I guess the First Amendment is going to be used again as support against this kind of intrusive protocol. Well, two can play this game.............
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ask-patients-about-guns-court-rules.html
Personally, I think the court got it right.
If we want Doctors to not ask such questions, we can vote with our feet.
When it comes right down to it,the AMA is a lot more interested in our dallars than our guns.
I used to write none of your business on the form when asked. Then I found a Primary Care Provider which simply does not ask.
Simple enough just to tell the Doc GFY.
If the doctor can ask you about guns to "evaluate your medical situation" then it is equally valid for us to ask about how often he takes drug company kickbacks to "evaluate his medical situation."
"The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals found that the law does not trespass on patients' Second Amendment rights to own guns and noted a patient who doesn't want to be questioned about that can easily find another doctor."
And a queer can easily find another baker/florist.
If the doctor can ask you about guns to "evaluate your medical situation" then it is equally valid for us to ask about how often he takes drug company kickbacks to "evaluate his medical situation."
I hunt with my doctor, so kind of a moot point. But you can refuse to answer the question if asked, which is what I would do.
"The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals found that the law does not trespass on patients' Second Amendment rights to own guns and noted a patient who doesn't want to be questioned about that can easily find another doctor."
And a queer can easily find another baker/florist.
Or not fuggin answer!
Or Lie!
It's none of their business. I don't need a judge to tell what to answer truthfully, or what to not answer truthfully.
It's gonna get interesting when someone starts enforcing anything from these questions though.
I'd guess that any form of refusal to answer will be taken as a “yes” to owning guns. We need a better non-informational reply, or maybe a casual lie to match the illegitimate question.
Simple enough just to tell the Doc GFY.
Yes, the court has ruled that you can in fact tell the doctor to GFY.
A better tactic might be to ask the do,"why do you ask?" and then engage him in a debate for 20 minutes or so.
That would surely frost his ass, seeing as how time is money, and you just screwed up his throughput for the day.
"The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals found that the law does not trespass on patients' Second Amendment rights to own guns and noted a patient who doesn't want to be questioned about that can easily find another doctor."
And a queer can easily find another baker/florist.
EXACTLY!
It may be ruled that they can ask questions, but the more serious Constitutional question about this case is:
Are answers entered into ANY DATABASE?
Who can access that database, and what will they use the information for?
It may be ruled that they can ask questions, but the more serious Constitutional question about this case is:
Are answers entered into ANY DATABASE?
Who can access that database, and what will they use the information for?
That's actually the core issue behind the question. Obama pushed to allow doctors to report patients directly to the background check system to get them banned from buying guns, and also pushed for MediCare and MediCaid to have doctors asked about gun ownership and to report that to the feds.
If it's a doctor asking a patient who's in for serious depression (of the "Live isn't worth living any more" variety), that's fine.
But if it's government led and government reported - then CONGRESS needs to step up and stop it.
Florida should be able to rework it's law to get around this court decision, just remove the part about doctors can never ask and replace it with doctors can never report gun ownership to any government entity.
And are you sure your wife and young children will do that?
There is no legitimate medical reason to ask do you own guns.
If you say none of your damn business or I don't want to answer that the doctor will most likely make the notation that you probably do have guns in the house.
If I am ever asked the question I am simply going to reply no I do not own any guns.
Ask the Doc if he has a car and which kills more people, those or guns!
They can ask all they want...
And are you sure your wife and young children will do that?
Don't you talk with your wife? Ask/tell her to say "No" as well. If you have young children, you'll be there when the doctor is examining them. And you will answer that question, not them.
I built my Cardiologist a AR15 for a gift and he loved it
Ask the Doc if he has a car and which kills more people, those or guns!
Doctors kill more than either.
I built my Cardiologist a AR15 for a gift and he loved it
You need an eye doc?
Ask the Doc if he has a car and which kills more people, those or guns!
Doctors kill more than either.
Now thats what im going to say if ever asked.
I have never been asked in Wyoming or Arizona, probably because almost everyone is armed to the teeth, including the doctor. Waste of time to even ask.
it's already headed back to court. This is more 'making law from the bench', and won't stand.
"The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals found that the law does not trespass on patients' Second Amendment rights to own guns and noted a patient who doesn't want to be questioned about that can easily find another doctor."
And a queer can easily find another baker/florist.
and of course, just try to find another doctor. Ain't all that easy these days.
I usually answer, "Guns? In my house! Are you serious?"
The person asking usually apologizes.
They can ask all they want...
Last time I was asked I said "Sure, what do you want one for?"
He grinned and we proceeded to see what was wrong with me.
I usually answer, "Guns? In my house! Are you serious?"
The person asking usually apologizes.
Tracy, the problem that caused the law about doctors asking about guns, was not when you are at the docs, but when your kids are. Doctors, particularly the pediatricians, are rabidly anti gun, and parents got tired of the constant tirades, the constant questions to children, the constant prying into family business.
Kids trust the doctor, and tell them everything.
Haven't been asked in California and I have been to more doctors than you might believe.
My doc hits me up for some venison every hunting season.. He thinks the AMA is full of schitte..
It appears that the 5th Amendment doesn't apply....
What would keep someone from purchasing a firearm after the Dr. visit? Or lying? Any penalties for lying? Could he ask if there's a tall bridge close to home? Do you own golf clubs? Do you get pissed off at you wife/kids?
This is bullscheit!
Simple enough just to tell the Doc GFY.
Right? Why the fugg would anybody answer that?
"Of course not, Doc. Guns are dangerous and I've no need for one!"
Tell the Dr. "GFY" and that's noted as a "yes, he's got guns and he's hostile and irrational"
"Why is that question even on there since it has nothing to do with any medical condition?" Is what I said the last time I was asked that question. The nurse had no idea why and said so. The doctor did not pursue the question.
Tracy, the problem that caused the law about doctors asking about guns, was not when you are at the docs, but when your kids are. Doctors, particularly the pediatricians, are rabidly anti gun, and parents got tired of the constant tirades, the constant questions to children, the constant prying into family business.
Kids trust the doctor, and tell them everything.
What is a kid doing going into the Dr.'s office by himself? I am sure mine never did.
I usually answer, "Guns? In my house! Are you serious?"
The person asking usually apologizes.
Tracy, the problem that caused the law about doctors asking about guns, was not when you are at the docs, but when your kids are. Doctors, particularly the pediatricians, are rabidly anti gun, and parents got tired of the constant tirades, the constant questions to children, the constant prying into family business.
Kids trust the doctor, and tell them everything.
The Pedi bunch are by far the most liberal of all docs, IMO.
Not all, of course, but their professional association and their residency professors, by and large fit that profile.
DF
There are medical conditions where that may be a relevant question. (depression, for one)
Asking a question never hurts, and it is their right, under the first amendment. That does not put you under any obligation to answer, truthfully, or otherwise.
I had a doctor ask me about my gun ownership once. I told him just as soon as he disclosed how many battery operated sex toys his wife owned I would answer the gun question.
It pissed him off but ended any inquiries about me owning guns.
I will immediately end my visit and find a doc that won't ask such questions.
Tell him "NO!", then shoot him for asking.
If the doctor can ask you about guns to "evaluate your medical situation" then it is equally valid for us to ask about how often he takes drug company kickbacks to "evaluate his medical situation."
Some of that
[b][color:#3333FF]is reported and ready[/color][/b] for look-up
If the doctor can ask you about guns to "evaluate your medical situation" then it is equally valid for us to ask about how often he takes drug company kickbacks to "evaluate his medical situation."
Some of that
[b][color:#3333FF]is reported and ready[/color][/b] for look-up
I can see medical privacy (HIPPA) going out the back door when it comes to guns.
If they ask, don't tell. They need to bring back "Don't ask, don't tell", but that was for a different, more policitally correct scenario...
DF
This is nothing more than politicizing the doctors office.
Thet trying to make Guns in the home a "boogie man". Are they asking whether you have a swimming pool or hot tub? Children are 30-100x more likely to drown in a home pool than from a gun accident.
Do they ask about using cell phones while driving?
What about asking whether you have a properly secured car seat?
This is the Anti's way to try to do what they can't do otherwise.
I think if my doctor would ask if I had guns in the house, I'd ask him if he was going to write me a prescription for some ammo.
This is nothing more than politicizing the doctors office.
Thet trying to make Guns in the home a "boogie man". Are they asking whether you have a swimming pool or hot tub? Children are 30-100x more likely to drown in a home pool than from a gun accident.
Do they ask about using cell phones while driving?
What about asking whether you have a properly secured car seat?
This is the Anti's way to try to do what they can't do otherwise.
I think if my doctor would ask if I had guns in the house, I'd ask him if he was going to write me a prescription for some ammo.
"The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals found that the law does not trespass on patients' Second Amendment rights to own guns and noted a patient who doesn't want to be questioned about that can easily find another doctor."
And a queer can easily find another baker/florist.
and of course, just try to find another doctor. Ain't all that easy these days.
Nope. Short lists are made available to you on all but luxury insurance policies, and many of them are not taking new patients.
Tracy, the problem that caused the law about doctors asking about guns, was not when you are at the docs, but when your kids are. Doctors, particularly the pediatricians, are rabidly anti gun, and parents got tired of the constant tirades, the constant questions to children, the constant prying into family business.
Kids trust the doctor, and tell them everything.
What is a kid doing going into the Dr.'s office by himself? I am sure mine never did.
By law a minor must be accompanied by a parent or guardian. I cant see a 17 yo kid otherwise.
My answer would be, I HATE GUNS, AND PEOPLE WHO USE THEM....
It will be hard for me to lie because I hunted with my Primary care Doc for 25 years. That said I doubt he will ask.
Tracy, the problem that caused the law about doctors asking about guns, was not when you are at the docs, but when your kids are. Doctors, particularly the pediatricians, are rabidly anti gun, and parents got tired of the constant tirades, the constant questions to children, the constant prying into family business.
Kids trust the doctor, and tell them everything.
What is a kid doing going into the Dr.'s office by himself? I am sure mine never did.
By law a minor must be accompanied by a parent or guardian. I cant see a 17 yo kid otherwise.
sigh. I have been fighting this fight for years in Florida. Yes there is usually parent in the room. That did not stop the gestapo like questioning. Most, or at least, many parents went along, answering the doctor's questions, because, well, we trust our doctors, and we are programmed to believe in our doctors, and we want to get along with or doctors.
Now I know many of our rabid, deplorable crowd here don't take no chit from any doctors or anyone else, but there are millions and millions that are not like us, that do what authority figures tell us to do, and just spill out any info asked for.
Folks like us, here in Florida, got the legislature to try and curb this abuse of trust for political ends.
It's not over.
Simple enough just to tell the Doc GFY.
That's what I tell 'em..
They can ask - doesn't mean I MUST reply...
I saw a report a doctor I had been doing business with which had a lot of the "standard" questions on it, such as did I use illegal drugs, suffer from depression, have a drinking problem, etc. The answer to these on the sheet was "Patient denies this" Even though the doctor did not speak English as his first language, I took this to mean he was calling me a liar, as did my insurance agent - to whom the report was addressed.
For this and other reasons, I no longer deal with this doctor.
Didn't ask about guns, though.
Mike
Many years ago, Miss Manners, who always insisted on being polite, even in the face of rudeness, suggested answering rude questions with, "Why would you want to know that?"
Another good answer would be, "No, but I've got two on me right now."
"Why would you want to know that?"
Exactly. Most probably don't even know why they're asking.
It's the same answer I give to store clerks when they ask for my personal information.
When, exactly, did it become socially incorrect to answer "That is none of your business"?
(That said, my doctor knows I used to hunt coyotes on her grandad's ranch.)
The bigger the city the smaller the people.
I can't imagine any of the doctors at the clinic in the small logging town that I go to asking about your guns unless they wanted to borrow one.
One of the nurses did ask me about seat belt use one time. I simply told her it was none of her business. She laughed and said "that's what everyone says" but we have to ask if we don't want to loose some of our state funding.
The law in most cases has been that asking anything is OK.
Demanding an answer is NOT!
Being treated differently for a lack of an answer is unlawful. Asking is OK for just about anything.
In dealing with any tentacle of government you can invoke the 5th amendment right to not give statements that MAY incriminate you!
Doctors do not have greater legal powers then cops or prosecutors.
I have never been asked in Wyoming or Arizona, probably because almost everyone is armed to the teeth, including the doctor. Waste of time to even ask.
my guy works for the banner health system. They like long questionaires. The gun thing is one of the questions. Also have you been or are currently depressed.
That conversation with my doc went something like this:
Doc: Do you own firearms?
Me: Sure do.
Doc: Do you have a permit?
Me: Don't need a permit in the states where I'd be caught dead. Do you mean a Conceal Carry Permit?
Doc: Yes.
Me: Yes.
Doc: Are you carrying now?
Me: Right now, no, but I'm in my underwear.
Doc: Were you carrying when you came into the room?
Me: Yeah.
Doc: Did you pay attention to the sign out front forbidding firearms?
Me: I did. I also paid attention to the fact you don't have any means for protecting me while I'm on the premises. An armed guard would be nice.
Doc: (Gasp!)
Me: Do you want to see? (Reaching for my vest)
Doc: No. That's all right.
Me: Look, Doc. You've got me down as morbidly obese, right? Look at it this way: if we ever have an active shooter come by while I'm getting checked up, you and the rest of the office can use me as a shield while I shoot our way to the exit. There's a silver lining to every cloud.
Doc: Let's talk about your blood sugar.
I WAS ASKED WHEN I HAD MY YEARLY PHYSICAL. I SAID NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. HE SAID I'LL TAKE AS A YES.
I won't even admit to having a bit of the blues anymore. Always just so full of vim and vigor and high on good feelings I don't even need a doc.
An impertinent question is deserving of an inaccurate answer. Smile and say "Heavens, no!"
Does anyone know who's pushing this business?
I won't even admit to having a bit of the blues anymore. Always just so full of vim and vigor and high on good feelings I don't even need a doc.
I bet you tell him you have no problems getting an erection too.
The upper courts presently only exist to further the lieberal agenda. Nothing else matters to most of them.
Find another doctor. Any doctor stupid and arrogant enough to dare ask you such a question has concerns other than your health.
They have the right to ask--
we have the right to refuse to answer--
Use the Military answer about Nukes--
I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of guns in my home--
I haven't been asked yet. I was visiting the Dr today, thought it might come up and had decided I would just say that I was more of a knife type person.
It's just one more indicator of govt overreach. Hell, corporations are starting to do the same in a different way.
I call some of my mortgagors to ask a question and one of the first things out of the rep's mouth is "Is this a rental property?". I reply by telling them I own the property. If they insist on asking the question again, I tell them it's NOTFB and I will not be answering the question. Now, about the mortgage (or insurance).
Simple enough just to tell the Doc GFY.
As my better half works in the medical field, this intrusive line of questioning is being done solely for insurance compliance - which in turn reimburses clinics and hospitals.
But its genesis is the federal government, i.e. Obama and at the Dems to back door any information they can.
The question wasn't about collectin data on gun owners, according to my doc.
It was about O'Buckwheatcare mandates.
Won't last, thanks to president Trump, but docs is required to ask, and somehow answer, the question.
You don't answer, or smartass it, and you go down as "yes".
Reason why: if somehow, a firearm related injury occurred in your home, if O'Buckwheatcare had run its course and hit single payer or close to it, you would be assessed a penalty for havin the injury, due to your lifestyle choice, and hafta pay a higher deductible/percentage of the medical expenses.
BTW, they're doin the same thing right now, usin your BMI, blood pressure, blood sugar, etc.
It all goes into a database, to be used in an algorithm that would be used to increase your "contribution" to your own health care.
IOW, if you're "fat" and need a knee replacement, you were going to be assessed a higher percentage to pay than someone who was skinny.
And remember, the O'Buckwheatcare plan had IRS type collection. Instead of gettin sued, you was gonna get assessed leins on your real property, seized bank accounts, etc.
A hellhole we were never gonna get told about.
The question wasn't about collectin data on gun owners, according to my doc.
It was about O'Buckwheatcare mandates.
Won't last, thanks to president Trump, but docs is required to ask, and somehow answer, the question.
You don't answer, or smartass it, and you go down as "yes".
Reason why: if somehow, a firearm related injury occurred in your home, if O'Buckwheatcare had run its course and hit single payer or close to it, you would be assessed a penalty for havin the injury, due to your lifestyle choice, and hafta pay a higher deductible/percentage of the medical expenses.
BTW, they're doin the same thing right now, usin your BMI, blood pressure, blood sugar, etc.
It all goes into a database, to be used in an algorithm that would be used to increase your "contribution" to your own health care.
IOW, if you're "fat" and need a knee replacement, you were going to be assessed a higher percentage to pay than someone who was skinny.
And remember, the O'Buckwheatcare plan had IRS type collection. Instead of gettin sued, you was gonna get assessed leins on your real property, seized bank accounts, etc.
A hellhole we were never gonna get told about.
Well-stated, and spot on...