First official projection says at least 61% of Greeks voted ‘no’ in referendum

ATHENS—A first official projection of Greece’s referendum outcome, based on early counting, said that at least 61% of Greeks voted “no” to creditors’ demands on Sunday, an outcome that—if confirmed—would set the country on a collision course with the rest of the eurozone.

The projection, announced by the company Singular Logic, the official partner of Greece’s interior ministry in carrying out the referendum, was announced after some 20% of the vote had been counted.

“The estimate from Singular Logic is that the result in favor of ‘no’ will exceed 61%,” a spokesman for the organizing company said.

The official projection, if confirmed when all votes are counted, points to a heavier-than-expected victory for the “no” campaign against the austerity policies demanded by Greece’s creditors: the rest of the eurozone and the International Monetary Fund.

Four opinion polls conducted during Sunday by private broadcasters had pointed to a narrow majority for the “no” camp.

The projected outcome would strengthen the domestic standing of Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, who campaigned vehemently for Greeks to reject lenders’ terms for further bailout funding.

But Tsipras might soon find it difficult to deliver on his promise to secure a more lenient bailout deal from Europe, where other governments, led by Germany, are in no mood to offer Greece more generous terms.

Greece faces a race to secure financing before a major bond held by the European Central Bank falls due on July 20. Default could precipitate an escalation of Greece’s already severe financial and economic paralysis.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fi...greeks-voted-no-in-referendum-2015-07-05

Looks as if they want their cake and to eat it too.

They have a long standing communist segment, even greater than Italy, who might follow Greece, along with Portugal, and maybe Spain.

and barely a whisper about the Chinese stock market. 30% drop in the past 3 weeks equates to roughly a 2.4 trillion dollar loss.

Broke a lot rice bowls with that.

China's retail bubble is deflating.

I doubt the rest will follow. Their balance sheets are significantly better then they were 5 years ago.

Good for the Greek people! Of course now they may have to face the consequences of their decision and I would love this to be a nail in the coffin of the Euro...

If I owned a tramp steamer it would be stacked to the gunwhales with toilet paper and on a flank bell for Piraeus...unless Venezuela was closer.

Good read on the situation in Greece:

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/...ce-has-fallen-victim-to-economic-hit-men

can these folks really be this stupid?

Bottom line is, with the Greeks retiring at 45-50 years of age, their productivity does not equal there consumption. This vote was more about the retirement age as anything. From here there Greeks will start inflating, and perhaps hyper inflationary rates. This will reach a point where the retirees cannot survive on their benefits, and have to go back to work.

All this accomplished is an inflationary redistribution of wealth until their middle aged have to go back to work.

Never let a good crisis go by. A few get rich and plain everyday folks get soaked for billions. Kinda like our own "too big to fail".
kwg

China imo is a ticking time bomb.

It's a difficult market to trade, other wise I would already be short it.

if it turns out that Greece doesn't have to repay their debt, that'd be a good precedent for us?

I mean, we could say something like, "well, Greece didn't repay their debt, so why should we?"

get it?

Bristoe, are you really a Commie at heart?

that must be it

well, Bernie Sanders is running as a independent socialist, Hillary in my mind is running as a democratic socialist.

the rino's are running as a part of the demo lite coalition.

only Dr. Paul, Ted Cruz, and Donald Trump are running as some variety of conservative.

well, there's a few others waiting in the wings, but we'll have to wait to see where they throw-down.

So Gus,

Do you think there would be any consequences for the US defaulting on our debt payments?

since tricky dick managed to find a way to get us out of that democratic party led dirty little war in se asia, and concurrently found a way to help organize an expansion of the Chinese production machine, things have gone pretty good overall. wouldn't you say?

he did get us off the gold standard, and that hasn't been too bad either, overall. a lot of great, middle class housing has been built in the suburbs and exurbs in the last 40 years or so, with a few hiccups along the way.

it's been a deal made in heaven or some variety thereof. every young person I see has a hi-tech phone stuck in their ear, or there abouts.

what to do next? I have no clue. but there's nothing unusual about that.

Greece is just the first domino. Portugal, Ireland, Italy, and Spain are also in trouble due to their association with the International Loan Sharks.

All of them will eventually have a day of reckoning.

Per usual, you are just wrong. Or in this case, 5 years out of date.

kicking the can further down the road is a tried & true method for a ton of world-class actors.

it's worked so far, why can't it continue to work? I mean, why would anyone think the end was in sight?

Greece will continue to bring in tourist dollars. and the euro people will want Greece to remain a piece or part of the group.

the number of failed States will continue to increase. at some point it'll make good sense to absorb them into one or more non-failed states. it's a dynamic process. let the game play itself out.

So it is true, liberals will watch it burn to the ground before accepting water from conservatives.

The others are in better shape than they were 5 years ago, Greece, might be in worse shape.

They will be toast outside of the EU and outside of the € !!

Economics are tricky, best to go slowly in the right direction, because a) you might over-correct and b) you might not be going on the right direction so slow is your friend!

Sycamore

Absolutely!

The Greek people were sold a bill of goods by their guv. and its bankster con men(Goldman Sachs anyone?).

Yes, the Greek people were fools to vote them into office but look at what we've done here. $18 plus trillion in debt and we're being critical of Athens? Give me a break!

Greece canning the euro and going their own way is the best chance they have if they want to have any shot at all of keeping their sovereignty( Iceland anyone?). Hopefully more countries will pull out too, and this central bank monster called the euro will disappear into the ash heap of history.

Yep.

Greece's largest "export" is tourism. A hyper-inflating local currency will not help their tourism industry.

Liberals. Socialists. 'Nuff said.

Sadly if our country were to undergone the same vote today, 61% would have reflected the socialist party values here too.

As opposed to staying in and being someone else's strudel

They all (except for Italy, They had too much debt) took bailouts from the International Loan Sharks.

Once you take the loan shark's poison pill, the future is set.

Great Britain not doing so hot themselves....Oh well another Socialist experiment gone awry. Who would have thought

" . . . eat their cake and have it too."

Let's see where hubris takes the Greeks.

The EU and the IMF should not have kept pouring money in to Greece for as long as they have..Greece has been on the financial life support machine far to too long, and somebody needs to switch it off..

As others have pointed out, the majority of Greeks are essentially Socialists, and I am absolutely fine with that as long as I, however indirectly, don't have continue to pay taxes to keep them in that life style..

I therefore hope this vote is the Greek public in effect pulling the plug themselves..

What's your opinion on this? (I probably know in a basic fashion, but I'd like to hear what you have to say on the matter)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-for-extra-funding-from-eu-9816315.html

Factor in the dollar may take a tumble and no longer be the reserve currency say in 5 or 10 years unless we get a handle on our debt. I see the world in shambles for my grand kids thanks to socialists and liberals. Maybe then there will be an open season on them. Too late for me but maybe the grand kids can find it useful.
kwg

What do you expect me to say? its essentially an additional tax levied if your economy does well?

As I recall, there was a lot of hot air blown by our PM and the EU, some negotiations, leading to lets call it a restructuring of the bill..

The net result was Cameron could sort of say he greatly reduced the amount the UK was required to pay, but in reality, the EU more or less got what it wanted, but the payments were packaged differently..

The back story is that the UK's continued membership of the EU is a for divisive subject for the Tories, and could easily result in a civil war within the party..

Cameron therefore is stuck between a rock and a hard place and has to be essentially even more politically two faced than usual..

as several folks have pointed out down through the years,
Socialism works until you run out of other people's money. Greece is out of money, and no, socialism did not work for them either.
Just wanting to keep the gravy train rolling, won't make it happed for the Greek people.

Thanks for the link. Can't type much more than this without the Campfire bogging down. Agree with his analysis of the prob, disagree strongly with his big gov solutions. Only took five min to type this m

What ever you think.

I just wanted to hear your view.

Our media in America is fugged up. The interactive internet is all we have to learn from.

"Radio Free America!",.....more or less,...

Yep Greece is out of other people's money in Greece, and they just voted to continue their socialism with the money of other EU members.

However, I think the Germans and Brits, are not very enthused by this prospect. Give it a month or so, Greece will be out of the Euro.

I hope so, but I think the Germans face loosing too much cash just to let them walk away...The Greeks will use the No vote to call the bluff on the EU and try to re negotiate their debt..

As for us, the media and the politicians are underplaying the effect to the UK should Greece continue defaulting and leave the Euro...

I suspect the average Brit is mainly viewing the crisis in terms of Greece being a popular package holiday destination...

Don't blame the banks, they didn't make the budgets and run up the debt.

Merkel can take half of Cypress as repayment.,,,

When Greece pulls out of the Euro, Greece vacations will get a bunch cheaper for the rest of europe. You might have bring your own TP though .

Pete. I'm going to disagree. They needed to prop of greece long enough to get the Greek debt of the balance sheets of the potential domino counties. Now that that's done, it's time for Greece to agree to pay the piper, or get cut off.

Personally if I was at the World Bank (they are a better organization then the IMF) I wouldn't give them a dime until they actually passed, and had in place pension plan reforms.

They have been bailed and implemented reforms twice since 2010, they are done. I think your right about giving less secure financial institutions time to get greek bonds off of the balance sheet. I think the IMF owns most of the bonds, which are now worthless which they probably had planned for.

Norman, the IMF owns about 10% of the Greek debt. Most is actually owned by the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF). This is a large fund, backed by 14 European governments that raised this capital by issuing bonds. These bonds were purchased by the following investor classes:

Commercial Banks: 39%
Central Banks and governments : 30%
Mutual funds/Hedge funds: 23%
Pensions: 7%
Other: 1%

Most of the funding came from Euro denominated countries, only 2% came from the Americas.

As for Pete, the UK and Switzerland combined kicked in 16%

As for the value of these bonds, they continue to trade in the financial markets, however, they valued off the "full faith and credit" of the 14 guarantor nations, and not the prospects of Greece itself. As a result these instruments currently maintain a rating of AA-.

I'm not so sure about 61%. Sadly about 50% would, however. Give it time...we'll get to 61% far too soon.

All the money is just "printed" anyway.
Easy come, easy go. They'll just fire up the press and paper over the Greek loss.

If WE... ordinary U S Citizens... behave as if it don't make a rat's ass to us what happens in Europe.... we will turn it into a fact.

[bleep] International Immobiliare. Michael Corleone knew...

Next year might be a good time to plan a trip to the the Greek Isles. We can probably buy Corfu or Santorini with the loose change found under the sofa cushions.

commentary

http://bionicmosquito.blogspot.com/2015/07/damned.html

In a technical sense your right. The issue at hand is if the rest of the EU will guarantee anymore Greek bonds, because in the rest of EU doesn't want to pay Greece's bills. At the end of the day it's the tax payer getting stuck with the bill. I can't blame the rest of europe, why should the German people pay for the Greece's poor fiscal choices.

You just nailed one of the biggest reasons exactly why people in various states in the U.S. want nothing more to do with this fallen republic.

What is happening in Greece is what is happening in the large cities of the US, Which are dominated by unions and democrats. They keep thinking someone else will pay for all the entitlements and pensions. Sooner or later its going to dry up. Obama is on his way to make the US the same. He will have the ignorant controlling our destination.

What happened in Greece is, its government went into debt from the International Loans Sharks in order to keep the people happy in order to maintain their cushy political positions. (and all the perks that went with them)

Now, the International Loans Sharks are cashing in their chips and the Greek people have been left holding the bag.

Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

~ Shakespeare...

The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender. ~ Proverbs 22:7, KJV

yeah,...debt is slavery in the literal sense.

The Greek government sold its people into bondage. To an extent, the older people in Greece played along with it, so they have to share some of the blame. Although I doubt if many could understand exactly what their government was getting them into.

But the young people had no part in it. And the young people were motivated to learn exactly what had transpired because they were getting slapped in the face by the austerity measures.

So they turned out to vote "no"

I don't blame them.

If you can't vote yourself out of bondage, what da fug is a vote good for?

China just got its 1st lesson in Margin investing.

The Chinese tried their imitation of Richard Whitney ("I'll buy 10,000 shares of X (US Steel) a the Market"), with their 20 billion capital infusion into the market. I suspect they will fail in halting the decline just like Whitney.