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Posted By: Rock Chuck TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Here's a good article on the TSA's incompetency. It does make a good point, though. A terrorist doesn't need to get aboard a plane to kill hundreds of people. All he has to do is pack a backpack full of explosives and detonate it in a TSA security line. He'll kill more people and destroy a whole airport terminal at the same time. It would be more disruptive by far than just blowing up a plane in flight.


TSA's Awful Airport Lines Reveal a Deeper Problem

The following editorial appears on Bloomberg View:

American airports, uninviting in the best of times, have lately descended into bedlam. Security lines are stretching for hours. Passengers are missing flights. Some places are even resorting to clowns, candy and miniature horses to calm the flying public. Things will only get worse as summer vacations get under way.

Improving this experience is possible — but there is no easy fix.

The Transportation Security Administration, predictably, wants more money and staff. It notes that Congress has cut its budget, air travel has surged, and long lines are the predictable result. Don’t buy it: The TSA has a $7.4 billion budget and a staff of more than 50,000, yet it can’t meet even the most basic security requirements. More cash alone won’t solve its problems.

Some in Congress think using private contractors in lieu of TSA agents would help. That’s more promising: Studies suggest it could boost efficiency, reduce costs and improve security. A pilot project at 22 airports called the Screening Partnership Program has been largely successful.

Yet contractors still have to follow procedures that are set by the TSA and enforced by politicians. And that’s where the real trouble begins.

By law, the TSA publishes a list of items that are prohibited on planes. The list is divided into topical subcategories and includes dozens of objects, some described with dizzying specificity (“all scissors except those that are not metal and do not have pointed tips, and which have a blade length less than 4 inches as measured from the fulcrum”).

Hunting for such items is the grim lot of the TSA agent. But the list no longer makes sense. It ignores security improvements, such as reinforced cockpit doors, that have eliminated the threat many of those items once posed. It distracts screeners from looking for more dangerous stuff, such as explosives and toxins. It gives terrorists a useful catalog of items to avoid. And it leads to long lines in unsecured areas — which make inviting targets in their own right.

Even the most sensible proposals to pare back the banned-items list have led to theatrical outrage from Congress. As a result, the list hasn’t been significantly updated in nearly a decade, even as threats to aviation have evolved. It should be scrapped entirely, except for the ban on truly dangerous items, such as explosives. Airport screeners shouldn’t be rummaging for illicit scissors; they should be ensuring that no one blows up a plane.

Such an approach to security — based on assessing risks instead of checking boxes — would lead to shorter lines, safer planes, and a generally less-awful day at the airport.

There are other factors that contribute to these delays, of course. If airlines didn’t charge a fee for checked bags, security lines might be less congested. Airports and airlines should do a better job of alerting travelers to delays. And the TSA could be more aggressive about promoting its PreCheck program, which allows passengers to use an expedited screening process.

In the meantime, weary traveler, breathe deeply, pet the tiny horses and try to keep calm.
Posted By: 4ager Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
TSA - thank you, W, for yet another bloated, useless, and now-permanent .gov agency that will forever more cost us ever increasing dollars and perpetually fail to do anything useful.
Posted By: Rock Chuck Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
My wife just told me that when she went through the Portland airport last month they'd made some major changes. Now the passenger line approaching security is routed around a large square. Each person passes by the sides of the square twice as they advance in the line. In the square they have a drug/explosive sniffing dog that gets 2 chances at sniffing out each person on the way by. When they get to the actual security check, they don't have to take off shoes, coats, or anything. It speeds things up considerably.
Posted By: antlers Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Originally Posted by 4ager
TSA - thank you, W, for yet another bloated, useless, and now-permanent .gov agency that will forever more cost us ever increasing dollars and perpetually fail to do anything useful.

Yep. Succinct and perfect definition of a U.S. government bureaucracy.
Posted By: mtnsnake Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
The only way to fix TSA is to close it down and not have it. It worked for years without them. Why use them now?
Posted By: Rock Chuck Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Originally Posted by mtnsnake
The only way to fix TSA is to close it down and not have it. It worked for years without them. Why use them now?
It didn't work on 9/11. We need some security but here has to be a better way than this.
Posted By: Cheesy Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
I know something changed this week, my every other week flight through DFW was met with zero lines at customs and zero lines at TSA. Just blew right through with zero wait. Same flight as the previous 4 months. Typically it's 10 minutes at customs and an hour at TSA.

Or maybe it was the holiday weekend.

Posted By: antlers Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
When I was a kid and we'd fly somewhere, it was kind of a big deal. We'd even dress up for it. People were treated nice, they 'gave' us beverages and peanuts...and on longer flights they'd feed us a meal...! Even up into the late 80's and very early 90's, they still treated people well. I remember buyin' round-trip tickets from Houston to Las Vegas for a hundred bucks a piece, and we did that many times. No 'extra charges' for this or that either.




Nowadays they treat ya' like $ch!t and herd ya' through like a buncha cattle. And charge ya' 'extra' for nearly everything.
Posted By: rockinbbar Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Bigger Govt.

More Problems.

Who knew?
Posted By: ingwe Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
My wife just told me that when she went through the Portland airport last month they'd made some major changes. Now the passenger line approaching security is routed around a large square. Each person passes by the sides of the square twice as they advance in the line. In the square they have a drug/explosive sniffing dog that gets 2 chances at sniffing out each person on the way by. When they get to the actual security check, they don't have to take off shoes, coats, or anything. It speeds things up considerably.



What a concept!

Something that actually makes sense....
Posted By: 2legit2quit Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
You guys are thinking small

Look at the big picture

Lots of good paying fed jobs created with the stroke of a pen


That had to help unemployment numbers

And it was all for FREE!

Just add some debt to the bill already owed to ever tax paying sob out there

And who are all these .gov workers gonna vote for?


See how good this all is?
Posted By: ingwe Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Here's a good article on the TSA's incompetency. It does make a good point, though. A terrorist doesn't need to get aboard a plane to kill hundreds of people. All he has to do is pack a backpack full of explosives and detonate it in a TSA security line. He'll kill more people and destroy a whole airport terminal at the same time. It would be more disruptive by far than just blowing up a plane in flight.





This is both disturbing and VERY true....
Posted By: NH K9 Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
My wife just told me that when she went through the Portland airport last month they'd made some major changes. Now the passenger line approaching security is routed around a large square. Each person passes by the sides of the square twice as they advance in the line. In the square they have a drug/explosive sniffing dog that gets 2 chances at sniffing out each person on the way by. When they get to the actual security check, they don't have to take off shoes, coats, or anything. It speeds things up considerably.



What a concept!

Something that actually makes sense....


Which is wonderful, in theory,but you and I both know that the dog is likely being worked well past the point where it's effective. I hope otherwise, but we've seen it too many times. Drug dog, don't GAF, but if it's EOD.........

There are better ways, but until folks realize/accept that profiling in an airport is a "must", we're not going to move forward.
Posted By: victoro Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
If our government really wanted to protect passengers they would use Israel's methods and screen the passengers and their luggage before they enter the airport. The main reason Israel has been so successful is that they profile passengers. Israel also uses professional screeners instead of the idiots TSA uses.
Posted By: RockyRaab Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
The irony is that TSA was created to replace private contractors who were said to be slow and ineffective. So now that a bloated and hugely expensive goobermint bureaucracy has proven (yet again) that government is the worst possible solution, what do they propose? Why, private contractors, of course. Really?
Posted By: watch4bear Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Deny radical islam exists and import the enemy in large numbers, the democrat way.
Posted By: mtnsnake Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
There was security in place on 9/11, we just do not listen to the warnings. Not saying we do not need security, just doesn't need to be run by the government.
Posted By: ingwe Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Originally Posted by NH K9
Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
My wife just told me that when she went through the Portland airport last month they'd made some major changes. Now the passenger line approaching security is routed around a large square. Each person passes by the sides of the square twice as they advance in the line. In the square they have a drug/explosive sniffing dog that gets 2 chances at sniffing out each person on the way by. When they get to the actual security check, they don't have to take off shoes, coats, or anything. It speeds things up considerably.



What a concept!

Something that actually makes sense....


Which is wonderful, in theory,but you and I both know that the dog is likely being worked well past the point where it's effective. I hope otherwise, but we've seen it too many times. Drug dog, don't GAF, but if it's EOD.........

There are better ways, but until folks realize/accept that profiling in an airport is a "must", we're not going to move forward.



Theres a lot to what you said George. The Catch22 on the dog idea is using a dog that will work for extended periods.....i.e. a Malinois or Dutchy....but it was decided long ago that the public find them intimidating.....so they use Labs, and yes, they overwork and under-reward them.

Profiling is indeed a "must"...IMHO
Posted By: Archerhunter Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Originally Posted by Cheesy
I know something changed this week, my every other week flight through DFW was met with zero lines at customs and zero lines at TSA. Just blew right through with zero wait. Same flight as the previous 4 months. Typically it's 10 minutes at customs and an hour at TSA.

Or maybe it was the holiday weekend.



More probably stand down orders so a batch of poor downtrodden refugees could get through without incident.

Posted By: kwg020 Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
TSA treats their folks like $hit. A large part of the issue is the big turn over. I hear 20% a year. There are few long term employees to make good solid decisions about what people are bringing in with them and what is acceptable and what is not. There is no leadership at the top or in the middle.

Of course, there is absolutely NO profiling which would help immensely. I also see where someone could walk in with a bomb and never make it on a plane and kill hundreds. Something that happens all the time in the middle east.

Add onto this what people are trying to get away with. The rules for getting through the line are simple. Just follow them.

Last but not least are the air lines. A $25 fee just to put a bag underneath is unacceptable. The air lines should be the last people to whine and moan about any lines.
Posted By: Crow hunter Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
]It didn't work on 9/11. We need some security but here has to be a better way than this.


It worked fine on 9/11. The terrorists walked on board with box cutters, those weren't prohibited items. Security did exactly what they were tasked to do, they let them carry them through. It was in no way a failure of the screeners but rather the policy makers far above the screening agent's pay grade. Creating the TSA to address it was idiotic, the screeners themselves weren't the problem.

I'm an airline pilot so I deal with this constantly. Passenger screening is way overboard and is mostly theater to make the public feel safe without really doing anything. The real threat is the ramp workers that are only screened at hiring then given a badge that gets them into the ramp without screening. There are thousands of them coming and going every day with access to the aircraft and in most places they're just waved through when they flash their badge. In a place like Paris Charles DeGaulle airport where the ramp workers are 20+% Muslim that's a problem. I flew a plane from Charles DeGaulle the day before the Egyptair crash. The hair stands up on the back of my neck every time I go through that place. If you look at their ID badges it seems like every ramp worker there is named Mohammed. That's where the real problem lies. Examining the anal orifices of Jewish grandmothers isn't going to do squat.
Posted By: dale06 Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
TSA, add it to the heap with

Social security
Veterans Administration health care
Medicare
Oboma care
Welfare
Most farm programs

They and many others are totally mismanaged and in most cases totally un needed
Posted By: Chris_EOD Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Originally Posted by kwg020
TSA treats their folks like $hit. A large part of the issue is the big turn over. I hear 20% a year. There are few long term employees to make good solid decisions about what people are bringing in with them and what is acceptable and what is not. There is no leadership at the top or in the middle.

Of course, there is absolutely NO profiling which would help immensely. I also see where someone could walk in with a bomb and never make it on a plane and kill hundreds. Something that happens all the time in the middle east.

Add onto this what people are trying to get away with. The rules for getting through the line are simple. Just follow them.

Last but not least are the air lines. A $25 fee just to put a bag underneath is unacceptable. The air lines should be the last people to whine and moan about any lines.


Let me also add this. The TSA tried to loosen the rules based on the current threat and extra security measures aboard planes. That was all set to implement until the air waitress unions blew a gasket and had it squashed.
Posted By: ironbender Re: TSA's problems - 05/28/16
Originally Posted by Crow hunter
Passenger screening is way overboard and is mostly theater to make the public feel safe without really doing anything.


..and 90% of forbidden items are missed by TSA.




It's just money...

Transportation Security Administration
Agency overview
Annual budget $7.55 billion
(2015)
Posted By: Cheesy Re: TSA's problems - 05/31/16
Flew Friday night, Mexican security confiscated the unopened bottle of water I forgot was in my backpack, not a big deal, lines were short. Coworker that was in transit from the US to Mexico at the same time did get through with a pocket knife in his jean pockets, not found until he made it to the hotel that night.
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