....have, not can....

...started a fire -intentionally - without using contemporary traditional means and methods, ie lighters or matches?

Have you done it with "emergency" methods or tools like sparkers, magnesium/flints?

Have you used older, more traditional methods involving friction for a heat source?

Have you been forced to improvise a method in some way?

Have you done it under inclement (real) conditions involving wind and/or wet and/or cold?

Have you, perhaps, saved life, or at least prevented a situation from going in such a direction that it might have needed saving?


That thread over in "Alaska" got me thinking about this. I know many people who "can" do it in theory, but many/most admit that they have never actually tried it even under controlled conditions.

What you know might save your life; what you can do has even better odds. (Of course, even better is understanding what and how to survive without fire, but fire is certainly a great 'cheat' when it comes to ease of existence and a boost to morale.)

I have been to many "Mountain Man" rendezvous, one of the contests they have there is striking a fire with flint and steel and/or a contest to start one with a bow and a stick. I have seen these guys that can start a fire faster with a flint and steel than you can with a match. Pretty impressive.

I tried it several times, always managed to strike one but sure took me a long time fussing with it.

Probably, today, not one person in a thousand that finds themselves stuck in the woods somewhere could get one started with a pocket full of matches and would likely not have any with them anyway.

Magnifying glass - under perfect conditions.

I have started fires a lot of different ways, a couple times when they were needed.

The old friction methods are tougher than it looks. Did see an interesting method a few years ago under very inclement weather and no dry burnables... lad filled a tin can with gas, stuffed wet moss on top and lit it. Wood was stacked all around the can and smaller stuff laid over the top.

The moss wicked fuel out gradually and kept it cool, drying the wood enough for it to catch and then burn well.

I have, both with flint & steel, and friction.
Not saying I'm good at it, but in a pinch, i can do it.

I've used a couple different magnesium and magnesium-flint type strikers to make fire. It was done under favorable conditions while camping with the family.

I've never tried any sort of friction to make fire - something that I need to rectify.

in scouts we teach the boys to use unconventional methods like flint and steel and tinder made from the inside of dead bark. we have tried the fire bow method with limited success. we got a smolder going after much effort but never really got a fire. them cavemen were obviously much better.

I carried a flint and steel whenever I hunted. Used it several times, just to stay in practice. I'll admit that I usually needed a bit of "char" to hold the spark, but I carried some of that, too.

I was in scouts, my boy is in scouts. We have practiced starting fires quite often, but not in emergency situations. Thank God.
I have a couple different types of fire starters in my back pack. Waterproof matches in a sealed container, a hot sparker that works one handed even when wet, magnesium stick and dryer lint in a ziplock baggy, long burning firestarter sticks.

Two thoughts worth remembering.... friction can be a challenge for sure (...learning such involves some great lessons in humility. ) ...... and gas (volatile fuel) is nowhere near the simple fire-starting 'helper' many assume it to be (two cycle oil is much better ).

With the exception of dealing with the TSA, I never apologize for carrying a stray 22 shell in my pocket. (That's not a 'bullet', it's part of my emergency survival kit! )

Thermite and white phosphorus will start fires in inclement weather quick enough.

I've done it with flint and steel, not good at it wouldn't want to (personally) rely on it.

The magnesium stick/strikers on the other hand are a piece of cake, easier than a match.

The best friction fire I ever started was in the dry grass along an Oklahoma highway when a wheel came off of my '54 Chevy at speed!

Impressive!

I have taught lots of young men and women stating wit tinder from inner bark of a soaking wet tree and using flint and steal of a Blast Match.

You are not much of a fire builder if you cannot start a fire in the soaking wet where I live.

LOL



I like that you can step, drenching wet through every stitch of clothing, onto a rain-soaked beach, and still have a fire going with them in a minutes.

It's amazing how the vocabulary of 'tinder' and 'kindling' takes on so much more meaning when conditions and methods become.....less ideal.

Speaking of "inner" bark", this reminds me of how 'useless' a good thing in one place might be in another. Having lived half my life where trees are few except as driftwood, inner bark is not something I seek. Then again the ever reliable "dry grass" I am accustomed to reaching for on the coast seems almost worthless in the interior.

Mag and stick strikers under best of conditions.

I bought a flint and steel and tried it. Easy to do with a little dryer lint.

I've never tried flint and steel other than a flint lock rifle. Magnesium and a knife blade is easy. Friction works, but it's more work than I want in a hurry up situation.

I have started fires in emergency/near emergency situations more than a few times. Spend enough time outdoors in winter here and you will get into those situations. I think in almost all my stuff like tackle boxes/gear boxes I have fire making tools. I prefer birch for getting a fire started in a hurry. Can/have make-do with alder. When it comes to making a fire when it's raining and about freezing experience has taught me to do it before I have to.

steel wool and a 9v battery work surprising well

Have to be careful with dryer lint a lot of clothes & bedding are fire retardent.

I've started fire several ways without matches.

I never had much luck with friction.

I use magnesium or a fire piston mostly.

I like to snowshoe in the winter and always start a fire for lunch. Good practice if I ever need it.

That's what I like to do regularly, using magnesium bar/flint method under every possible condition I normally work with. I have used a bow and drill a few times when matches of lighter were left behind and a little extra trouble was better than eating cold hot dogs. (But I have practiced, through teaching, a lot of fires using a bow and shoestring.)

I have to admit that the bow drill method is probably not something I would have even ventured into had a group of students not tried to challenge their teacher 30 years ago. The first day was rather humiliating for them. Making lots of smoke by the second day was 'success' in a very humble way. At that point they realized that they couldn't just make a fire by that method simply because their grandparents had done so in that way.

The bow and drill method is pretty simple, with practice, by pouring a bit of gunpowder - pistol or shotgun seems to work best- into a small "trench" adjoining the drill pocket on a piece of wood. Some fine tinder over the trench to catch the powder's 'flash' can then be transferred to a prepared bed of kindling when it ignites. Spending time getting the fuels ready is never time wasted.
Of course, gunpowder is 'cheating' too, if one is being a purist, but no method that one can come up with - including the use of a spark from a spark plug or whatever- is really cheating when fire become a priority.

But, as survival methods are concerned, one must not become so focused on fire as to forget more important things.

This is what's really important! Severe frostbite has taught me to stay out of those situations I cannot easily control. Frozen body parts serve as a lifelong reminder of what those situations can be.

Klikitarik;
Good afternoon to you sir, I trust this finds you and your fine family doing acceptably well.

The worst conditions I've personally tried to start a fire in was a morning where a heavy hoarfrost had hit that stretch of mountains and was then subsequently melting off.

It was the first time I had a Bic type lighter fail - whether cold or altitude caused it I don't know, but it didn't work.

Next up was the old wooden matches that had been living in my pack for too long apparently....

Finally a magnesium block and ferocerium rod came out and that combination indeed made fire.

Nowadays I carry a fero rod, striker and tinder in my hunting pants pocket and in the pack have a pocket soldering torch, magnesium block, fat wood, waterproof and windproof matches and more tinder.

I tell folks if I ever have an issue on the mountain, unless I'm dead they'll find me right beside the huge fire.

Good thread and timely topic seeing as it's a wet day here and we just came down from chasing elk in the rain. All the best to you folks this fall and good luck on your hunts too.

Dwayne

Have used all the other crap, a jerry of fuel and a bic lighter is still easier.

^^^This^^^

It's always nice to hear what others have tried or done, the circumstances they've gotten themselves into and so forth....and survived!

But that thread over on the Alaska forum where the boat swamped and then three wet fellows come plowing down stream in a canoe together with a critter (which wasn't a survivor, and perhaps not recoverable either) kind of made me think about what people do when they get themsleves into trouble.

Certainly Alaska - and many other places- offer a great number of ways to get one's self into trouble. Yet we often aren't really prepared materially, and worse, not mentally either.

Clearly that was evident with that crew. And, while I don't really care to pick their sorry ordeal apart too much, I kind of though that a somewhat confessional/rhetorical type of thread might be in order.

As I said before, I have many friends who've 'done it'.....under ideal conditions. But, having had to try to demonstrate and teach students to do it, I know that fire-making isn't something that one can really master in a theoretical way. And a fire would surely have been a useful detail for that crew to have had available.

As always, Dwayne, I'm glad you weighed in with your usual level thoughts.

I think this was started with a magnesium and flint starter.



I know I was quite handy with a magnifying glass as a kid

But starting a fire in less than ideal conditions is a world apart from starting one in when you really need one and are wet and cold. The weeny roast was NBD, cold dry air dries wood out quite nicely.



Coastal environment when it's been raining for days or weeks, you need to be serious about starting a fire. And I have no qualms about "cheeting" when it comes to starting a fire. I also figure if you've going to bring fire starting materials, bring the best you can.

I can, and often do, start fires with firesteel, with magnifying glass, or with a bow drill. Lots of practice, on many camping trips.
I'll be honest though, I do most of my fire making with a Bic lighter or strike anywhere matches.
I carry a fire kit in all my packs. In it are matches, lighter fire steel and striker, dryer lint and small sticks of fat wood. I also have a knife, and some para cord with me if I need to make a fire board and drill. I have never failed to start a fire when I wanted one.

I start a fire every week for practice with the hand drill friction method. Just did it an hour ago. Horse weed spindle and cedar base board, grass for tinder bundle. Takes just a few minutes. If I've got a burn-in already less than a minute.

I am fully confident I can go into the woods any time without even a knife and make a fire using a shoe lace and bow drill method. I am also practiced at making cordage if I'm shoeless.

Those wanting to learn just need to go to U-tube. Friction fires. I prefer hand drill method with horse weed, mullion, red elderberry, cat tail, box elder. Base boards are white pine, cedar, bass wood and other non-resinous soft woods.

Friction fire just takes practice. You learn what works and what doesn't so you don't waste time. A set consisting of spindle and base board weighs practically nothing. I encourage everyone to try it in their lifetime. Fun fun.

I've used flint & steel during woods walks. I certainly wouldn't want to depend on it to survive though. At home I keep an instant light torch next to the wood stove.

I've used a fire piston once.

Wouldn't want to depend on that if it's raining!!!

most of my friction fires have not been planned, but do know how to build a good fire with a flint and steel

Yes it is.

In central Oregon juniper country fires are easy to start and both tinder and kindling are readily available. In Western Oregon and Washington tinder can be hard to fins bit we have big trees and a cedar tree can save your life in many ways.

I have made several kind of fire starting helps from petroleum jelly cotton balls to home made water proof matches that will burn for three minutes.

A key lesson to be learned from this incident is the importance of always having the essentials on your person, not exclusively in your pack. Pockets work OK but since I started using an Hill People Gear Recon kit bag to carry my Glock I find I can carry a headlamp , fire starter and knife as well as my Glock. It is comfortable and inconspicuous and has become one of my favorite gear items.


mike r

I've considered this but my 18 volt DeWalt gets heavy in my backpack.

Started a few as a child with a magnifying glass. Now in my second childhood, I've used various firesteels and magnesium blocks. No sweat with good tinder. A blastmatch works with one hand, in case you're not only cold and wet but injured too.

Amazon sells some gonzo wind and waterproof matches that witl actually re-ignite after being submerged or stuck in a snowbank. Even though I don't go that far off the road, some of those along with a firesteel and a butane lighter are always in my pack.

Check out Survival Lilly on Youtube for all kinds of firestarting stuff as well as shelters, cooking, and even some hunting. Lots of people have similar videos, but Lilly has the funniest dog. He is a hoot.

That's where those very basic little magnesium rectangles sold by Coghlan's and others come in handy since they fit comfortably in a pants pocket alongside a small folding knife which is always there.

One of the things that clarified my thought process in a helpful way was a 'cold water survival' course I took years ago. Surviving a cold water ocean or river incident will often mean you are reduced to little more than your basic clothing, if even that (assuming you might have ditched stuff which was dragging you down or getting hung up).

The first three steps taught in the course are 1) recognize (admit to yourself that you're in trouble), 2)inventory (what stuff do you have to work with after you're initially safe), 3) shelter (kind of goes back to step 1; don't keep pushing - "saving yourself" - when you're losing body heat faster than you can make it).

I bought a case of fire starters a few years ago. will probably never run out of them. just sawdust packed together about the size of a hockey puck saturated with some type of flammable individually wrapped. That and a bic lighter. even if all I can get is a spark out of the lighter I will have a fire in seconds. I used to camp every weekend.