They look ancient but deployed 50. Do we know where each one is and what kind of threat they pose? And to whom or what?

[b][color:#3333FF]Article says[/color][/b] 22 Diesel-Electrics built with 1950's plans from China...

They are diesel/electric, knock-offs of a Russian/Chinese design. According to Wiki, only about 20 of them are large subs ~1800 tons each. The rest are much smaller, 300 tons, and a few midget subs.

On battery they will be very quiet, and could be dangerous to shipping if they actually decide to start shooting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People's_Navy

4 former Soviet Whiskey Class

22 Former Chinese Romeo class

a few NorK make Romeo class subs.

The remaining are midget subs.

The Whiskey class is a 1940's design based on German WWII sub technology. The last one rolled off the assembly line in 1958. A few were converted to fire the SSN-3 missles. Depending on the variant they could carry 1-4 missles, but they have to surface to fire them.

The Romeo class is a 1950's improvement of the Whiskey class. The last Soviet one rolled of the assembly line in 1961.

The Chinese variants are typically consider superior to the Soviets one's due to upgraded electronic etc, however they are still considered obsolete.

Western navies have a name for these subs. They are called TARGETS.

If we have any kind of a SOSUS network in the area, or even a hand full of LA's in the area, yea, we know where they are and could put everyone of them on the bottom within 24 hours.

The dirty rotten bassages stole the plans from the CS of A





Mike

^^^^This is toooo funny^^^^

The bottom (NO pun intended) line...

You might be giving the Norks ideas...

U.S. Sub sonarman: "Sonar to skipper, I just heard two guys fart and someone say in Korean, 'Dear Leader does not approve' "

Skipper: "Ready one tor...wait, save the fish, we'll just drive past them quickly and crush them with our wake"

I suspect that our sub boys know where every one of them is.

The only threat they pose is to some other third-rate navy or shipping vessels that are pretty much running blind. If push comes to shove they will become underwater reefs very quickly.

My only comment is....LOL.....

Tony

Gotta believe they are mostly a threat to themselves...

This is just rumor,but I heard that the best way to sink a North Korean sub is,put it in water! memtb

Looks like the green paint might be suspect..(right click, view image)

Ancient sino/soviet (cnink/ruski) garbage manned by gooks with zero naval traditions and little training. Next question...

That rust would not inspire confidence, nor the small bit of mooring line left attached.

Not a sub guy, but it seems that getting a sub to sink is easy, getting it back up might be tricky.

That look like a piece of a mop string to me. They had to clean the deck before the Insane One came up for the photo-op.

Ed

Certainly the South Koreans have excellent sub-detection technology (probably on par with the US as we supply most of their defense needs). Yet, five years ago, a North Korean sub sank a South Korean naval vessel (see: http://www.bbc.com/news/10129703 ).

Diesel-electric subs are very quiet (even the older ones) and would most likely pose a real threat to any vessels in the area, unless the vessels constantly used active (pinging) detection.

Not a problem as long as the Norks have access to a [b][color:#3333FF]$#!%load of ping pong balls...[/color][/b]

You might be a bit optimistic. Even old subs can be deadly; just like an elderly cobra, it's venom still works.

No lifejackets?

As long as the threat is taken seriously and treated like a real threat so that all resources are brought to bear, I would imagine they could be sunk very quickly.

But hubris is our military's biggest Achilles heel and no one ever seems to learn from past mistakes. Our military is second to none but anyone who underestimates and scoffs at their opponent has always been in for a bad surprise.

"Indians with bows and arrows? Get real..." (said Custer).
"Stupid Japs, we'll lick'em in a week."
"Bunch of f*ckin' Vietnamese can't hurt us."

And so forth...

We eventually kick ass but not before getting a lot of Americans killed needlessly.

Don't you know - the Supreme Leader can walk on water. He doesn't need a life jacket. As the the officers on the sub, they are replaceable, so why waste money of life vests?

Then again I might not be, having spent quite a bit of time on one during my stint in the Navy. We played lots of war games with diesel boats, diesel boats a hell of a lot better than the ones we are talking about here. And we ate their lunch every day of the week, even in an old 637 class boat that was far from top of the line, even 20 years ago. I know somewhat of what I am talking about you see, having been there, done that.

Agree with all points. Eventually, the NK can be defeated, but there will be many deaths.

Also, keep in mind that the South has built it's capital's (Seoul) heavily populated suburbs virtually up to the North Korean border (DMZ) and North Korea has over 20,000 artillery pieces looking down into the city's environs. It would be a bloodbath!

I wouldn't buy one. Jap subs are more reliable.

Next Question; How do you really feel about their capabilities?

Without the traditions or training I envision scenes from the movie "1941" with Slim Pickens and John Belushi.

On a more serious note, how do these old sino/soviet subs hold up, structurally? Are they more susceptible to failure due to age?



Ed

And yet, in spite of this technology, the Norks sank a state-of-the-art South Korean naval ship in 2010. see: http://www.bbc.com/news/10129703

A report on the incident stated:

"The evidence points overwhelmingly to the conclusion that the torpedo was fired by a North Korean submarine.

"There is no other plausible explanation."

Something must be worrisome in the South's naval bureaucracy.

No matter how well maintained, they are still horribly outclassed by any modern navy. And I'm betting they ain't maintained very well either. Having rust up on your hull during a publicity shoot doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Any brass I know would have reamed someone up one side and down the other for that.

And then we have the issue of training. Even the best piece of equipment is only as good as its skipper and crew. You gotta remember, the NORKS aren't exactly known for encouraging free thinking. That is what makes U.S. sub skippers so good, is they are basically turned loose on their own to prove themselves, and if they can't cut it they get canned. Saw it myself several times. Aggressive tactics are encouraged. They are wolves.

I hear their subs are equipped with screen doors....

DJS certainly doesn't let common sense or factual evaluations get in the way of his delusions.

Plants his flag of ignorance and defends it until the end.

And a sucker punch is still a sucker punch too. The surprise shot usually works. But after that the gloves come off. Not saying they can't sink someone with a cheap shot before the onset of hostilities. But life expectancy after that is short. Very short.

I honestly don’t recall ever wearing a lifejacket on the bridge, even in some very crappy weather. The cockpit was chest high or thereabouts and pretty secure. The lookouts might have worn jackets, considering they usually stood a little higher on the bench in the back of the cockpit, but they could also tether themselves to the boat. That tether might have kept me from losing my lookout one night in the middle of the Atlantic.

Subs are fascinating machines, even if they are old, and belong to crazy people.

If they actually dispersed them, then gave a signal for all to attack the ship nearest each sub, they could probably sink a dozen or more ships before hell was unleashed on them.

I dunno what their range is, but I hope if one tries to slip over to Japan or Hawaii, it would meet with a sudden unexplained accident

Me too - as I served only on diesel boats. It's the reason (other than pure age) that diesel boats were 'retired' many years ago.. Old technology. You don't see the old 'dial' telephones any longer either..

It was more a commentary on the sea-worthiness of the vessel in the glamour shot.

and

And, what part of my postings re this subject do you find non-factual? Is it that:

1. There is a North Korea?
2. They are ruled by a narcissistic, ruthless Supreme Leader?
3. they have a very large military force (abet obsolete in many areas)?
4. They do have a number of diesel-electric submarines?
5. They did use one of these subs to torpedeo and sink a South Korean warship killing 46 seaman?
6. This sub was apparently undetected as it maneuvered to launch the torpedo?
7. A South Korean-led investigation carried out by a team of experts from South Korea, the United States concluded that the warship had been sunk by a North Korean torpedo fired by a midget submarine. This report was presented in a summary of its investigation on May 20, 2010?
7. The South Koreans are heavily dependent on the US for most of the high-tech the weapons they use?
8. The US has pledged to defend South Korea and has deployed about 30,000 US troops, US aircraft, as well as US naval forces in South Korea. I assume these US troops and naval personnel have access to the latest US military technology.
9. That South Korea has allowed it's capital's (Seoul) suburbs to extend to within a few miles of the DMZ and North Korea's border? Downtown Seoul itself is only about 30 miles from the DMZ. see: http://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/SEOUL-lives-life-on-the-edge-Just-35-miles-from-2557590.php
10. The DMZ is a popular tourist day trip from Seoul? see: http://www.qsl.net/ah6hy/SKDMZ.html
11. North Korea has about 20,000 artillery pieces amassed on the DMZ aimed at South Korea?

Or, maybe you are piqued at something else - what?

Story re North Korea Subs - "North Korea's Ongoing Massive Submarine Deployment Is Worrisome" see: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/north-koreas-ongoing-massive-submarine-deployment-is-wo-1726797346

Any submarine is worrysome. But their fleet has very limited capabilities. While submerged on battery even the old Whiskey and Romeo's are pretty darned quite, but at some point they have to run those diesels, and that's where they get caught. But they can raise a lot of hell and cause some headaches. But the South would deal with them, and God help the Norks if we got involved...it'd be a US submariners wet dream.

I almost guarantee our subs can hear them from a looooooooooooooooooooooooong ways out. Hell they can probably listen to their conversations inside the boat.

In relative terms, Whiskey's and Romeo's are pretty loud. If these were Kilo's with post 86 props, I'd be a lot more worried.

they are more of a danger as floating debris than weapons. they used to use the smaller ones to drop sappers off along the ROK coast to infiltrate and perform small terror/surveillance activities back in the 70's and 80's. as with most of their weapon systems, ROK and US forces would make very short work of them.

In that case he probably just didn't want to look like Dukakis in the tank with the helmet on. Those other two doofuses sure were dressed to the nines though. Those norks sure do like their goofy looking dress caps.

The North's subs are loud and they will be sunk eventually, but what damage might they cause before they are sunk?

Here's a story on the North's military - see: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...eas-military-capabilities_n_3153691.html

With thousands of artillery pieces and millions of men under arms, they can cause a world of hurt before they are stopped, even after their subs and aircraft are destroyed.

Food for thought.

Thanks all. You all seem to be feeling like me about it. So - sooner or later is something is going to have to give regarding NK or will it just go on like this for another 50 years?

It's certainly going to go on for another 16 months.

Not if they are running on batteries, in which case, they are practically impossible to detect unless active prosecution methods (Sonar) is used..