The ones I've seen on TV show him being dragged by the leg through the water, and one witness said the videos don't show when he tried climbing a concrete wall and was banging the kids head against it
The possibility of this gorilla killing the boy is pretty high ,given the level of a agitation and shear physical strength of gorillas. But as a Wyoming resident and watch some of this land's fine people interacting with Yellowstone wildlife, some people need a close up of animal strength to comprehend their decisions. To see a four year old torn apart would be a horrible event, but now people are mad because the Gorilla was killed.... this is a no win for the Zoo. They saved the child but had to kill a somewhat rare and valuable animal, because of the child and his awesome parents. They could sue the parents and child for lose of gorilla. I am sure the replacement cost is in excess of 1 Million dollars, and they would never see a dime. My hope is that the parents and the child were taken to an enclosed area to view the dead gorilla and explained that this was their fault and responsibility.
It's unreal how many people in "the matrix" think that zoo gorillas are simply organic versions of stuffed animals.
These are the type of people that get bitten by wild animals when they try to feed them.
Or stuff bufflar babies in their SUV's because they were cold.
I also wish hackers would work on a method to provide shocks to the dipshits trying to make it a race issue.
One quick discharge of the remaining amps in the battery would suffice.
Thankfully the Buffalo at Yellowstone tend to get the upper hand on most of their tourist problems, far more people are knocked down and roughed up then are reported in the news. Only the ones that need a medi-vac are on the news.......
Why not just make the third barrier an electric fence with 3 wires? Problem solved.
They had to kill the beast. I have no problem with that.
If the enclosure can keep an adult gorilla in it should be sufficient to keep people out???????
Not at all. The gorilla couldn't escape because of the wall that went down to the moat. The kid got in, went to said wall, and either jumped or fell in.
Why not just make the third barrier an electric fence with 3 wires? Problem solved.
They had to kill the beast. I have no problem with that.
If the enclosure can keep an adult gorilla in it should be sufficient to keep people out???????
Not at all. The gorilla couldn't escape because of the wall that went down to the moat. The kid got in, went to said wall, and either jumped or fell in.
If you install a three wire fence then is the Zoo liable when said young child is electrocuted to death in view of the public. I am saying the enclosure is a reasonable barrier between the Gorilla and the public, the gorilla can not get out and it is difficult for a NORMAL REASONABLE THINKING Person to get in.. Once in a person is not getting out also.
My hope is that the parents and the child were taken to an enclosed area to view the dead gorilla and explained that this was their fault and responsibility.
Now THAT is may be the dumbest thing said to date about the incident...
Giving the Negro parents a stern warning and/or lecture wouldn't do chit....if it did the ones that finally make it to prison wouldn't have dozens of prior convictions....
As far as the child goes....there's plenty of blame to go around on this caper but one thing's for sure....the only two that have ZERO culpability are the child and the Gorilla....
I have learned a few things during this gorilla debacle.
1) The media has to make everything about their agenda.
2) There are some bad, bad parents that still don't accept responsibility even after severe consequences occur due to their negligence.
3) The boy was in danger, and gorilla needed killin'. It didn't need tranquilized, tazed or trained. It needed killin'... The zoo made the right decision about that.
4) There are many bleeding heart idiots, that instead of remembering our soldiers on Memorial Day, they chose to make a big deal of a gorilla getting killed.
Where are all of you perfect parents who are always in complete control of your kids? Because I'm around a lot of parents and a lot of kids and I've never seen any of you.
I must have had perfect parents because when I went to the zoo with them there's no damn way they would have let me even look like I was thinking of going over, under or through the first railing let alone make it over three barriers.
Where are all of you perfect parents who are always in complete control of your kids? Because I'm around a lot of parents and a lot of kids and I've never seen any of you.
My kids came equipped with hands that fit perfectly in mine when we were places that I wanted to control them beyond voice control, which worked very well too, since we believed in spanking. I also knew how to count and how many I had with me at any time and made sure I kept them in eyesight and close at hand. I used these techniques to my and their advantage when around questionable surroundings and always if caged wild animals were present. I doubt I'm totally alone, though, it would appear, nearly.
No one's ever had to kill a gorilla because I didn't watch my kid.
No one ever had to kill a gorilla because my parents didn't watch me.
This isn't like he snuck some beers when they weren't around. The "family" went there together to look at animals together and should have stopped the ordeal LONG before he cleared 3 different barriers. Particularly a 3 year old. And I damn sure do blame the parents for the entire deal. ALL of it.
I don't blame the zoo for putting the gorilla down - remember they live with this thing 24/7 and know how it behaves and what it's like when they're in its enclosure. They had the BEST idea and experience with the gorilla to know how he would handle the situation of the kid in there. Good shoot.
Don't really blame the kid - too young to know better.
That leaves the parents for being so completely incompetent that sterilization should be on the menu. If only as a deterrent for others...
I must have had perfect parents because when I went to the zoo with them there's no damn way they would have let me even look like I was thinking of going over, under or through the first railing let alone make it over three barriers.
Where are all of you perfect parents who are always in complete control of your kids? Because I'm around a lot of parents and a lot of kids and I've never seen any of you.
Let's see, I've made an algebra mistake at some time so now I'm not qualified to grade a freshman math test?
My parents and their contemporaries weren't perfect, but I guarantee you a lot of child behavior I see commonly exhibited today was not tolerated in my day.
Kid1 falls down, Mom kneels down to pick her up and console her. Kid2 chases bird into bushes. Mom immediately starts looking for Kid2. Kid2 is following bird, then distracted by the water and apparent slide someone made for him. Kid2 heads into moat. Mom is still hysterically looking for kid.
That's completely plausible. And could happen to anyone. Even super parents like we have here.
It's not like the Mom watched kid jump into the moat, all she had to do was turn her head for five seconds. You can imagine that she never noticed her kid missing, but you can also imagine that a great mom made a mistake that anyone else could have.
I don't know which was true, I just choose not to condemn the mom based on my imagination.
Let's see, I've made an algebra mistake at some time so now I'm not qualified to grade a freshman math test?
My parents and their contemporaries weren't perfect, but I guarantee you a lot of child behavior I see commonly exhibited today was not tolerated in my day.
If Kid 2 isn't ready to stand still for a minute without a leash then he isn't ready to be out in public without one on one supervision. Whose responsibility is that?
Let's see, I've made an algebra mistake at some time so now I'm not qualified to grade a freshman math test?
My parents and their contemporaries weren't perfect, but I guarantee you a lot of child behavior I see commonly exhibited today was not tolerated in my day.
Oh schit moments have always happened. My point was the general level of behavior and discipline has declined, and as a result the probability of "moments" has increased.
There's two types of parents, and you can see both types in any grocery store.
The first kind let their kids run all around the store, and get into whatever they want to get into...
The second kind has the kids around the cart, and they are quiet and polite, and even help push the cart and watch after their younger siblings.
Guess which type parent had a kid fall into the gorilla exhibit?
We all have differing opinions on "good parenting". But I fail to see how parents that let their children run wild are not culpable when they run straight into the arms of trouble. At least partially.
You just can't[or won't] ever understand. There is nothing wrong with it, you just cannot understand. I'm not saying that a certain percentage of parents these days do most anything but parenting, but unless you've 'been there done that' you really just won't understand.
All things aside, until they can prove that the parents did not have an active role in the kid being in there, there's no reason to really get into the blame game from a perspective of oversight.
I have seen too many douchenozzle sperm donors and baby factories that would hold a kid over the enclosure for whatever dumbass reason.
Prove to me that the 3 year old climbed all that stuff and fell down into that enclosure on his own, and we can start debating parental monitoring.
I'll put a 40 on the boy having 'help', likely not malicious, on getting into the ape house.
Regardless of the "chit happens with kids" factor, at the end of the day, the parents are responsible for their child. This type of event is extraordinarily rare and there's a reason for that. To have such a thing happen takes gross negligence.
When I took my kids to the zoo I NEVER took my eyes off of them. Not because I was worried about them doing something like that, but because I'm always looking out for two legged threats. I don't let my kids run around in a crowd of people I don't know without me being within a few feet at all times.
I don't know what the reason was, but it was a screw up. So glad the kid survived. Seriously sucks they had to put the Gorilla down, but they 100% made the right call.
What do I have to understand to be able to observe a higher percentage of undisciplined children?
Oh the memories..... I would not argue the highlighted portion, but children are also just that:CHILDREN. Their mental abilities are lacking. As a parent you live and breath it 24/7. You never know what the best of them will do at any given moment.
What do I have to understand to be able to observe a higher percentage of undisciplined children?
Oh the memories..... I would not argue the highlighted portion, but children are also just that:CHILDREN. Their mental abilities are lacking. As a parent you live and breath it 24/7. You never know what the best of them will do at any given moment.
That's why parents have to be on top of them and their behavior. Has the DNA of human children changed so much over my lifetime that they're now an inherently more difficult to manage animal? I'm talking about the change, not about the basic fact that children need minding.
If your three year old yanks the family truckster into gear and it rolls down the street into another car, the parents insurance is liable for the damages. Now beings the kid's actions caused the gorillas death are the parents not liable for the "Replacement cost" of the gorilla.....
What do I have to understand to be able to observe a higher percentage of undisciplined children?
For starteRs a child's reasoning when they get excited
Has that changed over my lifetime?
Directly, probably not. What has changed is the societal view of what is appropriate in parenting, and (as el can be seen in this very thread) that everyone is a better parent than the next person even those that done have kids...thus if you feel that I'm being to strict and controlling of.my child and don't like it you call the cops and authorities who come and Make a scene all because you don't know how to.kind your own business
If Kid 2 isn't ready to stand still for a minute without a leash then he isn't ready to be out in public without one on one supervision. Whose responsibility is that?
If your three year old yanks the family truckster into gear and it rolls down the street into another car, the parents insurance is liable for the damages. Now beings the kid's actions caused the gorillas death are the parents not liable for the "Replacement cost" of the gorilla.....
Probably not, because the zoo did not have a a barrier sufficient to prevent a child from entering the enclosure
1 - a few years ago a child got into an enclosure with a female gorilla. She held the child and eventually walked it over to the paramedics and handed it to them. Clearly a maternal instinct and this here gorilla deserved the benefit of the doubt, at least initially, and he received that. By some reports, he too, was very nurturing to his brothers and sisters, but probably never nurtured one that was as small as this child. He just didn't know what to do. They had to save the child, but the gorilla did nothing wrong. A real shame.
2 - When some combat rifles were designed, they handed them to young teens, without any explanation of how to operate the weapon. "Here, make this fire." They did that to simulate an adult under stress of incoming rounds, etc. If a 14 year old can make the gun fire in XXX seconds, then the adult under stress can do it in XXX seconds. So, when designing these enclosures, does anyone look at it like a 4 year old? I've asked for advice on these forums and I write, "explain it to me like I'm a 4 year old." Slow it down, be specific. Same here. Design the enclosure like a 4 year old is trying to get in. Or out for that matter.
3 - Children - My wife and I took the children camping this weekend in Lancaster. We have good kids, but they argue sometimes, in public. They're old enough to know better, but still run and tease in the store. Youngest is 10. My wife observed how the Amish children don't carry on like that. We see it as kids being kids, but there's no nonsense with the young Amish children. They play, buy they aren't arguing, running around stores, etc. It's just not accepted in that culture.
I will also say this. Kids can get away from parents, but when you are in a zoo, or in a park, near water, highways, anywhere that a child can get into serious trouble quickly, the parent radar should be on high alert. These venues are not meant to be relaxing trips for the parents. We're going to Disney again - a total stress fest. Parents can vacation when the kids go to college. My wife can finally relax at the beach, because our youngest is 10. That's life.
You just can't[or won't] ever understand. There is nothing wrong with it, you just cannot understand. I'm not saying that a certain percentage of parents these days do most anything but parenting, but unless you've 'been there done that' you really just won't understand.
I've been there three times, and no, I cannot understand any parent letting their kid fall into a gorilla enclosure unless a terrorist attack, massive earthquake, or meteor strike was in progress. Come to think of it, not then either.
For the most part, people just don't parent anymore. It's a dying art that progresses right along with the dying culture.
Why not just make the third barrier an electric fence with 3 wires? Problem solved.
They had to kill the beast. I have no problem with that.
If the enclosure can keep an adult gorilla in it should be sufficient to keep people out???????
Obviously that's not the case
Actually that's exactly what the zookeeper in the article I linked states. That zoos need to rethink the safety barriers of their looking areas
What keeps the gorillas in is the 15 foot vertical concrete wall.
What keeps (or should keep) people out is a different system altogether. That's the one that needs modification. In this instance it was a 3 foot fence and some bushes
But I fail to see how parents that let their children run wild are not culpable when they run straight into the arms of trouble. At least partially.
I agree with that. But there are a hundred scenarios where this could have happened without the kid "running wild".
Sometimes crazy stuff happens. Only the very self-righteous, very ignorant or very sheltered deny that. (You're none of those, that's just for the benefit of folks reading this.)
Because if you had kids you'd recall one or two "oh schit" moments when they disappeared on your ass.
It happens to the best of parents.
Dave
If one doesn't have them then one can't understand.
A kid screwed up, a gorilla was killed because of it. The world kept right on churning round and round.
Similar fallacy: Since I'm not a tenor in a professional opera company I can't say Roseanne's rendition of The Star Spangled Banner was bad.
The only "fallacy" I see is you thinking one can watch their kids every second of every day and nothing unexpected will ever happen.
Your ignorance is based on the fact you have absolutely no experience to go on.
You're just making up your fantasy version of how things "should be"
Wrong. I'm observing how things have generally changed over time with respect to the standards of discipline and behavior to which parents hold their children.
1 - a few years ago a child got into an enclosure with a female gorilla. She held the child and eventually walked it over to the paramedics and handed it to them. Clearly a maternal instinct and this here gorilla deserved the benefit of the doubt, at least initially, and he received that. By some reports, he too, was very nurturing to his brothers and sisters, but probably never nurtured one that was as small as this child. He just didn't know what to do. They had to save the child, but the gorilla did nothing wrong. A real shame.
2 - When some combat rifles were designed, they handed them to young teens, without any explanation of how to operate the weapon. "Here, make this fire." They did that to simulate an adult under stress of incoming rounds, etc. If a 14 year old can make the gun fire in XXX seconds, then the adult under stress can do it in XXX seconds. So, when designing these enclosures, does anyone look at it like a 4 year old? I've asked for advice on these forums and I write, "explain it to me like I'm a 4 year old." Slow it down, be specific. Same here. Design the enclosure like a 4 year old is trying to get in. Or out for that matter.
3 - Children - My wife and I took the children camping this weekend in Lancaster. We have good kids, but they argue sometimes, in public. They're old enough to know better, but still run and tease in the store. Youngest is 10. My wife observed how the Amish children don't carry on like that. We see it as kids being kids, but there's no nonsense with the young Amish children. They play, buy they aren't arguing, running around stores, etc. It's just not accepted in that culture.
I will also say this. Kids can get away from parents, but when you are in a zoo, or in a park, near water, highways, anywhere that a child can get into serious trouble quickly, the parent radar should be on high alert. These venues are not meant to be relaxing trips for the parents. We're going to Disney again - a total stress fest. Parents can vacation when the kids go to college. My wife can finally relax at the beach, because our youngest is 10. That's life.
You're aware that male gorillas commonly kill their own young to stimulate the females to breed again right?
You just can't[or won't] ever understand. There is nothing wrong with it, you just cannot understand. I'm not saying that a certain percentage of parents these days do most anything but parenting, but unless you've 'been there done that' you really just won't understand.
I've been there three times, and no, I cannot understand any parent letting their kid fall into a gorilla enclosure unless a terrorist attack, massive earthquake, or meteor strike was in progress. Come to think of it, not then either.
For the most part, people just don't parent anymore. It's a dying art that progresses right along with the dying culture.
The kid didn't fall in. The kid went in with no illusion[in it's mind]. There is a valid reason why we don't hand the car/truck keys over to 'kids'.
Why not just make the third barrier an electric fence with 3 wires? Problem solved.
They had to kill the beast. I have no problem with that.
If the enclosure can keep an adult gorilla in it should be sufficient to keep people out???????
Obviously that's not the case
Actually that's exactly what the zookeeper in the article I linked states. That zoos need to rethink the safety barriers of their looking areas
What keeps the gorillas in is the 15 foot vertical concrete wall.
What keeps (or should keep) people out is a different system altogether. That's the one that needs modification. In this instance it was a 3 foot fence and some bushes
I see what you're saying now. And I agree..that's what I said about having a plexiglass creek 3-4 feet tall instead of an open rail fence
"Wrong. I'm observing how things have generally changed over time with respect to the standards of discipline and behavior to which parents hold their children."
No argument from here whatsoever. But until you've heard your own kids 'rationalization' multiple times for why he/she did this or that. You just can't understand.
But I fail to see how parents that let their children run wild are not culpable when they run straight into the arms of trouble. At least partially.
I agree with that. But there are a hundred scenarios where this could have happened without the kid "running wild".
Sometimes crazy stuff happens. Only the very self-righteous, very ignorant or very sheltered deny that. (You're none of those, that's just for the benefit of folks reading this.)
Witnesses stated she just turned her back for a couple of seconds to deal with another child
From what I've read, the child asked several times to go swimming with the gorilla. If true, he was clearly attracted to the enclosure and should have been closely watched or removed from the area.
But I fail to see how parents that let their children run wild are not culpable when they run straight into the arms of trouble. At least partially.
I agree with that. But there are a hundred scenarios where this could have happened without the kid "running wild".
Sometimes crazy stuff happens. Only the very self-righteous, very ignorant or very sheltered deny that. (You're none of those, that's just for the benefit of folks reading this.)
Witnesses stated she just turned her back for a couple of seconds to deal with another child
And that's totally plausible.
I'm continually amazed at how far my 18 month old can travel when I simply turn my back to grab grab a cup of coffee or something simple like taking off my shoes at the swimming pool
You're aware that male gorillas commonly kill their own young to stimulate the females to breed again right?
Actually, the silverback male is usually the primary caretaker of the young. The only time they kill is when another male has taken, or mated, with the mother. The father might then kill the child, so that the mother will go into "heat" and he can then mate with her, in order to reclaim her from the 2nd male. I do not recall a second male, or any female, being part of this incident.
the one report I read about this it went like this:
- Mom and kid are holding hands - Mom wants to take a picture, so kid now holds her pocket - Mom takes picture and then realizes kid is gone - Takes a few seconds to realize he went under the barrier and is crawling through bushes and goes over into the moat.
Yes, you can punch holes in this, but that, if it's true, is not bad parenting.
the one report I read about this it went like this:
- Mom and kid are holding hands - Mom wants to take a picture, so kid now holds her pocket - Mom takes picture and then realizes kid is gone - Takes a few seconds to realize he went under the barrier and is crawling through bushes and goes over into the moat.
Yes, you can punch holes in this, but that, if it's true, is not bad parenting.
I read the child stated multiple times that he wanted to swim with the gorilla. that's a red flag for a parent to stop taking selfies, and watch the child more closely, or remove them from the area.
the one report I read about this it went like this:
- Mom and kid are holding hands - Mom wants to take a picture, so kid now holds her pocket - Mom takes picture and then realizes kid is gone - Takes a few seconds to realize he went under the barrier and is crawling through bushes and goes over into the moat.
Yes, you can punch holes in this, but that, if it's true, is not bad parenting.
I read the child stated multiple times that he wanted to swim with the gorilla. that's a red flag for a parent to stop taking selfies, and watch the child more closely, or remove them from the area.
My 18 month old wants to touch every gun I have in my hands...guess I should just get rid of them all huh?
You're aware that male gorillas commonly kill their own young to stimulate the females to breed again right?
Actually, the silverback male is usually the primary caretaker of the young. The only time they kill is when another male has taken, or mated, with the mother. The father might then kill the child, so that the mother will go into "heat" and he can then mate with her, in order to reclaim her from the 2nd male. I do not recall a second male, or any female, being part of this incident.
Because it wasn't mentioned or seen on video meant one wasn't there?
the one report I read about this it went like this:
- Mom and kid are holding hands - Mom wants to take a picture, so kid now holds her pocket - Mom takes picture and then realizes kid is gone - Takes a few seconds to realize he went under the barrier and is crawling through bushes and goes over into the moat.
Yes, you can punch holes in this, but that, if it's true, is not bad parenting.
I read the child stated multiple times that he wanted to swim with the gorilla. that's a red flag for a parent to stop taking selfies, and watch the child more closely, or remove them from the area.
My 18 month old wants to touch every gun I have in my hands...guess I should just get rid of them all huh?
No. But do you leave the guns lying on the table and walk away, "just for a few seconds?"
You're aware that male gorillas commonly kill their own young to stimulate the females to breed again right?
Actually, the silverback male is usually the primary caretaker of the young. The only time they kill is when another male has taken, or mated, with the mother. The father might then kill the child, so that the mother will go into "heat" and he can then mate with her, in order to reclaim her from the 2nd male. I do not recall a second male, or any female, being part of this incident.
Because it wasn't mentioned or seen on video meant one wasn't there?
You need to get your Google on. He lived with two females.
Actually, the silverback male is usually the primary caretaker of the young. The only time they kill is when another male has taken, or mated, with the mother. The father might then kill the child, so that the mother will go into "heat" and he can then mate with her, in order to reclaim her from the 2nd male. I do not recall a second male, or any female, being part of this incident.
Calm down, Miss Fossey!
It's just a big fugkin' monkey. They'll make more.
the one report I read about this it went like this:
- Mom and kid are holding hands - Mom wants to take a picture, so kid now holds her pocket - Mom takes picture and then realizes kid is gone - Takes a few seconds to realize he went under the barrier and is crawling through bushes and goes over into the moat.
Yes, you can punch holes in this, but that, if it's true, is not bad parenting.
I read the child stated multiple times that he wanted to swim with the gorilla. that's a red flag for a parent to stop taking selfies, and watch the child more closely, or remove them from the area.
My 18 month old wants to touch every gun I have in my hands...guess I should just get rid of them all huh?
No. But do you leave the guns lying on the table and walk away, "just for a few seconds?"
I'm not allowed to clean guns on the table ever since my wife found out that hoppes improves the finish on furniture.
But there are several guns leaning in corners....interestingly enough she doesn't go near them, she just wants whatever firearm happens to be in my hand at the time
What do I have to understand to be able to observe a higher percentage of undisciplined children?
I don't know if the kid was undisciplined or not.
Kids do stupid schit. They did stupid schit in the 50's, and they do stupid schit today.
I'm just glad the only loss was a big fugkin' monkey.
Dave
The biggest tragedy in the whole incident is that the fella that punched the hole in the big ass money won't get to put that big ass monkey on his trophy wall
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