Investigators plan to release the video of the 10/14 shooting of the kid on dust with a knife and the officer that killed him
Don't know if its a wise move when all the citizens will be off work *cough* for the holiday, they may have more time to get it on....
Quote
A white Chicago police officer was charged Tuesday with murder in the 2014 fatal shooting of a black teenager, as the city prepares to release a squad-car video of the incident amid concerns that it will spark protests.
The state's attorney's office said in a news release that Jason Van Dyke, who shot 17-year-old Laquan McDonald 16 times on Oct. 20, 2014, has been charged with first degree murder.
The judge in the case had ruled that the video, described by some as graphic and deeply disturbing, must be made public by Wednesday -- but sources told the New York Times that its release could come as early as Tuesday afternoon.
“In accordance with the judge’s ruling, the city will release the video by Nov. 25, which we hope will provide prosecutors time to expeditiously bring their investigation to a conclusion so Chicago can begin to heal,” Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel said last week, according to the newspaper.
People who have seen the video told The Associated Press that it shows McDonald armed with a small knife and walking away from officers. Van Dyke opens fire from about 15 feet and keeps shooting after the teen falls to the ground.
Police say McDonald, who was found with PCP in his system at the time of his death, was behaving erratically and was refusing to listen to police commands to drop the knife, the Chicago Tribune reports.
An autopsy says McDonald was shot at least twice in the back. Dan Herbert, a lawyer for Officer Van Dyke, said the 14-year police veteran believed the shooting was justified because he feared for his safety, the New York Times reported.
Fox 32 reported that some investigators were brought to the point of tears after seeing the video.
Illinois Gov. Bruce Rauner said state police are working with Chicago officials to ensure people remain safe following the release of the video.
Rauner said the video is "very troubling" and that he expects public reaction to be "strong." But he said he hopes and believes the response will be "thoughtful and peaceful."
He declined to say whether he's deployed additional troopers to Chicago or put the Illinois National Guard on standby.
"This officer didn't uphold the law, he took the law into his own hands," Emanuel said, adding that he had not seen the video. "[He] didn't build the trust that we would want to see, and wasn't about providing safety and security, so at every point he violated what we entrusted him.”
Ministers, community leaders and others worry the images could lead to the kind of unrest seen in Baltimore and Ferguson, Missouri, after police-involved deaths. Emanuel called together a number of community leaders Monday to appeal for help in keeping the city calm.
But some said after the meeting that city officials waited too long to get them involved -- more than a year after McDonald was shot.
"You had this tape for a year and you are only talking to us now because you need our help keeping things calm," one of the ministers, Corey Brooks, said after the meeting.
A judge last week ordered the Police Department to release the squad car dashcam footage by Wednesday after the city refused to do so for several months, saying the investigations into the shooting weren't complete. The FBI and the Cook County State's Attorney's Office are investigating.
Ira Acree, who described the meeting with Emanuel as "very tense, very contentious," said the mayor expressed concerns about the prospect of any demonstrations getting out of control.
Another minister who attended, Jedidiah Brown, said emotions were running so high that there would be no stopping major protests once the video is released.
Earlier Monday, Emanuel's office characterized the discussion as something "we regularly do on important topics." But Acree and another minister, Marshall Hatch, said it is a rare occurrence.
"We have been trying to meet with the mayor since the beginning of the year to talk about community relations and his staff asks for a letter and says, `We'll get back to you,' but they never do," Acree said before going to City Hall for the discussion.
Hatch added: "This has the feeling of them scrambling."
Acree and Hatch said blacks in the city are upset about the shooting and because city officials and the Police Department refused for several months to release the video until ordered to do so by a judge. They said people also are angry because the officer, though stripped of his police powers, has been assigned to desk duty and not fired.
"They had the opportunity to be a good example and a model across the country on how to improve police and community relations and they missed it," Acree said.
The Police Department said placing an officer on desk duty after a shooting is standard procedure and that it is prohibited from doing anything more during the investigations.
Let them burn it.. never liked Chitcago anyway.. Don't worry the [bleep] in chief will spend billions rebuilding it so that his sons can turn it into a 3rd world city again..
I wonder how accurate the article is. If it's correct, the cop deserves to hang. It doesn't take 16 bullet holes to disarm someone with a knife, especially when his back is turned and he's walking away.
I wonder what would happen in the White House or in a Federal Courtroom if somebody refused to drop a deadly weapon when ordered to do so by by a Marshall or Secret Service agent?
I understand that Sheitavious was high on PCP while committing a crime.. Thank you officer for putting down that dawgthug. I will now wait for the doctored tape to show that Sheitavious DinduNuffin. Your tax dollars payin' for the DinduNuffin lottery
cold weather is not conducive to rioting, street marches, and fire-bombings. couldn't they have waited until the middle of may at the earliest for maximum impact?
cold weather is not conducive to rioting, street marches, and fire-bombings. couldn't they have waited until the middle of may at the earliest for maximum impact?
Usually July when Schitt really starts jumping off.
The number of shots does seem over the top. But the illustration I saw on TV this morning showed a lot of peripheral hits, probably a dozen missed or only hit arms or edges of his body.
Yes. Tomorrow and the ensuing days might be very interesting in Chicago.
It was a good shoot, or not. His marksmanship might of sucked, may have taken a while to stop the threat, if there was one.
Number of shots matter if many of them came after he was down and incapacitated or surrendering. It's one thing to stop a threat, it's another thing totally to execute somebody.
Which is presumably why there is a first degree murder charge being pursued against the officer.
Now saying that.. I obviously haven't seen the video and don't know hardly anything about the case. If the cop is bad, I hope he ends up sharing a cell with the biggest guy he ever put away. If he's not, I hope he walks away. It's up to the jury now who will get to see all admissable facts.
Oh, and if the other cops on the scene didn't put down the truth on their reports I hope they nailed as well.
It was a good shoot, or not. His marksmanship might of sucked, may have taken a while to stop the threat, if there was one.
Number of shots matter if many of them came after he was down and incapacitated or surrendering. It's one thing to stop a threat, it's another thing totally to execute somebody.
Begs the question, inside 21 feet armed with a knife, which side will have the best experts to testify about the amount of danger the officers were in?
Dash cams and body cams will be a double edged sword. The problem here, in my opinion is that the judge demanded its release to the public before a criminal trial.
Now is Mpls, the state and federal investigative teams have said they will not release the video which shows whether or not the perp is wearing handcuffs before he was shot. Stay tuned......
What you must be aware of is a black and white silent video doesn't tell the entire story in a questionable incident. Not making any suggestions on the incident in Chicago.
A righteous shoot ! This was the cops own dash cam. You could see the thug as he was coming near the other two cops with guns drawn that Sheitavious had a weapon in his right hand. We know now that it was a knife. The cop must have taken it for a gun and opened fire to protect his fellow officers!!! Sheitavious by not stopping and raising his hands to surrender and brandishing "something" in his right hand that only the cop that shot him could see, left Van Dyke no choice but to put down the threat!! Righteous use of deadly force in my opinion and if serving on this jury would vote to acquit.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If the idiots would quit doing drugs, robbing people etc, and start obeying the laws, they wouldn't be put in these situations. SIMPLE AS THAT!
Just watched the video on Foxnews. The kid was just walking by, maybe no closer than 5 yards. He actually moved across a traffic lane away from the cop before the shooting started. I couldn't see that he did anything whatever to provoke the cop. The cop just pointed a gun at him and started shooting. Apparently the kid had a knife but he didn't brandish it at all. I didn't see him do anything threatening. VIDEO
What you must be aware of is a black and white silent video doesn't tell the entire story in a questionable incident. Not making any suggestions on the incident in Chicago.
The video speaks for itself. I'd love to meet the lawyer that could argue his way out of that conviction. There's absolutely no justification for killing that guy.
I wonder how accurate the article is. If it's correct, the cop deserves to hang. It doesn't take 16 bullet holes to disarm someone with a knife, especially when his back is turned and he's walking away.
Truly brilliant. This type of uneducated response is why I (more often than not)tend to not be involved in such threads.
It is interesting how those with absolutely no experience in a subject matter tend to be the ones to speak in absolutes.
Here are a couple of hints:
Either lethal force is justified, or it is not.
One bullet or 20, the criteria is still the same.
Were all of the entry wounds on the back?
Was he going towards another person, while he was attempting to get away from the other officer?
Is a person high on PCP and armed with an edged weapon a threat to the public?
Using your logic, how many holes does it take to "disarm" someone with a knife"
If the cop did not shoot this guy and he carved up a few innocent citizens/cops, then mouth breathers would be saying
"Why didn't he shoot him? He should be hanged for not shooting him!"
For those not familiar with PCP.
Users of this drug are very well known for committing extremely extremely gruesome violent crimes.
Police and ER/first responders who are familiar with the bizarre, unpredictable and violent behavior of some PCP users, almost always bring up that the person had "super human" strength. This is not exactly true physiologically, but has to do with the fact that the user cannot feel pain like people not under its influence.
Due to the effects of the drug, PCP users almost always fail to comply with orders and become HIGHLY aggressive/combative.
There have been reports from officers about PCP users actually BREAKING metal handcuffs.
There have also been reports of users breaking their own bones during struggles, or punching solid objects. They literally break their own bones, and do not feel this until effects begin to subside.
When a person whacked out on angel dust/PCP is not feeling pain like a normal human being, guess how they are going to react to getting shot?
Unless you make a solid CNS hit, dumping a bunch of hits into a PCP monster may not slow him down for a while.
There have been plenty of incidents where people NOT under the influence of anything take multiple hits and continue to fight/shoot/stab, etc.
How much damage do you think a person can do, armed with a knife, not feeling pain in the traditional sense, and wildly hallucinating?
Whether it is 30 seconds or 1 minute, that person can kill or maim a whole lot of people.
But hey, lets just hang the cop! Genius..
Of course the "Hang him" comment is coming from the guy who vouched for his neighbor (the child rapist Robert Williams) as a "stand up church going guy".
The one who took in a vulnerable foster child, knowing she had been sexually abused brutally at her last foster home, therefore was already groomed for deviant sexual behavior.
Then he used the little girl as his own sex toy,forcing the child to have sex with dogs while he watched and masturbated, before raping her repeatedly.
As I recall Rock Chuck, you blamed the child for all of this, since your buddy was such an upstanding church goer.
Never mind the hundreds of bestiality and child porn videos taken from the house, not to mention confessions.
Of course Robert Williams claimed it was the little girls fault. He ended up getting a sweet heart deal, with many charges dropped. 20 years to life.
But hey, lets hang the cop for stopping a guy whacked out on PCP and armed with a knife, because the number of rounds offends some people (who have ZERO experience, yet feel qualified to tell cops how to do their job).
That video tells NOTHING of what happened for the considerable amount of time that the officers were engaged with the suspect prior to the arrival of the guy with the dash cam.
One hell of a lot of stuff can happen in 5 minutes, prior to this cop arriving.
I swear this place is as bad as the Democratic Underground for lack of critical thinking skills, on the part of some posters.
The logic applied is like saying:
"from now on Marines, we are going to be issuing Thompson Contender single shot pistols for you to engage suicide bombers with, because until they blow themselves up with the bomb strapped to their chests, they are innocent, and shooting them with machine guns is offensive! Nobody should use 16 rounds on a suicide bomber!"
At least the Chicagroes aren't burning down the place yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they do that tomorrow, but as of now, they ARE behaving themselves.
That video tells NOTHING of what happened for the considerable amount of time that the officers were engaged with the suspect prior to the arrival of the guy with the dash cam.
One hell of a lot of stuff can happen in 5 minutes, prior to this cop arriving.
I swear this place is as bad as the Democratic Underground for lack of critical thinking skills, on the part of some posters.
I know the guy got a 4 car response. That's unusual, unless he was a total moonbat.
If the entire video was meant to show the response from call for assistance til terminal event, then given the lights didn't activate for the 1st few minutes, there must have been an escalation in events.
I know that bystanders in the area were directing police to the running subject, inferring that they felt compelled to give assistance to the police.
I'm deducing the guy was about 4-5 yards from an officer when he was shot. That's too close with a knife, based on personal experience. Way too close if he was thought to be drawing a gun.
I cannot tell if the motion he made to the officers was prior to the shooting or after the shooting started. The sound sucks.
I know it takes more than one shot to bring down coke heads...
Did he fire 16 rounds, or as pat said, were there multiple entry exit shots to the arm? Some of the shots plainly missed based on the concrete mushroom clouds.
Would like to see the police reports and witness statements.
The Cop was on scene 5-6 seconds before he opened fire. The kid had a small pocket knife, 3", that wasn't opened. The last 13 months has been spent trying to cover it up and sweep it under the rug. It could no longer.
I doubt that SOME of the CCC [campfire cop contingent] would be satisfied if every LEO, upon recieving his certificate, were issued a license to kill two human beings per year with no consequences to themselves.
They would still insist on a medal, more than likely.
I doubt that SOME of the CCC [campfire cop contingent] would be satisfied if every LEO, upon recieving his certificate, were issued a license to kill two human beings per year with no consequences to themselves.
They would still insist on a medal, more than likely.
I doubt that SOME of the CCC [campfire cop contingent] would be satisfied if every LEO, upon recieving his certificate, were issued a license to kill two human beings per year with no consequences to themselves.
They would still insist on a medal, more than likely.
WTF? I get FIVE deer tags.
I'm allowed to comment since I know something about deer.
I've always THOUGHT I knew a little about when it's OK to kill somebody, but apparently not on this forum.
The Cop was on scene 5-6 seconds before he opened fire. The kid had a small pocket knife, 3", that wasn't opened. The last 13 months has been spent trying to cover it up and sweep it under the rug. It could no longer.
If that kid was strung out like that on my high school campus with no visible weapon he woulda prob'ly been tackled from behind.
But, like M. Sagebrush said, we don't know what had transpired previously.
The Cop was on scene 5-6 seconds before he opened fire. The kid had a small pocket knife, 3", that wasn't opened. The last 13 months has been spent trying to cover it up and sweep it under the rug. It could no longer.
If that kid was strung out like that on my high school campus with no visible weapon he woulda prob'ly been tackled from behind.
But, like M. Sagebrush said, we don't know what had transpired previously.
Birdwatcher
Yep.
The video is only a portion of the entire event.
I'll say this... Everyone was pretty excited for some reason.
I haven't watched the video and don't plan to. From what I've read the cop was in the wrong. I have a question though: is it routine to release what is in effect courtroom evidence just to try to avoid rioting in the streets? Does this happen when a cop is in the right?
I wonder how accurate the article is. If it's correct, the cop deserves to hang. It doesn't take 16 bullet holes to disarm someone with a knife, especially when his back is turned and he's walking away.
Truly brilliant. This type of uneducated response is why I (more often than not)tend to not be involved in such threads.
It is interesting how those with absolutely no experience in a subject matter tend to be the ones to speak in absolutes.
Here are a couple of hints:
Either lethal force is justified, or it is not.
One bullet or 20, the criteria is still the same.
Were all of the entry wounds on the back?
Was he going towards another person, while he was attempting to get away from the other officer?
Is a person high on PCP and armed with an edged weapon a threat to the public?
Using your logic, how many holes does it take to "disarm" someone with a knife"
If the cop did not shoot this guy and he carved up a few innocent citizens/cops, then mouth breathers would be saying
"Why didn't he shoot him? He should be hanged for not shooting him!"
For those not familiar with PCP.
Users of this drug are very well known for committing extremely extremely gruesome violent crimes.
Police and ER/first responders who are familiar with the bizarre, unpredictable and violent behavior of some PCP users, almost always bring up that the person had "super human" strength. This is not exactly true physiologically, but has to do with the fact that the user cannot feel pain like people not under its influence.
Due to the effects of the drug, PCP users almost always fail to comply with orders and become HIGHLY aggressive/combative.
There have been reports from officers about PCP users actually BREAKING metal handcuffs.
There have also been reports of users breaking their own bones during struggles, or punching solid objects. They literally break their own bones, and do not feel this until effects begin to subside.
When a person whacked out on angel dust/PCP is not feeling pain like a normal human being, guess how they are going to react to getting shot?
Unless you make a solid CNS hit, dumping a bunch of hits into a PCP monster may not slow him down for a while.
There have been plenty of incidents where people NOT under the influence of anything take multiple hits and continue to fight/shoot/stab, etc.
How much damage do you think a person can do, armed with a knife, not feeling pain in the traditional sense, and wildly hallucinating?
Whether it is 30 seconds or 1 minute, that person can kill or maim a whole lot of people.
But hey, lets just hang the cop! Genius..
Of course the "Hang him" comment is coming from the guy who vouched for his neighbor (the child rapist Robert Williams) as a "stand up church going guy".
The one who took in a vulnerable foster child, knowing she had been sexually abused brutally at her last foster home, therefore was already groomed for deviant sexual behavior.
Then he used the little girl as his own sex toy,forcing the child to have sex with dogs while he watched and masturbated, before raping her repeatedly.
As I recall Rock Chuck, you blamed the child for all of this, since your buddy was such an upstanding church goer.
Never mind the hundreds of bestiality and child porn videos taken from the house, not to mention confessions.
Of course Robert Williams claimed it was the little girls fault. He ended up getting a sweet heart deal, with many charges dropped. 20 years to life.
But hey, lets hang the cop for stopping a guy whacked out on PCP and armed with a knife, because the number of rounds offends some people (who have ZERO experience, yet feel qualified to tell cops how to do their job).
Now that you've shot off your mouth about my neighbor, having no information on what happened...the girl was moved to another foster home where she then accused another foster father of the same thing. Last I heard, she was in a mental hospital in north Idaho. She also recanted many of her accusations. Williams got 20 years but it was for child porn on his computer. It never went to court as he bargained it to 20 to life, if you can call that a bargain. My info is from his wife since I have no access to the court records.
Now that you've shot off your mouth about my neighbor, having no information on what happened...the girl was moved to another foster home where she then accused another foster father of the same thing. Last I heard, she was in a mental hospital in north Idaho. She also recanted many of her accusations. Williams got 20 years but it was for child porn on his computer. It never went to court as he bargained it to 20 to life, if you can call that a bargain. My info is from his wife since I have no access to the court records.
At least the Chicagroes aren't burning down the place yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they do that tomorrow, but as of now, they ARE behaving themselves.
Unlike Ferguson MO, no fighting yet.
The "reverend" and travelling protesters for hire haven't arrived yet.
You guys need to watch the video. The kid appeared to be a bystander. The cops weren't there for anything he did. As the car with the camera approaches, its lights show the kid running down the middle of the street TOWARD the action, like he was running to see what was going on. As he got to them, he moved a traffic lane to the right, well away from the cops. He never got near them. As he passed, the shooter shot him. You can tell that he has something in his hand but he never brandishes it. It's always down at his side. The video doesn't show anything threatening that he did.
You guys need to watch the video. The kid appeared to be a bystander. The cops weren't there for anything he did. As the car with the camera approaches, its lights show the kid running down the middle of the street TOWARD the action, like he was running to see what was going on. As he got to them, he moved a traffic lane to the right, well away from the cops. He never got near them. As he passed, the shooter shot him. You can tell that he has something in his hand but he never brandishes it. It's always down at his side. The video doesn't show anything threatening that he did.
Dont worry they will get around to you. When martial law is finally declared the police will be even less forgiving.
If I'm ever in a major city & find myself in the middle of a "peacefull protest".... have a knife in my hand & am ordered to drop it by LE, you can bet your ass that I'll comply. It's kinda funny that 25 can be killed in one weekend & there's no public outcry...in fact if a witness comes forward with information on who the perps are, he or she is labeled as a "snitch" & will probably become a target themselves...crazy chit if you ask me.
What you must be aware of is a black and white silent video doesn't tell the entire story in a questionable incident. Not making any suggestions on the incident in Chicago.
The video speaks for itself. I'd love to meet the lawyer that could argue his way out of that conviction. There's absolutely no justification for killing that guy.
What would a reasonable officers perception of the situation be based on the totality of circumstances surrounding the encounter.
This is what will be presented to, and weighed by the jury.
Like any good campfire member, I'm gonna post an opinion without reading the rest of the thread....
Why is it OK for the nogs in chicago to kill each other by the dozens each weekend, but one 'outsider' gets involved and they use it as yet another excuse to riot.....errrrr I mean 'protest'.....
In the 'outsiders' case there is at least a question as to whether the shooting was justified...in the case of the indigenous people, even when they openly murder children, the question never comes up.
Like any good campfire member, I'm gonna post an opinion without reading the rest of the thread....
Why is it OK for the nogs in chicago to kill each other by the dozens each weekend, but one 'outsider' gets involved and they use it as yet another excuse to riot.....errrrr I mean 'protest'.....
In the 'outsiders' case there is at least a question as to whether the shooting was justified...in the case of the indigenous people, even when they openly murder children, the question never comes up.
Gotta love a double standard...
That irony of that double standard is that it proves exactly what it is meant to disprove. The "indigenous people" are expected to behave in a savage, warlike manner, while such behavior by others is considered an anomaly.
Coppers on here, could this possibly have been a case for escalating force? Less lethal, beanbag, rubber bullets etc first? Could this be the reason the murder charges were filed?
Liberal hypocrisy knows no bounds. Cops facing a deadly threat must make an instant life and death decision with perfect, hindsight judgment but when there is even a perceived threat against our Washington DC overlords, no matter how slight, the media and libs are perfectly fine with gunning down a disturbed young mother driving erratically with her baby in a car. In fact, I seem to recall Harry Reed and others publicly congratulating the shooters for a job well done. By the way, the woman killed was black but I guess her life didn't matter.
Both houses of Congress came back later in the day and offered thanks to the Capitol Police. The House gave officers a standing ovation. Senate staffers were distributing small black buttons reading “THANK YOU, CAPITOL POLICE” with a picture of the Capitol Dome.
Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) said he had called the injured Capitol Police officer, and the officer said he would be fine. Reid added that the officer said, “The only thing I do every day is to make sure you and everyone who works up here is safe.”
I wonder how accurate the article is. If it's correct, the cop deserves to hang. It doesn't take 16 bullet holes to disarm someone with a knife, especially when his back is turned and he's walking away.
Truly brilliant. This type of uneducated response is why I (more often than not)tend to not be involved in such threads.
It is interesting how those with absolutely no experience in a subject matter tend to be the ones to speak in absolutes.
Here are a couple of hints:
Either lethal force is justified, or it is not.
One bullet or 20, the criteria is still the same.
Were all of the entry wounds on the back?
Was he going towards another person, while he was attempting to get away from the other officer?
Is a person high on PCP and armed with an edged weapon a threat to the public?
Using your logic, how many holes does it take to "disarm" someone with a knife"
If the cop did not shoot this guy and he carved up a few innocent citizens/cops, then mouth breathers would be saying
"Why didn't he shoot him? He should be hanged for not shooting him!"
For those not familiar with PCP.
Users of this drug are very well known for committing extremely extremely gruesome violent crimes.
Police and ER/first responders who are familiar with the bizarre, unpredictable and violent behavior of some PCP users, almost always bring up that the person had "super human" strength. This is not exactly true physiologically, but has to do with the fact that the user cannot feel pain like people not under its influence.
Due to the effects of the drug, PCP users almost always fail to comply with orders and become HIGHLY aggressive/combative.
There have been reports from officers about PCP users actually BREAKING metal handcuffs.
There have also been reports of users breaking their own bones during struggles, or punching solid objects. They literally break their own bones, and do not feel this until effects begin to subside.
When a person whacked out on angel dust/PCP is not feeling pain like a normal human being, guess how they are going to react to getting shot?
Unless you make a solid CNS hit, dumping a bunch of hits into a PCP monster may not slow him down for a while.
There have been plenty of incidents where people NOT under the influence of anything take multiple hits and continue to fight/shoot/stab, etc.
How much damage do you think a person can do, armed with a knife, not feeling pain in the traditional sense, and wildly hallucinating?
Whether it is 30 seconds or 1 minute, that person can kill or maim a whole lot of people.
But hey, lets just hang the cop! Genius..
Of course the "Hang him" comment is coming from the guy who vouched for his neighbor (the child rapist Robert Williams) as a "stand up church going guy".
The one who took in a vulnerable foster child, knowing she had been sexually abused brutally at her last foster home, therefore was already groomed for deviant sexual behavior.
Then he used the little girl as his own sex toy,forcing the child to have sex with dogs while he watched and masturbated, before raping her repeatedly.
As I recall Rock Chuck, you blamed the child for all of this, since your buddy was such an upstanding church goer.
Never mind the hundreds of bestiality and child porn videos taken from the house, not to mention confessions.
Of course Robert Williams claimed it was the little girls fault. He ended up getting a sweet heart deal, with many charges dropped. 20 years to life.
But hey, lets hang the cop for stopping a guy whacked out on PCP and armed with a knife, because the number of rounds offends some people (who have ZERO experience, yet feel qualified to tell cops how to do their job).
Now that you've shot off your mouth about my neighbor, having no information on what happened...the girl was moved to another foster home where she then accused another foster father of the same thing. Last I heard, she was in a mental hospital in north Idaho. She also recanted many of her accusations. Williams got 20 years but it was for child porn on his computer. It never went to court as he bargained it to 20 to life, if you can call that a bargain. My info is from his wife since I have no access to the court records.
Here is a CLUE.
I know Exactly what happened, and some memories and images cannot be simply erased from one's brain.
If you are getting info from the wife, you are seriously messed up. Do you honestly believe that she knew nothing? I won't go into details, but suffice to say that you are 180 degrees off the mark.
Here is another CLUE:
He bargained it down to "Just the Child Porn" on his computer.
When someone bargains something down, that means there is a bunch of other stuff involved, which is exactly the case here.
Have you ever stopped to consider that one of the reasons child rapists get stuff plead down is so that they do not have to re-victimize the victim by forcing them to relive the horrible things that happened by testifying in the courtroom.
And your info on the child is wrong as well. She does have serious mental health issues, that part is true, but so would any child that lived through that.
Maybe you should stop and reflect on it all. With some critical thinking, you may realize that in this case you are 100% wrong.
Coppers on here, could this possibly have been a case for escalating force? Less lethal, beanbag, rubber bullets etc first? Could this be the reason the murder charges were filed?
No cop or attorney can answer that because they don't know the details of the case.
Coppers on here, could this possibly have been a case for escalating force? Less lethal, beanbag, rubber bullets etc first? Could this be the reason the murder charges were filed?
No cop or attorney can answer that because they don't know the details of the case.
Travis
Curdog could, and he probably hasn't ever even been to Chicago,
So far we have the cops and cop suckups posting about child porn,women crashing into the Capital fence,and justifying fear of a kid with a 3 inch bladed pocketknife that's not even opened, and the kid is walking away.
It takes a cowardly loser to justify fearing for one's life in that situation, so I don't think that's the reason at all for this kid being shot.
You egomaniac under-achievers with a badge can't abide a GFY from a citizen subject when you are on duty.
AND THAT IS AT THE ROOT OF A MAJORITY OF EXCESSIVE FORCE CASES.
So far we have the cops and cop suckups posting about child porn,women crashing into the Capital fence,and justifying fear of a kid with a 3 inch bladed pocketknife that's not even opened, and the kid is walking away.
It takes a cowardly loser to justify fearing for one's life in that situation, so I don't think that's the reason at all for this kid being shot.
You egomaniac under-achievers with a badge can't abide a GFY from a citizen subject when you are on duty.
AND THAT IS AT THE ROOT OF A MAJORITY OF EXCESSIVE FORCE CASES.
The only person on this thread with an ego-manniacal personality is you
The point of the video being that a guy with only a knife can do a hell of a lot of damage in a hurry, even against multiple guys with guns. Don't know whether the guy in Chicago needed shooting or not, but those arguing the shooting wasn't' justified because he only had a knife do not have a valid argument.
I wonder how accurate the article is. If it's correct, the cop deserves to hang. It doesn't take 16 bullet holes to disarm someone with a knife, especially when his back is turned and he's walking away.
Truly brilliant. This type of uneducated response is why I (more often than not)tend to not be involved in such threads.
It is interesting how those with absolutely no experience in a subject matter tend to be the ones to speak in absolutes.
Here are a couple of hints:
Either lethal force is justified, or it is not.
One bullet or 20, the criteria is still the same.
Were all of the entry wounds on the back?
Was he going towards another person, while he was attempting to get away from the other officer?
Is a person high on PCP and armed with an edged weapon a threat to the public?
Using your logic, how many holes does it take to "disarm" someone with a knife"
If the cop did not shoot this guy and he carved up a few innocent citizens/cops, then mouth breathers would be saying
"Why didn't he shoot him? He should be hanged for not shooting him!"
For those not familiar with PCP.
Users of this drug are very well known for committing extremely extremely gruesome violent crimes.
Police and ER/first responders who are familiar with the bizarre, unpredictable and violent behavior of some PCP users, almost always bring up that the person had "super human" strength. This is not exactly true physiologically, but has to do with the fact that the user cannot feel pain like people not under its influence.
Due to the effects of the drug, PCP users almost always fail to comply with orders and become HIGHLY aggressive/combative.
There have been reports from officers about PCP users actually BREAKING metal handcuffs.
There have also been reports of users breaking their own bones during struggles, or punching solid objects. They literally break their own bones, and do not feel this until effects begin to subside.
When a person whacked out on angel dust/PCP is not feeling pain like a normal human being, guess how they are going to react to getting shot?
Unless you make a solid CNS hit, dumping a bunch of hits into a PCP monster may not slow him down for a while.
There have been plenty of incidents where people NOT under the influence of anything take multiple hits and continue to fight/shoot/stab, etc.
How much damage do you think a person can do, armed with a knife, not feeling pain in the traditional sense, and wildly hallucinating?
Whether it is 30 seconds or 1 minute, that person can kill or maim a whole lot of people.
But hey, lets just hang the cop! Genius..
Of course the "Hang him" comment is coming from the guy who vouched for his neighbor (the child rapist Robert Williams) as a "stand up church going guy".
The one who took in a vulnerable foster child, knowing she had been sexually abused brutally at her last foster home, therefore was already groomed for deviant sexual behavior.
Then he used the little girl as his own sex toy,forcing the child to have sex with dogs while he watched and masturbated, before raping her repeatedly.
As I recall Rock Chuck, you blamed the child for all of this, since your buddy was such an upstanding church goer.
Never mind the hundreds of bestiality and child porn videos taken from the house, not to mention confessions.
Of course Robert Williams claimed it was the little girls fault. He ended up getting a sweet heart deal, with many charges dropped. 20 years to life.
But hey, lets hang the cop for stopping a guy whacked out on PCP and armed with a knife, because the number of rounds offends some people (who have ZERO experience, yet feel qualified to tell cops how to do their job).
Now that you've shot off your mouth about my neighbor, having no information on what happened...the girl was moved to another foster home where she then accused another foster father of the same thing. Last I heard, she was in a mental hospital in north Idaho. She also recanted many of her accusations. Williams got 20 years but it was for child porn on his computer. It never went to court as he bargained it to 20 to life, if you can call that a bargain. My info is from his wife since I have no access to the court records.
Here is a CLUE.
I know Exactly what happened, and some memories and images cannot be simply erased from one's brain.
If you are getting info from the wife, you are seriously messed up. Do you honestly believe that she knew nothing? I won't go into details, but suffice to say that you are 180 degrees off the mark.
Here is another CLUE:
He bargained it down to "Just the Child Porn" on his computer.
When someone bargains something down, that means there is a bunch of other stuff involved, which is exactly the case here.
Have you ever stopped to consider that one of the reasons child rapists get stuff plead down is so that they do not have to re-victimize the victim by forcing them to relive the horrible things that happened by testifying in the courtroom.
And your info on the child is wrong as well. She does have serious mental health issues, that part is true, but so would any child that lived through that.
Maybe you should stop and reflect on it all. With some critical thinking, you may realize that in this case you are 100% wrong.
I have no idea what your problem is today. Why this unwarranted attack and your dragging in a totally unrelated case? What are you so mad about? I'll forgive your for your attack on me but you really need to do something about your anger before it gets you in trouble.
I have no idea what your problem is today. Why this unwarranted attack and your dragging in a totally unrelated case? What are you so mad about? I'll forgive your for your attack on me but you really need to do something about your anger before it gets you in trouble.
It's not unrelated at all. It's an example of how fugking stupid people can be and how they like to opine about schit they know nothing about.
This case is a lot like the Cleveland case, in the way that the cop driving to the scene places his partner far to close to the suspect as he exits the car and finds himself in danger.
And in both cases the cop starts shooting almost instantly, in both cases if the driver had stop 30-40 feet away all involved would of had some time to access the situation instead of just exiting the car in close proximity to the suspect and killing them instantly.
THINK about where you got your information about your neighbor.
In regards to Chicago, making calls to HANG a person for a split second decision, when they literally risk their lives, their homes and freedom, every day for the public, and are judged by Monday Morning Quarterbacks, with virtually no experience in lethal confrontations, and all they encompass tends to get me, and others more than a bit annoyed.
I have no doubt you are a decent guy, but if you are going to make such calls, having the actual facts would help.
Being that it IS schidtcago and the mayor is Rahm rahm, do you not find it VERY odd that the charges were lodged just as the video HAD to be released as per court order?? This is NOT a brandy new incident. There is a LOT more to this than is open to the public and I suspect it wouldn't help the dead guys "supporters". I think Rahm Rahm is merely trying to save his own useless ass.
F%^k Em Pull everybody out that should be out and turn em loose burn it, loot it whatever. nothing but a ni**er flop house anyway goodbye been a $hit hole far too long
"In regards to Chicago, making calls to HANG a person for a split second decision, when they literally risk their lives, their homes and freedom, every day for the public, and are judged by Monday Morning Quarterbacks, with virtually no experience in lethal confrontations, and all they encompass tends to get me, and others more than a bit annoyed."
That's called "Believing your own B.S." The MYTH of the Hero Cop. The truth is that any Joe Citizen is almost TWICE as likely to die by homicide as are the cops that are "risking their lives" for him.
Garbage workers are ten times as likely to get killed on the job as cops. Most cops will earn a thirty year retirement without ever hearing a shot fired in anger.
I've got a LOT more respect for garbage workers than I have for cops.
Being that it IS schidtcago and the mayor is Rahm rahm, do you not find it VERY odd that the charges were lodged just as the video HAD to be released as per court order?? This is NOT a brandy new incident. There is a LOT more to this than is open to the public and I suspect it wouldn't help the dead guys "supporters". I think Rahm Rahm is merely trying to save his own useless ass.
Maybe you have access to information that's not available to the general public, and maybe you don't. It is certainly inferred in many cases like this by the CCC.
I'm curious as to how the CCC can demand that we give cops "the benefit of the doubt", but they don't extend that same "benefit" to the bosses that fire cops after a questionable use of force incident, or the P A's who, all too seldom, attempt to prosecute them.
The cop is most always "thrown under the bus" to hear y'all tell it.
Even if the cop was s little fast on the trigger fact remains victim was doing illegal acts armed and high on dope . oh yea and black go figure !! Id bet if said black boy was acting as he should he wouldn't be dead, but do many don't get that
Maybe you have access to information that's not available to the general public, and maybe you don't. It is certainly inferred in many cases like this by the CCC.
Yeah. The City of Chicago has a live feed to EvilTwin.
So far we have the cops and cop suckups posting about child porn,women crashing into the Capital fence,and justifying fear of a kid with a 3 inch bladed pocketknife that's not even opened, and the kid is walking away.
It takes a cowardly loser to justify fearing for one's life in that situation, so I don't think that's the reason at all for this kid being shot.
You egomaniac under-achievers with a badge can't abide a GFY from a citizen subject when you are on duty.
AND THAT IS AT THE ROOT OF A MAJORITY OF EXCESSIVE FORCE CASES.
The only person on this thread with an ego-manniacal personality is you
Hey fat fugg, aren't you supposed to be defending this cop, Curdog is not the issue here. BTW where is that cokksucker Dink, we need his expert opinion.
Even if the cop was s little fast on the trigger fact remains victim was doing illegal acts armed and high on dope . oh yea and black go figure !! Id bet if said black boy was acting as he should he wouldn't be dead, but do many don't get that
I finally watched the video today. If the perp had been white we wouldn't have this thread....
So far we have the cops and cop suckups posting about child porn,women crashing into the Capital fence,and justifying fear of a kid with a 3 inch bladed pocketknife that's not even opened, and the kid is walking away.
It takes a cowardly loser to justify fearing for one's life in that situation, so I don't think that's the reason at all for this kid being shot.
You egomaniac under-achievers with a badge can't abide a GFY from a citizen subject when you are on duty.
AND THAT IS AT THE ROOT OF A MAJORITY OF EXCESSIVE FORCE CASES.
The only person on this thread with an ego-manniacal personality is you
Hey fat fugg, aren't you supposed to be defending this cop, Curdog is not the issue here. BTW where is that cokksucker Dink, we need his expert opinion.
I haven't even watched the video, and honestly don't care about it.
DINK is probably do inking your wife,
Gene makes himself the issue, he is a drunken old fool that is fun to pick on
Maybe we could solve some of these scandalous police shootings if they all had to carry revolvers again relying on accuracy instead of being able to empty 16 rounds into a man laying on the ground...
Maybe when an officer has 20 or more complaints against him those departments should start to worry about those officers.
Maybe when a department has to pay out half a billion dollars in legal claims, somebody should start to worry about the whole department!
So far we have the cops and cop suckups posting about child porn,women crashing into the Capital fence,and justifying fear of a kid with a 3 inch bladed pocketknife that's not even opened, and the kid is walking away.
It takes a cowardly loser to justify fearing for one's life in that situation, so I don't think that's the reason at all for this kid being shot.
You egomaniac under-achievers with a badge can't abide a GFY from a citizen subject when you are on duty.
AND THAT IS AT THE ROOT OF A MAJORITY OF EXCESSIVE FORCE CASES.
The only person on this thread with an ego-manniacal personality is you
Hey fat fugg, aren't you supposed to be defending this cop, Curdog is not the issue here. BTW where is that cokksucker Dink, we need his expert opinion.
I haven't even watched the video, and honestly don't care about it.
DINK is probably do inking your wife,
Gene makes himself the issue, he is a drunken old fool that is fun to pick on
What did I do to you...
I don't even want to think about his wife or lack of one.
What you must be aware of is a black and white silent video doesn't tell the entire story in a questionable incident. Not making any suggestions on the incident in Chicago.
The video speaks for itself. I'd love to meet the lawyer that could argue his way out of that conviction. There's absolutely no justification for killing that guy.
What would a reasonable officers perception of the situation be based on the totality of circumstances surrounding the encounter.
This is what will be presented to, and weighed by the jury.
Burger King Confirms Chicago Police Deleted Video Of McDonald Shooting
Burger King Confirms Chicago Police Deleted Video Of McDonald Shooting i Republish ReprintOn the heels of dashcam footage of the Laquan McDonald shooting released today, other news is coming out about how Chicago police worked to suppress video proving he was shot without justification.
According to NBC News Chicago, 86 minutes of security video was missing after the shooting, after police ran through and reviewed it but before any official investigation had been opened, and Burger King has confirmed that it was deleted by police reviewing the video.
After the shooting, according to Jay Darshane, the District Manager for Burger King, four to five police officers wearing blue and white shirts entered the restaurant and asked to view the video and were given the password to the equipment. Three hours later they left, he said.
The next day, when an investigator from the Independent Police Review Authority asked to view the security footage, it was discovered that the 86 minutes of video was missing.
...
But according to Darshane, both the cameras and video recorder were all on and working properly the night of the shooting.
"We had no idea they were going to sit there and delete files," Darshane said. "I mean we were just trying to help the police officers."
"The video by nature is two dimensional so the problem is it distorts distances, and distances and depth perception are important," he said. "The most critical problem is that the video does not depict what my client was seeing. It is not a video from the eyes of my client."
The missing video, all sides agree, would not have shown the actual shooting but attorney’s for McDonald’s family contend it could have shown events leading up to the shooting.
Now NBC News is reporting that Burger King has confirmed that Chicago police deleted that video that night, presumably to bolster their case that the shooting had been justified, by leaving those minutes ahead of the shooting in doubt.
The 86-minutes of missing video runs from 9:13 p.m. to 10:39 p.m., according to the lawyers for McDonald’s family. McDonald was shot at approximately 9:50 p.m.
The Burger King sits at 40th and Pulaski and has a series of outside security cameras. On the night of the shooting, McDonald was trailed by Chicago police officers through the Burger King parking lot after a call about a man with a knife, according to attorneys for the McDonald family.
Apply some critical thinking to those times.
Also, the DA said that officers were called for a man breaking into cars. Now the family attorney is saying the call was for a man with knife.
Maybe we could solve some of these scandalous police shootings if they all had to carry revolvers again relying on accuracy instead of being able to empty 16 rounds into a man laying on the ground...
Maybe you have access to information that's not available to the general public, and maybe you don't. It is certainly inferred in many cases like this by the CCC.
Yeah. The City of Chicago has a live feed to EvilTwin.
Travis
Interesting. I made no statement of support or lack thereof. I made an observation and asked a question. As far as info not available to the general public, in just about all homicide cases that is actually necessary. Curdog, you really should read what is written, not project yourself.
I have no idea what your problem is today. Why this unwarranted attack and your dragging in a totally unrelated case? What are you so mad about? I'll forgive your for your attack on me but you really need to do something about your anger before it gets you in trouble.
It's not unrelated at all. It's an example of how fugking stupid people can be and how they like to opine about schit they know nothing about.
Travis
If people didn't opine about schit they know nothing about, there would be no internet forums.
Being that it IS schidtcago and the mayor is Rahm rahm, do you not find it VERY odd that the charges were lodged just as the video HAD to be released as per court order?? This is NOT a brandy new incident. There is a LOT more to this than is open to the public and I suspect it wouldn't help the dead guys "supporters". I think Rahm Rahm is merely trying to save his own useless ass.
I apologize for thinking you were alluding to having inside information.
You know, if a black guy, high on PCP, got out of a green pickup truck and started waving a knife around at people, and TRH shot him 16 times with his Glock 17, folks would be saying, "Good job, Hawkeye. That's what we've all been talking about for years. Being prepared. Stepping up. Taking out a dangerous criminal before an innocent person is harmed."
But if a cop did that, holy [bleep], it's the death of the Constitution and all that's decent and holy.
if he woulda just stopped the twitching, popo would have stopped on about round 9 and all would be good. don't they teach that schit in dope-crazed-gangster school?
They will never convict the shooter of first degree murder, proving premeditation in this case would be presumptuous at best. Convicting a citizen in the same case would be possible, but being the cops job is to confront crime and to be armed at all times, premeditation is going to be hard to prove in a court of law, much of the stuff people are reading in the papers will not be admissible in a court case. Does anyone know what other charges were filed?
You know, if a black guy, high on PCP, got out of a green pickup truck and started waving a knife around at people, and TRH shot him 16 times with his Glock 17, folks would be saying, "Good job, Hawkeye. That's what we've all been talking about for years. Being prepared. Stepping up. Taking out a dangerous criminal before an innocent person is harmed."
But if a cop did that, holy [bleep], it's the death of the Constitution and all that's decent and holy.
AFAIC, it was a good shoot....yeah, there are good black folk, but clearly he wasn't on of em...
That's called "Believing your own B.S." The MYTH of the Hero Cop. The truth is that any Joe Citizen is almost TWICE as likely to die by homicide as are the cops that are "risking their lives" for him.
Garbage workers are ten times as likely to get killed on the job as cops. Most cops will earn a thirty year retirement without ever hearing a shot fired in anger.
I've got a LOT more respect for garbage workers than I have for cops.
I noticed that no garbage workers responded to, or are in the process of entering the building to engage in combat with the active shooter in Colorado Springs.
![[Linked Image]](http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/876/493/chicagopolicecar640360.jpg)
Interesting. I made no statement of support or lack thereof. I made an observation and asked a question. As far as info not available to the general public, in just about all homicide cases that is actually necessary. Curdog, you really should read what is written, not project yourself.