The Polish government had a press conference today officially confirming its existence. They claim not to know what is on it, but they confirm the existence of a 100 meter long armored train and they estimate its value at least 1.2 billion Euros.

Regardless of what actual treasure is on that train, a 70 year old train that was parked and walked away from is a treasure in and of itself. The locomotive and the cars will be worth millions themselves. Everyday objects on the train could well be priceless today.

It may turn out to be another Al Capone's vault, but this could be the biggest archeological/historical find of the century.

Thanks for update, JoeBob. I do not get to see much in the way of news here At the place!

VERY cool! I can't wait to see what's on it. Sound like the discoverers got their deal. 10% of 1.2 Billion Euros + is a nice payday.

Ed

I wonder how much of that stuff will walk off? Also wonder if the Jewish people and descendants that the loot was taken from will be considered. Going to be very interesting to hear about it.

The litigation to determine the rightful owners will go on way beyond my lifetime.

Update: Millions of euros worth of priceless artifacts were tossed in the garbage by two women assigned to "dust and tidy up" the train before inspectors arrived to inventory and evaluate the contents. "What's the big deal about all that old junk? I got furniture older than that in my apartment", responded one cleaning lady when asked about the mishap.

This is, after all, Poland...

I'd like to see pictures soon


An entire train hidden for 70 years.

last week in 15 foot of water a diver stumbled upon 4.5m in gold coins.

crazy that this stuff is out there still to be found.

PM your cell number.




Travis

not those kinda pictures

I'm going to wait and see what Megyn has to say.

Roflmao!!! now that's funny!

"You know how I hate midgets,,,,,, and antique furniture!!!!"

As cool as it is to find today, imagine how cool it would have been for someone to find it in 500 years or a 1,000 when much of the history and context had been forgotten or lost.

Allegedly a deathbed confession, and their not saying who made it, led to its discovery. Imagine carrying that secret for 70 years. And, of course, if someone actually kept it a secret for that long, odds are that there is something pretty dang valuable on it.

ABC is reporting that they think it could be booby trapped. So they sent in a cleaning lady to set them off?

ABC is reporting that they think it could be booby trapped. So they sent in a cleaning lady to set them off? [/quote]

This is, after all, Poland...

They are waiting for Geraldo to do a live exclusive on opening it up.

All I can think of is SNL skit with Garrett Morris as cleaning lady with mop bucket cleaning up after Three Mile Island meltdown!!!

A highly trained Polish midget from Wisconsin - who was carrying a cell phone with only one number - Travis!

No way some cleaning lady threw out millions. Any of this story verified and true yet?

Gold/jewels will, of course, be in excellent condition. The amount of moisture in that tunnel will determine the condition of any books/paintings/etc. Mold and mildew will be the enemy. I'm not at all familiar with Wehrmacht trains, but it would be jaw-dropping to see a rack of pristine Schmeisser MP40's on a carriage wall, maybe some Kar-98k's, etc.

I heard that Geraldo's on the way...

I see that now some reporter in Poland is speculating that the famous Amber Room from St. Petersburg could be on it. Needless to say, that's 110% speculation but it would be the find to end all finds if it's there.

The cleaning lady post must be tongue in cheek. Last I heard they had not opened the tunnel yet, but using some type of sensors have confirmed a train with artillery on some cars.

JMR, WWII armored trains USUALLY ha 1 flatcar ahead of the locomotive,,loco,tender the 2 armored gun cars with 20mm side shooting guns,an 88 or 75 mm turreted gun on top then freighter cars after. usually 2. Fully armed train will be impressive.

What I want to know is how do you lose a 100 meter train for 70 years??

Where the hell was it?

This is in POLAND.

What more needs to be said?




Dave

It's in a tunnel built for air raids. I don't know how they hid the tracks going in unless they completely removed the rails and the roadbed.

Lets just say the Poles were a bit behind schedule. When Germany invaded them at the start of the war, the Poles sent out horse cavalry to stop the tanks. Didn't work.

They went to their death knowing they could not prevail.

Give them their due, they were brave bastards.

Hell In 1939 every army in the world still had mounted cavalry regiments. Some used the hell out of em pretty effectively. Like the Russians for example.

This.

The Polish Air Force (yes, they had one) was flying WWI vintage and engineered craft against the Luftwaffe. They knew they were going to die, but they fought and did so valiantly. They put up FAR more of a fight than did the better armed, better equipped, and better warned French (Army, not Resistance - the French Resistance were badasses).

Didn't they rip the fugk out of all the tracks and blow as many tunnels and bridges as possible?

I would think one blown tunnel would look the same as the rest.




Travis

In post war interviews with German participants in the Battle of France, German troops stated many times that the fight in France against French troops was a bad as anything they faced in Russia. The problem with the poilu was the French govt finally decided to revamp their military in 1935. To little too late The vast percentage of the forces in metro France were reservist still issued Great War equipment.

Look at the numbers of casualties on both sides in 5 weeks of fighting!!!

Yeah, it is pretty much a debunked myth that the Poles charged tanks with horses. Oh, the Poles had horse cavalry, as did everyone else in 1939, but they didn't use them against tanks. Remember, in 1939 tank warfare was still largely theoretical and some still thought that cavalry would be the best way to exploit the gaps that tanks made in enemy lines.

Oh, and there WERE instances of Polish cavalry catching German support units unawares and absolutely cutting them to ribbons. Cavalry, used correctly, was still pretty effective back then. Hell, in the right terrain and circumstances, it could be today. The main advantage to cavalry has for the last 150 years or so, in delivering men to the fight quickly as opposed to the actual fighting.

And as for the amber room, it is speculation, but not completely baseless speculation. The last place it was definitively seen was in Koenigsburg. Koenigsburg was largely evacuated to Breslau. Breslau is where the train originated. Likewise there are reports linking it to a train in Breslau in the last days of the war.

The story regarding the Pollocks cavalry attacking tanks isn't as "stupid" as a lot of people make it out to be.

At that point in history countries either transitioned, or were transitioning to armor. If you didn't have armor, you used horses. Technology took a huge leap and not every nation was ready for it.



Travis

Wrong kind of train, you sicko!

The French actually did a lot of modernizing in the early 1930s. The problem? The state of the art fighter plane of 1934 was hopelessly obsolete by 1939 against a German Air Force that really didn't get serious about modernizing until 1936-37. French tanks however, were better than anything the Germans had. The doctrine was wrong in their use, however.

The poor French really had no chance. The Maginot Line worked. However, they had a real problem with Belgium. Belgium was an ally and therefore, the French had to stop at the border with Belgium. If they had built the Maginot Line on the border with Belgium, that would have been a very clear signal to Belgium that in the event of a war, the French intended to sit behind their line and leave Belgium to its fate. That realization would have probably caused Belgium to cast its eyes eastward to Germany and an alliance or agreement with Germany in hopes of security. It would have upset the balance of power and potentially given the Germans a free ride to the French border with Belgium in the event of a war.

So, the French could not build the Maginot line all the way to the sea and instead, promise Belgium that in the event of war with Germany that French troops would rush forward to defend Belgium against invasion. The Germans capitalized on this and waited for the French and English to rush into Belgium and simply cut in behind them and cut them off.

You do know that jealousy is a sin...right?

I will respectfully disagree about the quality of the French tanks. The Renaults were no match for the front line German armor.

Joe Bob,

You are 100% correct. The French plan was not to fight the next war in France! The Maginot line as you pointed out did exactly want it was suppose to do. Force the Germand back into the Low Countries

The Belgian King opted to declare neutrality. Hence stopping construction on their portion of the line. The French terrain on the Belgian border would have taken immense additional engineering construction due to the water table.

French armor was feared by the Germans. As I stated once before a treatise from St Cyr by General Fontaine laid the groundwork for a method of armor/infantry assault interaction. But fell upon deaf ears in the French govt.
The French had an immense army. But most of it was around the world in colonies. And their metro army was divided into three types. A standing army of individuals who were obligated to a two year enlistment, Groupe A reservist who were the former active duty types and Groupe B reservist. Who were the older vets like Great War Vets. It was a Groupe B division (the 55eme) that stopped Rommel at Sedan for three days until he hit them with over 2000 Stuka sorties and the division ceased to exist!

Yes but the Char B's and Soumi 35's were more than a match for German Armor. Matter of fact first tanks American paras hit during Market Garden were captured Char B's in German service!

Why are you talking and Renaults in WW II? They were regulated to last ditch second rate unit use by then. The Char B and the SOMUA were quite a bit superior to German tanks of the time. Remember, German tanks that invaded France were mostly Panzer IIs and IIIs. They were very lightly armored and armed tanks. There were a few IVs, but not many and they were armed mostly with guns in the 50mm range instead of the 75 mm that later made the IV the most useful tank of the war.

Good to have you back, JSTUART.

Thank you Joe Bob for catching my auto correct Somua! LOL!

Have a bio of a French soldier who was captured in '40 and spent almost the entire war in a POW camp. He mentioned that the first MAS 36 he saw was in the hands of a German guard taking them back to Germany!

He refered to it as "the new rifle with the disappearing bayonet".

I agree KW. The issue with the French armor was the way they were employed, mainly as an infantry support tool. Most of the German tanks were PZKW I & IIs that didn't even have a main gun and were really no match. The IIIs & IVs were good tanks but they did not constitute the bulk of the German armor.

Blitzkreig was what gave the German the edge (along with all the aforementioned issues) it was a combined arms effort with air power providing what was a very effective close air support with two-way comms between the air, infantry and armor as a coordinated thrust. That and some gutsy moves by Guderian. I'm also glad to see you brought out the smackdown Rommel received near Sedan as well. j

For a totalitarian state, the Germans had quite a bit of the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing.

After the surrender of France, the Germans demobilized and mustered out a schit ton of divisions. They put off plans to modernize the Panzer IIIs and IVs by upgunning them. And they even changed some factories back to civilian production instead of military production.

So, the Army and the civilian infrastructure, far from planning for the invasion of the Soviet Union a year later, was getting back to life as normal.

The German divisions that invaded Russia were actually worse off than the ones that had invaded France. They contained fewer tanks and other equipment across the board and the tanks were largely unchanged from those that invaded France.

As late as 1943, the Germans had not switched over to a total war philosophy and were still squandering resources. It was amazing.

Holy hijack Batman!

Something that also hurt the French real bad were roadways packed with refugees! Being too dependent on the civilian phone service, and placing their refuel and support elements at the rear of their convoys. This really hurt when mixed withthe refugees.

There was an instance when the finance minister Renaud's mistress was directing traffic one morning at a crossroads in from of his country villa.

Another thing that was not too helpful for both British and French allies were the "chateau generals" who would not go to the front. German commanders tended to be at the front!!!!!

A pretty complex situation that I've always felt was an interesting study!!

The Rubix cube and the solution to Germany's Enigma Machine were developed in Poland.

What was ever created in Havre MT (other then yourself)?

I'm not from Havre you stupid Pollock.




Dave

Don't tell that to my late uncle and the other Polish pilots that flew in the Polish Air Force with the RAF. He flew a Hawker Hurricane during the Battle of Britain. The 303 Polish Fighter Squadron was one of the most effective, if not the most effective, RAF Fighter Squadron at the time ... A fact that was "hidden" from the British people for many years.

Hey another bit of trivia! Merrian Cooper, movie producer and director with old John Ford flew as a volunteer in the Polish Air Force during the russian war in the early 20's! He was even shot down and captured!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabby_Gabreski

It would make a great "In Search of" Episode like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBLn1YK5M3E

Gabby was a favorite ace of mine from WWII. I liked that he flew a P47.

Back to the OP. I really would like to have an 88 and some ammo. I don't suppose they will get on the open market, though. Until she retired, my wife was a "cleaning lady", and I helped at times. Maybe they will let us in for first peek.

Please let it be booby trapped.

Why did I know that someone would say that?

And, good morning to you Dave.

Not sure what to make of your post other than to ask why you list your location as Havre MT. OK, maybe you were born (or hatched) elsewhere, but ....

Maybe YOUR location should be given as Havre PL.

Sharp as ever.

Fugkin' Pollock.




Dave

Dave, your magnanimous and classy upbringing never fails to amaze me. In words even you would understand, "You da man, bro."

A black-Pollock?

Does that mean your dick's the same size as your nose?





Clark

On the subject of our good friends in Poland y'all see this????

http://mashable.com/2015/08/31/auschwitz-cooling-showers-offend/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link

There are a lot of Pollocks in the Chicago area. Just sayin'.

Maybe the L will disappear also.




Travis

Again, your decency, kindness, class and value-to-the-human race shows through! Go get another beer.

A beer?

This ain't the hood, you stupid pollock. We buy beer in bulk.



Travis

I thought Travis grew up in baltimore

Not well thought out.

I guess if you see the world through a set of ovaries it could be upsetting.




Travis

Anybody think the original owners relatives will get anything back. Hasbeen

Travis, grown up!

...besides, what is the point of being grown up if you cannot be childish now and then.

Probably not, but every lawyer within a 1000 kilometres will be busily beating himself off in anticipation.

#flaveslifematters





Dave

But they had to send the Rubix cube out of Poland so someone could solve the damn thing.

Well, in your case, the local supermarket must do a volume business in beer and milk. Your avatar suggests just how much milk you dribble down your shirt.

In most cases, proof of ownership will be impossible to come by. Possibly, well known artworks have a provenance which can take the form of historical records, auction house records, photographs with the family posing in front of the work, etc. There was a case several years ago in which an American woman (whose family lived in Austria) used photographs to recover a lost painting from Yale University (I believe).

see: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/a...-to-return-art-looted-by-nazis.html?_r=0

Need a highjack thread icon!