OK here's the short story , ma lives by herself ,has her home in her name etc,...she is getting on in years and we see some medical issues coming ...for starters she has 3 people in the neborhood hired to mow her lawn ,!!!!, and shes the only one that don't know it ...she got a life insurance policy ..from we don't know who (we are looking into it) for 23500.00. It comes do in five Years for 25000.00 ...what we known is if she has to go into care/nurseiing home , .GOV will use all her assets up then , the old folk/.gov program will kick in ...what have you guys done /been thu? ....help !

Medicaid is a joint state federal office program so it is implemented differently in every state. Look into in. Lots and f beiracracy and paperwork on the front side, but once you get through it needed help and services start to flow.

Make sure and get health care and financial powers of attorney while she has capacity. Otherwise you will need to go to court.

National academy of elder law attorneys has an online register of attorneys who can be search for subspecialty, including Medicaid planning.

Good luck.

my advise is that you contact an estate attorney in your area for guidance rather than Tom, Dick or Harry at the Fire.

THIS!

FWIW:

My mom is gone, and my dad is 96, and still doing well. They thought they had everything covered when they gave my sister and I power of attorney. They did not realize that when they were gone, so was the power of attorney. We had an attorney do a trust, and transferred all assets into the trust. When Dad passes on, sis and I succeed him as trustee.

My MIL turns 97 next week. They had a trust done by an attorney, and it was a mess. Fortunately, one of my nephews is a very sharp estate attorney and he got it fixed just today. Moral of the story, get an attorney who specializes in estates.

I just returned from a trip to Arizona to deal with the affairs of an elderly, childless aunt with dementia in a nursing home. The most important thing that was accomplished during the four-day visit was a two-hour meeting with an estate lawyer.

You need to meet with a lawyer promptly, while as many options are still available to your family as possible. Yes, lawyers are expensive, but they can save you more in the long-run than they cost by preventing expensive mistakes or money wasted due to lack of planning.

Getting a trust set up and powers-of-attorney in place are very important, and it sounds like your mother's mental capacity could be declining already.

Also, if not already done, it will help a lot if you can get on to her checking/bank account as a joint owner. That will help when someone needs to takeover paying her bills. It will also allow oversight to make sure your mom isn't overpaying bills or being taken advantage of, both of which occurred with my aunt. Some bills were going unpaid, too. When your mom passes that gives you immediate access to her funds for important things like final expenses. (Which usually run from $5,000 and up). Also, it helps to consolidate various accounts while she is still living to simplify things later.

A female cousin and I have power-of-attorney for my aunt and we are taking steps to sell her condominium to fund her continued care in the rest home at $3200 per month plus other medical expenses. Her life expectancy at this point is weeks to a few months, according to the doctors. The lawyer also had us pre-pay for her funeral expenses which saved us 10% on an $8,000 funeral plan. We hadn't thought of that. So the lawyer saved us $800 right there.

One of the best parts of my trip to Arizona occurred when my family work was completed, I was able to share a big breakfast visit with "Roadrunner65" and "RoninPhx" before heading back to Northern California. Thank you, Joe and Ron for sharing that time with me. I hope to see you both again at Tonto Basin next year.

Lots to do. Get the right lawyer and you'll be fine. It won't be cheap unless you compare that cost to the cost of trying to straighten things out when it's too late.

atvalaska,

For God sake get power of attorneys signed before the dementia gets worse and Medicaid gets their claws into her assets !!!

Been down that road but I'm too sleep deprived to post more now.

Myron

I'm in the process now of getting my 77 year old mother's land put in my name. She's still in pretty good shape, but...

doover72,

Check that out carefully. Medicaid can do a 'lookback' at any transfer of assets to avoid paying for extended care. If they think the transfer was to defraud Medicare, they can seize the assets.

Myron

Maybe I'm missing something, but the only reason medicaid "gets its claws into" anyone's assets is to cover the costs of long-term care that's provided by medicaid, correct?

So, if a person needs long-term care, and has assets, that person should pay for long-term care, correct?

i would never put my my parents in a nursing home. we took care of my wife's mother till she died and my mom, have my dad here now but he's still doing good. Its hard but i feel i owe them that much.

Correct! That is why a responsible person works and saves; to provide for themselves and their family.

Jerry

You bet.

smokepole,

"Maybe I'm missing something, but the only reason medicaid "gets its claws into" anyone's assets is to cover the costs of long-term care that's provided by medicaid, correct?"

A power of attorney does not shield assets from medicare, but allows some planning that you wouldn't have otherwise.

Without a longer discussion, the worst case scenario is that the assets could be completely depleted and not leave even enough for a funeral. While the funds are still available, get a funeral plan pre-paid, which is allowable.

By being prepared, you have the option of getting some things done while it is still possible. If the person is going to be in nursing home care until death, you can sell real estate, household goods and other assets and put the money in a checking account to pay expenses until the money runs out, at which time Medicaid would start paying for it.

Myron

Both of my mother's parents ended up in the nursing home.

In reality, my mother spent more time taking care of them in the nursing home than she would have if they had been at home with her.

The decision to go to a nursing home was her Mother's. She did not want to be on the farm with her daughter. It was expensive, but there was no other option.

Talk to a lawyer, and the best accountant you can find.

You will have to get your ducks in a row to manage the money. It is your responsibility to do what you have to do. That may mean contributing to her care.

I have seen people abandoned in facilities that were sub standard just so the kids could save a nickle.

Interesting...I have been trying to get my mother and her husband to spend their money on themselves instead of socking it away for the rest of us when they die.

Bloody woman seems to think she has to live like a monk.

Medicaid has nothing to do with "taking assets"

Never say never (regarding putting someone into a home). It can take four people working near full-time to take 24hr, 7-day care of a full blown dementia patient. These patients also frequently become violent. They can also become escape artists, climbing 6-ft fences or crawling below windows.

That is what my aunt became before we could get her into a good, safe facility. It was against her will, but she is relatively happy and pretty controlled on appropriate meds now.

They are not the same person you knew all your life. Their personality is gone. They don't know you, or what day it is. At that point in time it is best for everybody involved for them to be put into a proper facility that is all set up to take care of them. My aunt's assets are being depleted fairly rapidly, but the doctors don't think she has very much time left.

My aunt's husband, my uncle, died years ago. He went instantly, from a massive heart attack, playing tennis in the hot Arizona sun. Some lives seem too short. Some seem to be a little too long.

Get an estate attorney!
If she wants to transfer property or assets do it now.

There is a time frame involved, 5-7 years (Not sure) if she moves to assisted living or nursing home and needs Medicaid for financial assistance they'll look back to see what assets she gave away within that time frame.

She can't give you money with one hand and ask for money from Medicaid with the other.

If she needs assistance in the near future, you can be grateful her assets are taking care of her needs.
Inheritance, who cares, take care of Mom first.

Several years back I served on jury duty for a case where the daughter was trying to get legal control of her elderly mother's affairs.

Mom wanted no part of it.

Daughter testified that her mom had symptoms of mental decline. Said she had been forgeting to pay normal bills regularly, buying things and donating money she couldn't afford, which caused her to run out of money between monthly SS retirement deposits, resulting in bounced checks + fees.

Her mom was a sweet, likable, cute little elderly lady. She had the judge, jury and watchers chuckling and snickering at times with funny remarks and replies to questions.

It was my opinion though she also showed signs of the things her daughter alleged.

Bottom line, mom kept control over her financial affairs.

She won over the hearts of jury with her endearing 'cuteness', ignoring her fairly obvious mental decline issues, which no doubt continued to worsen.

Atvalaska: The VarmintMotherinlaw just passed on 8 days ago.
She was a very nice person who sang in the choir of her Lutheran Church.
She was 85.
She worked most all her life.
She was homecoming queen of her high school.
She had a nice retiremnent, along with a social security pension, owned her own home, had a nice savings account and had very good insurance.
Sadly she came down with Parkinsons disease and was confined to assisted care living then a nursing home over the last 7 years of her life.
The costs at the end (last two+ years) of her life were over $9,500.00 per month in the nursing home - not counting medicines!
Her assets (home etc), savings and assisted living insurance were long since wiped out even before she went from assisted care living to a nursing home!
I am certain her care and medicines costs the U.S. Taxpayers (you and me!) way over $700,000.00 in the last 7 years of her life not counting what medicare and her insurances covered!
My mother in law's transition from this life to the next was not just horrifically expensive it was sad and very trying on her children and relatives.
Its just a fact of life anymore, a slow or lingering death will lead to medical costs that WILL wipe out any and all working peoples assets.
I have a friend who went through this type lingering passings, with both his parents and both his wifes parents, and he now contends "there is something to be said about a good old fashioned heart attack"!
Wishing your mom the best!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

My brother has P of A ,she bought the House a few years back, we are looking to buy it at fmv then renting it to her, I will pass on the estate lawyer stuff /my brother told me most of u fellows said ! We will lawyer up and see what we can do ...thanks men!

Good on you, J.

A trust is something a whole lot of people should look into if you have, land, homes or autos.

Cash can be a sketchy one unless your family is 100% above board.

what logic to use in passing assets from one generation to the next, while keeping the old ones comfortable seems like the discussion of the hour.

for me, i am hopeful the gov't (state, fed, UN, etc), will allow an organized exit. that is, an exit that is dignified, but self-chosen. the technology is there. whether the gov't can allow such is a matter of negotiation.

and to add fuel to the fire, for more discussion, every single cent of their assets left after death should revert to the local county recreation dept. there, that should set the woods on fire.

Just last week my mother was scammed by this person 876 366 1744. The number is from Jamaica. This person convinced her to give up her checking account number by sending a check to someone in California and she told them her SSN. We closed the old checking account and opened a new account. I'm not sure what the fallout is with the SSN but it can't be good. We closed her credit card account in May Mom is 87 years old and in the last 6 months has really taken a turn for the worst. She is also someone who thinks she has to be in control as well.

You need to get a handle on her affairs and take away her check book and credit cards. We have taken the check book away from Mom and we will be paying the bills from now on. We will also be getting her someone to visit with her weekly. If that does not work we will be putting her into assisted living to start with.

It will get ugly. Plan on it. It's been the week from hell for my brother and I.

If any of you get the chance and don't mind your cell number being "out there" please call the above listed number and remind the person on the other end just how much of an @$$hole he is. He's pretty tired of hearing from me. I'd sure like to pay a visit to his partner in California who received the check. My bet is the partner from California is also an illegal from Jamaica.

we're quite infested with scammers who have set themselves up to prey upon the elderly. one has to beware. there's others including IRS scammers. why the IRS don't shut down their clones is beyond me. and then there's the landscape scammers, and the jury duty scammers masquerading as sheriff department deputies.

at any rate, the ferociously independent elderly is quite the challenge. i know a bit about that subject.

the best thing to do is to watch and overlook the landscape with an eagle eye.

the scammers will have to be dealt with in a different thread.

Each case is unique. The capability and level of care required is different for each situation. While the ideal situation would always to be for a person to receive the necessary care in-home, from family, there are many factors which make that impossible in many cases. Time, space, the obligations necessary for raising and providing for a family, physical capability and expertise in the aspects of care all are things which can necessitate out-of-home placement. In each case, these things must be weighed in making decisions. It is neither easy nor pleasant to turn over the care of a loved one to someone else in another place, but there are times when it must be considered. It is heart-breaking enough to face without outsiders making a person feel guilty about it.

We've been dealing with a similar situation for the past few years with both parents. My dad's mental state is ok but physically he's been in and out of hospitals for years, including two hip replacement surgeries in the past year, and my mom's memory has become a big problem.

In addition to the good advice from others here regarding getting a good estate attorney and POA, we've found that dealing with Medicare is the biggest of issues. While they aren't technically death panels, Medicare does a lot to make a person believe that the death panels really do exist. A lot of care decisions end up being based on criteria that have nothing to do with what is best for the patient.

For example, Medicare stopped paying for my dad's post-op therapy after a set number of days, even though his recovery was going a lot slower than the average (he's 88 and healing/recovery takes longer at that age). They tried to discharge him from the rehab facility, which would have been a disaster since he couldn't even go to the bathroom on his own at that point or move around the house.

We fought the hospital's Medicare people hard and were able to get them to bend the rules to get a longer rehab stay for my dad, but they still ended up sending him home too soon. And, of course, that led to another fall within a month that got him his second surgery. After that, we were exceedingly aggressive in pushing back against the Medicare rules.

If you find the right hospital staff and are persistent, you can get a lot better care out of Medicare than they'd otherwise authorize. Don't be afraid to push hard, argue, coerce and do whatever else it takes to get what you know is in your mother's best interest. You won't offend anyone and it's the only way they provide what will be in your mother's best interests.

Hello Varmitguy.
My Mom has an older brother. He went to assisted living at the age of 87 (my Mom's current age) and he is still alive 2 years on and he has since moved in to a nursing home. I see my Mom going the same route. I'm beginning to see what you mean. Although my Mother does not have Parkinson's. I'm sure that's a blessing.

kwg

I count my blessings everyday that mom is doing well in a facility with minimum levels of assistance.

From what I can tell

*get long term care insurance when you hit 60 or so.
*have a will
*have a medical directive (living will)
*have appropriate powers of attorney in place
*go over all the assets, accounts, policies etc ahead of time with everyone that needs to know, but especially the executor

Then spend your money on the things that make life worth living.......

Best thing you can do, find and retain a lawyer specializing in estate and elder care. Laws vary state to state and what works for some here may not work for you. For example, it may be better to keep the house in her name because some states do not count that as an asset against medicaid. There are also some little known programs that they will be familiar with (like veterans Aid and Attendance benefits) she may be qualified for. I dealt with both my parents and in-laws final years and could fill pages with the those experiences, but it won't be the same as yours. Can't emphasize it enough, consult an experienced lawyer to guide you through it.

My mom was such a disagreeable person, that she went into a hissy fit if we even tried to clean out some of her junk.

She was also a bit hostile to her grand daughter and stepdaughter and stepson. We stayed away for several years because the distance and drive time was just too much to deal with, and then get the hostility when we were there.

First bad news was when the wife got a call at he end of August 1988 from the local police department in her town informing us that she needed major help. Said that she didn't respond to the door for neighbors or police, and the fire department had put a ladder up to an attic window and got in.

They said the house was a major fire trap, and the hallways were so stacked up with boxes and papers that you had to walk sideways to get through. They told us to get it cleaned out.

We made the trip that weekend, and knowing that we would be greeted with hostility, and she would call the cops if we tried to remove her "stuff", the first stop in town was the police department. Luckily, being in a small town made things much easier. They already knew about the situation, and told us to do whatever was necessary, and we wouldn't be hassled by the cops.

That was the beginning of a 12 weekend round of hurry-up trips that were 250 miles each way, and working our tails off while there. Then make the return trip the same night.

On those trips we loaded the misc. crap into large trash bags and hauled a stacked truck full of them back home so the wife and kids could sort through it while I worked all week, then we repeated the process all over again the next weekend.

We also had to take her to a geriatric clinic that was 70 miles away for evaluation. They kept her for several days, and we picked her up the next (I think) weekend.
It took a lot longer to arrange a nursing home and make the arrangements for her care, financial management, disposal of real estate, etc. that took the next year or so.

Thankfully she ended up passing from an aneurism before dementia totally consumed her.

Thank God that this all went down when it did, instead of when we got much older and couldn't take the physical and mental strain.

I may post some more later, because there were a few lighter moments that took place also.
Stay tuned

Myron

Be careful transferring assets out of your parents name and make sure you understand the tax implications. For example your parent is entitled to a lifetime exclusion on the gain from the sale of their principle residence. Also upon their death it will transfer to the heirs at a stepped up basis to the date of death. If they transfer it to you before sale or death you will probably assume their basis which if like my parents is quite low. Let's say your parents bought their home in 1958 for $25k it may well sell for $ 300k or more today . If they sell it the $275k gain is tax free. If they give it to you and you assume their basis of $25k When it sells you could find yourself with a taxable event. I take care of my mothers affairs as she is 92 and beginning to suffer from dementia. My brothers and I have POAs and her bank accounts are all joint accounts with all of us listed ( yes we all trust each other). It falls mostly to me as I live nearby. It's also good to remember that she and Dad saved for their security during their lifetime and not necessairly ours. Yes it's fine to preserve it as best one can mainly to see them through the end but its best to remember what she has is not ours and won't be until she passes and only then what she didn't need.