Ali is dead at 74

Bye....

Float like a butterfly......

RIP.

Bummer. May God bless and keep him

He was a pretty man.

A courageous man, I shall never forget him lighting the Olympic flame may he rest in peace.

like a lot of great artists, his mind was kinda whacky


but in his prime he was poetry in motion.

Back in 1958, in a Golden Gloves match in Chicago, my cousin, Francis Turley, knocked Cassius Clay down and lost to Clay in a split decision. Ali suffered the rest of his life from a couple cowboy punches to the noggin...

I liked him right up to the time when he turned muslim.

I saw Ali fight george chuvalo, Vancouver bc.... IIRC 1966-67??
The greatest fighter of all time.

If we had to name one, I'd pick him as the greatest athlete of the 20th Century, IMHO.

Didn't agree with his religion or his politics, but he went to jail for his beliefs.

If nothing else he was one of the most familiar Americans to Brits in the 1960's, with his round of bouts with Henry Cooper.

Advance to minute 12 to see Ali getting hit hard.



(And as an aside, of the two men Sir Henry Cooper came out ahead in the long run, enjoying a successful career after retirement...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Cooper )

Birdwatcher

RIP

Dammit He will missed.

Jim

That video posted by Birdwatcher reminded me of how fast and what a reach Ali had.
RIP.

I was a huge fan when I was a kid. RIP. I hope he found the Lord before he passed.

Great boxer no doubt.

Bigoted jackass of a human being. I've no respect for a man who claims to be a conscientious objector yet takes money to fight.

He could Box, but Draft Dogger!

I heard him say in an interview that his entire loud mouth, rhyming schtick was lifted from a wrestler named "Gorgeous George?"

If I remember correctly.

I know Clay was sentenced to prison for draft dodging, but I dont think he ever served any time. I remember the case went to court and he was granted immunity for being a minister.

I was told not to say anything about someone, if it wasnt good. So, I wont say anything about Cassius Clay.

fugg him

Glad the brain dead ass hole is finally dead!

Umm... I think he turned away from God, and chose Allah.

He will be missed !! Yeah like a dose of clap or hives

Not going to miss him frankly, but I'm of the opinion that nobody deserves the long process of disintegration he experienced. Guessing that a few knocks administered in the early years made a mess of his head and set the stage for his future.

Never had any respect for his self serving claim as a conscientious objector. He was a boxer, not a preacher. Others went to war in his absence. They wrote a blank check for America while he cashed checks resulting from his celebrity.

Today the news and with great assist, the black community holds him up as a legend. In their minds. Some even suggest he was a hero. Delusional ignorance should be classified as a handicap.

So long Cassius, don't let the door hit you on the backside on your way out.

He was a black Muslim with self induced Parkinson's.

Obama will have him up for the portrait on a $50 bill next.

That should be on his gravestone.

Cassius could take a punch, other than that he was just another NWA.

Only problem I have with Ali is his draft dodging, the man was a fantastic fighter.

32 years of Parkinson's........Damn rough ride.

another member of the Nation of Islam. No tears here.

Draft dodging Muslim. Not much to like or admire from where I sit. Also Birdwatcher....greatest athlete? You're joking, right? Ali couldn't carry Bo Jackson's jock strap.

I'm not sad at all to see him dead. Most forget what a dedicated anti White racist he was.

Obongo will probably order flags lowered to half-staff for this "hero" . Fugging draft dodger.

Mike

He was fun to watch as a boxer, but I always rooted against him, especially when he fought Frazier and Foreman. I always viewed him as a draft dodger and a racist. But I would never wish the Parkinson's thing on anyone.

The thing that I don't understand is the fact that he switched to Islam and claimed that it was against his religion to go to war. But if we look at all of the wars going on around the world, they all involve Muslims.

Good.

Unfortunately, Ali's legacy in boxing is the template of the loudmouth, showboat (black only), fighter/dancer.

Ali had power to go with his moves, which is why he was a great champion, but today's template fighters forget the power part and just go with the trash talkin, fight for points while you move backwards alla time bullshit, the epitome of which was Floyd Maybeather.

Hopefully, that era is over, but you never know with all the crooked judges out there.

Look at sports pre-Ali and post-Ali, and ask yourself, did his poor sportsmanship and low-class trash-talk make sports better or worse??! I don't think the change has been for the better....

They will argue forever over who was the greatest heavyweight boxing champion.
I still claim that based on their records and the actual fights, that title belongs to Joe Lewis.

Like several of Lewis's opponents, Ali would have out boxed Lewis.
Then Lewis would hit him.

Lewis won 66 of his 70 fights. 52 of those wins were knockouts. In twelve years Lewis defended his Heavyweight title 25 times. No one else even come close to doing that.
They tried to hang “Bum of the month club” on his record. But most of his opponents were top-ten ranked heavyweights.

This was an example of the racism Joe faced outside the ring.
It was a far different time in a world Ali never had to deal with. And Joe handled it with more class than any other black man of his era.

"Yes, Joe Louis is a credit to his race—the human race."[

I still can't believe he KO'd George Foreman, who was in his prime in 1974. His strategy for letting George punch himself out worked beautifully.

After that fight Ali never impressed me. Seemed to be quite a few fights where they just handed decisions to him because he was Ali.

I didnt like his pre/post fight antics either. Total Negroid.

I remember and won't miss him. He was an avowed enemy of the white race and completely irrelevant to my life. He was no hero.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. The whole Islam conversion/draft dodging/bullschit was just so he didn't have to go to Vietnam and he could make millions while others died in his place. He rates right up there with Jane Fonda on that one.

I'll be very curious if they look at his brain post-mortem and see if and what CTE had anything to do with his Parkinson's. It was certainly self induced. Hope the millions were worth it.

Best athlete of the 20th century? Not even in the top 10. Maybe in the top 3-5 boxers. Because you say you're the greatest of all time doesn't make it so.

Never met Ali. But I sat with Joe Frazier for about 5 or 10 minutes conversing in an Air Port in Philadelphia. So, I guess I shook the hand that smacked Ali around a little. That's my only connection. I was always rooting for Frazier.

Never liked Ali. He was a great fighter, but he is responsible for bringing trash talk into the forefront of pro sports. When a guy who fights for a living refuses to fight for his country, something is amiss.

Easy to find on youtube how he was a huge advocate of destroying white Christians. He was a huge phony who used hatred to justify being a draft dodger. Jane fonda and obama in one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxIv1yQPUuU

Draft dodging, anti-American entertainer.

Now compare him with Elvis, Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Bobby Jones, Patty Berg, Joe Louis, Jackie Robinson and a myriad of other Patriotic American athletes.

No comparison.

Shouldn't a good Muslim be in the ground before sundown. I've grown weary of the news coverage to a point of being disgusted.. I didn't like his mouth then and I don't like it now.
🍉

G

shrap, your cousin might have been tough, but he didn't give Ali Parkinson's disease. It is apparent to me the knockdown had little effect on Ali's health or career. Keep believing that cowboy fantasy, looks good on you.

i'm sure bammy and his ilk will be at the funeral front and center. meanwhile, our finest young men come home in boxes to almost no attention from he and his ilk and its business as usual. ali was a POS, plain and simple. i don't give a fugg how good he was at boxing. i am glad he's dead and lived a schitty life for many years. fugg him and toast his ass on a stick.

Several years ago someone produced a computer generated match between Clay and Marciano. Marciano won by a knockout and I believe it was in the eleventh round.

**bit of Language**

What a great name! Was he from Anaconda, or Butte?

Sycamore

Like the NFL guys and other boxers he likely suffered some from chronic traumatic brain injury along with Parkinson's which can also be caused by trauma though they are two different conditions.

A surgeon I worked with for twenty years died from Parkinson's last summer after about fifteen years of it. It made living very difficult for him.

Many years ago when I was in the Army, I had a platoon sgt. who had been a top heavyweight boxer with Fourth Army Boxing Team. He had also been a sparing partner against Rocky Marciano. Once one of us asked him, "Sergeant, what was it like when Marciano hit you full bore, no punches pulled?"

He thought a couple seconds and said, "It felt just like being shot in the chest with a .45."

L.W.

Great fighter, poor American

1969, 13th round

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Super_Fight

You know you're getting on, when 1969 is "several years ago"

He claimed to be a conscientious objector yet he was a Muslim, a bunch who can hardly be called anti war. His religion speaks louder than he did...and that takes some doing.

This thread desperately needed this post

Thx,

GTC

Ali WAS a racist; just like most of the people on this forum. He was also a product of his time. He was a very good fighter but much of his ability came from his athleticism and for this reason, his years of peak performance were limited. He was undoubtedly the best heavyweight since Joe Louis.
His opposition to the draft, while self serving, was also indicative of his time and largely a result of the influence on him by the Black Muslims. He is certainly not the first man to be unduly influenced by some form of religion or political dogma nor will he be the last.
As a boxer, he had his weaknesses. He always had trouble with fighters who could pressure himn constantly (Doug Jones, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton). In his second career (post lay-off) he actually seemed to be lacking a bit in self-confidence. This was even apparent in his fight with George Foreman. Cassius Clay would have taken George out four rounds earlier (I also believe, in a re-match, Foredman would have had a good chance if he learned anything from the first fight).
As a person, he may have been nothing special (just like most of us) but as a boxer, he was exceptional and would likely have won the title regardless of the era in which he competed. I Followed, avidly, his rise through the ranks and his winning of the tile. I wished he would have had the personal integrity and strength of character to resist the Black Muslim movement but he did not. He could still box though. GD

Devout Muslim yet cheated on his wife.
And lost the title 3 times.
And Angelo Dundee wrote most of his prefight "poetry"

Carmen Basilio was a gentleman and a hell of a fighter .

A Marine.


And wouldn't cooperate with the Mob when they ruled the game.

If ya wanna read about an American.....

I was not a fan, but parkinson's is not a pleasant thing, my Aunt had it- so I will not say anything further on the matter!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x8y_5eBZ4Yw

Roundup Montana

Great boxer. Lousy American, draft dodging, racist, totally classless, and a muslim on top of all that. He is not RIP. Not something muslims get to do.

This forum is full of racists. This forum is full of people whose values are warped by religious convictions of all sorts. You don't have to look far to find people who are lacking in class. In spite of this, most have some redeeming virtue and Ali was no exception. Many of his contemporaries (in boxing and in other sports) made the money they did because of his promotion. George Foreman, a devout Christian, maintains that Ali was intrumental in the growth of his ministry and said that he considered Ali, a Muslim, to have been a gift from God. George Foreman, by the way, is a man who demonstrates a great deal of class and is a gracious man.
Ali was not a draft dodger; he was a draft resister. Draft dodgers avoided the draft by bugging out or by contriving to take advantage of deferments; frequently purchased in one way or another. I, as a draftee, saw acceptance of the draft as a duty but I do not require that everyone else see things that way. It may be that I am in the minority. GD

I don't think it could be summed better.

RIP Mr. Ali.

JAN Draft Dodger with a big mouth!!

I didn't say he gave Ali, Parkinson's, I said he gave Ali something he wouldn't forget. This world need a few more Cowboys and a lot less Muslims...

He was an arrogant draft dodger. That's the part I remember.

Here's Sonny Liston tired of Ali's $hit. I love how calmly Liston pulls the pistol on him. They say it was blanks but it was 1964 and Liston was the champ who knows. The champ was playing craps and Ali wanted to run his mouth



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKLWAZhTFsQ

No, you're thinking of Dick Cheney, who got 5 (yes FIVE) draft deferments, and said "I had better things to do with my time".

Ali got the same release from the draft as Mitt Romney. For religious reasons, as a minister, or in Mitt's case a missionary.

Or maybe you are remembering Donald Trump, who got 5 (yes FIVE) draft deferments, and said In a 1997 interview with shock jock Howard Stern, how he had been “lucky” not to have contracted diseases when he was sleeping around.



Maybe Muhammad Ali should have been on the Republican ticket?

After the UFC fight tonight the announcer annoyed us. He said, "None of this would be possible without Mohammad Ali."

I say, "Give me a break."

I don't blame him for dodging the draft. His draft was 100% political, and it was an effort to suppress free speech. Moreover, they really intended he go to Vietnam and come back in a box.

There's much about him that was dispicable, much to not like. But they were trying to get him killed because they didn't like what he said (and often times I didn't like it either). But you don't kill a man for free speech, you kill those who would kill him for free speech.

Little piece of trivia. Ali was once the keynote speaker at a National KKK rally. He spoke on, and in favor of segregation.

Interesting that those on the forum who lean a bit left are defending Ali, and those on the right condemn him. The left has always been in support of those who stick their thumb in America's eye. The America is the worst crowd.

Draft Dodger and Conscientious Objector who got PAID to fight, WOuldn't fight for his country, but would for money and fame.
THEN, Our President orders flags lowered and American honors (as opposed to Military Honors) for his funeral!!

Col Scheafer, from Iran Hostage - 444 days in captivity and the Senior ranking man dies yesterday also. Not a word from Obama...

Yeah that conversion to Islam was certainly a well timed coincidence....another thing worth noting is the penchant blacks have for converting to Islam. This is a planned social upheaval. It gives them the feeling that they are not accountable for breaking the laws of infidels. It's ok to do so. They also are free to kill those who disagree with them. They are useful idiots. Anybody who paid any attention at all during the 60's, should be able to figure that out.

Well said! +1

shrap, my apologies. Your quote "Ali suffered the rest of his life from a couple cowboy punches to the noggin..." on post #11225576 kinda threw me. Operative term "suffered the rest of his life"

He endorsed Reagan in '84. Said, "He want's to keep God in the schools and that's good enough.".

Also supported other conservatives

Draft dodging during the Vietnam War was a whole different ball game. I had already served my hitch and fully supported those who served in that Clusterphuck. And understood those who did not.

I wonder how many would be fine with their sons/daughters being forced to fight that same war now. Amazes me how many still don't understand that your country and your government aren't the same thing.

I'll miss him like last week's hemorrhoids.

Get used to it, in the Trump administration.

If you like coincidences, you'll LOVE these:

In February 1962, when Mr. Cheney was classified as 1-A -- available for service -- he was doing poorly at Yale. But the military was taking only older men at that point, and like others who were in college at the time, Mr. Cheney seemed to have little concern about being drafted.

In June, he left Yale. After returning home to Casper, a small city in east-central Wyoming, he worked as a lineman for a power company.

At that point, the Vietnam War was still just a glimmer on the horizon. In 1962, only 82,060 men were inducted into the service, the fewest since 1949. Mr. Cheney was eligible for the draft but, as he said during his confirmation hearings in 1989, he was not called up because the Selective Service System was taking only older men.

But by 1963, ferment in Vietnam was rising. Mr. Cheney enrolled in Casper Community College in January 1963 -- he turned 22 that month -- and sought his first student deferment on March 20, according to records from the Selective Service System. After transferring to the University of Wyoming at Laramie, he sought his second student deferment on July 23, 1963.

On Aug. 7, 1964, Congress approved the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which allowed President Lyndon B. Johnson to use unlimited military force in Vietnam. The war escalated rapidly from there.

Just 22 days later, Mr. Cheney married his high school sweetheart, Lynne. He sought his third student deferment on Oct. 14, 1964.

In May 1965, Mr. Cheney graduated from college and his draft status changed to 1-A. But he was married, which offered him some protection.

In July, President Johnson announced that he was doubling the number of men drafted. The number of inductions soared, to 382,010 in 1966 from 230,991 in 1965 and 112,386 in 1964.

Mr. Cheney obtained his fourth deferment when he started graduate school at the University of Wyoming on Nov. 1, 1965.

On Oct. 6, 1965, the Selective Service lifted its ban against drafting married men who had no children. Nine months and two days later, Mr. Cheney's first daughter, Elizabeth, was born. On Jan. 19, 1966, when his wife was about 10 weeks pregnant, Mr. Cheney applied for 3-A status, the ''hardship'' exemption, which excluded men with children or dependent parents. It was granted.

In January 1967, Mr. Cheney turned 26 and was no longer eligible for the draft.

OT a little but really interesting.

Many years ago I found a deserted homestead in my wanderings. It had been ransacked, windows broken, etc. All the peoples possessions seemed to be there, clothes and all, even food in the refrigerator! Truck in the driveway, wringer washer in the laundry room, tractor in the barn, canned food in the underground cellar. Judging by the newspapers it had been ten years since the residents had been there.

In light of the condition of the place and length of absence I felt ok looking around. In the upstairs room I found a shelf with each years important papers neatly tied with string. Some loose papers were already about, and one was a letter from a neighbor asking the war department to let these folks keep their son on the farm. It was an interesting looking around. Almost as if aliens had abducted the old couple.

Yesterday about noon my buddy, who owns a funeral business told me that he was called at home to come into work and he embalmed Ali. I guess this was a real media circus and they had to be secretive about where he was. He was flown out today so safe to mention it.

Thought that was an interesting thing. Certainly his most high-profile case.

Yet a lot of folks on this forum admire these same qualities in a presidential candidate...

Cheers/bg

Sycamore- am not a Cheney fan, and never was. You will find that he right tends to hold a guys feet to the fire when he f u ck s up. They differ considerably from the left, in this regard.

I'm not a Cheney fan either. Don't remember anybody holding Cheney's feet to the fire, in fact they made him Sec'y of Defense. Then asked him to find a good candidate for VP, surprise, he found himself.

You might check with Senator "Family Values" Vidder down in LA, and ask him how hot his feet are.

It's all going to better now, now that we have a New York Liberal as the presumptive Republican Nominee. Our team will win, no matter who we have to vote for. Then we can excuse everything they do, by saying "at least he isn't Hillary"

Sycamore

Not talking about the GOP elite. I forgot to say GFY....sorry.

I offer no critiques about MA's social positions, politics or draft situation. He was a man, a father and a sportsman. May he RIP.

If called, I believe (and sure hope) that I would have gone to serve. From the WW2, Korea and Vietnam situations I have known a number of guys who declared themselves conscientious objectors and faced the resultant heat. That was not an easy situation for any of them - am not saying it should have been otherwise - but not serving in the military when called led to some negative consequences in their lives and careers. The same held true for MA. So be it.

He was a very good pugilist, but certainly not the "greatest". Because his personal antics and boasting drew a lot of attention to his bouts and career, much of that effect bled over to some overblown opinions regarding MA as a prize fighter. In the world of sport and entertainment, nothing new there. We can be gullible.

From watching many of his fights, it is my view that his blessings of speed, reach and punching accuracy made him a winner over most heavyweights of his day. He was not a power puncher which, alone, removes him from contention to be the greatest.

And, other than his head movement and "lean back" technique, he was not a very good defensive fighter with the rest of his body. He sometimes resorted to "covering up" and taking shots. In all, he had to absorb punishment in order to get his licks in, and he had a good chin in the moment and good recuperative powers during a fight. No surprise that brain damage resulted from such a career.

If one takes a look at the array of skills required for a person to be a complete great athlete, it is clear that MA did not demonstrate some of those. Maybe he never took the time or had the opportunity - but they simply were not demonstrated. People who profess to truly know sports and undertsand overall athletic prowess should know better than to go to that extreme in describing MA in such terms.

Never heard of him. Pffft! Big deal.

Draft dodging Muslim can simply suck my cock... shame folks are even registering this....

Well,..his funeral isn't till Friday, so look forward to a whole week of "the Greatest"...

How did his SCOTUS case come out?