Hi guys, I'm hoping the post title snags a few experienced tig guys.

I've reached a point in my classic auto restoring business where I no longer care to MIG my open panel body repairs. I spend a ton of time fitting joints, I currently mig with .023 ez grind solid wire, 75/25 gas, grind, planish etc.

The mig process is my boat anchor, I'll still MIG stuff, but I don't want it for my open panel butt joints on exterior body panels.

So I want a TIG machine. My primary use will be 14 to 20 gauge steel. occasional 1/8-1/4" structural, not much though.

Butt joints with plans to metal finish the weld areas as smooth and true as possible.

What should I be looking for in a machine? HF start important? Pulse?

I've been looking at some miller machines. Maxstar (DC only) and the syncrowave series specifically.

I guess I'm looking for suggestions.

Thanks.

Miller EconoTIG.

A very nice quality high frequency outfit.

They don't give them away but you can pick one up for much less than the huge, industrial rigs and they will do anything you need out of a TIG unless you get into some very exotic stuff.

I looked for the EconoTIG and don't see it listed by Miller. But this model seems to be the closest to the econoTIG in features that they currently offer.

https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc....-907626?gclid=CLPdn5WT3tECFZKCaQod0wYPRQ

Very pleased with the Miller Dynasty 200DX. My first tig welder; just learning.

Any D.C. Arc welder set to straight palarity can tig weld carbon or stainless steel. All you need is a tig torch and set the leads to negative on the tig torch and positive to the ground and a flow meter and argon hose.

Once youv'e "tigged" you will never go back, if it works for the thickness you are working on !!! even if something is too thick you can always pre heat also, does help to have an extra set of hands if you are doing that though!!!

I'm not a welder, but I hire a lot of welders. Miller is the only machine I've ever seen unloaded into our plants, no matter what company it is I've hired.

The entry level tig units fall short in two places, advanced features for exotic metals, and low amperage for use on thin metal. While the exotic metal features aren't a concern for body work, having a unit you can't turn down is frustrating +P+ when working on thin metal. And those advanced wave control features further help when dealing with thin metal. Personally I'd want a tig unit that went down to 5A for working sheet metal patches.

Since this is a money making machine, I'd suggest going to your local welding shop, describe your use and have them go over the features of the various machines and let you test drive them. It's one thing to make due with an econo machine for home use where your willing to work around the short comings. It's an entirely different game when your burning rods to make a profit and want a machine that will reduce or eliminate re-work.

I've had a Lincoln Precision TIG 185 for the past 8 years. For doing sheet metal work it shines. It has a sweet soft start. It doesn't come with liquid cooling so doing heavy stuff it gets hot. I build custom bikes and it will do anything I need. I do thin wall stainless exhaust, 16-10 gauge steel sheet and full frames. Kinda week for aluminum.
If you get to my neck of the woods stop by my shop and test drive it.

I never welded body panels, but I've welded lots of steel about the same thickness. These guys like 50 to 60 amps. They also use silicon bronze rods for some welds,..which I've never done, but it looks like it makes a pretty bead for seams.

Kee-ryste all mighty. I post on a metal finishing section in another forum and I get crickets. Post the question here on the general forums section of the campfire and get run over with replies in the time it takes me to step away and do a small fender repair on an old ford.

I'll be damned.

Maybe there is hope for the campfire after all. lol.

^^ guy buys a Dynasty unit to learn on ^^

Wanna be friends? lol!!

That's freaking outstanding.

Of course, with a TIG, the amperage setting that you apply will be the maximum possible at that setting. You can feather it down to whatever works best with the pedal.

Most of the time I find myself working with the pedal at about 2/3rds regardless of the thickness of the steel unless it's a chunk 1/2" thick or more. Then it's "pedal to the metal" from the start.

HF start, kind of a big deal or no? I've heard guys complaining about tungsten sticking on a scratch start and having to stop and sharpen etc....

I never could tell the difference. If you've got your tip the right distance from the steel and you hit it with the proper amount of amps, it's not going to stick. It's just something you get the feel for.

After a couple of sticks where the filler rod becomes an extension of the electrode, you'll learn how *not* to do that,...lol,..

especially if you don't like wearing gloves when TIG'in.

I'd be looking at a small (light industrial class) ac/dc inverter with a liquid cooled torch and fingertip control like the Dynasty 210DX. For the difference in price I'd buy the 210DX over the 210.

Have only run tig a little but IIRC high frequency helps stabilize your arc when running low current and short arc, like when working sheet metal. Sure someone here can confirm or debunk that. Also IIRC some reverse current helps clean the metal but not sure if that is only aluminum or also with steel.

What's DX stand for? liquid cooled?

It's the Deluxe model vs the Base model. IIRC it's like $300 more...

Yeah,..the finger control is probably a good idea. It's difficult to operate a pedal when you're standing up and I would guess that you're going to do a lot of stand up welding. I'd leave off the water cooling. It adds a lot of bulk to an outfit.

I was kind of thinking finger control because I could be doing some long welds at the car and I don't care to be kicking that foot control along as I move around.

miller syncrowave. have one now. wish i woulda sarted with one. hard to beat imo

Exactly. I've tried it a few times and it was a pain.

Syncrowave is one I've been looking at in the 210 model.

are they HF start? I can't tell from the website.

The Maxstar series is another I was considering, it's a DC only machine but is available in HF

I'll dito the syncrowave. What you are looking at are rectifier machines. All good. But, if you have a chance to use a good generator machine, try it. Excellent arc density, smooth! A 210 amp syncrowave machine would be perfect https://www.millerwelds.com/equipment/welders/tig-gtaw/syncrowave-210-tig-welders-m00488 . Go with the water cooled too. The torch I use is water cooled, and not more cumbersome that without water. Worth the cost to have water imo.

If you intend to weld aluminum a machine that is ac/dc will be needed. And get a 3/32 dia Lanthanated tungsten (gold color on one end of tungsten) for aluminum up to 1/4" thick or a bit more. The real benefit with a Lanthanated tungsten is that you can grind to a point for a piercing arc. This breaks up the oxide layer that aluminum has. Much better weld puddle control than the ball ended pure tungsten that is traditionally used for ac aluminum welding.

For your steel weld work a simple thoriated (red color on one end) is typical.

I'm looking at that one right now. I've got 3 different outlets in my shop for welders, they are all 240 single phase, 50 amp circuits. Will that be good for this machine?

Yes, the Syncrowave 210 defaults in HF. There's also a lift arc mode, if you've got a helper with a pacemaker, etc.


You just need to ask yourself if you can live with duty cycle of this a Syncrowave 210.

You might consider spending half or a litte more than half on a used
industrial machine with a cooler.

Do you have a good local gas/welding supplier who can arrange a demo?

Gotta tell ya' he won't be the first one underwhelmed by that detail.

....BIGGER, WATER COOLED, HF START....Then, never look back.

GTC

240V, 1ø, 50 Amps is more than enough for this welder.

If you were a hobbyist or even an advanced enthusiast, the Syncrowave 210 would probably be great, but this is how you make your living. IMO you pay a huge premium for Miller to put together that nice neat little package.

This

If you have the money

Several people that I know that work with Machines every day tell me to stick with Miller for wire and TIG welding.

I was talked into getting the Dynasty 200DX and I am a Lincoln guy.

I have no regrets the 200DX is an assume machine. Just plug it into what ever you have and it configures it self to what is feeding it. 110 1 phase to 460 3 phase.
It really sings on 3 phase. 1 phase 110 will only run 3/32" stick 1/8" blows breakers.

I let another welder borrow it for a project and he fell in love with it.

Ditto. Buy right the first time and sail smoothly after. Buying substandard adds nothing but frustration. Damned if I would do that to myself

I'm trying to decide, maxstar series (DC only)

Syncro in 210? (DX option available when you jump to 250)

or dynasty... then where do you stop with dynasty? 210, 210 DX, 210 DX with water cooling?

It's only money right?

I prefer HF and it pretty much a must if using AC on aluminum to eliminate tungsten contamination. Keeps it all pretty clean in DC mode on steel too.
These inverter based machines are pretty much the bomb now days affordable enough to go ahead and get an AC/DC machine and plug 'em in anywhere. Duty cycle for low amperage like you will be using on panels runs pretty high on most of these.
Someone posted last year about a offshore Tig that used Millers boards. I'll look it as I think I saved it somewhere.

It's this for me.

I used a fairly basic, yet high quality 150 amp Miller unit for many years.

I changed jobs and they had a couple of massive TIG welders with all the bells and whistles.

They had the same type of torch and the same type of pedal as the earlier Miller unit I had spent years with.

When I was welding with the big, deluxe machines I was holding the same type of torch and operating the same type of pedal as was on my 150 amp Miller unit.

I never knew the difference.

I have a cooler on my 200DX and it throws welders because they are not use to seeing them with coolers.

Be realistic with what you'll use it for. While my dream machine is a 210 dx with water cooled torch, the full blown package is ~$5k. Now if you need what the welder offers in terms of arc control for various materials and thicknesses, by all means get the machine that won't hold you back.

If you're only going to be welding carbon steel body panels, it seems like an overkill machine. If you might be welding aluminum, stainless and other alloys and thicker materials where the water cooling is needed, then you can't go wrong with with the 210dx.

That said, the advanced arc controls aren't just about welding exotic materials, they allow you to put less heat into the material. I would think in the interest of not warping sheet metal, such controls might prove well worth it vs. just looking at the least expensive machine that won't burn holes in sheet metal.

There are some great tutorials on youtube that go over how to use the arc controls and the benefits. Well worth an hour or two of your time to understand what the advanced machines offer.

You will have to judge if you would want a cooled unit if the major use will be sheet metal because as you already know you won't be running any continuous welds if that's its only use.
Make sure you choose a unit that will go low enough amperage wise.

Friend of mine bought the Lincoln "garage Pack".

It came with the MP 210 wire feed and the 200 square wave tig.

He really likes that machine, and he is not a hobbyist.

Seems like the Tig welder goes on sale once in a while for 1100 bucks or so.

Lot of machine for the money.

I am saving my money to buy a HTP 221.

Regarding this ^^^^^. I'm pretty sure the Syncrowave 210 has basic pulse programs, you'd need to confirm.

If you want to reduce upfront costs, you can always add a water cooler and water cooled torch to the Dynasty later.

The whole spoolmate nonsense on the Syncrowave 210 is just that, nonsense.

...yup, as it is on the 211 Mig "Package Deal" as well.
The flow meter / regulator is pretty damn hokey, too.

Miller's Appleton crew act like rock stars, these days. I can say that, Appleton and I go back to 1982, and well remember when you could talk to a real tech, and get real data,....and honest to God product support that didn't come in a can labeled "our policy is".

GTC

We've got a half dozen or more of the air cooled Dynasty 280's at work and they are fantastic. While I have no experience with the Dynasty 210, I think it would be a solid machine and have everything you will need in one package.

For what you are describing you need it for, I'd skip the water-cooler unless you going to be welding 1/4" and up aluminum for extended periods of time and need max amperage. You could always add the cooler later if needed. We run the 280's for hours on end TIG welding heavy-walled pipe in the 120-140 amp range with no problems and no water cooler.

If your looking to save a few bucks, the Lincoln Square Wave 200 is a pretty capable machine. A buddy has one and I must say for the price it was pretty impressive. They literally have trouble keeping them in stock around here because that are popular with the hobbyists. I wouldn't get one for industrial type use though

I'm really not interested in the spool gun at this time, I know it's included in current promotions but I'd rather have a pair of tig torches instead, one foot controlled and one controlled fingertip.

I'm going to keep a mig machine around for plug welds, general purpose structural stuff like basically 14 gauge and up. Certainly there will be some overlap where there will be some 20 gauge I choose to mig and there will be some stuff up to 1/4" that I may choose to tig.

But for the most part my plan is to set up something like a 212 millermatic with a spool gun and 2 tanks. This way I'll have my steel and very rare aluminum needs covered in mig.

Then my critical sheet metal joints will be handled with tig.

I really don't think I'll be exploring duty cycle limits as I tack and short stitch light sheet metal panels with frequent stops for planishing.

Pulse and or other arc control features that can help me control heat etc... that is interesting to me.

Whoever hacked Dave's login, it's not funny.

Would you use that setup if it was free?

You weld quite a few panels as a restorer so you may want a name brand unit but this one has some advanced features and good reviews. You can mount this one on a cart with a bottle for about a grand and find out if tiggin' is where its at for ya.




When I apprenticed with a metal man in the 70's it was hammer and dolly with acetylene...I can still do it but a tungsten torch will do it cleaner and finer than even the best mIG in stitch mode...

interesting.

Hecho en China?

This is the one with Miller Boards, isn't it ?

VERY interesting,....that's a whole lotta' functions in one package, at a KILLER price.

GTC

Pulse is the only way to go.You can tune them by ear and weld thin sheet metal with no distortion.

I've got that one up right now, looks like a lot of machine for the money.

The tig I run occasionally at work these days is an old Miller and I don't remember which model it is.
I'm happy with it because I like having a complete panel for selecting settings such as
Contactor, Remote or Local", chose foot pedal or thumb switch
High Freq, Start,Continuous, Off. At start is handy for most everything.
AC, DC straight,DC Reverse, without switching cables.
I like a water cooled torch, the cable may be a bit more bulky but the torch, the nozzles and diffuser is smaller and easier to manipulate.
All the tig machines I've run have welded fine at 100amps and up but not all were workable at 40amps and down.

I ran a Lincoln 275 when I was welding well heads and it ran fine too

Yeah that's supposed to be the one.

mine is a 250 dx. have never ran in to a problem with the duty cycle. work days as a millwright and do fab/repair and ss pipework on he side. have done a pile of piping with mine and cant see the need for any thing more.

with the auto body and fabing for ND cant see running continuously long enough to have probs with tig duty cycle

I wanted to TIG the roof rack holes in my Cherokee so I thought scratch start TIG would be the ticket. As much as I tried I simply could not progress with scratch start, especially 18ga carbon steel. I spent a lot of time sharpening tungsten and in the end, used my Lincoln MIG to close the holes.

Welding Tips and Tricks has very good videos on Youtube.

I believe so but they are getting more right than wrong now days just like Japan and then later Taiwan made stuff.

I tell ya' what,....once I had the hang of those function knobs, I think I'd PREFER that setup to the Dynasty touch pad setup.
To this day I can't for the damn life of me figure out why Miller put that handle right in front of the LCD display

Dave here's a site that auctions all types of stuff and down here often has killer deals on equipment that schools or municipalities no longer need. I've got some killer deals on good used tools as you see many vocational schools upgrade and sell off lightly used stuff of all types. Look up " Industrial Equipment" for your state or area. You never know...

http://publicsurplus.com/

There's a Syncrowave 300 in AZ, Crossfireoops...


http://publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=1773844

Great leaping Floozies !
Let the bidding begin !
.....some of the stuff that turns up down in Tucson just leaves one shaking his head.

GTC

Haven't used much tig in a while, so I'll bow to the model this or that suggestions. But, as a custom car builder, once you get to doing some aluminum and stainless you will fall in love with the possibilities.

Don't purchase yourself short.

You can lead a horse to water..................

lincoln precision tig 225?

Sure, we're friends!

I didn't buy the Dynasty to learn on. I bought it for the long haul because I felt it was the best machine for my purposes. And, though I'm 73, and because I'd never tig welded before, I'm learning on it.

Found this machine, used, previously remanufactured, on eBay, for $1800. As soon as it arrived I had the local Miller service center do a thorough pre-purchase inspection. For the money, I'm happy.

That may be a three phase on the input side.

Go with Miller equipment, they have out classed Lincoln

Excellent.

Thanks.

Take a look at this unit.

Lincoln Square Wave 200

AC-DC, GTAW, SMAW, Pulse, High Frequency, Adjustable AC Balance and Frequency, Max 200 Amp. I own one along with another 20 or so welding units all the way up to Powerwaves and XMT's.

That is the big brother to my 185. Great TIG. The Lincoln TIGs start softer so you don't blow holes in thin sheet. I spent the whole day at Toll Welding testing all of their TIGs. On sheet metal and tubing nothing compares. You can work much faster.
Whatever you end up getting you should get a gas lens kit for your torch. It makes welding sheet faster and easier. Get a grinder and put a pair of green wheels on it. I have a cup and a straight. Only use it to sharpen your tungsten. I sharpen up 10 or so at a time so I can swap them out fast and not push a tungsten to far and get crappy beads. Get as light a torch and hose as you can get away with.
I have been doing a lot of big wheel baggers. I cut the frame then stretch and rake it, stretch the tank and fab a dash . From the 18 gauge dash and 12 gauge gas tank to the frame my 185 handles it. Doing the frame I do wish it was a 225 though.

I have a miller 351 with foot and finger control and water cooler. I use the finger control 90% of the time. Water cooled torches are the schitt. Small mobile and.....cool.

I had a lincoln high frequency box on my ranger 10lx and it worked well for dc.....but the big miller is a treat.

Okie, these are like $680 on amazon right now.

That's freaking crazy, hard NOT to buy just out of curiosity sake. lol

Yep. I think shipping is 30 bucks twould bring her to 710 to your door...or mine...I've been pretty tempted myself.

a lot of guys will poo poo it because they are an offshore, but i think you owe it to yourself to look at AHP Alpha tig 200DX I have the older 200X and it is fantastic. You cannot find a better machine for the money, work every bit as good as the blue machines i weld with in nuke plants

I've got one in the garage, like i said in a previous post, it runs just as good a the blue machines we weld in nukes with, best bang for the buck, hands down

I run the Power and Process unit of an ENR top 10 construction company, and all I can say is the BULLS#!T runs deep here...same/same as pickup trucks where "popular" posters proffer their "experience" based on their and their daddy's 4 or 5 trucks, where we buy 3,200 per year, and I've been told I'm "wrong" in my preference based on the above 3,200 units per year over the 14 years I've been doing this...whatever - different subject...but - Lincoln, Hobart and Miller, in that order and ONLY pro level machines, not consumer grade, make money in my business...FWIW...

We have $millions of welders...look to support from local vendors, gas suppliers, etc in making your choice. That is what we do in the US, Canada, the North Sea, Western Africa, South America, the Pacific Rim..and....etc...

In "my" world, and what I own at the ranch and our vacation homes w/115/120 service, Linocln Invertec and Square Wave machines ROCK!!!

except the duty cycle on the comparative invertec's are so bad they barely publish them, and its almost 200$ more. If you like paying for a name thats great, but he's not asking about industrial pipe welding, he doesn't need a 2000$ machine.

What pickup do you drive?

It pays to buy the best you can.