Idaho, like many other states, recently enacted a $75/yr registration surcharge on hybrid cars to offset the loss of fuel tax. For some strange reason, owners of hybrids are up in arms saying they shouldn't have to pay taxes to maintain the roads. The poor babies don't want to pay to play.
No, the liberal pukes want us to subsidize their travels with the gas tax on our pickups.
hell, i'd be pissed as well. they tell us to "save the earth" by using less fuel. Then they penalize us for it.
personally, i drive a F350 diesel, but i also drive a motorcycle.
they'll probably tax me for the fuel gulping truck! are they going to tax the motorcycle too?
Would you prefer they put a GPS in your vehicles and tax you by the mile? The roads have to be paid for one way or another.
Since we can trust the gov. there is no reason to distrust a GPS. Too high a ton mile tax will make our watermelons cost more, but there has to be a way to fund roads. I have noticed a class distinction from the "better" cars, they seem to be jerks behind the wheel.
That would probably be the "fairest" way, provided they dropped the fuel tax, which will never, ever, happen of course (don't forget the phone tax levied to pay for the Spanish-American War and collected for over 100years). An adjustment would have to be made for the GVW to compensate for the extra wear caused by heavy vehicles.
Studies have shown that hybrid drivers have to keep their little sippers for a long, long, time to recover the extra investment for the hybrid stuff, longer than almost anyone keeps a car these days. It's not hard to imagine that eventually there'll be a "exit fee" for old hybrids going to the crusher to pay for recycling the batteries. I imagine that more than a few greenies will be re-thinking their committment to the cause.
No good deed ever goes unpunished, and most politicians never met a tax they didn't like.
Would you prefer they put a GPS in your vehicles and tax you by the mile? The roads have to be paid for one way or another.
Stop spending the state's money on every little idea social welfare feel good idea that pops in their heads and instead spend it on core infrastructure like a state should? I know, crazy talk.
Even the Comptroller of Maryland, naturally a Democrat, gets it and has steadfastly opposed tax increases from his party and has told the legislature there is plenty of money if they would spend it on what they should and not the aforementioned crap.
It's really not that hard.
Virginia allows hybrid drivers to use the HOV lanes without having to stuff their cars with strangers or (or mannequins), totally at odds with the logic for creating them in the first place, just to encourage the use of the little eco-mobiles. They get a special plate for identification.
Politicians are great at getting it wrong, then getting it wronger to try and fix it. Apparently however, a tax is never a mistake.
Virginia allows hybrid drivers to use the HOV lanes without having to stuff their cars with strangers or (or mannequins), totally at odds with the logic for creating them in the first place, just to encourage the use of the little eco-mobiles. They get a special plate for identification.
Politicians are great at getting it wrong, then getting it wronger to try and fix it. Apparently however, a tax is never a mistake.
Here in Warshington they give small cars a discount on ferry fares, then don't penalize them for wasting five feet in front of them when they park.....
hell, i'd be pissed as well. they tell us to "save the earth" by using less fuel. Then they penalize us for it.
personally, i drive a F350 diesel, but i also drive a motorcycle.
they'll probably tax me for the fuel gulping truck! are they going to tax the motorcycle too?
Britain's already taxing by the mile, just to discourage driving so as to protect the environment. They also have big fees for driving into the cities, I believe, something that NYC has copied.
All this has no effect on the well-to-do, of course, who can afford to do whatever they want. The poor schmuck just trying to get by is the one that really gets hit by this crap. So much for the Left looking out for the little guy.
Virginia allows hybrid drivers to use the HOV lanes without having to stuff their cars with strangers or (or mannequins), totally at odds with the logic for creating them in the first place, just to encourage the use of the little eco-mobiles. They get a special plate for identification.
Politicians are great at getting it wrong, then getting it wronger to try and fix it. Apparently however, a tax is never a mistake.
Here in Warshington they give small cars a discount on ferry fares, then don't penalize them for wasting five feet in front of them when they park.....
Wa state employees can also charge their cars on tax payers dime while at work....
Would you prefer they put a GPS in your vehicles and tax you by the mile? The roads have to be paid for one way or another.
Pure Bullcrap. Every time they add a tax for highway driving (in screwball CA), the tax is never enough, and disappears into teacher and state employees pension. This gets another tax in a year or so, Governor Moonbeam says we need another tax, and the roads still suck. So we get another tax or fee which mostly goes to pensions again.
They ought to look at the environmental impact of mining heavy metals for batteries vs. drilling for oil/gas. Not to mention, the Chinese have the market cornered on all those battery materials. Then, get back to me on which vehicle has less environmental "impact".
I hate the illegal and unconstitutional taxes that add more layers to the corruption but it's ironic and satisfying that the Toyota Pious drivers are being penalized for driving a "green car". Like previously mentioned, the amount of rare earth minerals needed for a hybrid hardly makes it a responsible choice.
It's not so much "how much" environmental impact, as it is "where" the environmental impact occurs.
They are burning hydrocarbons to produce the electricity for those hybrids and electrics. They just aren't burning it in the city where all the greenie wienies tend to congregate.
An objective assessment of the real total environmental impact of the hybrids vs. the guzzlers would be interesting, and never see the light of day. It's all about creating a narrative to justify Hoovering money put of our wallets to spend or give to someone else. It's done in stages, of course. Few would buy a hybrid knowing up front that a big tax was going to be levied later.
Perhaps the biggest scam is the trading of carbon credits, which allows polluters to go on polluting as long as they buy credits from those who'll never use them, brokered through rich azzholes like Albert Gore Junior, who naturally take a little off the top. The sums invloved are so huge that a little off the top adds up to major bucks. Of course, the total amount of pollutants is the same, but everything becomes more expensive and old Crazy Al just gets fatter.
What do the farmers pay for using the roads cowboy ?
Studded tires do more damage to the roads than anything.
All this sheit amounts to is another way greedy bureaucracies can divide public sentiment and tax another segment of society. I say no more taxes.
How about a ten thousand a year tax for those who walk to the corner store.
What do the farmers pay for using the roads cowboy ?
Here in okieland a landowner (or farmer) with holdings on a county road (66 ft. wide) pays taxes to the middle of the road so thats 33 ft. times however long your frontage is that you pay taxes on but cannot farm or use other than driving on. I think that covers payment by farmers don't you?
Hit 'em with an "industrial tax".. I suspect the overall cost to manufacture a hybrid car more than off-sets the "carbon tax" on regular cars.
After all- the farther away from the source point of energy, the more it costs to get there in dollars.
hell, i'd be pissed as well. they tell us to "save the earth" by using less fuel. Then they penalize us for it.
personally, i drive a F350 diesel, but i also drive a motorcycle.
they'll probably tax me for the fuel gulping truck! are they going to tax the motorcycle too?
Every time you put fuel in the tank...so in lieu of taxing the electricity used for on-road use, slap a small tax on the rego.
Even the Comptroller of Maryland, naturally a Democrat, gets it and has steadfastly opposed tax increases from his party and has told the legislature there is plenty of money if they would spend it on what they should and not the aforementioned crap..
That's ONE democrat with ZERO friends... Why, he's speaking common
sense, fer cryin' out loud..
I think that covers payment by farmers don't you?
Not to mention the miles driven using road taxed gasoline, on the farm, not on roads at all. miles
Would you prefer they put a GPS in your vehicles and tax you by the mile? The roads have to be paid for one way or another.
I have never had a problem paying for something of fair value, but once the Guberment touches the money all efficiency is lost.
i.e. $1m outhouses, $2k hammers, trillion dollar fighter jets the list goes on.
Dissect ANYTHING that the Guberment spends money on and see the SF per price... or per unit price and you will be outraged.
Simple Example... it cost $0.02 to make a penny and $0.08 to make a nickle.
They ought to look at the environmental impact of mining heavy metals for batteries vs. drilling for oil/gas. Not to mention, the Chinese have the market cornered on all those battery materials. Then, get back to me on which vehicle has less environmental "impact".
Same goes for ethanol.
Carbon emissions to manufacture and get product to market are staggering.
Then there's destruction and poisoning of good clean ground water to figure in.
We'd be better off with muscle cars from the 70's and leaded gasoline.
People are going to have to pay for all this useless pretend science.
"In order to save the planet, we had to kill it."
These little cars should have a sticker by the plug in recepticle that says "Go Green. Shovel coal here."
That or "Insert Nuclear Fuel Rods Here."
How about "Shovel wasted tax dollars here."
People are so stupid.
In 2015 in the US, 88 million acres were used to grow corn for alcohol. That would grow a lot of groceries.
Don't like that either. We're encouraged to conserve and then have to pay for it.
Years back in a dry period BPA was having a tough time meeting demand. Ash us to cut back on power use and then up the price when we did.
Progress and technological advances should make things less expensive. Seems the government finds a way to make sure that never happens.
I'm doing my best get us away from fossil fuels by burning as much diesel as my F350 can process. I don't like the cold winters either so I'm pumping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere via my wood burning as well.
Seeing as how water vapor is present in the atmosphere in quantities vastly greater then CO2 and water vapor has a specific heat much larger than CO2, water is a far greater problem for trapping heat than CO2. Therefore, I'm doing my part in preventing global warming by reducing my sweating to the most minimal levels possible.
Politically, however, water vapor is impossible to tax and control while CO2 theoretically is so CO2 is what they're going after.
In this instance I support the Greenies...
Anything to do with Government, their favorite word is TAX. They can't milk the public out of enough of it.
Its ridiculous what they charge trucks in road use taxes annually. As alluded to by Pugs, its all what they decide to spend the money on, and where. They never seem to spend it out of the pocket that the tax money goes into.
It was under a Democrat, but there was a solution for some of this way back under the Roosevelt Administration. It was a depression, and instead of "Welfare", the WPA was created to put people to work, to earn money instead of sitting on their asses all day, 24/7 and getting high while playing video games.
How many people collect welfare in this nation now? They want money, give them a shovel and put them to work on our nations road system maintaining and rebuilding it. Lord knows there would be no shortage of manpower, looking at the welfare rolls, even when one considers the number of those (in the ghetto especially) that are collecting under 5 to 10 or more different identities weekly.
The damned government, state local and Federal gets way more than enough tax money, and how much goes into welfare?
For people who do nothing, produce nothing, and contribute nothing except a vote come election time.
Government needs to manage its money, instead of expecting the public to just keep shelling it out. And I know here in Oregon, people who get a job with the state here, act like their ship has come in and they just won the lottery.
Ever notice, especially with DemocRATS in office, that projects that need done and are long overdue, seem to get started right around election time? Before the last election, Obama spent $600,000 getting a couple of bus stops made and deluxed out here in town, right in front of the welfare office, the Adult and Family Services Office... ya know, where they hand out their Welfare to the non working classes.
As said, when are they going to come up with a reason to start taxing those who ride a bicycle, or taxing each pair of shoes you buy as a walking tax.... list never ends with these political AHoles.
Clowns waste 75 cents of every dollar they get and then cry that they are broke, and need more TAX Money.
When I was a kid, they had chain gangs in Virginia doing that kind of work. What the hells is the matter with that once again? All they do along those lines in Oregon, is have them pick up trash, along the road.
Good roads is one of the only things I want from my government.
Don't like that either. We're encouraged to conserve and then have to pay for it.
Years back in a dry period BPA was having a tough time meeting demand. Ash us to cut back on power use and then up the price when we did.
Progress and technological advances should make things less expensive. Seems the government finds a way to make sure that never happens.
I'm doing my best get us away from fossil fuels by burning as much diesel as my F350 can process. I don't like the cold winters either so I'm pumping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere via my wood burning as well.
Austin did the same in a drought in past years. BEGGED people to conserve water. They did. And then Austin ran low on money because of low water use thye asked for... upped the bills...
For some strange reason, owners of hybrids are up in arms saying they shouldn't have to pay taxes to maintain the roads.
I doubt that is what they object to. Obviously, they are objecting to the state recouping tax in fuel they will not consume. How is that not just an inappropriate of a tax as any England levied on the colonies that sparked the revolution?
As usual, it's all a matter of whose bull is being gored.
Well, I just hope all the happy little phag car drivers have a glorious Earth Day celebration.
Drive a cork in their ass and make them hold their breath all day.
Tofu and bean sprouts need taxed.
It's actually a road tax collected on fuel. If the don't pay it, the roads don't get fixed. Enough squawking and they'll drop it in favor of a mileage tax and we'll all have gps's in our cars keeping track of everywhere we go. I wonder how well they'll like that.
Good roads is one of the only things I want from my government.
Yeah that and control of the innanet.
For some strange reason, owners of hybrids are up in arms saying they shouldn't have to pay taxes to maintain the roads.
I doubt that is what they object to. Obviously, they are objecting to the state recouping tax in fuel they will not consume. How is that not just an inappropriate of a tax as any England levied on the colonies that sparked the revolution?
As usual, it's all a matter of whose bull is being gored.
As noted though, the tax is for road repair, not because you use fuel so to speak.
It simply needs to be reworded a bit to keep up with the times, no one expected that an alternative to gas/diesel/propane was going to be burning other fuels to produce electricity to also power vehicles.
The all still burn energy even though its moot, it ends up being for the roads driven on, regardless of fuel type.
This is a case of moronic politicians encouraging energy savings, yet when the revenue slows, they re-adjust to keep the spigot flowing. The federal tax incentive to buy hybrids is still in effect - from $3600 to $7500 to be figured on your adjusted gross income.
I have driven 12v Cummins for decades, but in 2010 the new wife suggested a Prius for us. 2010 had the "new" engine.
After I jumped up and down 25 times and had my tantrum... we went and looked at them.
They are BRILLIANT cars. Virtually no maintenance and 54mpg (which equates to about 6-10 new guns a year for me... which is an extra fun poke at the Guberment to boot).
By no maintenance, I mean that in 107k and 6 years, I have done 15 oil changes, 2 sets of tires, 2 sets of wipers, two air filters, two cabin filters and need to replace the 12v accessory battery (the $80 one) here shortly. Brakes are still at 70% plus and the main battery is supposed to hold up to 300k+ with the way I drive.
The world is filled with stupid overpriced stuff that breaks, but AKs, Glocks, 12v Cummins and 2010/new Prius are not among that list.
FYI, they are silly fast (VVT engine PLUS electric motor) and huge BTW (I am 6'5" and 240).
Still have the Cummins and farm trucks, but the Prius does fine when I don't need a dually.
When my son got married 6 years ago, his in-laws gave them a new Prius for a wedding present. It's been flawless so far. It'll cruise at 75 or 80 and gets 50+ mph doing it. They put 2 child seats in the back and a small adult can still get in with them.
Raising taxes, or implementing new taxes, should NEVER be the answer to any problem. There is no question that 'administrative costs' (bureaucracy, graft, corruption, inefficiency, etc.) are on the rise and cutting *that* fat would allow dollars to go to funding/fixing roads. The monster that we call government *should* leverage it's power to benefit it's citizens rather than act punitively towards them, they should practice fiscal responsibility rather than make up for *their* shortcomings by further taxation, and there'd be plenty of money for roads and other infrastructure. Seems like *this* should be demanded of the government rather than showing support for 'any' further taxation.
I look at a Prius the same way I look at the Scion xA my folks gave my son.
I have no issues with the mechanics of either vehicle...
its just why did they have to put such a HoMo looking body on the darn things?
Why aren't they selling a Corolla version of a Prius then?
while I'm on my soap box, why wouldn't they make them diesel/electric for even better mileage?
Ugly sells as does Stupid Looking in today's society.
Don't like that either. We're encouraged to conserve and then have to pay for it.
Years back in a dry period BPA was having a tough time meeting demand. Ash us to cut back on power use and then up the price when we did.
Progress and technological advances should make things less expensive. Seems the government finds a way to make sure that never happens.
I'm doing my best get us away from fossil fuels by burning as much diesel as my F350 can process. I don't like the cold winters either so I'm pumping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere via my wood burning as well.
Austin did the same in a drought in past years. BEGGED people to conserve water. They did. And then Austin ran low on money because of low water use thye asked for... upped the bills...
Same thing happened in the DC suburbs. Had to conserve water. No water on restaurant tables unless requested, etc, etc. A couple years later, they were demanding a rate increase due to lower revenues caused by the conservation they asked for. Makes as much sense as raising the subway fares to recover the income they lost because of reduced ridership caused by high fares.
I have driven 12v Cummins for decades, but in 2010 the new wife suggested a Prius for us. 2010 had the "new" engine.
After I jumped up and down 25 times and had my tantrum... we went and looked at them.
They are BRILLIANT cars. Virtually no maintenance and 54mpg (which equates to about 6-10 new guns a year for me... which is an extra fun poke at the Guberment to boot).
By no maintenance, I mean that in 107k and 6 years, I have done 15 oil changes, 2 sets of tires, 2 sets of wipers, two air filters, two cabin filters and need to replace the 12v accessory battery (the $80 one) here shortly. Brakes are still at 70% plus and the main battery is supposed to hold up to 300k+ with the way I drive.
The world is filled with stupid overpriced stuff that breaks, but AKs, Glocks, 12v Cummins and 2010/new Prius are not among that list.
FYI, they are silly fast (VVT engine PLUS electric motor) and huge BTW (I am 6'5" and 240).
Still have the Cummins and farm trucks, but the Prius does fine when I don't need a dually.
I never say never.... how do you have to drive to get 300 K out of the batteries?
I drive 10 plus one way to work daily, and a couple fire/ems fast runs beyond that often.
I expect 200-300 K out of a gas vehicle...
What does it take to get it out of prius without having to replace 5-10K of batteries?
It's been years, but when I was in Texas they had toll roads. Very simple. You pay to use the road. Those who don't don't.
I have driven 12v Cummins for decades, but in 2010 the new wife suggested a Prius for us. 2010 had the "new" engine.
After I jumped up and down 25 times and had my tantrum... we went and looked at them.
They are BRILLIANT cars. Virtually no maintenance and 54mpg (which equates to about 6-10 new guns a year for me... which is an extra fun poke at the Guberment to boot).
By no maintenance, I mean that in 107k and 6 years, I have done 15 oil changes, 2 sets of tires, 2 sets of wipers, two air filters, two cabin filters and need to replace the 12v accessory battery (the $80 one) here shortly. Brakes are still at 70% plus and the main battery is supposed to hold up to 300k+ with the way I drive.
The world is filled with stupid overpriced stuff that breaks, but AKs, Glocks, 12v Cummins and 2010/new Prius are not among that list.
FYI, they are silly fast (VVT engine PLUS electric motor) and huge BTW (I am 6'5" and 240).
Still have the Cummins and farm trucks, but the Prius does fine when I don't need a dually.
I never say never.... how do you have to drive to get 300 K out of the batteries?
I drive 10 plus one way to work daily, and a couple fire/ems fast runs beyond that often.
I expect 200-300 K out of a gas vehicle...
What does it take to get it out of prius without having to replace 5-10K of batteries?
I expect 750k+ miles out of a 12v Cummins (with A/T repairs/rebuilds every 200k)...
The 300k on a Prius is just a guess, but I am hopeful of that. If not, $4k (ACTUAL HIGH END cost for main batteries)... every 12 or so years years isn't that hateful. 12 years again being a guess.
Traffic is hard on the batteries from what I gather, always charging/discharging... but again only speculation (no actual experience). Heat in a sealed car parked in the sun would also be a guess on battery wear... think cordless drill maintenance procedures.
The real savings is not having to deal with the nit picky stuff like belts, alternators, starters etc. A Prius simply does not have them. Gay as hell for a gearhead, but I am sold on them... like Glocks, they just work.
Yes they a sissy looking car... so what, the 6-10 guns I buy every year on the $$$ saved ain't!
While I'm on my soap box, why wouldn't they make them diesel/electric for even better mileage?
Ding Ding... diesel and MPG are PERFECT, but when you add the EPA and all the BULL SCHIT regulations a decent diesel with great MPG will never be available in the USA. TOO MANY STUPID GUBERMENT RULES!
Case in point... VW tricked the EPA and got great MPG... then they got caught and bye bye on any hope for a 50-60 MPG diesel in the USA ever again
It's manufactured by Toyota. One should expect 300K+, especially with lighter engine use.
But our 'roads' system is based on fuel consumption/taxes to pay for it. So modifications would be needed to that system when many newer vehicles consume less fuel.
The EPA has it's place in the world.
Actually, that is incorrect. They have their place in hell is what I meant to say.
California bans lead, because condors "allegedly" die from eating lead... how many other critters will be lost and die from wounds from non lead (less than fully lethal) bullets.
Since lead shot was banned on geese, I have wounded and lost dozens and dozens of geese. Is this the same number that would have died from eating lead pellets? IMHO... NO POSSIBLE WAY.