This isn't sounding good for our neighbors to the north. Long wait times in emergency rooms due to too many patients using the emergency room rather than their doctors, and long wait times to see specialists.
Worst of 11 industrialized nations that were surveyed, apparently.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/na...failing+grade+survey/12928089/story.htmlWell, it turns out that compared to other industrialized countries, Canada has the highest proportion of patients reporting excessively long waits in an emergency department, a report released Thursday by the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) shows.
The report, part of a survey of residents in 11 countries sponsored by the U.S.-based Commonwealth Fund, shows 29 per cent of Canadians had to wait four hours or longer before being seen by a practitioner during their most recent emergency department visit.
That’s almost three times the international average of 11 per cent of patients who had to wait that long. Patients in France, Germany and the Netherlands fared the best, with one to four per cent reporting a four-hour-plus wait time.
Canada also topped the list for having the highest proportion of patients with long delays to see specialists, with 56 per cent waiting longer than four weeks, compared with the international average of 36 per cent, CIHI said.
In Switzerland, the proportion of patients who waited that long was 22 per cent; in the U.S., it was 24 per cent.
“In seven out of eight measures of timely access to care, Canada was significantly below the international average,” Christina Lawand, a senior researcher at CIHI, said from Ottawa.
“I think timely access to care has been a challenge for a while that we’ve noted from these surveys and from patient experience more generally in Canada,” she said.
“We’re not really seeing improvements over the last 10 years in timely access to care from a patient’s perspective, particularly when we look at timely access to family doctors or primary-care doctors or to specialists and for emergency department wait times.”
The results were based on interviews with 4,200 Canadian adults aged 18 and older, conducted between March and May last year. Surveys that posed the same questions were undertaken in 10 other developed countries, including the United States, Britain, Australia and Sweden.
Digging further into the data, Lawand said the surveys show that Canadians tend to go to the emergency department more than their peers in other counties, “and often they tell us it’s for a problem that could have been treated by their regular doctor.”
“So all of these data help to shed light on the bigger picture, which is what is it in our system that may not be working so well and where could we concentrate or focus improvements?”
That's what the democrats want for us
Yeah, but doesn't free health care sound like a great idea?
That's what I hear from the demochits I work with.
Yeah, but doesn't free health care sound like a great idea?
That's what I hear from the demochits I work with.
Let's talk about the definition of "free"...
Seems they pay extra taxes.
I'm not dissing their system, if it works for THEM and THEY like it, then by all means keep it.
Only family member I know of that was involved with it was able to afford to come down to the states for timely care when something disastrous came up and they gave her a 4 month wait to see an oncologist.
As a visitor to Ontario, Canada, it sounds like the care is all over the board.
The tax, as I hear it, is part of income tax.
The bigger end of taxes must be on tobacco, alcohol, and more I'm sure.
Perhaps a Canadian will chip in with real knowledge.
Perhaps a Canadian will chip in with real knowledge.
Unless they've had health care outside of Canada, how do they compare?
If health care is so good in Canada, why do Canadians with money come to the here for care?
I've been waiting since mid November to see a specialist {gastroenterologist} here in NY. My appointment is the first week in March. Canada's wait time sounds good to me.
Well, they do know more about their health care than a non Canadian.
Some Canadians travel to the US , and pay out of pocket.
Many buy travel insurance when planning to be out of Canada.
Well, they do know more about their health care than a non Canadian.
I never thought of that, thanks.
We did 4 1/2 years of that and it plain sucked.
What we need is DocRocket. I understand he practiced in Canada, and now in the US.
It would be better with 300 million more people and 20 million illegal aliens.
The reason their system has lasted as long as it has is because it is backed up by the US system.
I feel sorry for them.
If health care is so good in Canada, why do Canadians with money come to the here for care?
You answer your own question....because they have the money and can pay and dont have to wait, they go to Mexico too.
Sift through a few layers and I think you will find that some of these professionals (doctors nurses) want long wait times so they can leverage the government for more funding.
Honestly, its hard to know who is full of it, people in emergency because of a hangnail jambs up and overloads a free healthcare system.
I think most Canadians realize our health care system is anything but ideal. We pay a huge amount of taxes, out wait times are way too long and in many places its pretty well impossible to get a family doctor. That's the reason so many people use the ER, and why the wait times there are so long. I haven't had a doctor since I moved to Alberta about 12 years ago.
My brother and his family were involved in a car wreck while in the US a few years ago. He said the level of care they got as well as the facility was way beyond everything they had ever seen. On the other hand, the costs were exorbitant too, amounting to something over $30 000 for a few days stay. Luckily his insurance is covering it.
Seems like in the US if you get seriously ill you can get top notch care,and spend the rest of your life trying to pay it off, while in Canada you won't have to put up much extra money, but your probably gonna die...
If health care is so good in Canada, why do Canadians with money come to the here for care?
I have friends in Saskatoon and Regina Saskatchewan. They come to Minnesota for their serious health issues.
I have some friends that are Canadian. They told me the problem with the healthcare system was they have a cap on a doctors income. Once the doctor hits that cap, he quits until next year.
My friends told me don't get sick in December because there's no doctors around.
I had one occasion to use Canada's health care; at the end of a 4 week waterfowl banding assignment, I came down with giardia. I took one look at the waiting room in Ft. Providence, NWT, saw about 40 tubercular Indians, and scampered out the back door. But, it was Free!!
I think most Canadians realize our health care system is anything but ideal. We pay a huge amount of taxes, out wait times are way too long and in many places its pretty well impossible to get a family doctor. That's the reason so many people use the ER, and why the wait times there are so long. I haven't had a doctor since I moved to Alberta about 12 years ago.
My brother and his family were involved in a car wreck while in the US a few years ago. He said the level of care they got as well as the facility was way beyond everything they had ever seen. On the other hand, the costs were exorbitant too, amounting to something over $30 000 for a few days stay. Luckily his insurance is covering it.
Seems like in the US if you get seriously ill you can get top notch care,and spend the rest of your life trying to pay it off, while in Canada you won't have to put up much extra money, but your probably gonna die...
I have lots of friends in Canada as I worked in an international business based in the USA but with lots of our business in Canada.
Some of my dear Canadian friends have reminded me how cheap their healthcare system is. I ask them "what's your tax rate?" That pretty much ends the argument. They pay very high taxes to keep the healthcare system afloat.
I knew some clean-hands oil company workers in Calgary who were paying over 50% of their income in taxes. This was back in the mid 90's.
That Dale, is at least one, "Fly in the Ointment".
I find it odd. I was talking to a Canadian doctor on a flight one time and he was telling me how great Canada was and how screwed up the USA was.
Of course I asked him why he was in the states, and it was to make money.
Liberals are the same every where.
I can tell you, even when this was back in the mid to late 80s and early 90s... I was involved in the cardiology market, calling on hospitals and teaching hospitals in 9 states...
Wisconsin, Minnesota, The UP of Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska Missouri, Kansas and North and South Dakota...
They had cardiology programs at the Hospitals in Marquette Mich, 2 in Duluth MN, 2 in Fargo ND, 1 in Grand Forks ND, 1 in Minot ND and 2 in Bismarck ND.....
Each one of those programs, had over 50% of their business and cases come out of Canada. The Canadians had to pay cash on the barrel before the procedures, but also paying in advance they did get substantial discounts, since the hospitals didn't have to deal with the health insurance run arounds.
These Canucks had to cross the border to get the medical attention they needed in the time frame their doctors would tell them they needed it done in.
They would be told they needed a procedure to save their lives within the next 6 months for example or they would die... so they have to go elsewhere to get on a waiting list....
They would be told they couldn't get them in for the next 18 months... and they would respond they needed the procedure in 6 months or they would be dead... and the bureaucrat would once again respond like he never heard then, 'we can get you in in 18 months, would you like us to schedule that?'....
So they would have to cross the border and pay cash for the procedure... that is social health care for you...
My wife is Canadian and never had an issue with the health care system. I'm sure it could vary from province to province though. She thinks it's insane what happens here in the States.
Let see... wait 4 hours for care, or wait 2 hours for care and get a 10k bill. Boy, that's a tough one. I'd wait 10 friggin hours with a broken arm and be seen by a 1st year doctor from india to avoid the mystery billing that happens here in the USA. I work too hard for my money.
And tax rates.. Well, if you are shelling out 15-20k a year for premiums, plus a big deductible, (thanks obama), you'd really have to be making some cash to not come out ahead.
I'm from Saskatchewan. You're a hundred percent correct. Our health care system is a joke.
I've had both. Three major surgeries in the states while I was playing hockey. I can't compare that to ours though. We had team doctors that got me in right away. All I know for sure is you won't find too many happy people around here about parts of our health care system. Saskatchewan has one MRI machine in the entire province.
Seems like in the US if you get seriously ill you can get top notch care,and spend the rest of your life trying to pay it off, while in Canada you won't have to put up much extra money, but your probably gonna die...
This sums it up
... Seems like in the US if you get seriously ill you can get top notch care,and spend the rest of your life trying to pay it off, while in Canada you won't have to put up much extra money, but your probably gonna die...
I'll take my chances with living long enough to pay it off...
I wrote a fairly long reply but lost it when my internet connection crashed (I live in a semi secluded spot and poor internet service is one of the prices I pay). In short, I have lived on both sides of the border since I was seven years old. As an adult, I have experienced health care or had family members who experienced it on both sides of the border.
In Canada, health care is a service provided by health care professionals and administered by federal and provincial governments. In the U.S., health care is provided by medical professionals and administered by private insurance companies.
In Canada, the system has suffered under increasing administration costs and top-heavy management. Hospitals over-pay for supplies and budgets are spent on more administrators rather than on more front-line professionals.
In the US, the problems are similar but the money flows differently.
I am aghast at the cost of medical insurance in the US (pre-Obama or post-Obama). The entire system seems to be set up to provide maximum benefit for the insurance industry. Even the US military personnel have their health care provided by a private insurance company.
Ultimately, working people are almost undoubtedly better off under the Canadian system. The executive class might be better off under the US system. They can afford it and their employer pays for their health insurance.
By the way, the "clean hands" guys in the oil industry who are paying 50% income tax are likely dragging in close to a grand per day, or better, sitting on their duff in an office. The guys actually producing the wealth are probably making 1/4 as much and paying income tax at around 25 percent. GD
not 50 % income tax. 50% of their income in taxes. but that was just what they told me about 25 years ago
All I know for sure is you won't find too many happy people around here about parts of our health care system. Saskatchewan has one MRI machine in the entire province.
I knew a gal from Ottawa that blew out her knee running and was on a waiting list for an MRI. The last time I talked to her she had been waiting 8 months and kept getting pushed down the list by people that came in with more serious ailments like brain tumors, etc. They did keep her in pain meds while she was waiting however. She said that if she had the money she'd go to Buffalo and have the MRI but she couldn't come up with the money. If you wanted to get an earful then get her on the subject of the Canadian health care system, you'd better have a few hours though. That was one Canadian that was NOT happy about their health care.
I know a lady from Swift Current, Alberta. She said she never had the problems Rush Limbaugh mentions about Canadas healthcare. She is a very active , health conscious woman. A Christian , most likely fasts one day a month, no alcohol , or cigs , , , very happy person too. She most likely seldom went to the doctor neither because of this. I am also dismayed at our cost of our healthcare costs. We pay about 9k but my wife works for the hospital so she gets a discount. I went for a yearly physical , told the doctor I had a bump above my abdomen. One look and said it's likely a upper abdomen rupter. Went for a council at the hospital on advise from my doctor. It was a 3-5 minute consultation. I get the bill, it was $ 1,000 dollars. I get the revised bill, insurance pays 678, I pay $ 323 for a 5 min. doctor visit. I just payed it and won't even bother to get the hernia done. In all honesty, what would the operation cost , if just looking at it was $1,000 ? I imagine $ 50,000 ? Not joking, what would it be. I am sure it will set me back my deductible of $5,000. It's been there for 35 years. Very likely will be there when I die unless it starts to hurt. My biggest prayer is " God , don't let us get sick" .
I find it odd. I was talking to a Canadian doctor on a flight one time and he was telling me how great Canada was and how screwed up the USA was.
Of course I asked him why he was in the states, and it was to make money.
Liberals are the same every where.
My number one response to people that want America to suck is "Why don't you just live in Canaduh?"
Dave
12 pack of Blue $24. Had to go to the hospital once while on a hunting trip. Shared a double room with a woman. Quote from a hospital worker, "the rooms are dirty and there's no money to clean them up". Just a few rambeling thoughts.
I went hunting in Ontario a couple years back. I was speaking with the guide and he said he drove 6 hours to get to an appointment for a torn rotator cuff in his shoulder.
It took 6 months or so to get the appointment. He got there and they said nothing was wrong with his left shoulder. He was furious and got up and left. He told me that they had someone else's medical records and he didn't trust them to do the surgery. He was thinking of coming to the U.S. and paying cash to have the surgery done.
I know a lady from Swift Current, Alberta. She said she never had the problems Rush Limbaugh mentions about Canadas healthcare. She is a very active , health conscious woman. A Christian , most likely fasts one day a month, no alcohol , or cigs , , , very happy person too. She most likely seldom went to the doctor neither because of this. I am also dismayed at our cost of our healthcare costs. We pay about 9k but my wife works for the hospital so she gets a discount. I went for a yearly physical , told the doctor I had a bump above my abdomen. One look and said it's likely a upper abdomen rupter. Went for a council at the hospital on advise from my doctor. It was a 3-5 minute consultation. I get the bill, it was $ 1,000 dollars. I get the revised bill, insurance pays 678, I pay $ 323 for a 5 min. doctor visit. I just payed it and won't even bother to get the hernia done. In all honesty, what would the operation cost , if just looking at it was $1,000 ? I imagine $ 50,000 ? Not joking, what would it be. I am sure it will set me back my deductible of $5,000. It's been there for 35 years. Very likely will be there when I die unless it starts to hurt. My biggest prayer is " God , don't let us get sick" .
I am from swIft current. It is not in Alberta. It is in Saskatchewan and the problems are so bad here people are driving 2 hours to regina to have babies.
...people are driving 2 hours to regina to have babies.
They could try the bark method, but I would not recommend it.
I have had extensive medical care on both sides of the border, each as a local resident.
Mixed bag on both sides. Some examples:
1. I got a serious rare disease while living in the US, worked my way up through specialists, had Regency Blue Shield lie to me in documented communications and then cancel my insurance in mid-disease, concluded from research that the best specialist in the world for my case was in Canada, had my top US specialists follow the Canadian doc's treatment protocol for me and three other patients with surprising success, and then on the advice of the US docs, went to the specialist in Canada for the corrective surgery needed since he had more experience with that surgical procedure than anybody.
2. Wife had disabling sciatic nerve pain while living in Canada, with severe pain. Worked our way through the Canadian system, were given urgent status for an MRI which meant a wait of six weeks to six months, went to a private MRI clinic, paid cash and got same day service and the first progress in identifying and curing the cause of the pain.
Observations: irresponsible people who use emergency care for routine medical needs are hurting the Canadian system financially and clogging the system. Medical care is erratic on both sides but especially so in Canada, from excellent to poor, depending on where you are and who your doctor is. Having lived half of my life on each side of the border, some of the best doctors in Canada have gone to the US in years past because they could make more money. I.e our kids born in Los Angeles were delivered by Canadian doctors who moved to L.A. We like our family doctor but he is in a town 20 miles away from us and our local hospital, so we checked on changing doctors. Impossible. They are all maxed out with patients and taking on no new ones (which contributes to use of ER for routine medical needs).
I know a lady from Swift Current, Alberta. She said she never had the problems Rush Limbaugh mentions about Canadas healthcare. She is a very active , health conscious woman. A Christian , most likely fasts one day a month, no alcohol , or cigs , , , very happy person too. She most likely seldom went to the doctor neither because of this. I am also dismayed at our cost of our healthcare costs. We pay about 9k but my wife works for the hospital so she gets a discount. I went for a yearly physical , told the doctor I had a bump above my abdomen. One look and said it's likely a upper abdomen rupter. Went for a council at the hospital on advise from my doctor. It was a 3-5 minute consultation. I get the bill, it was $ 1,000 dollars. I get the revised bill, insurance pays 678, I pay $ 323 for a 5 min. doctor visit. I just payed it and won't even bother to get the hernia done. In all honesty, what would the operation cost , if just looking at it was $1,000 ? I imagine $ 50,000 ? Not joking, what would it be. I am sure it will set me back my deductible of $5,000. It's been there for 35 years. Very likely will be there when I die unless it starts to hurt. My biggest prayer is " God , don't let us get sick" .
I am from swIft current. It is not in Alberta. It is in Saskatchewan and the problems are so bad here people are driving 2 hours to regina to have babies.
She is in her mid 40's however , and does not live there anymore and dont know when she left. But you guys have big bucks to shoot .
Tort Reform is the first step boys.
What we need is DocRocket. I understand he practiced in Canada, and now in the US.
He has already stated previously on the Fire he came to the US because medical care is in the can in Canada.
Prices are high here because dimocraps have illegals and the poor getting their hospital fees covered by jacking up the fees on those with jobs and insurance.
How about I give you some real data regarding taxation. I make just under 80k a year and I pay around 13k in income taxes a year. There's a 12% sales tax on most items in BC. I don't feel all that overtaxed. I guess you could add on property tax and license fees, but I guess you could do the same just about anywhere. My cottage in Hawaii seems to have property taxes I need to pay for it.
Health care in Canada has been getting better at prioritizing. If you go in to the ER with chest pains, they get you in and hooked up to all sorts of machinery right away. If you go in to the ER because you are an idiot and sliced off a chunk of your finger and nothing else is open, you might wait a few hours until more serious things have been taken care of. Per capita, Canada spends less on health care by a decent amount. But it's universal, meaning nobody gets left out. If you are chronically ill, you don't pay more than anyone else. If you make minimum wage, you can still get health care without taking food off your children's table.
The interesting thing is that we always compare ourselves to our nearest neighbors. I'm not sure it's productive to do so as neither of our countries is at the top of the health care rankings by a fair distance:
http://thepatientfactor.com/canadia...ns-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/If I wanted to pay for health care I'd go to Mexico, Colombia or India. It's much cheaper for those who can afford to pay and the quality of care is very good if you shop around. Hopefully I won't have to do that.
While in Mexico over the Christmas Holidays, I needed a trip to a doctor for a staph infection. I got right in with no wait, paid about $25 US, he cleaned up the wound, cut it open so it could 'breathe', washed it out, bandaged it up and gave me a prescription. The $25 was worth it just to avoid having a wait, much less the excellent care. My mom had a three day hospital stay there a couple of years back and it cost about $1200.00
I was under the impression that in the US "illegals and the poor" had their hospital fees covered by government rather than the private sector. Is this not the case? I know Obamacare threw a wrench into that idea but that's over now, right?
If you need a hip or knee replacement or have a sports injury you might have a fairly long wait in Canada. I think we should be looking to some of the best health care systems in the world however to give us some ideas on how to keep it affordable and efficient.
I've been waiting since mid November to see a specialist {gastroenterologist} here in NY. My appointment is the first week in March. Canada's wait time sounds good to me.
You live in socialist New York, I can get an appointment next week here in Texas. Good luck with your appointment. I have a friend in Canada and his Mother was killed by her gastroenterologist. She had stomach pain and he treated with antacids and such for years. The pain got so bad that they took her to the emergency room. One X-ray showed she was eaten up with cancer she died shortly after that.
If I wanted to pay for health care I'd go to Mexico, Colombia or India. It's much cheaper for those who can afford to pay and the quality of care is very good if you shop around. Hopefully I won't have to do that.
I hope you don't either.
However, if you come down with something really bad like a brain tumor in a tricky location or you need a heart transplant, are you going to go to Mexico, Colombia, or India, or are you going to go to the U.S.? Make no mistake about it, the best health care period is available in the U.S., no where else comes close. You can argue "systems" all you want, but if you want the best you come here. One look at the ramp at the Rochester, MN, airport will tell you something when you see all the private jets with arabic writing on them. Those middle eastern kings and dictators fly right over europe and Canada to get to the Mayo Clinic when they have something that really needs to be fixed.
Canadian health care, like most socialized medicine countries, is pretty good if you have something common and minor. Canada's citizens benefit greatly from having the U.S. next door to pick up the slack when your "system" isn't able to handle something. When Saskatchewan's one MRI machine is overbooked you can pop across the border and pay for an MRI at almost any hospital in the U.S. Newfoundland and Labrador's premier Danny Williams said it well when he went to Florida for his heart operation instead of trusting the Canadian system. "I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics" Williams said.
Mike;
Good evening to you sir, I hope the weekend's been treating you acceptably well and spring has sorta sprung out in your part of the Island. Our daughter in Victoria indicated it's a bit nicer there than here - which is as it should be for this time of year.
I appreciated you taking the time to answer as you did and the way you articulated it. Well done sir.
Since I've been on the 'Fire here I've attempted to answer this topic a few times over the years and sometimes felt like I did a better job than others.
A few things to remind our friends south of the line which are in my view quite pertinent to keep in mind, the first of which is there's not a whole lot of us up here and even though most of us are within a couple hundred miles of the medicine line, we're still quite spread out.
That necessarily means that any infrastructure we're trying to maintain - healthcare, education, transportation, defense, etc and etc - is going to cost each and every one of us more to maintain.
Other Canucks have already touched on this, but "average healthcare" up here doesn't really exist in that it'll vary wildly by region within each province and even more so province to province. There's a number of reasons for that - local economy and ability to attract doctors being a huge variable.
For example while we've lobbied for better hospital facilities in Penticton for years, now that they're building it some local entrepreneurs have stepped forward with huge donations for equipment. There aren't folks like that in some areas of the Cariboo or Kootenays like there are here in the comparatively wealthy south Okanagan, right?
Lastly while I've got distant family who are involved in US healthcare - 2nd cousin who is a doctor in Missouri - it's been so long since I've had contact with her that I can't comment as to what her thoughts on the difference might look like.
We get additional insurance when we travel stateside and touch wood have yet to use it when we've been across the medicine line.
Anyway sir, that's all I've got for now, thanks again for your comments and all the best to you this spring.
Dwayne
As always the calm voice of reason from Dwayne.
Health care seems to be the unsolvable can of worms, north, or south of the "Medicine Line".
About 6-8 months ago a meeting of conservatives had a Canadian physician in to speak.. He told the group, in no uncertain terms, that Canadian health care is a nightmare.
He finally left Canada after over 30 years as chief of surgery for a major hospital there because he couldn't further stand the BS and lack of competency and care in Canadian hospitals..
He spoke for about an hour - and you could hear a pin drop during the entire time..
Here, along the border, you will find a lot of physicians who have come over here to practice because they can make a lot more money than they can in the Canadian system. I'm sure that contributes to the problem over there.
What we need is DocRocket. I understand he practiced in Canada, and now in the US.
He has already stated previously on the Fire he came to the US because medical care is in the can in Canada.
Prices are high here because dimocraps have illegals and the poor getting their hospital fees covered by jacking up the fees on those with jobs and insurance.
I did indeed practice in Canada prior to immigrating to the USA in 1996. Their healthcare economy was a mess then and continues to be so.
In addition to being a practicing doc, I also served on a working group of the Alberta Medical Association branch of the CMA, which was convened to study alternative funding mechanisms to fee-for-service for primary care docs. This expanded into a general study of healthcare systems in Europe and OZ/NZ, which formed my opinions on the roots of the problem and the possible solutions.
Canada's medical care system was founded on the idea that there should be a broad, basic healthcare plan for ALL citizens, paid for largely by taxes, but into which each participant made a small payment. Private medical care would still be allowed, but subsequent laws enacted in some provinces and eventually in Ottawa made private insurance and private medical practice illegal. There have been some exceptions made, but basically the law there says there's one system, and everyone is in it. Which is the biggest problem Canada faces.
Because in Europe and elsewhere, it was recognized from the get-go that a 100% national healthcare system would be overwhelmed quickly. So private care (both medical practice and insurance plans) were/are allowed, for those who can afford it. Some docs practice in both plans, particularly specialists, but most of the generalists/primary care docs are in the public system. The private system off-loads much of the medical care demand, and allows the public system to remain effective. You can get your hip replacement done faster in the private system, or you can have your COPD treated in a nicer hospital in the private system, but if you're in the public system you'll still get the treatment you need, eventually; you'll just have to wait longer to get it, and it will be frills-free.
Canada's solution was stupid. By eliminating the "hi-pressure safety valve" of the private system, they forced everyone to take the same kind of care and the system has bogged down more and more badly. Long wait times for elective surgeries such as hip replacements are very long, and even emergency surgeries may be delayed so long that people die before they get to see a surgeon.
Like America's Democrats after the 2016 election, Canada's healthcare plutocrats keep doubling down on their bad bet... they keep trying to make the public system, which has been failing badly for decades... work. They continue to refuse to encourage a higher-tier self-pay private system. They keep pouring good money after bad.
In the USA, we can learn from this mess. First, I believe a broad, basic "safety net" healthcare plan can be practical and sustainable. It's proven so in Europe and elsewhere. But it's imperative that a private system be encouraged simultaneously, and that private system needs to be clean and straightforward, unlike our current US healthcare insurance laws.
I have no idea if the political will to take this on exists. Interesting times.
I have no idea if the political will to take this on exists. But if it did, here's what I would prescribe, in the broad brushstrokes.
1. Initiate a NHS (national healthcare system) that all citizens would be eligible for. Make a quarterly premium, based on income, mandatory to participate in the system. This token payment has been proven time and again to be necessary for people to value the system, because if healthcare is free, it's worthless.
2. Require all state-funded hospitals to accept NHS patients and NHS fee schedules. These would be negotiated, not just set by Medicare/Medicaid decree. Scrap the current Medicare/Medicaid administration. Bureaucracy is choking the system out.
3. Require private hospitals to be self-funding. No state money goes to them, but on the other hand they don't have to waste money/resources on the BS that currently clogs the hallways of ALL hospitals. If all their patients are funded, they can provide fast top-notch care at a lower price because they don't have to inflate their prices to compensate for the lousy Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement model, which only pays pennies on the dollar.
4. Revamp healthcare insurance legislation so all plans must be available nationwide. Make the companies compete in a true free market rather than the protected regional/state markets they now enjoy and profit from.
5. Establish nationwide tort/liability reform so frivolous and greedy lawsuits don't continue to destroy the system from the bottom up. States that have enacted such laws have benefitted enormously. At the same time, you have to enact meaningful patient compensation systems for folks who have bad medical outcomes, such as the Wisconsin Patient Compensation Fund.
6. Establish financial incentives to encourage our best and brightest to go into medicine. We are currently losing our smartest kids who want to study medicine because the cost of a medical education is enormous and the level of payment for medical practice continues to shrink, relatively speaking. We need AMERICAN kids who can speak English and love America to be our next generation's doctors, not immigrant doctors who are unable to function effectively in what is, to them, a foreign country.
Etc, etc, etc.
Strangely, there was never any public discourse involved in the now prevalent view that healthcare should be free. Good food or good care will never be free.
I practiced with an eye surgeon who left Canada because he had skills that could not be developed when he was only allowed to do cataract sx and intraocular lens implants 4 hours per month. He had patients needing sx backed up for a year the govt wouldnt foot the bill for.
Posts by DocRocket and BC30cal are ALWAYS worth reading -- as again shown in this thread.
John
our Supreme Court should have batted Obongocare back into the trash bin. also queers getting married. both are absurd and ridiculous.
jagtx... your eye guy's experience betrays the dark underbelly of the "free-for-all" healthcare mentality, which is RATIONING.
You can pick any two of the three attributes of a healthcare system:
CHEAP
FAST
GOOD
Pick any 2. You can't have all 3.
Canada picked Cheap and Good, so they lost Fast. Somebody has to direct traffic, i.e., manage the rationing, which is reallly unpopular among consumers... but Canada had a compliant population after decades of socialist governments.
Decisions on OR time and position on waiting lists for "emergency" surgery are made by non-clinical bureaucrats. Since the docs are all too busy actually delivering medical care to patients, this falls on the shoulders of RN's, mostly, and typically not RN's who have any clinical experience.
So the major decisions made on people's healthcare are being made by bureaucrats.
Not a good situation.
Thanks for the kind words, jpb. Looking forward to reading BC30CAL's comments.
My first introduction to the Canadian health care system involved the husband of my wife's best friend who had a history of heart problems.
At age 38 he began suffering severe Angina. He called to make an appointment with a doctor and was told to be there in 2 weeks.
He was dead in a week.
My first introduction to the Canadian health care system involved the husband of my wife's best friend who had a history of heart problems.
At age 38 he began suffering severe Angina. He called to make an appointment with a doctor and was told to be there in 2 weeks.
He was dead in a week.
history and chest pain should equal ER visit, eh?
Fast service, no emergency rooms there?
I have no idea if the political will to take this on exists. But if it did, here's what I would prescribe, in the broad brushstrokes.
1. Initiate a NHS (national healthcare system) that all citizens would be eligible for. Make a quarterly premium, based on income, mandatory to participate in the system. This token payment has been proven time and again to be necessary for people to value the system, because if healthcare is free, it's worthless.
2. Require all state-funded hospitals to accept NHS patients and NHS fee schedules. These would be negotiated, not just set by Medicare/Medicaid decree. Scrap the current Medicare/Medicaid administration. Bureaucracy is choking the system out.
3. Require private hospitals to be self-funding. No state money goes to them, but on the other hand they don't have to waste money/resources on the BS that currently clogs the hallways of ALL hospitals. If all their patients are funded, they can provide fast top-notch care at a lower price because they don't have to inflate their prices to compensate for the lousy Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement model, which only pays pennies on the dollar.
4. Revamp healthcare insurance legislation so all plans must be available nationwide. Make the companies compete in a true free market rather than the protected regional/state markets they now enjoy and profit from.
5. Establish nationwide tort/liability reform so frivolous and greedy lawsuits don't continue to destroy the system from the bottom up. States that have enacted such laws have benefitted enormously. At the same time, you have to enact meaningful patient compensation systems for folks who have bad medical outcomes, such as the Wisconsin Patient Compensation Fund.
6. Establish financial incentives to encourage our best and brightest to go into medicine. We are currently losing our smartest kids who want to study medicine because the cost of a medical education is enormous and the level of payment for medical practice continues to shrink, relatively speaking. We need AMERICAN kids who can speak English and love America to be our next generation's doctors, not immigrant doctors who are unable to function effectively in what is, to them, a foreign country.
Etc, etc, etc.
Thanks for taking the time for your input as there are many fallacies held by Americans who dream of a socialized healthcare system in our country.
I have a friend who is nurse/dietician from Alberta. She is working in the US the past 15 years because of low pay and inability to find a job in Canada. She is really a caring and very competent healthcare worker and has a heck of a work ethic. Like other natives up north she advised the healthy like Canadian healthcare and it helps if you live in an populated urban area as the rural areas are really underserved
My primary care Dr went to med school in England and worked there a few years and left because of the bureaucracy and the immigrated to Canada and experienced the same. She told me she was not allowed to practice healthcare, again bloated bureaucracy, as she wanted and came to the US. I really like her
Not sure it's inferior to the US insurance model where someone works for 35 years where he and his employer paid in probably $200k in premiums with minimal useage. Then at age 58 he gets down sized and after 18 months of cobra if he can afford it he can't get coverage because he has developed some chronic health problem or just can't afford the premiums .
Dwayne:
Thank you for your kind greetings. Spring is starting to peek out from under the snow of the last few weeks here on the Island. I'm anticipating a slightly early bear hunt than last year as last year I think we left it too late.
Regarding health care systems, I think that they can be improved for both the US and Canada. Nurses could be handling routine cases like stitches and flu bugs making more resources available for more serious cases. The US could use a more universal system. As DocRocket pointed out, a bit more user pay could be implemented in Canada to encourage people to not use the ER for non-emergency situations as well as to ease the strain on the public resources - as long as it can increase the number of practicing physicians rather than remove them from the public system. Both countries could learn from New Zealand on how to keep pharmaceutical costs down.
You make an excellent point on the vastness of the country compared to the population. Rural areas face a lot of challenges in terms of recruiting medical professionals, and that would be a problem no matter what kind of system was implemented. Canada could immediately improve it's system by creating a faster track system to verify skills and/or update training of immigrant doctors as well as to increase the funding for medical schools to train more doctors.
Hopefully Spring has started to show up in your neck of the woods as well.
I've had both. Three major surgeries in the states while I was playing hockey. I can't compare that to ours though. We had team doctors that got me in right away. All I know for sure is you won't find too many happy people around here about parts of our health care system. Saskatchewan has one MRI machine in the entire province.
THERE ARE NOW PRIVATE mri MACHINES IN bc AND aLBERTA so much for cap lock on mt puter
My first introduction to the Canadian health care system involved the husband of my wife's best friend who had a history of heart problems.
At age 38 he began suffering severe Angina. He called to make an appointment with a doctor and was told to be there in 2 weeks.
He was dead in a week.
THATS when you call an ambulance go into ER and you get immediate Care , you jump the line get hooked up to all the analizing gear and blood tests.
been there done that,, ambulance ride is cheaper than DEATH and does not last as long.
norm
DOC Rocket have you submitted your reviue to the house and Senate???????????????????????????????????????
There have been studies on how long people with serious diseases (cancer, heart disease etc.) live in the USA and Canada. The average survival times are longer in the US and this includes those without health insurance. The studies I looked at were done prior to Obamacare. The Canadian system is probably fine for routine issues but if you are really ill or have an uncommon problem it appears that the US system works better. This is likely because there is more medical infrastructure (MRI machines etc.) per capita in the US and because wait times are much shorter.
a year or two back, I had a severe sore throat, went to my local clinic, they sent me to the hospital emergency room, for mri, blood test, etc.
I figured I was going to pay a thousand or two.
bill was $50.
insurance plan was ER was is 100 % paid, after $50 deductible.