Apparently in Idaho established ranges can expand and cities and counties have no say in the matter. Even if state law changes, the ranges are grandfathered in. I hadn't heard about this law before and have no idea how long it's been in affect.
The range is about 1 air mile from town. I've never been there and have no idea which direction the lead flies but there are farms within 1/4 mile in any direction.


HAGERMAN — “My sister told me I have a beautiful yard. Too bad there’s a war zone next door.”

The “war zone” Hagerman City Councilman Jay Houser describes is Shaw Shooting School, a commercial shooting range where Navy Seals and Special Ops train.

The shooting school doesn’t operate out in the desert — it operates within the gun range’s line of fire of Hagerman’s schools, four churches, the city park, the city hall and 100 or so residences.

“Our town needs to be a safe place,” Houser said Monday.

More than 200 of his neighbors agree.

A group called Citizens4Hagerman has appealed an earlier decision by the county Planning and Zoning Commission that allowed the Shaws — 27-year-old Houston Shaw, two-time Production Steel Challenge National Speed Shooting champion, and his father, John Shaw, World Speed Shooting champion in pistol and shotgun and nine-time Gold Medal winner in three World Championships — to expand the facility. Houston Shaw has not returned calls from the Times-News.

“About 7,200 rounds of ammo are discharged daily from 5.56- and .223-caliber arms that have a range of up to two miles,” Hagerman resident Kathy McKenzie wrote to the Times-News. “The noise echoing off the canyon walls, seven days a week, seven months a year, with no restrictions, remind us again that despite safety, location and noise issues to the citizens of Hagerman, the Gooding P&Z have given this special-use permit carte blanche.”

The City Council also appealed the P&Z’s decision.

Houser sounded like he’d been kicked in the gut when the Times-News contacted him about the appeal hearing scheduled for Monday.

He had just been notified that the county had canceled the hearing because a letter from the Shaws’ attorney revealed a state statute that preempts counties and cities from having any jurisdiction over established shooting ranges.

“I’ve never seen a law like this that takes the voices away from the people,” Gooding County Prosecuting Attorney Matt Pember said Wednesday.

Meanwhile, the Shaws have withdrawn their application, because, according to the code, they don’t need the county’s permission to expand.

“The County has no jurisdiction to regulate them, thus any action taken by the County prior to the withdrawal would be null and void, as would any action the County would take after the withdrawal,” Pember stated in the memo to the commissioners.

Apparently the city has no recourse, even if the state Legislature were to change the law. The shooting range would be grandfathered in from any change in the law.

Pember has sent the issue to the Idaho Attorney General’s office for review, to see if he had interpreted the code correctly.

An attorney for the Idaho Association of Counties has independently looked at the Sport Shooting Range Act and came the same conclusion, Pember wrote in the memo.

“He was as flabbergasted as we are that the legislature would take the voices away from the people regarding local land use planning.”

5.56 only has a range of 2 miles.

What a bunch of dumbazzes...liberal bastids and such...

Kathy wouldn't like to live next to us in our competition years either I don't think.... screw her.

Noise can be an issue.

I wonder if the range was there before the houses, etc.

DF

Noise is an issue, but then I hear 2 ranges that are over 5 miles away. Its not a big thing. You get used to the noise. Like trucks, trains etc...

The world is not going to be quiet. Just my take on it.

Id bet the range pre-dated the houses if I'd have to bet.

I will never understand people that buy a house close to a gun range, railroad tracks,air port or freeway and then complain about noise.

“He was as flabbergasted as we are that the legislature would take the voices away from the people regarding local land use planning.”

Seems to me the voice of the Shaw's was not taken away.

The RR ones call me at city hall all the time. My reply has been gentle, BUT simple, you did not see the rails right there in front of your house?

But they run at night... um yes, even the roads are open all night....

The range is less than 6 years old, long predated by the houses and farms, some of which are pushing 100 years. It sits about 1/2 between the town and the river which is a popular boating area. Both are within 1 mile of the range.

So they allowed it to happen in the first place.......Smart planning.

In Jacksonville, the anti everythings managed to get Cecil Field, the Navy's Master Jet base closed down due to noise, and it was there LONG before any houses.

Expand? Just expanded mine to 400 yards. Can't see that far, but there always is hope.

So the outright political attacks waged against legally established ranges got so out of hand that a law was created to protect them. It removed power from the those using the local ordinances to execute a political agenda. And now the next class of abusers is concerned about what's "fair". Sounds about right. Like affirmative action for gun clubs.

I couldn't agree more..

Google Earth shows the Shaw Range to be just over a mile to Hagerman as the crow flies, and right next to the Snake River

The way I read the statute is that if it is in the county then it is legal. Perhaps those folks who are complaining should have spoke up at the hearing for the gun range, their best option would be to let their concerns be known to the owner of the range and perhaps he would be willing to set hours or certain days for being open.

From the Idaho Statutes

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 33
FIREARMS, EXPLOSIVES AND OTHER DEADLY WEAPONS
18-3302J. PREEMPTION OF FIREARMS REGULATION. (1) The legislature finds that uniform laws regulating firearms are necessary to protect the individual citizen’s right to bear arms guaranteed by amendment 2 of the United States Constitution and section 11, article I of the constitution of the state of Idaho. It is the legislature’s intent to wholly occupy the field of firearms regulation within this state.
(2) Except as expressly authorized by state statute, no county, city, agency, board or any other political subdivision of this state may adopt or enforce any law, rule, regulation, or ordinance which regulates in any manner the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, transportation, carrying or storage of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition.
(3) A county may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the discharge of firearms within its boundaries. Ordinances adopted under this subsection may not apply to or affect:
(a) A person discharging a firearm in the lawful defense of person or persons or property;
(b) A person discharging a firearm in the course of lawful hunting;
(c) A landowner and guests of the landowner discharging a firearm, when the discharge will not endanger persons or property;
(d) A person lawfully discharging a firearm on a sport shooting range as defined in section 55-2604, Idaho Code; or
(e) A person discharging a firearm in the course of target shooting on public land if the discharge will not endanger persons or property.
(4) A city may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the discharge of firearms within its boundaries. Ordinances adopted under this subsection may not apply to or affect:
(a) A person discharging a firearm in the lawful defense of person or persons or property; or
(b) A person lawfully discharging a firearm on a sport shooting range as defined in section 55-2604, Idaho Code.
(5) This section shall not be construed to affect:
(a) The authority of the department of fish and game to make rules or regulations concerning the management of any wildlife of this state, as set forth in section 36-104, Idaho Code; and
(b) The authority of counties and cities to regulate the location and construction of sport shooting ranges, subject to the limitations contained in chapter 26, title 55, Idaho Code.
(6) The provisions of this section are hereby declared to be severable. And if any provision is declared invalid for any reason, such declaration shall not affect the validity of the remaining portions of this section.
History:
[18-3302J, added 2008, ch. 304, sec. 2, p. 845; am. 2014, ch. 73, sec. 3, p. 189.]

I don't believe it's possible to be safer.

To hell with Obamaphones....what this country needs is free suppressors.

I like gun noise

It looks like on google earth that their ranges are generally oriented towards the river. None appear to be directly oriented towards any habitation and there is quite a bit of space between the range and the houses. I'm sure they can hear the gunfire from the houses, but there isn't any danger from projectiles unless someone has a negligent discharge in the opposite direction from the targets. The noise should also be well below any ordinance levels.
I guess my response to the "neighbors" is "Sorry folks, but you're just going to have to deal with it".

Good argument for making suppressors legal, that is without all of the excessive paperwork and six to ten months of delay.

I can't imagine any folks that are more schooled in safe gun handling and not shooting over berms than Seals and Spec Ops folks.

I would not want to live that close to a busy range, but it seems that someone should have thought about that before the land was used for such a purpose.

Reminds me of the story of my favorite condiment, Sriracha sauce.

When first opened up it was out of town, now folks have built around the factory and are complaining of the smell.

No zoning board seems to be able to see past the quick buck when it comes to planing.

It's not just gun ranges. I remember when they built Seattle International Raceway and then put a subdivision close by. Homeowners complained about noise even though they knew the race track was there when they bought.

Think about all the subdivisions and houses back in the hills that should never be there.

Fire Fighters get killed and home owners get burned up every year....at the cost of millions of dollars.

the map on their website places them closer to town and about due south 1/2 mile from your pushpin. However, the photos in their gallery look a lot like where your pin is, right on the river.
A number of their photos show houses fairly close behind the ranges. I wonder if they have a separate range for 5.56 shooting.

effin' NIMBYs will get you every time.

One of the best decisions in property rights I've ever heard of was in either AZ or NM some years ago. There was a feed lot built way out in the country. Over 75+ years, the city grew out and houses were built all around the feed lot. Eventually the new residents sued to try to close it down, nothing unexpected there. The ruling was outstanding. The judge said that the feed lot would have to move...but the plaintiffs had to pay 100% of the relocation costs. The lot owner got a brand new facility for his efforts.

RC, zoom in using Google earth and it;s obvious the pin is at the range. The entrance, a home, and other buildings are 1/2 mile or so away, at the end of public road.

GE will let you zoom in close enough to see targets etc.

I literally thought this was going to be a Gus thread.

Rock Chuck: I like that stance.

Our local range is about 3.75 miles from downtown. Well within range of most cartridges. Used properly though, no lead should be heading in that direction.

The encroaching neighbors in Corvallis, Or sued to have the college dairy shut down. When the college agreed and said they'd sell the property to a developer, the suit ceased. Seems folk would rather look at a green pasture and grazing cattle than the back doors of another development.

I noticed that. I wonder why the map on their website shows differently. Either way, though, it's still within 5.56 range of town. That bare hillside across the river is the Hagerman Fossil Beds Nat. Monument which has also been there longer than the range. Plus, the river is popular for fishing and duck hunting. I'm surprised they ever allowed it to be built there. By issuing the permit, they relinquished the ability to do anything about it.

Mailing address and offices vs the actual range Rock Chuck?

RC,

I would be willing to bet that if you were to give them a call and then drive out there and look at the range that they would be more than willing to explain what they do and why they think that it a safe practice.

It may well be time well spent.

It's very unlikely that I'll ever go there shooting unless I decide I need some professional training. I live only a few miles from BLM land with unlimited distance for safe shooting.

I'm not sure the impact fan is safe, but withotu knowing more, can't say for sure.

That said, .5 to 1 mile from folks, and they complain? Geez get a life...

Our personal range is out to 600 only due to terrain. And a lot of the shooting I do is about 150 yards from the house. I've never really heard any noise inside the house that would or should bother anyone.

I just took a look at the Gooding county (Idaho) P&Z ordinances and rifle ranges in the county require a Special Use Permit which means that the County P&Z Commission would have had to have a Public Hearing on the range. Given that they issued a Permit I am doubtful there was much, if any, public testimony against it when it was proposed and it is too late to do anything now.

Here is what the Gooding County P&Z Ordinance has to say about the requirements -

Rifle and Pistol Range:
Shall be designed with a backstop;
Shall be designed to avoid a line of fire that is directed toward any existing residence, business or roadway
within one (1) mile;
Shall incorporate landscaping that is compatible with the surrounding landscaping;
Shall provide supervision and security measures during periods of use.

It would have had to meet this requirements in order to be granted a Special Use Permit

As far as the State Statute I am glad to see that because it will stop ranges from being shut down by frivolous lawsuits and neighbor complaints. I have seen too many ranges shut down over those very things.

I am rural and have my own private range, at this time I do not have neighbors close enough to have any issues but to preclude that I registered my range with the County Clerks office so that if there are ever complaints I will have evidence of an existing range.

drover

I was thinking more on the lines of putting your mind to rest that they are not shooting in unsafe directions OR that they don't have shooting bays with big berms in the impact area(s).

I hear you on shooting on BLM ground, I do so myself. I don't have access to the canyon, but can find places to shoot up to a mile if not more.

Here's their website with photos. SHAW SHOOTING I'll admit that I have VERY little commercial range time since I've always had free BLM land for my shooting, but it looks to me like some of the berms are marginal in height. There are other ranges and houses downrange on some of them.

If nothing else, the controversy is getting them a lot of free publicity.

Cavalier Rifle and Pistol range here in Hanover County keeps buying up land as it comes available. We're now around 450 acres and looking to buy more.

Jim