Well, it finally got published: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/u...&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Looks like he did a fair job.

Sure reads different when you actually know the folks discussed, and have weathered the same storms and squalls here for decades,....that observation from a somewhat confident "newcomer". I can see a LOT of John Ladd's East boundary from where I sit typing,...and for whatever reason have had more experience playing midwife than that of coroner / undertaker. Have smiled my way through more than a few baby deliveries out and around this always amazing and amusing zone.
I've actually lost a couple of shirts,...guess they got "swaddled?".

GOOD barometer,...during any contemporary political round robin, when the opportunity presents itself, quietly ask how those participating feel about the loss of Rob Krentz.
BAD news,...the blank looks that you mostly get back.

It's sadly drifting that way as regards Brian Terry, too.

Ben, thanks for putting this up.

GTC

The wall is a toad. Very expensive and it won't work. A dumb idea from Donald our next great leader.

Te Wall is metaphor for actually enforcing the border.

Thanks for the link,

Again, the only solution seems to be enforcement (perhaps combined with some rearrangement of immigration law) , which costs money, which the American public (represented by "Congress") refuses to pay for or acknowledge the need for.

Oh wait, I've only been seeing this since I moved close to the border in '63 as a kid.

Nothing has changed in all these years.

You border folks, stay safe.

Geno

Personally I think a much better idea would be mine fields along the border

The Mexican side of the border..along with a free fire zone

I'm hoping when Trump says build a wall that he also means significantly increasing border batrols as well.

I can't say I believe a wall will ever be built but the idea of a wall is its an obstacle to slow them down and have a point of entry that a patrol can focus on as opposed to having to thousands of acres

If we just build a wall and keep border patrol on a skeleton crew of gatekeepers, then it will be completely useless.

Exactly. Trump intentionally speaks on a 7th grade level (have you been to WalMart lately, LOL). The man is no idiot. When he says build a wall, he means he will stop illegal immagration. He is certainly not one to throw money at inneffective solutions. You can bet his solution will come from those in the trenches. Thats his standard OP.

This^^^^^

It's not so much the wall as it is the enforcement of the law. the law that says if you want to come to America there are rules you must follow. If The Donald can do that, then a huge expensive wall is probably not needed.

My bet is the guys along the border are so tired of a non effective federal government they have resigned themselves to forever having to deal with trespassers and thieve on their land and factor it in to the high cost of doing business.

kwg

Trump better build something that resembles a wall if he is elected - doesn't matter if its effective or not.


I don't think the public is going to settle for a metaphor and marginal results.

That "wall" better also be found in airport terminals, at arrivals.

Fast track the departures.

....no you don't

Seems there's always better brain trust available here, proportionate to distance from the actual line,.....anybody from Nome care to REALLY get us up to speed on what's needed ?

GTC

Preach it, bro !

if you're capable of coherent thought, go back and read what I posted again - I didn't say what was needed, I said the man has promised a wall and that is the peoples expectations.

Greg,

sometimes you are a funny guy!

A wall sounds easy until one sees what one has to do to put in the footing!

Geno

I don't believe anything that the New York Time puts out! A wall could be built but not if the liberals are in charge. I read an estimate put out our liberal government a few years ago for construction of the wall and the cost per mile was unbelievable. According to our government the construction of the wall would cost much more than the cost of building a 6 lane interstate highway that included the cost of buying right-of-way and bridge construction. Our liberal government would probably bid out the construction and China would win the bid. Companies in the US wouldn't stand a chance because they would have to pay union wages and budget for the required bribes. I forgot about all the pork that would have to be added to the bill for buying votes. Israel has built a pretty good wall and is going to improve it by adding concrete underground to prevent tunneling. If we do get a wall built and the invaders tunnel under or get over our wall I'm all for setting mines. I found the a link yet for the cost estimate I was talking about.

Looks like Trump will need to dumb it down more for Losthighway to follow. Not surprising that idiot can't grasp a concept.

Wonder if this doesn't need a bump.

Wonder if anybody all horned up for drones on the border might trouble himself to read this fine article.

...and thanks again, Ben and Crystal !

GTC

One huge step....if you hire illegals....you are prosecuted.
"Take the sugar off the table and they won't come to the picnic."

Over 40 years ago, shortly after our marriage, we visited her family down in Phoenix and Nogales. Subject was illegals and the problems they cause. Everyone knew locals were hiring them, but no one seemed to care. I suggested punishing those hiring illegals. That went over like a lead balloon. Some of these inlaws were in local law-enforcement. Well here we are. Nothing changed.

edit to add "except it's worse now."

They'll be a lot of 30-80 year old 7th graders, pissed about not being able to visit that wall.

Thanks Ben. The guy wrote a better article than I was expecting.

The part about the reduction being mostly "Juan and Maria, looking for work" and the increase in the drug smugglers is what folks have seen in the Trans Pecos as well.

I'm surprised he wrote it and the NYT printed it.

And that's actually an anticipated excuse for when the stupid wall never gets built.

up

LOL Donald has Zero chance of ever building a wall and only a fool would truly believe it was going to be possible, FMD !!

It's not difficult to understand why those ranchers (and others) living and working along the border, weary of the long-term problem and full-up of what has not worked, are saying that a wall is not the answer. Also not difficult to understand why many in the US who live more distant from the border think that a deep/high/strong wall is a good move with promise for success.

Those who live along the border know much more about the ongoing traffic and related problem issues in the area, but that specific knowledge does not necessarily make them any smarter about how to solve the overall illegal immigration and smuggling problems. And, some simplistic perceptions on the part of those more distant does not mean that they won't have good ideas regarding solutions.

The feelings and experiences are most acute for those living along the border (and I feel for those folks), so their situation and needs cannot be ignored. That does not mean that those more distant do not experience significant concerns and anxieties about the ongoing mess because, in large part, extensive illegal immigration is a national issue - in terms legal, economic, political, social and who knows what else?

Metaphor or not, at this stage of disaster a very strong physical barrier (almost impregnable) seems an important aspect of the solution - to be complemented by extensive border line policing, strict and swift enforcement of the immigration laws on the books, sanctions against those who knowingly employ illegals, curtailment of the massive government $$ giveaways to illegals, etc., etc.

Of course, such comprehensive action for the good of the US would require another very important component - widespread COMMON WILL to get it done. That would mean overcoming the evils of greed (financial and political), putting aside the special-interest agendas (ethnic/cultural and otherwise) a commitment to spend the $$, and willingness for cooperation - between those living the border life and those on the far sides of the US - as well as those in between.

Wish his article had gone that direction.

So simple.

Donal is going to build the wall and keep you liberal hippies out.


How's that Australian immigration policy?

There it is...

Seems, by and large, to be sadly lacking.

The infrastructure we've already BOUGHT, and have in place, could be vastly more effective, under proper management and sensible ROEs.

GTC

It's been going on for a lot longer than 40 years or so:

"The first, between 1917 and 1921, left the Mexican government dissatisfied because many Braceros experienced discrimination in the US, and some wound up with few savings because of charges they incurred at farmer-owned stores."

"A Chamber of Commerce spokesperson summed up these arguments in testimony to Congress in 1926: "We, gentlemen, are just as anxious as you are not to build the civilization of California or any other western district upon a Mexican foundation. We take him because there is nothing else available. We have gone east, west, north, and south and he is the only man-power available to us." The Farm Bureau asserted that "California's specialized agriculture [requires] a kind of labor able to meet the requirements of hard, stoop, hand labor, and to work under the sometimes less advantageous conditions of heat, sun, dust, winds, and isolation."" (my highlighting)

From this article:
https://migration.ucdavis.edu/rmn/more.php?id=1112

Loads of interesting stuff there and on other sites. Like this from the same article, regarding penalties for hiring illegals:

"However, growers had the upper hand in Congress, which in 1951 approved PL-78, the Mexican Farm Labor Program. In 1952, the Immigration and Nationality Act was enacted and, while it made harboring illegal aliens a felony punishable by a $2,000 fine and a prison term of five years, it also included the so-called Texas proviso, which asserted that employing an illegal alien is not harboring. Thus, there were no penalties on US employers who knowingly hired illegal workers." (notice it wasn't the "California" proviso" )

A quick search:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bracero+program&t=ffsb&ia=about

This history might help some of those members in other areas of the country that haven't heard about how the situation came about and how it actually continues.


Now, the smuggling issue is somewhat different. Anything, I repeat Anything in demand, illegal, and somewhat unavailable thru native sources will be smuggled into the country. Make screws illegal (used brads and nails people) and screws will get smuggled in. Make green tea illegal, and green tea will be smuggled in.

It's actually a very capitalist idea, based on supply and demand and risk taking to make a profit.

Do I support making drugs legal? mmmmmmm, good question. I'd have to study up on that one, but one thing's for sure, the way it is now we sure are financing a large part of the Mexican economy (a stimulus program of a different sort?)

Hope the links help answer some questions for "inquiring minds"

Geno

Greg,

When are you going to stand for election?

Geno

PS, I know, the dogs couldn't stand you being away so long.

PPS, nice story about the "coproliths" in the other thread. You're a man after my own heart.

Which side of the Rio Grande would you like the wall built on? Or right down the middle?

How far out into the Pacific from the Tijuana/San Diego border should the wall go?

Gulf of Mexico and across the Florida Strait? How high and deep? All the way to the sea floor?

I'm not being facetious or snarky, these are honest questions regarding how and where the "wall" will be built.

Yes, there are sections where a more substantial barricade than the fence that exists might help. But again, build a wall to stop something that's in demand from getting in, and someone will find a way around the wall, under it, over it, through another country to the north, etc. It may raise the price of the items in demand, but those items WILL get in.

Geno

Old, local and very STRAIGHT TRUTH lore :

Stand alone battery powered "sensors", transmitting line of sight to repeaters, that forwarded their encrypted burst transmissions to a regional "HQ", were deployed by the BP quite a long time ago here, as Gulf War 1 wound down, the defense "pipeline" was full, several borders in the ME had been successfully defended by em', ....SOMEBODY had to take delivery of the surplus contract completion product.

This technology was GOOD,...algorythms that can detect two leggeds, while ignoring four leggeds and large birds.

While Ike spun in his grave, every mid grade azzwhole in the BP organization was given the goods on how this stuff works, and within DAYS,....not weeks, DAYS the "pattern" of incursions changed.

Hazing cattle in front of a "Load" became all the rage, ....cutting fences in front of them only making some kinda' warped, twisted sense to the Mule's honchos.

Oh, and by the way,....the BP "troops" that were loyal and "trying to stay ahead" of this sell out had NO,....lemme repeat that encryption on the frequencies their hand held and vehicular SBX radios were chipped for. Solid and very skilled radio operators could catch the encrypted transmissions that the cartelista field people had,...FM radio stations were re-playing our BP's commo.

I'm all for high tech,....but it would seem that some savvy mounted men might be better capable than some of the endless clown shows we've witnessed here.

This is ALL on the record, Sheriff Larry Dever spoke at some LENGTH to Congress about these screw ups, as did Zack Taylor. hell, I was writing about it hear quite a while back myself, so was Ben, and a few others.

This border is not some video game that one turns on and off as one pleases,...it's what it is 24-7, and given that demand WILL be supplied, a major re-think is in order.

GTC

That is about as succinct as truth gets!

I grow weary, Ben,...
Drones, minefields,... eminent domain, buy us out and run us off ?

Anyhoo, hope you're getting a bit of this liquid gold,...albeit way late in terms of getting a crop, it's still welcome.

GTC

You all know that a border wall would work, China built a wall 2000 years ago, and so far not one dirty, filthy Mexican has crossed the border.

Neither. Waste of money (lots) and time (lots, too). I prefer a comprehensive solution involving multiple sensor triggers and surveillance technology, armed drones and response teams of agents.

Do you have the remotest CLUE as to just how many tens of millions
...( probably more, insert the "b-word") of our hard earned has already:
A.) been invested in this kinda' gear, and how much of it is already deployed.
B.) How much of it has been ordered, built, purchased and PARKED, to sit idle in big old BP parking lots ?

Who watches the watchers, Mister ?

How do you propose to implement the sea change that will be needed to get alla' this Buck Rogers gear into proper use ? Please clarify as well just what lays behind the clear disregard for proper use of assets ALREADY IN THE INVENTORY.....

Curious....have you ever WORKED on UAVs, or been involved with em in the hands on sense ?

GTC

Link: http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015...rian-terry-gets-away-with-slap-on-wrist/



by ILDEFONSO ORTIZ11 Aug 2015432

The ringleader of the rip crew that murdered U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in 2010 received a slap on the wrist thanks to federal prosecutors in Arizona. The prosecutors asked that he only receive a 30 year prison sentence instead of a possible life term in prison or a possible death sentence.
Brian Terry, a member of an elite tactical unit, was killed on December 14, 2010, in a fierce firefight with a rip crew of gunmen who had been trying to rob Mexican drug traffickers. In the aftermath of the shootout authorities learned that some of the weapons used to kill Agent Terry were part of the infamous Fast and Furious operation. Under this operation the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives (ATF) was allowing Mexican cartel members to purchase weapons in order to trace them to their source. Instead the agency lost thousands of weapons that fell into the hands of the Sinaloa Cartel.

According to court records obtained by Breitbart Texas, federal prosecutors asked that all of the charges against Rosario Rafael “El Pariente” Burboa Alvarez be dismissed except for one and that the sentence be 360 months in prison with credit given for time served. The story was initially reported by KVOA’s Michel Marizco and Lupita Murillo.

Burboa was described as a recruiter who hired out rip crews to rob Mexican cartel smugglers and paid them once the robbery was done.

The sentence was taken with great insult by the National Border Patrol Council which is the union that represents border patrol agents.

“Sickening this happened at all, but just another slap in the face that it was announced on Brian Terry’s Birthday,” NBPC said in a statement. “Honor First Brian. Your government many not seek the justice that you deserve, but your brothers and sisters in green will always remember.”

Brian Terry’s brother, Kent Terry, has been outspoken on the role of Eric Holder, the Department of Justice and the ATF in Brian’s death and the ongoing attempts to cover up information relating to this case and Fast and Furious. Responding to an inquiry from Breitbart Texas’ Bob Price, Kent Terry said, “Bob, it saddens me that the DOJ would even make a plea deal with a man that wasn’t even there that night. What information did he give..?”

“So now he will serve 27 years of a 30 year sentence, allowing for time already served, and we can’t even get answers for why these guns where put there to begin with..sad!” the surviving brother said.

Price has been writing about the murder of Agent Terry starting on the day Terry died in 2010.

According to KVOA, “Burboa’s 30 year sentence is in line with the sentence handed to Manuel Osorio-Arellanes, the man wounded during the firefight. Osorio-Arellanes faced life but was ultimately sentenced to 30 years in 2012. Jaime Avila, Jr., the Operation Fast and Furious gun buyer who purchased the two AK-47s found at the murder scene was also sentenced in 2012. He received a 57 month sentence.”

Speaking on his brother’s birthday in a Facebook post, Kent Terry said, “Happy 45th birthday to my Brother in Heaven. To those that don’t know Brian, he’s a Marine, law enforcement here in Michigan for Ecorse and Lincoln Park.”

“But that wasn’t good enough,” Kent Terry continued, “so he joined the Border Patrol and then there tactical unit known as BORTAC. Brian lost his life in the line of duty by an Illegal alien armed with guns from the FAST&FURIOUS scandal by this government administration and ATF, etc.. Brian you are missed brother..your on my mind 24/7 always! Love you and miss ya B!! God bless a American Hero!”

(L-R) Michelle Terry-Balogh, Kelly Terry-Willis, Josephine Terry, Kent Terry. Photo Courtesy of Kelly Terry Willis.
The family of Brian Terry during the unveiling of the statue honoring their son and brother. The statue is housed at the Brian A. Terry Border Patrol Station in Bisbee, AZ. (L-R) Michelle Terry-Balogh, Kelly Terry-Willis, Josephine Terry, Kent Terry. Photo Courtesy of Kelly Terry Willis.

Ildefonso Ortiz is an award winning journalist with Breitbart Texas you can follow him on Twitter and on Facebook.

crickets ?

Yup, sure looks to be crickets, don't it.

Do you not understand? He can say "build a wall" in one sentence. He cannot fit pages of enforcement changes, manpower changes, procedural changes, etc. into one convenient sentence in a speech. IT IS A METAPHOR.

To build a wall is to enforce a wall. A three strand fence would make a fine "wall" if it had a heavily patrolled jeep track along it, lots of manpower, new rules of engagement, speedy prosecutions and deportations to back it up.

I'm pretty sure if the man wants to build a "wall" against illegal immigration across our southern border it will work no matter the physical form.

Next week we will try to learn the meaning of simile!

Well said,...read you 5 X 5 !

Bearing in mind, as well that a LOT of the infrastructure's ALREADY in place.

still waiting on some answers from this fella that get's all whiny about "name calling" after calling one out as a "Hillary Voter".