I have long considered this very same scenario as possible. Long but worth reading imo.
MATTHEW BRACKEN is a former Navy SEAL (BUD/S Class 105), a Constitutionalist, and a self-described “freedomista”. He’s the author of several books, including Enemies Foreign and Domestic. This is the first part in a series of different author’s thoughts on the next civil war. Here’s what Bracken sees as a potential scenario for the next American Civil War.The Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights does not “grant” Americans the right to armed self-defense, it simply recognizes and affirms this God-given human right. The Constitution, including the Bill or Rights, is a very succinct document that was written in plain English intended to be fully understandable by ordinary citizens, requiring no interpretation by judges. Article III of the Constitution discusses the responsibilities, powers and limitations of the Judiciary, including the Supreme Court.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that the Supreme Court is a super-legislature authorized to amend the Bill of Rights by a simple majority vote among its nine lifetime-appointed justices. In fact, Article III Section 2 explicitly grants to Congress the power to regulate which cases the Supreme Court may adjudicate at all. However, in the current political climate, with a toothless Congress abdicating its power to the Executive and Judicial branches, it is unlikely that the Supreme Court will be reined in and confined within its Constitutional limits.
My scenario for a second American civil war involves a Hillary Clinton victory in November 2016, followed in 2017 by the appointment of a Supreme Court justice politically to the left of Ruth Bader Ginsberg. The Second Amendment will then be gutted using a specious argument such as that the militia has “evolved” into the modern National Guard, meaning that there is no longer a right for private citizens to individually keep or bear arms. Liberal politicians and the collaborating liberal mainstream media will be in full-throated agreement with this false interpretation of the Second Amendment.
Subsequently, some states will ban semi-automatic pistols and rifles capable of taking a detachable magazine, meaning that nearly all semi-automatic firearms will become “illegal” with the stroke of a pen. Firearms confiscation raids against gun collectors and outspoken “Right to Keep and Bear Arms” activists will then take place with the intended purpose being to strike fear into holdouts. But instead of forcing gun owners into compliance, the confiscation raids will be the trigger for a new civil war. There will be casualties among both citizens and law enforcement as these confiscation raids are increasingly met with armed resistance.
The First Amendment will likewise be gutted, using the argument that the “bitter clingers” who are still advocating the “obsolete” interpretation of the Second Amendment are supporting terrorism when they argue that law enforcement has no valid legal or moral reason to engage in gun confiscation raids. Freedom-oriented writers will declare that the federal government is in breach of contract with the people, because the rogue Supreme Court had no authority to unilaterally nullify key elements of the Bill of Rights.
Millions of Americans who still support the original interpretation of the Second Amendment will consider those who advocate the new interpretation to be traitors and domestic enemies of the Constitution. Writers who argue that the new interpretation of the Second Amendment is invalid, and that citizens are therefore morally justified in opposing the new gun laws by force of arms will be arrested for “inciting violence” and “encouraging terrorism.” Websites which promulgate these views will be banned and shut down.
At that point, with no other options available to oppose the emerging hard tyranny, a guerrilla insurgency will emerge, and some of those responsible for limiting the Bill of Rights will become victims of sniper attacks. Targeted individuals will include national politicians, prominent “journalists” and federal law enforcement personnel who vocally support or even simply enforce the new gun bans. These deadly sniper attacks will typically involve a single shooter firing a single shot from long range. Federal law enforcement will be given the impossible task of predicting who will become the next sniper from among scores of millions of Americans. Gun confiscation raids and arrests for “inciting violence” will escalate, and so will the retaliatory sniper attacks.
The start of Civil War Two will probably be pegged to the assassination of a prominent judge or politician who is held responsible by “constitutional originalists” for invalidating the First and Second Amendments. The new tyranny will not back down in the face of these sniper attacks, but will double down in its efforts to disarm the resistance. Arrests and disappearances of “constitutional extremists” will be countered with even more sniper attacks against key supporters of the new tyranny. Civil War Two could resemble the “Dirty War” in Argentina during the 1970s, with recalcitrant “constitutionalists” becoming the victims of secret government special-action units. It’s difficult to imagine the final outcome of an American “dirty civil war,” but it’s impossible to imagine the forces of tyranny successfully disarming the American people.
It’s well known that Switzerland has never been invaded by a foreign power, largely because of its national policy of providing adult male military reservists with modern battle rifles, which they keep at home for their entire lives. It’s less well understood that Switzerland has also never seen the emergence of a tyranny, and for the same reason: a would-be tyrant would not survive for long in Switzerland. Likewise, would-be tyrants in the United States might have a strong desire to disarm the American people, but any widespread attempts to do so will, at the very least, result in a prolonged and bloody dirty civil war.
“…We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security….”
The Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights does not “grant” Americans the right to armed self-defense, it simply recognizes and affirms this God-given human right. The Constitution, including the Bill or Rights, is a very succinct document that was written in plain English intended to be fully understandable by ordinary citizens, requiring no interpretation by judges. Article III of the Constitution discusses the responsibilities, powers and limitations of the Judiciary, including the Supreme Court.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that the Supreme Court is a super-legislature authorized to amend the Bill of Rights by a simple majority vote among its nine lifetime-appointed justices. In fact, Article III Section 2 explicitly grants to Congress the power to regulate which cases the Supreme Court may adjudicate at all. However, in the current political climate, with a toothless Congress abdicating its power to the Executive and Judicial branches, it is unlikely that the Supreme Court will be reined in and confined within its Constitutional limits.
My scenario for a second American civil war involves a Hillary Clinton victory in November 2016, followed in 2017 by the appointment of a Supreme Court justice politically to the left of Ruth Bader Ginsberg. The Second Amendment will then be gutted using a specious argument such as that the militia has “evolved” into the modern National Guard, meaning that there is no longer a right for private citizens to individually keep or bear arms. Liberal politicians and the collaborating liberal mainstream media will be in full-throated agreement with this false interpretation of the Second Amendment.
Subsequently, some states will ban semi-automatic pistols and rifles capable of taking a detachable magazine, meaning that nearly all semi-automatic firearms will become “illegal” with the stroke of a pen. Firearms confiscation raids against gun collectors and outspoken “Right to Keep and Bear Arms” activists will then take place with the intended purpose being to strike fear into holdouts. But instead of forcing gun owners into compliance, the confiscation raids will be the trigger for a new civil war. There will be casualties among both citizens and law enforcement as these confiscation raids are increasingly met with armed resistance.
The First Amendment will likewise be gutted, using the argument that the “bitter clingers” who are still advocating the “obsolete” interpretation of the Second Amendment are supporting terrorism when they argue that law enforcement has no valid legal or moral reason to engage in gun confiscation raids. Freedom-oriented writers will declare that the federal government is in breach of contract with the people, because the rogue Supreme Court had no authority to unilaterally nullify key elements of the Bill of Rights.
Millions of Americans who still support the original interpretation of the Second Amendment will consider those who advocate the new interpretation to be traitors and domestic enemies of the Constitution. Writers who argue that the new interpretation of the Second Amendment is invalid, and that citizens are therefore morally justified in opposing the new gun laws by force of arms will be arrested for “inciting violence” and “encouraging terrorism.” Websites which promulgate these views will be banned and shut down.
At that point, with no other options available to oppose the emerging hard tyranny, a guerrilla insurgency will emerge, and some of those responsible for limiting the Bill of Rights will become victims of sniper attacks. Targeted individuals will include national politicians, prominent “journalists” and federal law enforcement personnel who vocally support or even simply enforce the new gun bans. These deadly sniper attacks will typically involve a single shooter firing a single shot from long range. Federal law enforcement will be given the impossible task of predicting who will become the next sniper from among scores of millions of Americans. Gun confiscation raids and arrests for “inciting violence” will escalate, and so will the retaliatory sniper attacks.
The start of Civil War Two will probably be pegged to the assassination of a prominent judge or politician who is held responsible by “constitutional originalists” for invalidating the First and Second Amendments. The new tyranny will not back down in the face of these sniper attacks, but will double down in its efforts to disarm the resistance. Arrests and disappearances of “constitutional extremists” will be countered with even more sniper attacks against key supporters of the new tyranny. Civil War Two could resemble the “Dirty War” in Argentina during the 1970s, with recalcitrant “constitutionalists” becoming the victims of secret government special-action units. It’s difficult to imagine the final outcome of an American “dirty civil war,” but it’s impossible to imagine the forces of tyranny successfully disarming the American people.
It’s well known that Switzerland has never been invaded by a foreign power, largely because of its national policy of providing adult male military reservists with modern battle rifles, which they keep at home for their entire lives. It’s less well understood that Switzerland has also never seen the emergence of a tyranny, and for the same reason: a would-be tyrant would not survive for long in Switzerland. Likewise, would-be tyrants in the United States might have a strong desire to disarm the American people, but any widespread attempts to do so will, at the very least, result in a prolonged and bloody dirty civil war.
“…We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security….”
Very good read. It would be nice that those that have trouble understanding the difference between 'self and evident' and 'self righteous' could let it sink in. I still hold out hope, as I must, that my children can live their adult lives as Americans, without grave hardship. But I watch now, all the time.
Too late to vote them out, too soon to shoot them.
Too late to vote them out, too soon to shoot them.
How soon is soon? I'll bring the ammo!
Too late to vote them out, too soon to shoot them.
For the first time I can remember, I am in disagreement my friend.
We will be heading to a very tumultuous period in our history - no matter who becomes president. The breakdown of society, rules, standards and norms is a purposeful act at erasing all things in order to build a new order in the image of socialism and globalism. Trump will slow it down, Hilldog will speed it up.
All great societies come to an end - we are entering that point.
This is why I am still trying to decide between an M-14/M1A or an M21 with sniper scope.
This is why I am still trying to decide between an M-14/M1A or an M21 with sniper scope.
Or know what you have.
Oh I know what I have, just need one more!
Very interesting indeed. And its the only successful methodology as far as I can tell. When Clinton was in office and later when Obongo got into office and the big ammo/gun shortage scares hit a very interesting and consistent undercurrent was present....and no one seemed to notice at all. In both cases I was in the gun biz and in both cases it was virtually impossible for looooong periods to buy any decent long range match bullets.....Hmmmmmm......
Also commercial long range rifles like the Sendero appeared in Clintons time, and I don't have to tell you how both commercial and custom long range equipment has grown since then....
The boys with the so-called " Assault Rifles" are not going to be the problem the press makes them out to be....it will be, shall we say...'others'.
Not that Ive thought about this or anything, but a lesson can be learned from our previous enemies, the Viet Cong.
Three man cells. Effective and particularly in the case of capture for Plausible Deniability.
Maj. Plaster's book on sniping is a good read. Hint.
Use enough gun firepower.
Hoping Trump was sent by God to save the USA.
Too late to vote them out, too soon to shoot them.
How soon is "too soon" and define "them".
John Ross and Matt Bracken have both laid out very real scenarios.
FIRST study the tactics of your likely adversary(ies). THE MORE HIGHLY TRAINED the adversary is,the easier he is to destroy. They become entirely predictable. Easy to kill when you know their next move before they do.
All of this is well and good but logistics win wars. At some point in a struggle as described loaded ammo, powder, and primers will be restricted or banned. A long slow spudder will result and the insurrection will fizzle.
I'm too old and too frail these days, to 'man the barricades". I have some stuff set aside though, that might benefit some younger folks that could.
Logistics do indeed win wars, but as the people in the middle east have shown, what is yours, might well be mine tomorrow. There is no guarantee that in a time of national crisis, all the .gov folks will stick with that side. Just saying........
Oh I know what I have, just need one more!
I'm actually downsizing to my M&P 9mm handgun and a M&P 308 AR10 with a scope. I only want what I can easily carry. I only want stuff that shoots common caliber rounds. I only want to store 2 types of ammo and a handful of gun spare parts. Everything plus a few pre-loaded mags fits in 1 tactical carry bag.
The reason Switzerland hasn't been invaded has more to do with the fact the terrain limits the points through which intruders can enter the country; and that every one of those points has been rigged with explosives. Having an armed citizenry is an added bonus.
Never gonna happen.
A revolution/civil war will NEVER come from the Right. The only way a civil war would happen is if the GibsMeDats weren't given whatever it is they feel entitled to.
FIRST study the tactics of your likely adversary(ies). THE MORE HIGHLY TRAINED the adversary is,the easier he is to destroy. They become entirely predictable. Easy to kill when you know their next move before they do.
I think they train for that....Lol.
W'ell all be dead from muslims and Ebola long before we get the opportunity to rise up!!!!!!!!!
A revolution/civil war will NEVER come from the Right.
They've never successfully banned guns. This is a line that can't be crossed.
Oh I know what I have, just need one more!
I'm actually downsizing to my M&P 9mm handgun and a M&P 308 AR10 with a scope. I only want what I can easily carry. I only want stuff that shoots common caliber rounds. I only want to store 2 types of ammo and a handful of gun spare parts. Everything plus a few pre-loaded mags fits in 1 tactical carry bag.
It's not so much what you can stow or carry, it's what you can recover from the opposition's bodies. That's why I don't own an AR, I'll just pick one up someplace, if the need arises.
FIRST study the tactics of your likely adversary(ies). THE MORE HIGHLY TRAINED the adversary is,the easier he is to destroy. They become entirely predictable. Easy to kill when you know their next move before they do.
When the balloon goes up, I'm moving in with ET!
Never gonna happen.
A revolution/civil war will NEVER come from the Right. The only way a civil war would happen is if the GibsMeDats weren't given whatever it is they feel entitled to.
So long as those on the right have the mindset that they have so much to live for, you are right.
But when pushed too far, there will be small percentage that feel retaking the country is a cause worth dieing for. I'm not talking about the lunatic fringe militia's planning to bomb courthouses. Just reasonable folks that love this country and are willing to sacrifice all to retake it.
GebsMeDats are cowards who can be whipped into a frenzy to loot and pillage, but they are too lazy and too stupid to look beyond snagging a couple pairs of air jordans and some malt liquor.
GebsMeDats are cowards who can be whipped into a frenzy to loot and pillage, but they are too lazy and too stupid to look beyond snagging a couple pairs of air jordans and some malt liquor.
LOL
If we were to consider methods of achieving gun confiscation, agents of the federal government would not have to perform the physical task of confiscation. It could achieve disarmament via other methods. The feds could starve Americans into compliance (see Stalin's forced famine and the Iranian genocide). If all food and fuel shipments were denied delivery, it wouldn't be long before most Americans surrendered their guns in exchange for food vouchers so they could feed their families. Stockpiling food would not have the desired effect of sustaining families. In would incite others to attempt to take from those who have, which would be passively encouraged by government for it would hasten the outcome of gun confiscation. It would turn Americans against each other, which would benefit only government's objective of total disarmament.
I do not envision another civil war in America.
I think it's much more likely that a Cat5 [bleep] out occurs and Marshall Law is declared when citizens start protecting their own property and Hillary see's too many of her voter base falling.
There won't be a gun confiscation. They'll start out taxing the hell out of firearms. They'll make it illegal to purchase reloading components because powder and primers are evil.
They'll do like CA is already doing and make it illegal to own classes of guns (which will be rapidly expanded to include everything but a musket).
There will be no grandfather clause. Within 2-3 generations, the guns that weren't turned in by our grandkids will be buried somewhere or dropped in a lake by those who never had a chance to understand their use or what they represent.
There won't be a gun confiscation. They'll start out taxing the hell out of firearms. They'll make it illegal to purchase reloading components because powder and primers are evil.
They'll do like CA is already doing and make it illegal to own classes of guns (which will be rapidly expanded to include everything but a musket).
This is obviously the middle step they are trying for now but if they get power, they may just make this happen. They would likely take actions on factory ammo also so the regular Joe can't afford to shoot and say fug it and sells his gun back to them, never to be owned again.
" ... It [government] could achieve disarmament via other methods. The feds could starve Americans into compliance (see Stalin's forced famine and the Iranian genocide). If all food and fuel shipments were denied delivery, it wouldn't be long before most Americans surrendered their guns in exchange for food vouchers so they could feed their families.
That doesn't make any sense. For example ....
Her Royal Majesty Queen Hillary issues an Imperial Order which reads ...
"All shipments of food of any kind either by trucking companies, railroads, airplanes, or any other methods are hereby banned. All food in grocery stores, on farms, ranches, or in people's backyard gardens, and elsewhere, now belongs to the Kingdom, meaning me.
This Imperial Order shall remain in effect until all 100,000,000 filthy gunowners turn in all 300,000,000 firearms to my Imperial Enforcement Agents.
Exclusions will be my designated Imperial Guard, my Imperial Police, all Senators & Congressmen who are Democrat Communists, and my family. Any good subject who turns in a gunowner who refuses to comply with my Imperial Order, will be rewarded with one can of pork & beans and a can of Vienna Sausages. This Imperial Order goes into effect immediately."
Now what would 100,000,000 gunowners who are now starving, yet seeing that Her Majesty and her toady sycophants, her Imperial Enforcers, and Imperial Bureaucrats are all eating high on the hog, do??? Just sit around and cry and die of starvation?? I don't think so.
We are not the old Soviet Union or Iran. This is the United States of America with 100,000,000 gunowners who
will not go gently into that dark night.
L.W.
No, I mean the "Others".
The boys with the so-called " Assault Rifles" are not going to be the problem the press makes them out to be....it will be, shall we say...'others'.
You, Rommel and who else?
Hint taken.
We are not the old Soviet Union or Iran. This is the United States of America with 100,000,000 gunowners who will not go gently into that dark night.
L.W.
That's what it boils down to.
Not everyone will throw their hat in the ring, but then, not
everybody has to...
There are lots of people that have different thresholds of acceptance.
I'm surprised, with the lines in sand crossed already that there hasn't been more organization of taking our country back. I think a LOT of people are waiting to see what the elections bring. I don't think they are going to be happy campers with the results though.
It's not so much what you can stow or carry, it's what you can recover from the opposition's bodies. That's why I don't own an AR, I'll just pick one up someplace, if the need arises.
Thats what I figured. If things ever really got that bad, I could pick up an AR for about .37cents.....
It's not so much what you can stow or carry, it's what you can recover from the opposition's bodies. That's why I don't own an AR, I'll just pick one up someplace, if the need arises.
Thats what I figured. If things ever really got that bad, I could pick up an AR for about .37cents.....
I'll do what I can to keep the cost down so they will be affordable for everyone that needs one...
I'm surprised, with the lines in sand crossed already that there hasn't been more organization of taking our country back.
I think this is something that makes our time in history unique. With today's technology, the government has a much more pronounced ability to know what people are "up to" and take defensive action. With Big Brother in full force, a lot of people are just simply afraid of getting on a schit list. So I think if any grass roots movement ever did occur, it'll happen with much less lead time.
taking your country back ?? from who ? from what period rocckinbar ??
When all else fails, vote from the rooftops.
taking your country back ?? from who ? from what period rocckinbar ??
Not sure what sock puppet you are, but I'll answer anyway.
From the Bolsheviks that are turning it socialist, and fugging with freedoms and liberties our country was founded on.
Any further questions?
" ... It [government] could achieve disarmament via other methods. The feds could starve Americans into compliance (see Stalin's forced famine and the Iranian genocide). If all food and fuel shipments were denied delivery, it wouldn't be long before most Americans surrendered their guns in exchange for food vouchers so they could feed their families.
That doesn't make any sense. For example ....
Her Royal Majesty Queen Hillary issues an Imperial Order which reads ...
"All shipments of food of any kind either by trucking companies, railroads, airplanes, or any other methods are hereby banned. All food in grocery stores, on farms, ranches, or in people's backyard gardens, and elsewhere, now belongs to the Kingdom, meaning me.
This Imperial Order shall remain in effect until all 100,000,000 filthy gunowners turn in all 300,000,000 firearms to my Imperial Enforcement Agents.
Exclusions will be my designated Imperial Guard, my Imperial Police, all Senators & Congressmen who are Democrat Communists, and my family. Any good subject who turns in a gunowner who refuses to comply with my Imperial Order, will be rewarded with one can of pork & beans and a can of Vienna Sausages. This Imperial Order goes into effect immediately."
Now what would 100,000,000 gunowners who are now starving, yet seeing that Her Majesty and her toady sycophants, her Imperial Enforcers, and Imperial Bureaucrats are all eating high on the hog, do??? Just sit around and cry and die of starvation?? I don't think so.
We are not the old Soviet Union or Iran. This is the United States of America with 100,000,000 gunowners who
will not go gently into that dark night.
L.W.
It might not make sense to you, but were I to bet, I'd go with this exact scenario is contained within the assured disarmament operational plan that exists.
Under martial law, the president acts as dictator. No legislation would be necessary.
Study history as it does repeat itself.
taking your country back ?? from who ? from what period rocckinbar ??
Are you operating under the delusion that We, the People are still sovereign? We've been ruled, not governed, since 1913.
taking your country back ?? from who ? from what period rocckinbar ??
Not sure what sock puppet you are, but I'll answer anyway.
From the Bolsheviks that are turning it socialist, and fugging with freedoms and liberties our country was founded on.
Any further questions?
I think this "Ginther" idiot is the next evolution of this LagunazuliSako azzwhole,....
tread lightly, his training might "kick in" at any time.
GTC
FIRST study the tactics of your likely adversary(ies). THE MORE HIGHLY TRAINED the adversary is,the easier he is to destroy. They become entirely predictable. Easy to kill when you know their next move before they do.
I think they train for that....Lol.
I've BEEN in some pretty nasty ground combat. The worst thing that can happen is to have the adversary anticipate your moves. When it gets up close and personal it makes a huge difference in the outcome.
Y'all seem to think the it's going to be armies and paramilitary groups facing off with each other.
SAKO AV - " ... It might not make sense to you, but were I to bet, I'd go with this exact scenario is contained within the assured disarmament operational plan that exists.
Under martial law, the president acts as dictator. No legislation would be necessary."
So you believe that millions of Americans, armed Americans, would just sit back whining and crying and obeying the dictates of Dear Leader to turn in their guns or
starve to death? What nonsense.
Perhaps, however, you are projecting your
own actions in such a scenario on 100,000,000 million Americans.
As for history, I've read many, many history books over the years -- a hobby of mine -- and history does not bear out such a scenario as your ideas.
L.W.
SAKO AV - " ... It might not make sense to you, but were I to bet, I'd go with this exact scenario is contained within the assured disarmament operational plan that exists.
Under martial law, the president acts as dictator. No legislation would be necessary."
So you believe that millions of Americans, armed Americans, would just sit back whining and crying and obeying the dictates of Dear Leader to turn in their guns or
starve to death? What nonsense.
Perhaps, however, you are projecting your
own actions in such a scenario on 100,000,000 million Americans.
As for history, I've read many, many history books over the years -- a hobby of mine -- and history does not bear out such a scenario as your ideas.
L.W.
I'm going with your reading historical fantasy. Try reading about the
Iranian Genocide.
If you have no clue of Stalin's forced famine, stick with gun books.
You might not realize this, but government
CONTROLS your life right now 24/7/365. If you do anything or buy anything, it's because government allows you. Try modifying your home without government's permission and let us know how it turns out. Try drinking a cold beer on a hot day on a California beach, and let us know how much your fine was. Try drinking a cold beer in a pubic park near your home, and let us know how it turns out.
No government is secure unless it can control its people. The primary method government uses to control us is law.
I do believe most gun owners will voluntarily comply with gun confiscation laws. The one's that won't will be televised as examples as governmental agents forcibly take guns just like they did in New Orleans.
You must've missed the
Arcadia, IA gun confiscation drill. I had a friend who lived in Iowa at that time. He told me that everyone there knew that governmental agents were practicing confiscating
AMERICANS' guns.
You're awfully naive if you think that the federal government does not have a detailed gun confiscation plan in place.
So, tell us, Rambo, what the eff are you gonna do with an Apache helicopter circling your home? Do you really believe that government won't make an example outta you? Well, maybe you missed US military involvement in the incineration of the
Branch Dividians.
Why would you suppose that neocon Bush 43
signed an agreement with Canada that allows its military to breach our northern border to quell an insurrection in our country? What did Bush 43 was going to happen in our country that would require a foreign military to quell? You are aware that when a country sends its military into another country that it's a declaration of war, aren't you?
My advice to you is to think beyond your mind's horizons. Ask yourself what government would not do to prevent another civil war.
Here, I'll help you because it's the way I roll, and I'm bored: the first thing that
WILL be terminated will be all forms of civilian communication: Internet, telephonic, TV, radio, ham radio, any device that can be used to communicate. Gas and electricity services will be terminated. That will be followed by termination of all food and fuel shipments. This will happen very quickly, as in minutes. You'll literally be left cold, tired, and hungry. And you think you're gonna fight?
Never forget that our government will do anything necessary to control us, for should it lose control, it will cease to exist. Do you think government will allow that to happen?
I have direct experience with governmental response to large-scale insurrection. You wouldn't do well in such a condition.
"Never forget that our government will do anything necessary to control us, for should it lose control, it will cease to exist. Do you think government will allow that to happen?"
Tyranny? Over-reach? The Founders would not be happy.
It might not make sense to you, but were I to bet, I'd go with this exact scenario is contained within the assured disarmament operational plan that exists.
Under martial law, the president acts as dictator. No legislation would be necessary.
Study history as it does repeat itself.
I think you discount the fact that these troops, national guard and law enforcement all have families. They will do what the police did during Katrina. As time wore on, conditions worsened, and more and more people were victimizing others because the could get away with it, the police left their posts and went home to care for their families.
SAKO AV - " ... It might not make sense to you, but were I to bet, I'd go with this exact scenario is contained within the assured disarmament operational plan that exists.
Under martial law, the president acts as dictator. No legislation would be necessary."
So you believe that millions of Americans, armed Americans, would just sit back whining and crying and obeying the dictates of Dear Leader to turn in their guns or
starve to death? What nonsense.
Perhaps, however, you are projecting your
own actions in such a scenario on 100,000,000 million Americans.
As for history, I've read many, many history books over the years -- a hobby of mine -- and history does not bear out such a scenario as your ideas.
L.W.
No government is secure unless it can control its people. The primary method government uses to control us is law.
My advice to you is to think beyond your mind's horizons. Ask yourself what government would not do to prevent another civil war.
Here, I'll help you because it's the way I roll, and I'm bored:
the first thing that WILL be terminated will be all forms of civilian communication: Internet, telephonic, TV, radio, ham radio, any device that can be used to communicate. Gas and electricity services will be terminated. That will be followed by termination of all food and fuel shipments. This will happen very quickly, as in minutes. You'll literally be left cold, tired, and hungry. And you think you're gonna fight?
Never forget that our government will do anything necessary to control us, for should it lose control, it will cease to exist. Do you think government will allow that to happen?
I have direct experience with governmental response to large-scale insurrection. You wouldn't do well in such a condition.
A question SakoAV;
Do you believe all of that will be accomplished with the support of Intel, Microsoft, Verizon, Samsung, Apple, Comcast, CBS, NBC, Clear Channel Radio, SiriusXM, Pacific Gas & Electric, ConEd, Union Pacific and BNSF RR's, Swift trucking, ADM, Tyson, McDonald's, Exxon/Mobile, Shell, and every other moneymaking establishment that contributed to the Clinton foundation, the campaign coffers of every member of both houses of Congress, not to mention the state and local politicians?
I for one believe that even should an uprising occur, the govt will be reigned in to some extent by the moneyed interests of the "free" world. They will push for some sort of attempt to quell the revolt without destroying the economy for the vast majority of their consumers.
Those who will rise to power know who butters their bread. If the economy should collapse completely, where will the pols obtain their funding?
From my point of view, times are no longer the same as at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th centuries. Despots of the type that destroyed the Russian and Eastern European nations will not exist in the USA of today or the near future. There may be despots, but they will seek to keep the money flowing in.
Perhaps the situation will involve taking, by force, some weapons from a percentage of the population, then (as others have pointed out) just restricting access to them or the necessary components to feed them, a la Britain-Australia and a few others. Then continue a war of attrition against the remaining holdouts. Companies like Lockheed/Martin and Blackwater would be more than willing to help rounding them up or "neutralizing" them. Then the general public can still have their TV and smartphones, Big Macs, and electricity for their "stuff".
Geno
Between Gov't control of the currency and media, plus ubiquitous surveillance (yes, the cameras you line your home & business with count in that) there will not be a widespread rebellion. Widespread rebellion will only be possible if the currency collapses.
It might not make sense to you, but were I to bet, I'd go with this exact scenario is contained within the assured disarmament operational plan that exists.
Under martial law, the president acts as dictator. No legislation would be necessary.
Study history as it does repeat itself.
the police left their posts and went home to care for their families.
Where did you get this information? Post a cite.
It would be the law enforcement equivalent of desertion, which would trigger termination.
Good Morning, Geno,
There is no doubt in my mind that the scenario I've presented is optimistic should Americans refuse to comply with confiscation and decide to resist with violence.
All of the companies you've mentioned are regulated by the federal government, FCC, public utilities, etc. Even if they weren't, martial law would accord the de facto dictator to do what he deems necessary to quell an insurrection.
Moneyed interests would be worthless if the government is no longer in control, which government will never allow to happen.
Right-wing extremist crackpot, if he exist at all...
Phil
A final thought: while we have all contemplated possible reactions to a potential gun confiscation law, the better idea is to prevent such a law from existing. The best way I know of to accomplish preserving our Second Amendment RIGHT is to elect authentically conservative politicians.
I have not been optimistic since Reagan won reelection is '84, but I might be more optimistic now. I'm nearly 100% certain Donald Trump will win on 08 NOV 16. He has the most conservative platform of any modern presidential candidate, and that includes Reagan. But Trump will be only a start.
I believe that the last Supreme Court justice to be impeached was Samuel Chase, and that was in the early 19th century. The Supreme Court does not have constitutional authority to enact law. Only congressmen, who are accountable to We, the People have constitutional authority to create law. Therefore, we must elect authentically conservative congressmen. Moreover, before voting for a congressman, make them pledge to impeach activist Supreme Court justices.
There is no confusion of James Madison's Second Amendment. There are no conditions within his Second Amendment. The only legal way to abridge our Second Amendment RIGHT is by following Article V of the United States Constitution. Hence, all gun control laws that contradict the Second Amendment are illegal because the United States Constitution is the supreme law of our land. Therefore, we must insist that our congressmen impeach justices who do not follow the supreme law of the land.
As we all know, it's much easier to prevent bad things from happening to our individual rights and liberties because once lost, we don't get them back.
Yes, to some extent history repeats itself. The things that make this country different however is 1. We have a volunteer military force, 2. We have the largest number of private gun owners on the planet, and 3. Rebellion runs in our DNA. Many of your premises make the assumption that all these different government agencies and the military and law enforcement will just do what the "dictator" says. MANY would choose to side with their countrymen and defy the government, some from within, some will just walk away. This kind of scenario would be characterized by almost unpredictable micro wars peppered all over the nation by geographic region. It would probably be uncontrollable.
Oh I know what I have, just need one more!
I'm actually downsizing to my M&P 9mm handgun and a M&P 308 AR10 with a scope. I only want what I can easily carry. I only want stuff that shoots common caliber rounds. I only want to store 2 types of ammo and a handful of gun spare parts. Everything plus a few pre-loaded mags fits in 1 tactical carry bag.
Good lord.
BTW the scenario as listed, basically is how its going to have to go down and its been that way for years.
Though I can't quite peg it to this coming election, BUT things have never been in closer alignment for the crap to happen, than the way it is this go round.
Certainly only time will tell.
CErtainly you can only be just so prepared.
Lets pray it doesn't happen, yet be ready to save the country if it does.
I'm in the flight path of Whidbey Island Naval Airstation and watch freedom overhead all the time. It makes me feel as though my .338 is a little anemic.
Yes, to some extent history repeats itself. The things that make this country different however is 1. We have a volunteer military force, 2. We have the largest number of private gun owners on the planet, and 3. Rebellion runs in our DNA. Many of your premises make the assumption that all these different government agencies and the military and law enforcement will just do what the "dictator" says. MANY would choose to side with their countrymen and defy the government, some from within, some will just walk away. This kind of scenario would be characterized by almost unpredictable micro wars peppered all over the nation by geographic region. It would probably be uncontrollable.
Modern technology has changed the rules of rebellion. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that NSA peruses these forums and saves content.
Sako AV, your nonsensical and quite juvenile grade school insults and ridiculous disparaging accusations of me are meaningless to me.
It is very obvious that having a logical conversation with you is, as the old adage goes, "Ain't hardly worth the candle."
L.W.
Guess what guy, you're not living in 1778 and the Constitution isn't today what it was when it was written back then, wasn't meant to be and it isn't. Things change get use to it. And man I do believe you are letting your self in for a lot of heartbreak come November 9th, or just a few short months away!
As for what some are saying about not being able to carry on a conversation with you... Hell we're all the same way!
Phil
The fact that some folks, some 200 plus years later, are ready to let the reasons the nation was founded, change and slip away into .gov rule and socialism, and that they seem to enjoy that, is very aggravating.
You are right, November likely will bother me a lot. Because of the continued demise of this once great nation.
I'd sure like to see all the positives of the liberal democratic thinking process put down in black and white for once...
I'm about tired of paying for everyone else's chit too...
Guess what guy, you're not living in 1778 and the Constitution isn't today what it was when it was written back then, wasn't meant to be and it isn't. Things change get use to it. And man I do believe you are letting your self in for a lot of heartbreak come November 9th, or just a few short months away!
As for what some are saying about not being able to carry on a conversation with you... Hell we're all the same way!
Phil
So we no longer have a constitution? Are we running on fickle guidelines?
You are a definitive extremist and march in America's fifth column. You're dangerous to Americans' individual liberties. You'd have us marching to Greyghost's reeducation centers for brainwashing.
You have zero clue of early American history.
Sako AV, your nonsensical and quite juvenile grade school insults and ridiculous disparaging accusations of me are meaningless to me.
It is very obvious that having a logical conversation with you is, as the old adage goes, "Ain't hardly worth the candle."
L.W.
What you're really saying is that you've made up your mind, and facts won't change it. You're a neocons dream lackey.
Guess what guy, you're not living in 1778 and the Constitution isn't today what it was when it was written back then, wasn't meant to be and it isn't. Things change get use to it. And man I do believe you are letting your self in for a lot of heartbreak come November 9th, or just a few short months away!
As for what some are saying about not being able to carry on a conversation with you... Hell we're all the same way!
Phil
So we no longer have a constitution? Are we running on fickle guidelines?
You are a definitive extremist and march in America's fifth column. You're dangerous to Americans' individual liberties. You'd have us marching to Greyghost's reeducation centers for brainwashing.
You have zero clue of early American history.
He ain't been the same since he started having "dinner" with that nice black lady next door.
If anyone thinks that there are not those among us that will fight for freedom, you don't have to participate.
All you have to do is hide and watch.
If anyone thinks that there are not those among us that will fight for freedom, you don't have to participate.
It happens all the time. Most of the comments about those poor bastards range along the lines of "he should have obeyed the law".
Guess what guy, you're not living in 1778 and the Constitution isn't today what it was when it was written back then, wasn't meant to be and it isn't. Things change get use to it. And man I do believe you are letting your self in for a lot of heartbreak come November 9th, or just a few short months away!
As for what some are saying about not being able to carry on a conversation with you... Hell we're all the same way!
Phil
Arguably the stupidest and most dangerously ignorant statement since the sad day you joined this Forum..
Guess what guy, you're not living in 1778 and the Constitution isn't today what it was when it was written back then, wasn't meant to be and it isn't. Things change get use to it. And man I do believe you are letting your self in for a lot of heartbreak come November 9th, or just a few short months away!
As for what some are saying about not being able to carry on a conversation with you... Hell we're all the same way!
Phil
If you and your kind don't like what the constitution says and the rights it guarantees then get the f*ck out. There's only one Country I know of that guarantees me the rights I have here and I'm willing to fight to keep them. There are plenty of places you could go live under socialism/communism where citizens aren't allowed to be armed.
Thats what I figured. If things ever really got that bad, I could pick up an AR for about .37cents.....
Damn.
Has subsonic .22 gotten that expensive?
The Constitution was designed to promulgate and maintain 18th Century English government and to maintain the rights of Englishmen living in America...Americans. It has failed to maintain those rights, preserve that form of government, and to check government power. Why? Because it is unsuited for other kinds of people and we've been letting them in by the bushels for a long dang time.
America is not an idea. It is not a principle. It was a country in which Americans lived and Americans were a race descended from that cultural stock here at the time of the Revolution.
The Constitution was designed to promulgate and maintain 18th Century English government and to maintain the rights of Englishmen living in America...Americans. It has failed to maintain those rights, preserve that form of government, and to check government power. Why? Because it is unsuited for other kinds of people and we've been letting them in by the bushels for a long dang time.
America is not an idea. It is not a principle. It was a country in which Americans lived and Americans were a race descended from that cultural stock here at the time of the Revolution.
The Constitution is a document. It has zero power if our leaders don't enforce it. And we have plenty of corrupt American politicians that have allowed the integrity of the premises of the document erode over the years. So, our own people allowed it to decay, and our own people will have to restore those principles with force if need be. And as far as I am concerned, we have every legal (and ethical) right to do so.
The Constitution was designed to promulgate and maintain 18th Century English government and to maintain the rights of Englishmen living in America...Americans. It has failed to maintain those rights, preserve that form of government, and to check government power. Why? Because it is unsuited for other kinds of people and we've been letting them in by the bushels for a long dang time.
America is not an idea. It is not a principle. It was a country in which Americans lived and Americans were a race descended from that cultural stock here at the time of the Revolution.
The Constitution is a document. It has zero power if our leaders don't enforce it. And we have plenty of corrupt American politicians that have allowed the integrity of the premises of the document erode over the years. So, our own people allowed it to decay, and our own people will have to restore those principles with force if need be. And as far as I am concerned, we have every legal (and ethical) right to do so.
No, it wasn't our "own people", it was in large part because we let in other kinds of people with different ideas of what government is and should be than Americans.
No, it wasn't our "own people", it was in large part because we let in other kinds of people with different ideas of what government is and should be than Americans.
"We, the People" have allowed the politicians to distort & bastardize the Constitution for their own benefit.
Tar, feathers & rails should become vogue again................
MM
No, it wasn't our "own people", it was in large part because we let in other kinds of people with different ideas of what government is and should be than Americans.
"We, the People" have allowed the politicians to distort & bastardize the Constitution for their own benefit.
Tar, feathers & rails should become vogue again................
MM
"We the people" was never meant to include immigrants from all over Europe much less the world. The Constitution is not some sort of magic against foreign ideas brought in by foreign people.
Why? Because it is unsuited for other kinds of people and we've been letting them in by the bushels for a long dang time.
No doubt, and perhaps it would be wise to ask an American Indian their opinions on uncontrolled borders. History repeats again....
Why? Because it is unsuited for other kinds of people and we've been letting them in by the bushels for a long dang time.
No doubt, and perhaps it would be wise to ask an American Indian their opinions on uncontrolled borders. History repeats again....
I would if I could find one.
Why? Because it is unsuited for other kinds of people and we've been letting them in by the bushels for a long dang time.
No doubt, and perhaps it would be wise to ask an American Indian their opinions on uncontrolled borders. History repeats again....
I would if I could find one.
I've seen lots of them on reservations.
No, it wasn't our "own people", it was in large part because we let in other kinds of people with different ideas of what government is and should be than Americans.
Who the hell are you even talking about??? The vast majority of people in this county aren't direct decedents of the founders, including myself. I served and gave an oarth to give my life for the Constitution if needed, just like millions of other people in this country. We as a people have allowed what has happened. Your generalizations are useless.
[quote=JoeBob]Why? Because it is unsuited for other kinds of people and we've been letting them in by the bushels for a long dang time.
No doubt, and perhaps it would be wise to ask an American Indian their opinions on uncontrolled borders. History repeats again....
I would if I could find one.
I've seen lots of them on reservations. [/quote
Kind of long, but well worth the watch. This Indian has it right.
Welcome to the Reservation
Guess what guy, you're not living in 1778 and the Constitution isn't today what it was when it was written back then, wasn't meant to be and it isn't. Things change get use to it. And man I do believe you are letting your self in for a lot of heartbreak come November 9th, or just a few short months away!
As for what some are saying about not being able to carry on a conversation with you... Hell we're all the same way!
Phil
Arguably the stupidest and most dangerously ignorant statement since the sad day you joined this Forum..
I'd have to say, you are correct! This though is the thinking of liberal dumb schitts.
"We have a better idea! We are so smart! That nasty old Constitution just can't be used in a modern world.
Times change and people get smarter."
These are all statements from liberal people I've had the misfortune of having to converse with over the years.
The level of stupidity is appalling.
Women? I can see their lean toward socialism, it falsely promises safety. Women value safety and security over every thing else.
Unfortunately, they now outnumber men, and the promises of safety and security from .gov, make them feel all better. Safety is something that just ain't possible in this big ol' dangerous world.
Damn straight, JoeBob. Importing slaves was out first and fatal mistake.
No, it wasn't our "own people", it was in large part because we let in other kinds of people with different ideas of what government is and should be than Americans.
Who the hell are you even talking about??? The vast majority of people in this county aren't direct decedents of the founders, including myself. I served and gave an oarth to give my life for the Constitution if needed, just like millions of other people in this country. We as a people have allowed what has happened. Your generalizations are useless.
And that's why we've failed. As long as the dominant culture was one of descendants of white Englishmen, we were able to keep it together, but letting in others started it downhill. Constitutional government of the type we have is an anomoly. Find it anywhere but in an English speaking country. You won't. The idea that government is limited in the way we think is almost exclusively an English one. Even in Europe, their modern constitutions run to hundreds of pages detailing mundane things in life. Other countries more or less copied ours and then promptly ignore them. But in England they cited the Constitution and followed it without even having a written one. In the US we used ours to preserve English government at the height of its perfection, the 18th century separation of powers model.
Consider this. The Supreme Court that we all despise right now is made up of Catholics and Jews. There is nothing wrong with either group and most are fine people. But both were almost completely absent from 18th Century Britain and America. In Britain, Catholics were formally excluded from the country and subject to periodic persecution through the 18th century and not allowed to hold oublic office again until the 19th. Jews were expelled by Richard II and weren't seen back in England in any numbers until the 19th. In America Catholics were more or less confined to one colony and persecuted everywhere else and Jews were welcomed as merchants but had little influence.
This isn't to say that these people are bad, it is merely to point out that for that very important two hundred years or so before the American Revolution where the ideas of English Liberty really took root, these people weren't only absent from it, they were hostile to it. The Spanish Armada was about putting a Catholic back on the throne of England. The thought that a king might be a secret Catholic was enough for a revolution in 1688 that saw him deposed.
And yet today, the descendants of these people who were completely absent from the cultural heritage that gave us our Constitution are trying to tell us what 18th century English country gentlemen meant when they wrote it? Is it any wonder that for the most part they discount it and in many cases seem actively hostile to the clear intent of the founders?
The Constitution was designed to promulgate and maintain 18th Century English government and to maintain the rights of Englishmen living in America...Americans. It has failed to maintain those rights, preserve that form of government, and to check government power. Why? Because it is unsuited for other kinds of people and we've been letting them in by the bushels for a long dang time.
America is not an idea. It is not a principle. It was a country in which Americans lived and Americans were a race descended from that cultural stock here at the time of the Revolution.
The Constitution has not failed it's people.
The People have failed the Constitution. Very simply.
Anything else is just an excuse.
The Constitution was designed to promulgate and maintain 18th Century English government and to maintain the rights of Englishmen living in America...Americans. It has failed to maintain those rights, preserve that form of government, and to check government power. Why? Because it is unsuited for other kinds of people and we've been letting them in by the bushels for a long dang time.
America is not an idea. It is not a principle. It was a country in which Americans lived and Americans were a race descended from that cultural stock here at the time of the Revolution.
The Constitution has not failed it's people.
The People have failed the Constitution. Very simply.
Anything else is just an excuse.
How can a people prevail when they are swamped by foreigners and foreign ideas and most of them don't even realize it?
How can a people prevail when they are swamped by foreigners and foreign ideas and most of them don't even realize it?
The same way you deal with that fishy smell in the kitchen.
You take out the trash.
If we were to consider methods of achieving gun confiscation, agents of the federal government would not have to perform the physical task of confiscation. It could achieve disarmament via other methods. The feds could starve Americans into compliance (see Stalin's forced famine and the Iranian genocide). If all food and fuel shipments were denied delivery, it wouldn't be long before most Americans surrendered their guns in exchange for food vouchers so they could feed their families. Stockpiling food would not have the desired effect of sustaining families. In would incite others to attempt to take from those who have, which would be passively encouraged by government for it would hasten the outcome of gun confiscation. It would turn Americans against each other, which would benefit only government's objective of total disarmament.
I do not envision another civil war in America.
time people learned to grow their own food
How can a people prevail when they are swamped by foreigners and foreign ideas and most of them don't even realize it?
The same way you deal with that fishy smell in the kitchen.
You take out the trash.
The trash thinks it is American.
If we were to consider methods of achieving gun confiscation, agents of the federal government would not have to perform the physical task of confiscation. It could achieve disarmament via other methods. The feds could starve Americans into compliance (see Stalin's forced famine and the Iranian genocide). If all food and fuel shipments were denied delivery, it wouldn't be long before most Americans surrendered their guns in exchange for food vouchers so they could feed their families. Stockpiling food would not have the desired effect of sustaining families. In would incite others to attempt to take from those who have, which would be passively encouraged by government for it would hasten the outcome of gun confiscation. It would turn Americans against each other, which would benefit only government's objective of total disarmament.
I do not envision another civil war in America.
time people learned to grow their own food
It's long past time that we reverted to the original intent of our Founding Fathers. That way, we'd have no worries.
The Constitution is a document. It has zero power if our leaders don't enforce it.
It is up to
us to enforce the Constitution. Our "leaders" by their very nature covet power.
The 2nd Amendment is the right of the People to enforce the Constitution under arms.
Nothing more, and nothing less.
No, it wasn't our "own people", it was in large part because we let in other kinds of people with different ideas of what government is and should be than Americans.
Who the hell are you even talking about??? The vast majority of people in this county aren't direct decedents of the founders, including myself. I served and gave an oarth to give my life for the Constitution if needed, just like millions of other people in this country. We as a people have allowed what has happened. Your generalizations are useless.
And that's why we've failed. As long as the dominant culture was one of descendants of white Englishmen, we were able to keep it together, but letting in others started it downhill. Constitutional government of the type we have is an anomoly. Find it anywhere but in an English speaking country. You won't. The idea that government is limited in the way we think is almost exclusively an English one. Even in Europe, their modern constitutions run to hundreds of pages detailing mundane things in life. Other countries more or less copied ours and then promptly ignore them. But in England they cited the Constitution and followed it without even having a written one. In the US we used ours to preserve English government at the height of its perfection, the 18th century separation of powers model.
Except for the simple fact the #1 immigrant group into the US were and still are German. I agree with the premise though.
Consider this. The Supreme Court that we all despise right now is made up of Catholics and Jews. There is nothing wrong with either group and most are fine people. But both were almost completely absent from 18th Century Britain and America. In Britain, Catholics were formally excluded from the country and subject to periodic persecution through the 18th century and not allowed to hold oublic office again until the 19th. Jews were expelled by Richard II and weren't seen back in England in any numbers until the 19th. In America Catholics were more or less confined to one colony and persecuted everywhere else and Jews were welcomed as merchants but had little influence.
This isn't to say that these people are bad, it is merely to point out that for that very important two hundred years or so before the American Revolution where the ideas of English Liberty really took root, these people weren't only absent from it, they were hostile to it. The Spanish Armada was about putting a Catholic back on the throne of England. The thought that a king might be a secret Catholic was enough for a revolution in 1688 that saw him deposed.
And yet today, the descendants of these people who were completely absent from the cultural heritage that gave us our Constitution are trying to tell us what 18th century English country gentlemen meant when they wrote it? Is it any wonder that for the most part they discount it and in many cases seem actively hostile to the clear intent of the founders?
Once again spot on. This country was founded for the most part on the Protestant Work Ethic. One need only draw a diagonal line across Europe and compare Protestants to Catholic countries and the difference is revealing.
You lot live in one of the very few countries in the entire world where votes from citizens can change everything, and all you can talk about is killing your fellow citizens.
Interesting thread though.
Guess what guy, you're not living in 1778 and the Constitution isn't today what it was when it was written back then, wasn't meant to be and it isn't. Things change get use to it. And man I do believe you are letting your self in for a lot of heartbreak come November 9th, or just a few short months away!
As for what some are saying about not being able to carry on a conversation with you... Hell we're all the same way!
Phil
Things do indeed change. Hope you enjoy your breakfasts alone.
[quote=JoeBob]Why? Because it is unsuited for other kinds of people and we've been letting them in by the bushels for a long dang time.
No doubt, and perhaps it would be wise to ask an American Indian their opinions on uncontrolled borders. History repeats again....
I would if I could find one.
I've seen lots of them on reservations. [/quote
Kind of long, but well worth the watch. This Indian has it right.
Welcome to the Reservation k22, I agree that Russell Means makes some very important points, ie. the Patriarchal Pyramid, the importance of a thriving Local economy, the dumbing down of our school system, the theft of our monetary system by the Feds. But I listen to his monologue, critically, and with the knowledge that he too, has a personal agenda. He has spent alot of time trying to revise Native history, to fit a more palatable overview of Native American cultural practices since the 1960's. He is truthful, when the truth fits his agenda. It was an interesting monologue never the less.
No, it wasn't our "own people", it was in large part because we let in other kinds of people with different ideas of what government is and should be than Americans.
Who the hell are you even talking about??? The vast majority of people in this county aren't direct decedents of the founders, including myself. I served and gave an oarth to give my life for the Constitution if needed, just like millions of other people in this country. We as a people have allowed what has happened. Your generalizations are useless.
And that's why we've failed. As long as the dominant culture was one of descendants of white Englishmen, we were able to keep it together, but letting in others started it downhill. Constitutional government of the type we have is an anomoly. Find it anywhere but in an English speaking country. You won't. The idea that government is limited in the way we think is almost exclusively an English one. Even in Europe, their modern constitutions run to hundreds of pages detailing mundane things in life. Other countries more or less copied ours and then promptly ignore them. But in England they cited the Constitution and followed it without even having a written one. In the US we used ours to preserve English government at the height of its perfection, the 18th century separation of powers model.
Except for the simple fact the #1 immigrant group into the US were and still are German. I agree with the premise though.
Here is what they are formally called:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Stock_Americans
This is what happens when lawyers are in control of every aspect of your life. Instead of the Congress dictating the laws of the land, the lawyers have conceded all control to 9 men and women in robes.
This is a huge mistake. If Hillary gets in as George Soros claims she will (
It's a done deal) Hillary and her lawyers will make us all slaves.
http://toprightnews.com/the-fix-is-...ion-a-done-deal-despite-trump-landslide/Congress and Americans must reverse this and Mr. Trump is our last hope. How did we let ourselves get to this point?
https://readfomag.com/2016/08/bracken-a-scenario-for-the-second-civil-war/
Consider this. The Supreme Court that we all despise right now is made up of Catholics and Jews.
I think the problem with Catholics originates from the single-religion Middle Ages of Europe. Everybody being Catholic including the monarchs, church and government intermingled so as to be nearly one institution. This gave birth to ideas that the government should perform tasks of the Church. The Protestant Reformation broke this link and revealed government for what it is, a competitor of the church. When the government performs functions of the church, such as providing works of charity, it is effectively competing with the church in a zero sum game. Most Catholics still haven't realized this and don't understand it but the effects are clearly illustrated by today's social states in Europe.
The main issue with the Catholic religion as I see it, is the over-reliance on God to fix things, whereas the Protestants are more of the "God helps those who help themselves" philosophy. Full disclosure I am a non-practising Catholic.
If we were to consider methods of achieving gun confiscation, agents of the federal government would not have to perform the physical task of confiscation. It could achieve disarmament via other methods. The feds could starve Americans into compliance (see Stalin's forced famine and the Iranian genocide). If all food and fuel shipments were denied delivery, it wouldn't be long before most Americans surrendered their guns in exchange for food vouchers so they could feed their families. Stockpiling food would not have the desired effect of sustaining families. In would incite others to attempt to take from those who have, which would be passively encouraged by government for it would hasten the outcome of gun confiscation. It would turn Americans against each other, which would benefit only government's objective of total disarmament.
I do not envision another civil war in America.
time people learned to grow their own food
It's long past time that we reverted to the original intent of our Founding Fathers. That way, we'd have no worries.
For the information of all hands; SakoAV/ aka Raisuli/Laguna: Is a convicted felon: Federal Bureau of Prisons:
Register Number: 84034-012
Age: 64
Race: White
Sex: Male
Released On: 03/29/2012
I see that too Jorge, but the biggest I see is the fallacy that govt should be charitable. They don't seem to understand that govts should supply justice and it's up to individuals to be charitable.
Think of how they have no problem with a policy that taxes you, willing or not, to be charitable to someone else. They don't understand that it is not charity, it is theft and repression. They bitch when the money goes to abortions or something, never understanding the precedent they have set.
I love The Church, but there is an impulse in all humans to attempt to take shortcuts. In this case, a shortcut to salvation.
If we were to consider methods of achieving gun confiscation, agents of the federal government would not have to perform the physical task of confiscation. It could achieve disarmament via other methods. The feds could starve Americans into compliance (see Stalin's forced famine and the Iranian genocide). If all food and fuel shipments were denied delivery, it wouldn't be long before most Americans surrendered their guns in exchange for food vouchers so they could feed their families. Stockpiling food would not have the desired effect of sustaining families. In would incite others to attempt to take from those who have, which would be passively encouraged by government for it would hasten the outcome of gun confiscation. It would turn Americans against each other, which would benefit only government's objective of total disarmament.
I do not envision another civil war in America.
time people learned to grow their own food
It's long past time that we reverted to the original intent of our Founding Fathers. That way, we'd have no worries.
For the information of all hands; SakoAV/ aka Raisuli/Laguna: Is a convicted felon: Federal Bureau of Prisons:
Register Number: 84034-012
Age: 64
Race: White
Sex: Male
Released On: 03/29/2012
Yup, pedophile in the classic Disneyland pattern, IIRC
...and one who just graced this thread with this little pearl of wisdom:
Modern technology has changed the rules of rebellion. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that NSA peruses these forums and saves content.
I'd venture to say that he gets paid by the word, or gets days taken off his sentence for his chit disturbing here,....maybe some of each.
GTC
I don't think there is any problem with Catholics, it is just that they are outside our constitutional tradition. The English absolutely abhorred and rejected the authority of Rome and those who lived in what would come to be America were largely the ones who went a step further and rejected the authority of The Church of England.
Go look at the history of the 1850s, it was a LOT like today. Nowadays when we speak of that era, slavery dominates the discussion. But then, the recent inundation of the country with Irish Catholics and German Porto-Commies exiled after the revolutions of 1848 were just as relevant. The Whigs dissolved in the face voter uprisings against unfettered immigration and there was a great deal of unrest. The movie The Gangs of New York touches on it a little.
JoeBob, what do you think it was about the founder's experience with government that made them realize it is in competition with God? Why do you think the Catholics didn't get that?
Honest questions. If we can figure out the answers to those, we can more effectively witness “The Way, and The Truth, and The Life."
The reason why we are where we are is human nature and the nature of government itself., plain and simple. You guys can blame it on your favorite demographic groups all you want but every free nation goes through the same progression to where we are. The question is, with our knowledge of history and awareness of this typical progression, can we step in and not repeat the same mistakes others have made before?
JoeBob, what do you think it was about the founder's experience with government that made them realize it is in competition with God? Why do you think the Catholics didn't get that?
Honest questions. If we can figure out the answers to those, we can more effectively witness “The Way, and The Truth, and The Life."
The founders didn't realize that. They were English. The English were fundamentally anti-Catholic.
taking your country back ?? from who ? from what period rocckinbar ??
Not sure what sock puppet you are, but I'll answer anyway.
From the Bolsheviks that are turning it socialist, and fugging with freedoms and liberties our country was founded on.
Any further questions?
I thought I was the only 1 who noticed the similarity between the rise of Trump and the Bolsheviks !!
Trump has been recruit peasants and uneducated workers by promising them how glorious life will be after the revolution LOL Make Merica Great Again !!
You lot live in one of the very few countries in the entire world where votes from citizens can change everything, and all you can talk about is killing your fellow citizens.
Interesting thread though.
My enemies aren't my fellow anything. They are my enemies regardless of their citizenship. You are aware of what a traitor is right?
Voting works at the local level, but we're always outnumbered by urban DSMFs that can't think or fend for themselves at the national and in some cases the state level in states that have democrap-ruled megalopolises.