So as not to derail the other thread where you are so completely getting your ass handed to you, I'll use this to engage you in debate if you have the balls to
And since it have nothing better to do right now except watch mud dry

You say it's time for logic but you yourself don't use any

In your mind it is not ok for me to own a single 15 or 30 round magazine, yet I can own and carry any number of 10 round magazines.


Please explain how reduced round count will curtail the number of people injured/killed in one of these trajedies?..

You're aware that it takes approximately 1 second to change magazines aren't you?

You do know that the AR wasn't used yesterday right?

Do you hold any responsibility for this on the school administration who not only had their security personnel unarmed, but also prevented a student who was armed from intervening armed quite possibly, as we saw with yhe Oregon (I believe) mall shooter who immediately turned his gun on himself once he was that he was being engaged by a CCWer- could have drastically mitigated any further casualties?

crickets...

Don't forget the verified statistics of reduced violent crime and murder rates being lower now than at any time since the early 1980s (or beforehand), along with other crime being on the decline - all the while firearms ownership is at all time highs as well as concealed carry being much the accepted legal norm than otherwise.

Oh, and before he cites (if he even would) any "public health statistics", those are worthless as they are funded specifically by Michael Bloomberg with the stated mission to justify his anti-2A agenda (that goes for Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Chicago, Washington, and others). Those numbers are quickly debunked by academic research done outside of his funding streams at places like Harvard Law School and others.

Then again, he and his ilk NEVER mention the rampant crime rates in places like Chicago and Baltimore, nor do they get into the demographics of gun crimes and the attendant reasons underlying those numbers (the gun isn't to blame), nor do they EVER mention that each of these school shooters has been on psychotropic drugs and come from nearly identical backgrounds.

So much for the "weight of evidence".

Eric is a liberal plant. I'd wager he makes minimum wage spamming websites such as this one.

Not a bad gig I guess, it beats flippin quarter pounders all day.

No, now the going wage for folks like him is $15 an hour.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and offer him the chance to debate


I'm serious fellas I'm getting paid 37 bucks an hour to watch mud dry today, and I'll be here until 6 tonight


Eric I'm waiting

Eric, if we are going to ban standard capacity magazines. Then that should go for LE and political security agencies as well correct, as well as bans on "assault rifles"?

I'm at my day job, so briefly (I'm only a part-time ISIS/DNC plant).

No law acceptable to a free society is going to eliminate any and all possible techniques for inflicting mass-casualties by a determined actor, and we could discuss all day the mechanics of quick mag changes in stressful situations. And if I'm correct, there were concealed carriers present who were innefective (could be wrong about that, details still sketchy).

However, limiting large cap mags in semi-autos is, I believe, addressing at least one common denominator in these shootings. Limiting firearm access to those who are unfit, limiting the numbers of firearms specifically designed for and ideally suited to mass casualty shootings, will I believe help the problem.

Its folly to say because we can't do everything we should do nothing, and I'm not convinced further saturating the landscape with guns is the answer.

That concealed carrier was prevented from acting


Exactly how would lower cap. Magazines have helped mitigate the tragedy...


You spout talking points but have no substance behind it



We have already seen, alla Roof that increased background checks don't work

It was also seen with the VT shooter

Even if what you say is correct (and almost none of it is), you cannot address the real problem with gun laws:

Criminals don't obey them.

In fact, I'll wager you cannot name one single law of ANY kind that criminals obey.

Are you really so stupid that you think banning anything works? When you ban something then it becomes more available on the black market. Only honest people obey the Laws. People who think like you are the real problem that this country faces and nowhere close to the solutions. If you really want to help then push to have the Democrat Party banned from the country.

You're right things need to be done

Let's start with forcing the institutions to take security seriously, and not allow them to make it a visual show and nothing more. If that institution made the decision to prevent it's students from excersizing their right to self defense, it them tool on the obligation to provide proper securiry, a rent a cop with pepper spray making minimum wage isn't it.

Well, at least you are capable of admitting some degree of truth.



A determined attacker is only going to be thwarted by either 1) early intervention against the attacker himself before the plan is in action (i.e., catching him/her in the planning stages, like when this one was posting on forums about his plan); or, 2) by defensive measures by those on the scene with capabilities to stop or blunt the attack.

There were no CCW carriers present in the room. Those close by were ordered and restricted by the College administration from offering aid and assistance or engaging the shooter.

The VaTech shooting was done with 10 round magazines; lots of them, and could have just as easily been done with 7 or 8 round magazines.



You continue to concentrate on the weapons used, not the shooters themselves and you only concentrate on "mass shooters". The reason for that is because to actually concentrate on violent crimes will force you to admit that overall violent crimes are way, way down and that those that still exist are not the fault of the firearms used but of demographics and populations in society that you will not admit are a huge problem.



You're not convinced of anything because you're concentrating on the wrong problems and on the wrong issues within those problems. The "weight of evidence" does not support any of your agendas; it hasn't, and it won't.

BTW - I notice you've dropped the "ban on ARs and military-style weapons". That was the only play you had because those weren't an issue here and are almost never the issue in violent crime.

"Eric", honest people obey laws, for the most part. The exception might be tyrannical, unjust laws.

Criminals work outside the law, any that impede their enterprise. Please explain how any law will stop a criminal that by definition works outside the law.

Eric in your first post on this subject you stated,What we need is a ban on mags over 10 rounds, the AR-type rifle and its clones, a voluntary buy back on those in circulation, tightened licensing requirements, and increased mental health services.that voluntary buy back statement ,I have always noticed that anything the goverment says is voluntary ,they soon make mandatory ,then it will be confiscation ,..kind of like Conn. and N.Y have proved that

Eric

Cocaine is banned

Meth is outlawed

Heroine is illegal to possess


Those items no longer cause problems do they?

A man in a gun free zone with a TC ECORE Pistol could kill a lot of people if he is the only one armed.

Y'all just stand by a while and let Eric drag his carcass back in here to "defend" his positions.

I've dealt with those that fund him, so dealing with him won't be too difficult at all.

In New York, in 1990, a guy got upset, took a few dollars worth of gasoline, and burned down a crowded bar and killed 80+ people. Strict gun laws in NYC

China recently had a terrible string of stabbings at schools, multiple children dead and dozens more injured. No guns involved.

Charlie Hebdo attack - granted it was terrorism, but France has tough gun laws, yet the killers were able to get AK47's in France. Ditto the thwarted train attack.

In the modern world, when someone is consumed with hate, they can find a tool to commit mayhem.

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. That's a liberal for you.

in other words I am to busy scanning other gun sites pretending to be a hunter looking for suckers.

Paid and bought for by the liberal loonies.

Guy should be immediately banned from this forum.

Ignore list he goes.

Be a leader. Turn yours in first.

maybe you and your family will be the next ones eating lead in your gun free zones.

gitem 12,

I really appreciate your approach to Eric380 and his post. His arguments can and should be met with logic and civility. If he is really honest in his statements, I hope he will actually consider what you and others have pointed out.

That was my point behind a new thread, leaving the bashes to the other thread..

He has yet to provide any of what he so valiantly called for in the head he other thread....logic

dhimmicrat/commie trolls do not come here to debate. They have two goals. First is to spew their idiotic lefty ideas, and second, they want to foment hate and discontent. To stir the pot, if you will.
Eric is not interested, nor equipped to 'debate'. He states his poistion, defines the terms as they fit his agenda, and moves on.
He does not merit civility or the benefit of any doubt. He is a flat out troll.

so your solutions is "there's a chance some whacko would possibly be able to kill fewer people, dependent on him being bad at swapping mags"

as opposed to my position of "let other people be armed if they wish, it will deter whackos from trying such a thing because they know someone might be there to stop him. AND if he does try it anyway, someone with a ccw can stop him or pin/slow him down until additional help arrives" my worst case scenario still beats your best case.


who ultimately always stops these crazies? someone else with a gun. how does your argument of proposing there are fewer people in the vicinity capable to do that even make it past your mouth? you're a special kind of stupid aint ya?

Well, when everyone is taught to cower like sheep and not fight back, or have the ability to shoot back, a guy with a pocket full of 5 round magazines can do just as much harm as a guy with a pocket full of 30 rounders.

When everyone lays on the ground, he has all the time in the world to stand off and plink away and reload at his hearts content.

I get a kick out of folks who think the "Law" protects them, the "Law" is in place as a guideline for a civilized society, when you step beyond that line there are consequences to be reckoned with it does nothing to protect you.

The "law" is what the gov't uses, when it feels like it, to prosecute criminals after the criminals have already had their way with you and yours.

It appears this is an example of the sought after gun control policies that Eric espouses. In this case, the criminal had the weapons, while the law abiding citizens did not.

If one thinks that the solution to this problem is further eroding the rights of the law abiding citizenry, I would suggest checking your premises.

Eric,
I have to give you credit. You win the most ironic sig line award for the day!!!

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -Isaac Asimov[u][/u]

One round from some young female student with a 38 special could have put this crazy SOB in the dirt.
Then he wouldn't be a hero to the next crazy who has the urge to try something.
Respond, kill them quick after the first shot, and show the world they are miserable nothings.

Liberal minds never reach maturity, they need a mother figure to protect and guide them until the grave. Unfortunately they expect the government and it's agents to be a surrogate parent and never learn to rely on themselves or defend themselves.

I started another thread with some hard data in response to the President's challenge last night, but here it is again for Eric.

Response to President's Challenge

Now that the president has thrown down and declared it time to politicize the issue and pick sides, he just left me on the other side.

I took the prez’ challenge from last night and just looked up muslim attacks in the United States and murder statistics on the FBI’s website.

See table below for a listing of muslim attacks in the United States in recent years.

National Propaganda Radio will not send any message contrary to Obama’s propaganda spew, so start trying to look at other sources of info and thinking.

Contrary to what Obama was spewing last night, look at the “gun free zones” and cities with extreme gun control – Baltimore, Chicago, DC, Detroit – are not safer.

It makes things dramatically more dangerous, and while it is not PC – there is a huge common denominator in the FBI data. Dare to be honest about the objective facts.

The rate of violent crime in Austin is 290/100,000 with high rates of gun ownership vs. 380/100,000 for Chicago his hometown with a near complete ban.

Houston, which has a higher percentage population of “minorities” and is only 150 miles from Austin, is 567/100,000.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-6

Blacks commit 51% of murders even though they only constitute 13% of the total population.

That is not racism, that is objective fact compiled by the FBI crime reporting data.

Here are the statistics by race:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-43

Census demographics by race:

http://www.census.gov/popest/research/modified.html

As for the push again to ban rifles, in California in 2014, more people were killed with hands and fists (97) than rifles of all kinds including “assault rifles,” (40).

In Texas, which has waaaayyyyy more "assault rifles" than California probably literally 10x or even 100x as many as California, there were only 33 murders with rifles of all kinds vs. 103 killed with hands and fists.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-20

Why does the federal government keep talking about banning rifles? Why?

Handguns are used 15:1 over rifles (483 vs. 33 for Texas)(364 vs. 5 in Illinois with an extreme handgun ban).

Yet, the push is to ban rifles.

Illinois has effectively completely banned handguns, yet there are 387 handgun murders. How did that happen?

The District of Columbia has banned handguns, but not rifles, yet it had 30 handgun murders and 0 rifle murders.

There is an agenda and it is not to protect citizens.

More is coming out today this was racially and religiously motivated hate crime. Where is the prez condemning the hate crime by a black man selectively killing white Christians?

Apparently he was posting it on social media in advance and being egged on.

As long as there are easy targets and people willing to be victims, there will be victims.

It’s time to wake up, man up, and men to accept the responsibility for defending themselves, their families, neighbors and country.

No one will do a better job of protecting you or your family than you.


Muslim Attacks in US.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm


Date Country City/State Killed Injured Description
4/14/1972 USA New York, NY 1 3 Ten members of a local mosque phone in a false alarm and then ambush responding officers, killing one.
1/19/1973 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 1 Muslim extremists rob a sporting goods store for weapons, gunning down a police officer who responds to the alarm.
7/1/1973 USA Bethesda, MD 1 0 An Israeli diplomat is gunned down in his driveway by Palestinian terrorists.
7/18/1973 USA Washington, DC 8 2 Nation of Islam members shoot seven members of a family to death in cold blood, including four children. A defendant in the case is later murdered in prison on orders from Elijah Muhammad.
10/19/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 Nation of Islam terrorists kidnap a couple and nearly decapitate the man, while raping and leaving the woman for dead.
10/29/1973 USA Berkeley, CA 1 0 A woman is shot repeatedly in the face by Nation of Islam terrorists.
11/25/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A grocer is killed in his store by Nation of Islam terrorists.
12/11/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is killed by Nation of Islam terrorists while using a phone booth.
12/13/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A woman is shot to death on the sidewalk by Nation of Islam terrorists.
12/20/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 Nation of Islam terrorists gun down an 81-year-old janitor.
12/22/1973 USA Oakland, CA 2 0 Nation of Islam terrorist kills two people in separate attacks on the same day.
12/24/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is kidnapped, tortured and decapitated by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1/24/1974 USA Oakland, CA 4 1 Five vicious shooting attacks by Nation of Islam terrorists leave three people dead and one paralyzed for life. Three of the victims were women.
4/1/1974 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 A Nation of Islam terrorist shoots at two Salvation Army members, killing a man and injuring a woman.
4/16/1974 USA Ingleside, CA 1 0 A man is killed while helping a friend move by Nation of Islam terrorists.
3/9/1977 USA Washington, DC 1 1 Hanifi Muslims storm three buildings including a B'nai B'rith to hold 134 people hostage. At least two innocents were shot and one died.
7/22/1980 USA Bethesda, MD 1 0 A political dissident is shot and killed in front of his home by an Iranian agent who was an American convert to Islam.
8/31/1980 USA Savou, IL 2 0 An Iranian student guns down his next-door neighbors, a husband and wife.
11/6/1989 USA St. Louis, MO 1 0 A 17-year-old girl is stabbed to death by her parents for bringing 'dishonor' to their family by dating an 'infidel' African-American.
1/31/1990 USA Tuscon, AZ 1 0 A Sunni cleric is assassinated in front of a Tuscon mosque after declaring that two verses of the Qur'an were invalid.
11/5/1990 USA New York City, NY 1 0 An Israeli rabbi is shot to death by a Muslim attacker at a hotel.
1/25/1993 USA Langley, VA 2 3 A Pakistani with Mujahideen ties guns down two CIA agents outside of the headquarters.
2/26/1993 USA New York, NY 6 1040 Islamic terrorists detonate a massive truck bomb under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring over 1,000 in an effort to collapse the towers.
3/1/1994 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 0 A Muslim gunman targets a van packed with Jewish boys, killing a 16-year-old.
3/23/1997 USA New York, NY 1 6 A Palestinian leaves an anti-Jewish suicide note behind and travels to the top of the Empire State building where he shoot seven people in a Fedayeen attack.
4/3/1997 USA Lompoc, CA 1 0 A prison guard is stabbed to death by a radical Muslim.
3/17/2000 USA Atlanta, GA 1 1 A local imam and Muslim spiritual leader guns down a deputy sheriff and injures his partner.
9/11/2001 USA Shanksville, PA 40 0 Forty passengers are killed after Islamic radicals hijack the plane in an attempt to steer it into the U.S. Capitol building.
9/11/2001 USA Washington, DC 184 53 Nearly 200 people are killed when Islamic hijackers steer a plane full of people into the Pentagon.
9/11/2001 USA New York, NY 2752 251 Islamic hijackers steer two planes packed with fuel and passengers into the World Trade Center, killing hundreds on impact and eventually killing thousands when the towers collapsed. At least 200 are seriously injured.
3/19/2002 USA Tuscon, AZ 1 0 A 60-year-old man is gunned down by Muslim snipers on a golf course.
5/27/2002 USA Denton, TX 1 0 Muslim snipers kill a man as he works in his yard.
7/4/2002 USA Los Angeles, CA 2 0 Muslim man pulls out a gun at the counter of an Israeli airline and kills two people.
9/5/2002 USA Clinton, MD 1 0 A 55-year-old pizzaria owner is shot six times in the back by Muslims at close range.
9/21/2002 USA Montgomery, AL 1 1 Muslim snipers shoot two women, killing one.
9/23/2002 USA Baton Rouge, LA 1 0 A Korean mother is shot in the back by Muslim snipers.
10/2/2002 USA Wheaton, MD 1 0 Muslim snipers gun down a program analyst in a store parking lot.
10/3/2002 USA Montgomery County, MD 5 0 Muslim snipers kill three men and two women in separate attacks over a 15-hour period.
10/9/2002 USA Manassas, VA 1 1 A man is killed by Muslim snipers while pumping gas two days after a 13-year-old is wounded by the same team.
10/11/2002 USA Fredericksburg, VA 1 0 Another man is killed by Muslim snipers while pumping gas.
10/14/2002 USA Arlington, VA 1 0 A woman is killed by Muslim snipers in a Home Depot parking lot.
10/22/2002 USA Aspen Hill, MD 1 0 A bus driver is killed by Muslim snipers.
8/6/2003 USA Houston, TX 1 0 After undergoing a 'religious revival', a Saudi college student slashes the throat of a Jewish student with a 4" butterfly knife, nearly decapitating the young man.
12/2/2003 USA Chicago, IL 1 0 A Muslim doctor deliberately allows a Jewish patient to die from an easily treatable condition.
4/13/2004 USA Raleigh, NC 1 4 An angry Muslim runs down five strangers with a car.
4/15/2004 USA Scottsville, NY 1 2 In an honor killing, a Muslim father kills his wife and attacks his two daughters with a knife and hammer because he feared that they had been sexually molested.
6/16/2006 USA Baltimore, MD 1 0 A 62-year-old Jewish moviegoer is shot to death by a Muslim medical student in an unprovoked terror attack.
6/25/2006 USA Denver, CO 1 5 Saying that it was 'Allah's choice', a Muslim shoots four of his co-workers and a police officer.
7/28/2006 USA Seattle, WA 1 5 An 'angry' Muslim-American uses a young girl as hostage to enter a local Jewish center, where he shoots six women, one of whom dies.
1/1/2008 USA Irving, TX 2 0 A Muslim immigrant shoots his two daughters to death on concerns about their 'Western' lifestyle.
7/6/2008 USA Jonesboro, GA 1 0 A devout Muslim strangles his 25-year-old daughter in an honor killing.
2/12/2009 USA Buffalo, NY 1 0 The founder of a Muslim TV station beheads his wife in the hallway for seeking a divorce.
4/12/2009 USA Phoenix, AZ 2 0 A man shoots his brother-in-law and another man to death after finding out that they visited a strip club, in contradiction to Islamic values.
6/1/2009 USA Little Rock, AR 1 1 A Muslim shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center explicitly in the name of Allah.
11/2/2009 USA Glendale, AZ 1 1 A woman dies from injuries suffered when her father runs her down with a car for being too 'Westernized.' (10-20-09)
11/5/2009 USA Ft. Hood, TX 13 31 A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers while yelling praises to Allah.
12/4/2009 USA Binghamton, NY 1 0 A non-Muslim Islamic studies professor is stabbed to death by a Muslim grad student in revenge for 'persecuted' Muslims.
4/14/2010 USA Marquette Park, IL 5 2 After quarrelling with his wife over Islamic dress, a Muslim convert shoots his family members to 'take them back to Allah' and out of the 'world of sinners'.
4/30/2011 USA Warren, MI 1 0 A 20-year-old woman is shot in the head by her stepfather for not adhering to Islamic practices.
9/11/2011 USA Waltham, MA 3 0 Three Jewish men have their throats slashed by Muslim terrorists.
1/15/2012 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 30-year-old Christian convert is shot to death by a devout Muslim for helping to convert his daughter.
11/12/2012 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 28-year-old American man is shot to death by a conservative Muslim over an alleged role in converting a woman to Christianity.
2/7/2013 USA Buena Vista, NJ 2 0 A Muslim targets and beheads two Christian Coptic immigrants.
3/24/2013 USA Ashtabula, OH 1 0 A Muslim convert walks into a church service with a Quran and guns down his Christian father while praising Allah.
4/15/2013 USA Boston, MA 3 264 Foreign-born Muslims describing themselves as 'very religious' detonate two bombs packed with ball bearings at the Boston Marathon, killing three people and causing several more to lose limbs.
4/19/2013 USA Boston, MA 1 1 Jihadists gun down a university police officer sitting in his car.
8/4/2013 USA Richmond, CA 1 0 A convert "on a mission from Allah" stabs a store clerk to death.
3/6/2014 USA Port Bolivar, TX 2 0 A Muslim man shoots his lesbian daughter and her lover to death and leaves a copy of the Quran open to a page condemning homosexuality.
4/27/2014 USA Skyway, WA 1 0 A 30-year-old man is murdered by a Muslim fanatic.
6/1/2014 USA Seattle, WA 2 0 Two homosexuals are murdered by an Islamic extremist.
6/25/2014 USA West Orange, NJ 1 0 A 19-year-old college student is shot to death 'in revenge' for Muslim deaths overseas.
9/25/2014 USA Moore, OK 1 1 A Sharia advocate beheads a woman after calling for Islamic terror and posting an Islamist beheading photo.
7/16/2015 USA Chattanooga 5 2 A 'devout Muslim' stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center which leaves five dead.

Top

Here's another one, Eric...happened in Australia, where the gun control measures are in effect, I believe.

Multiple hots fired outside police HP on Charles Street (Australia)



More at the link.

Eric308 - in consideration of your posts, folks here actually are being rather civil and somewhat even-handed with you as compared with others who say and post similar positions. You seem to be reasonably literate, so maybe they are simply trying to give you a decent chance intelligently to explain and defend a position that makes little or no sense to folks who have thought it all through - at length. Then again, maybe they are stringing you out as an example of the nonsense and ulterior agendas afoot when it comes to possession of firearms.

Either way, you have a compelling opportunity to prove that there is a brain and conscience behind your comments. You seem to be victim to your tag line: "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"

Here is your moment to show that you are not the noted anti-intellectual and not simply a gross tool-troll. There seems to be a decent chance that you could become a well-remembered jerk on here, so you might want to rev up your "A" game. Eh?

Nothing more than this needs to be said: the difference between a subject and a citizen is the means of one to defend himself against squirrels, and the other against an oppressive gov't. Period.

The FFs knew that, so they included it in the BOR.

You don't mind bending over and taking it from Obama, Boehner, and any other tyrants and that's fine, but just remember the 2A has NOTHING to do with hunting.

This right here explains the failure of the liberal agenda on gun control.

Eric308, you're on the right track. But I have come up with a better approach:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10508616/Re:_What_needs_to_change?#Post10508616

I posted it here knowing that the far right guns nuts would respond with insults and all the usual excuses to do nothing. Doing nothing isn't working.

But trolling is?

Do nothing? For decades this country has been progressively restricting access to firearms etc. Has this approach gotten us any closer to your utopia regarding shootings, etc?

Take a moment, drop your preconceived notions and feelings, and actually reason through this subject.

As I mentioned before, Paddler only shows up here when something like this happens.
Last post prior to yesterday was 2011.
He's not here to be a part of the board so he must be working a liberal agenda.

So Paddler,

Are you one of Eric's sock puppets, or do you and he work for the same leftist organization as trolls. It's interesting that you haven't posted in 4 years but chose today to come out of the wood work.

Can you refute ANY of the evidence posted above


I stated where to start, and that is to hold these institutions who do not put serious money and effort in to security, yet graciously take individuals rights to defend themselves away from them. Legally and criminally liable

So the liberal premise is, the bad guy is going to obey gun laws and only get a gun legally. If he can't get one legally, he's not going to commit mass murder in a target rich environment, like a school. Most of which are gun free zones. Because lord knows he doesn't want to break any laws.

The magazine capacity laws are hogwash. They do absolutely nothing to curtail crime.

Think about the absolute insanity of your liberal mind before you answer.


Clyde

Paddler, the only insult to you here was made by you with your "better approach" reasoning, which went like this:

I think we should classify all centerfire, semiautomatic weapons that accept detachable magazines as Class 3 weapons. Here's my reasoning. The forementioned weapons are as or more lethal in a school shooting situation as fully automatic weapons. More so, because the shooter can't waste ammo as you can in full auto. This reclassification will not include 22 rimfires, - -

but it seems to have a lot of holes in it. One is that you focus on school situations for your rationale (mass shootings happen on military bases, in movie theaters and shopping malls to name a few) and yours is a rationale that does not hold water anyway. Here's another hole. Would you care to analyze the firearms used in this Oregon campus shooting and explain how enacting your "proposal" would have inhibited the shooter there?
Then, there is the matter of freedom-loving firearms owners needing to deal with liberal idiots and rotten politicians - one aspect of which sometimes is overcoming useless proposals by attention seeking tool-trolls.

Yep, they will obey the laws. Just like they obey the laws against murder.

Take them away from Americans and give them to Mexican drug cartels, muslim militants in Iraq, Syria, and who knows where else. Then, lift the arms embargo on the Iranians and give them a $150 billion to go shopping for arms. Eric, can you please explain the logic behind those decisions?