it doesn't hurt have a few knowns

I always zeroed dead on at 25 yds and fine tuned to longer range targets.

The only time I will see a deer over a few yards away will be an illegal deer to shoot... he would be on a public traveled road.

Yeah... and if you listened to me, you might actually hit something. ;-)

I'm sure it varies from place to place, but in my area I've learned over the years that if you want to kill a deer, get somewhere where you can see and cover a lot of territory. If you want to kill a GOOD deer, find the thickest thicket you can find where you could practically kill one with a rock.

Good deer are in bad places..

Recently went hog hunting with an old friend who hasnt shot a gun in 18 years. Seven shots at five different nice pigs, all shots at least 3 feet high.

On a serious note, my 22-150 shoots a 62grn TSX at 3630fps, 1/4" high at 100 yards and 3/4" low at 200. I don't guess too much.

Hunting mule deer out west will be a bit different.

That sounds really good - haven't shot, or even seen, one of those 22-150s. Where can a guy get one?

Those are just 22-250s repackaged for short people.

Ha...told you I don't shoot much.

"But - I'm old - I forget things - so I cheat by writing the 100 to 500 yard impact points for that rifle/load on a small card and sticking the card on the butt pad. Of course - my much bigger challenege is gauging the distance to the animal."

I used to tape "drop charts" to the stocks of my hunting rifles but I found a better way. I choose bullets and load data for the rifles I may use for deer hunting so the drop is the same for all of them;

22-250 AI [ Pat... is your 22 150 "improved"? ]

244 AI

257 Wby

270 Wby

338 Ultra Mag

Sighted in at 200 yards, they ALL drop around 5 inches at 300 yards.

Knowing THIS drop means I can multiply by 3 to get the drop at 400 yards [15 inches] and then multiply THAT by 2 to get the drop at 500 yards [30 inches]. THAT formula works on ANY bullet at ANY velocity, btw.

I bust gallon milk jugs from field shooting positions out to 500 yards using Kentucky elevation. I HATE scopes cluttered up with anything more than a crosshair, so I will not own one.

No. Just a plain ole 700 '250, other than the Hart barrel.

its improved from 150 to 250 apparently.

I was being conservative.

Last couple years prior to this one, I was going through a good amount of my BB stock. Muscovey ducks here are a PITA when they're schitting all over everything.

Haven't hardly seen many around for the last year or so. Guess they found greener, less painful pastures.