http://www.bostonherald.com/news/co...budget_blueprint_targets_the_do_nothings

Please say it ain't so --anybody who works for or has worked for the federal government deserves 76% more than the private sector and 38% more time off than the private sector .
What kind of barbarian doesn't understand that ....

President Trump needs to wait until the second term then start on cutting military retirements -no more retirements for the "desk soldiers" paper shufflers --soldier who worked in the Eye clinic etc. .
Make the vast majority of benefits go to the soldiers risking their lives in war away from their families for long periods of time . Not some fat legged overweight female bum riding out a retirement . Believe me there are tens of thousands of them .

Like most things there is some truth and some bias in these revelations but the true parts definitely need to be addressed. I would also point out it isn't just the federal govt. Same for the academic world. We sit wringing our hands about student debt but feed the beast of academic largesse

"Soldiers risking their lives in war"... Thats actually only about 15% of the current military, isn't it? Where and how do you draw the line on the non combat support staff and/or stateside personnel that makes up the vast majority of the military?

You don't. The Military is a separate animal. NO military pensions should be touched. They are already pro-rated for length of time served. I do not consider the Military to be public government.

The comparison sounds terrible, doesn't it. But it compares the fed group, who all have college degrees and/or skills and training, versus the overall civilian workers that include minimum wage and part timers. Apples and oranges.



Obviously you've never been in the military. Where would the combat troopie be if somebody back down the line didn't make sure ammo got to him? What about the guys who repair his humvee? Or the guy who tests his eye sight and, if need be, provides his glasses so he can see to shoot? Or gets him the batteries to make his flashlight work? And, for each and everyone of the REMFs, they still have to obey orders. Don't want to move to Mississippi? Tough, soldier, suck it up and pack you and your family.

Those with PhD's feel entitled to high pay and bennies, regardless of what field the degree is in. Sorry, but I just can't equate a PhD in Native American Studies with one in math or chemistry. Any degree that ends in Studies is only good for teaching to pass on their mostly worthless information. They contribute nothing to the economy or industry of this country.

Well put.

+1 Our military personnel are too poorly rewarded for their service as it stands.

Bureaucrats, on the other hand........

The fed group is the one place where someone with a sociology degree can get a six-figure salary. It is indeed apples and oranges.

That is easy, anyone who lived to the end of their enlistment is just shoved out on the street with nothing. Any one who is service connected disabled is just strapped down and their organs harvested until there is nothing worthwhile left. It will save the poor snowflakes billions in tax dollars, get somewhere around half the homeless off the streets, you know, those [bleep] who served and left part of their minds in some hell hole. While we are at it lets make a clean break and stop all SS. Put whatever is in SS into building a wall or something useful. Old people are worthless anyway.

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It could be easily worked out on where the line is drawn . Either you are going to be putting your life on the line or you aren't .

There's a huge difference in a Soldier who is suited up fighting in combat and some girl/guy working in the eye clinic stateside and the pay , retirement and future medical treatment should reflect that .

The military shouldn't be used as a place for a job and benefits -if that is what someone wants to do -they should be payed for what they do . Work in the mess hall get paid what a mess-hall worker deserves -do civilian kitchen workers get retirements/benefits ? Nope . Do people who work in an eye clinic get retirements/benefits ? Nope. I'm talking about a friend of mine Bob who went in the Air Force right out of high school coached by his ex military dad on how to go about his military career . Bob has been retired for several years now -he was only stationed in 3-4 places -retired out of Keesler AFB biloxi . Did next to nothing . Or Jay H. retired same story -bus driver on Keesler AFB -now sitting back like tens of thousands before them waiting on their govt/check .
Got a handnail --go to the V.A. and get it looked at --etc. . That's just a couple that I'll take time to type like I said there's tens of thousands of them .
Fat black girl a while back at a doughnut shop - I overheard her saying to her friend "I shouldn't be eating these" I'm on something? I don't remember what she called it but she was wearing the Eglin A.F.B. work-out clothes and was suppose to be losing weight -said she had 6 more years to go then she could retire . It's hard for me to tell how old black folks are but I don't she was 40 years old .

My friend Jeremy that was in our hunting club -blown to hell in irag -bad nerve damage doesn't walk/talk/see/hear very well at all and he deserves the same income and benefits as the do-nothings ? HELL NO HE DOESN'T !!

In my Government Jeremy would have income for life, free health care, shelter and my undying gratitude that he deserves.

My wife has a PhD in finance (on top of her MBA with a concentration in accounting.) One of her friends, who teaches at the same university, can't understand why she is paid only half as much as my wife. After all, isn't dance history as important as accounting?

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If "somebody back down the line " is in a very dangerous place -he would be treated just like the fighting soldier -if only slightly dangerous -give him 60% of the fighting soldiers deserved income .
Right on down the line --repair humvees-- what danger is there -busting your knuckles while wrenching on it ? Do humvee mechanics get retirements/benefits ? Nope

Lots of people get transferred with their jobs . I worked offshore years ago -roughneck/derrickman -> this is the last Well on this platform boys next hitch we'll be drilling offshore in Brownsville TX..
Believe or not it was a bit dangerous too --did I get a retirement --yes -but only if "" I "" paid for it myself .

You strengthened my point very well thanks.

Tell me what person in the military does not put their asses on the line. Even the ones in the eye clinic.

Oh, and by your standards no one in the US Navy faces any risk and therefore should just be [bleep] upon end of enlistment. After all all Navy jobs are just rocking chair jobs.

I had one of those damned Navy rocking chair jobs and an 100% permanent and full service connected disabled as rated by the VA. My time spent in a hard hat diving dress, sitting in a rocking chair with plush seats in some in the filthiest contaminated water anywhere got me here you you thing I should be one of those homeless guys begging on the streets for handouts because I wasn't getting shot at while under water. Thank you for the nice thoughts.

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Retired military own most of the waterfront property around here -just saying .
A friend/hunting buddies retired airforce brother gets $86,000 a year and has a govt job making $205,000 per year -he tells me "I'm friends with the guy with THE BIG CHECKBOOK" , followed by a huge laugh .
You're falling for the crying from military members who can't make ends make ends meet on $35,00 a year. MANY people make far less -but I'm sure they bellyache about it too -yes wages are stagnant .

I read a paper put out by the military back around 08-09 it stated that military incomes went up 80% between 2001 - 2008 .
I wondered which civilian jobs pay went up 80% in those 7 years -plus retirement and lifetime medical care . I'll guess would be -none-.

I know of 2 people who live near me who have been retired for 54ish and 51ish --how much is that worth ? So yes they didn't make great money back in the day in the military but actually they did --50+ years retirement -life long medical treatment is worth how much [+wife] ?? ?? Think about that .

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Scott ,
I've seen people retired from the military due to a bad back [faking]-one that I knew very well broke his ankle and became a retired vet . -he could run -play basketball -and did play all the time . Went to college of the taxpayer dime -now a lawyer working for the VA . He's a total piece of sch-itt whigger/gangsta , it's no wonder the VA is in pisspoor shape with the likes of him working there .

Or, better yet, maybe I should just be euthanized so you can heve a better life.

Hey ol mike - I am not gonna bother arguing, but I WOULD like to tell you to just frickin kiss my ass, you prick. If its so damn good, why didn't YOU DO it?

Damn, looks like 99% of the Coast Guard ain't getting a pension.

Question for ya "ol mike". Are you a veteran?

Yep, crossing the Columbia Bar a couple of times a day is nothing. Just sit in your rocking chair and knitting as the smooth water slides by. No risk involved.


I worked with a CG guy for a while. Great guy. Two purple hearts from his CG rocking chair job in Viet Nam.

Millions and millions of people work way more years and dont get a pension.

Any reason why? Only govt folks?

Politicians, No Pensions,

Public Employees, No Pensions, 401K only

Military is a different animal. The majority of soldiers aren't in long enough to earn much of a pension to begin with.

Those that do the 20-30 + years took far less compensation in the military than they would have made in the private sector. But we need their skill and talent in the service so to give them a pension is not only sensible its the right thing to do.

Military retirement is changing. Its a whole new system coming and it will be up to the member to ensure they have a retirement. Look up blended retirement system if you are curious. Its also good to note that only 17% of those on active duty serve for 20 years and become eligible for retirement.

My buddy is well compensated, being a nuclear engineer.

He said that virtually none of the other folks who graduated power school with him are still in the Navy.

Great bonuses and good pay...still a extremely high turnover.

I am not so sure that he would have been compensated at a higher rate in civilian life. Pay may have been better, but the job market was not exactly on fire for a good deal of the time he has been in the Navy.

Sure, the pay is high, if you can get a job.

Just what ARE you saying?

If The shcitt really hits the fan, many military vets can be called back in to fight.
Additionally, if it REALLY hits the fan, miliary vets CAN be counted on to do their patriotic duty at home.
That means saving even your butt.

Those that work in public government earn more than counterparts in the private sector and for fewer hours worked.

They must be placed on 401K systems at some point.

A politician should serve one term and move on and no pension for that term.

Military member do NOT earn what they could earn in private life. A pension is a very fair trade off as far as I am concerned.

That makes sense to me.

Sure, but whats the guarantee that they would find, keep, and retire from a job in the private sector?


All my friend has to do is get up on time, get his schit done and he is golden.

Admittedly, he is not a surface guy, and is not a boat painter.........

There are no guarantees anywhere I would guess.

You can't teach experience.

A group of people working on a design needed some expertise so the called in Tesla. He arrived, looked over their calculations on a chalkboard and after a few minutes finished the equation for them.

He then presented them a bill for $50,000.03.

The 3 cents was for the piece of chalk, the $50,000 was for what he knew.

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Scott ,
You're missing my point --my point is if someone goes in the military and does a "JOB" they don't deserve the same pay as a combat soldier like my buddy Jeremy is spoke of .

If you are in bad health or any other man who fought for this country I want you to be V-E-R-Y well taken care of ,if you did hard dangerous work you should be taken care of. The people who shuffled papper didn't fight in combat or do things that wore their bodies out shouldn't be in the VA line worried about a crick in their knee --that doctors office should be for YOU .

Steelhead ,

If you were doing dangerous work -being away from home etc. -you too should be paid for what you do .The guy in the Coast Guard sitting in an office shining a seat with his ass -does not deserve to be paid what like a person risking life and limb -that person has a "job" . And that "job" shouldn't come with retirement and benefits for life .

Before you fellas paint government service employment with a bucket of ripe manure you might step back and recognize that some branches, both military and civilian serve the people a great deal of benefit day in, day out. Indicting all public servants in a single breath makes you sound a bit liberal.

Scott;Tell me what person in the military does not put their asses on the line. Even the ones in the eye clinic.

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You can't be serious !

Absolutely not what it means at all. Public Employee's are very well compensated both in wages and tax payer funded pensions.

Military members earn far less in compensation. However long term experience is needed in the military so you want them to stay in. A pension for this is very fair.

Please don't start with the poor public employees because that angle is a load of crap.

If you say so. I'm guessing your buddy could have been in charge of all C4ISR and gun system design/testing/delivery in a multi-billion dollar contract for a new class of ship. All I did was shine seats in that job....

I'll ask again ol mike. Are you a veteran?

Headed to Cuba for Mojitos with some newfound Cuban friends. Nothing like getting paid to take a summer cruise.

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So you're saying you did a simple job -somewhat what Bob who worked in the eye clinic and you deserve a lifelong pension and benefits --ok then .

No, what I'm saying is that you are a f*cking idiot.

I'm sorry. This just sounds like class envy to me. Some folks have greater talents, higher skill levels, and deserve to be compensated for talents they have, and for performing jobs which few others could do.

Every one of these young people place their life on the line when they enlist, with no idea of where they will be called upon to serve.

If their pay was increased 80% in less than a decade as you claim......so what!

They are still rewarded far less than they should be for their service to this nation.

If a guy enlists at 17 and serves thirty years, he retires at 47 years. Good on him! He well deserves every penny of his retirement. I could not care less how much he makes from that retirement. And I certainly do not care what he earns in whatever 2'nd career he might choose to pursue.

I guess we could just forgo the whole idea of a volunteer military.

Draft every young person on their eighteenth birthday, make each one serve four years for room and board, then kick em to the curb to make their own way.

Are you ready to serve your four years for free?

So lets kill every vet so none of them can cheat the system. I'll make you a deal. You come to 14290 Marjorie Ln in Oregon City, OR and this cheating vet will might town on his 1911 if you have the balls to pull the trigger. My gun, my bullet, how much better deal can you ask for.

Only you would know "iron brain"

You obviously have no clue about the military or military life. In your example Bob signed on knowing he could be call at any time on any day to pick up a weapon and go the the front line. Everyone who took the military oath was putting his ass on the line no mater what job he happened to be assigned. My wife's uncle was a army company clerk in Korea and his enlistment ender. He was waiting to go home when he was handed a rifle and sent out at a place call Chosen. He is still there somewhere. But it does not count, he was just a company clerk.

My disability is not combat related. In fact I was in Washington DC when it happened. I suffer for it every day. I still served seven years active and seventeen years reserve.

I am waiting for you to come and pull the trigger so I will no longer be a burden to you pansy ass.

That's the 2nd most retarded thing I've ever seen. The 1st was someone sold you a computer.

ol_mike GFY

I earned my Army military retirement pay, even though my specialty by definition was a "non-combatant".

Soldiers (and Marines, Airmen, Sailors, and Coasties) do a hell of a lot more than get shot at, and the Services know a hell of a lot more than you ever will about what kind of personnel and specialties it takes to field and sustain the forces for National Defense and Power Projection.

By the way, ever heard of combat pay? hazardous duty pay? Combat zone tax exclusions? The personnel getting shot at already have some differential compensation available.

Yeah you'all are right , anybody who drives a bus around the base a few times them asks his commanding officer if he can go to the gym then get something to eat -then go to bed -that's what Jay told me he did and did it a lot.

OMGoodness it would be so funny to see awkward Bob try to handle a rifle , he would kill somebody -probably himself . He often laughed at what a joke his job was as did others .


No not a veteran , having a guy yell in my face wouldn't go over well with my personality .

Yeah I guess I'm jealous like idaho shooter said -never made much of myself -just built a bunch of houses and made 30 -40 --60 dollars at the closing . Semi-retired now although doing a little of this and that out of boredom -retiring is for the birds .

Scott F. you need some help -you're way off track.

Salute to all the fighting men in the Military all you paper shuffling seat shiners need to turn your check back in to the working people and get a job !!

Three cheers for my buddy Jeremy -he feels the same way I do ...

Well Mike, I think you're a frickin joke. Anytime you want to confront a seat shiner face to face, I'll take you up on it. You've never been in the military. EVERYBODY is a potential combatant. Not only that, a lot of us can run with the big dogs regarding the skills necessary to survive. You're a horse's ass.

ok Mike,you have to be one of lamest dicks that ever posted on any forum! You seem to think that because you were to stupid to make money, buy the waterfront property and enjoy retirement, others didn't earn what they have! What the hell held you back, drugs, criminal activity, or you just plain stupid? Or maybe your one of those who were afraid to take a step forward! It must really suck to, not be able too get past your own desperation! Hope you choke on your own hate, you dumbphuck!

Yeah Bob and Jay and many others sat around the base waiting for retirement -the fat black chick at the donut shop riding out six more years until retirement -wow what a warrior she was -I should have got her autograph .
While I did nothing more than build big new homes -semi-retired now -yep -a criminal -drughead -that's how I got my concealed carry and rifle suppressors .
You can't even read you dumbphuck .

I only knew one fat legged overweight female bum during my time in the service. That big ole' heifer could calibrate the microwave devices the fleet Sailors used to maintain their fire control radars to absolute precision.

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Good for her we need smart people in the military it's very high-tech .
What we don't need is people who aren't interested -don't put out and are waiting on their pension .
What we don't need is an over weight whatever color male or female saying " ohh --long breath -ohh I hate it but I got six more years before I can retire" . She has probably did as little as possible for a long time and is riding out one thing --PENSION .

Well,,,, I get that particular point...

You are the one wanting to take away the things we veterans have because we signed on the dotted line, then took an oath to put our lives on the line so that you could have your freedom to say we deserve nothing. I took that oath five times. I was just offering you the opportunity to put me down like an old dog so you would not have to pay. Sorry you are not man enough to take up my offer. But I kind of expected that from someone who was to lazy to serve.

See what you missed. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...r/11910807/gonew/1/In_memory,,,,,#UNREAD

But then you are the expert and know all about what it means to serve.

Old Mike,
You have no [bleep] clue. EVERY SINGLE PERSON who signed on the dotted line is worldwide deployable to whatever combat zone they decide to throw us into. Your friend the bus driver is an example. Ever driven a bus around a base that's being shelled? Many supposedly non combatants have been killed and wounded in these "wars" that we have been in for the last 3 decades. Ever been in a Humvee that hit an IED while you were going to your non combat job? I have and I have the scars to prove it. I earned every damned penny of my retirement.

[bleep] you!

Rob,
MSgt, USAF, Retired

These some of the seat shiners you're bitchin about?

Sept 11, 2001 Pentagon Casualties:

Spc. Craig Amundson, 28, Fort Belvoir, Va.
Melissa Rose Barnes, 27, Redlands, Calif.
(Retired) Master Sgt. Max Beilke, 69, Laurel, Md.
Kris Romeo Bishundat, 23, Waldorf, Md.
Carrie Blagburn, 48, Temple Hills, Md.
Lt. Col. Canfield D. Boone, 54, Clifton, Va.
Donna Bowen, 42, Waldorf, Md.
Allen Boyle, 30, Fredericksburg, Va.
Christopher Lee Burford, 23, Hubert, N.C.
Daniel Martin Caballero, 21, Houston, Texas
Sgt. 1st Class Jose Orlando Calderon-Olmedo, 44, Annandale, Va.
Angelene C. Carter, 51, Forrestville, Md.
Sharon Carver, 38, Waldorf, Md.
John J. Chada, 55, Manassas, Va.
Rosa Maria (Rosemary) Chapa, 64, Springfield, Va.
Julian Cooper, 39, Springdale, Md.
Lt. Cmdr. Eric Allen Cranford, 32, Drexel, N.C.
Ada M. Davis, 57, Camp Springs, Md.
Capt. Gerald Francis Deconto, 44, Sandwich, Mass.
Lt. Col. Jerry Don Dickerson, 41, Durant, Miss.
Johnnie Doctor, 32, Jacksonville, Fla.
Capt. Robert Edward Dolan, 43, Alexandria, Va.
Cmdr. William Howard Donovan, 37, Nunda, N.Y.
Cmdr. Patrick S. Dunn, 39, Springfield, Va.
Edward Thomas Earhart, 26, Salt Lick, Ky.
Lt. Cmdr. Robert Randolph Elseth, 37, Vestal, N.Y.
Jamie Lynn Fallon, 23, Woodbridge, Va.
Amelia V. Fields, 36, Dumfries, Va.
Gerald P. Fisher, 57, Potomac, Md.
Matthew Michael Flocco, 21, Newark, Del.
Sandra N. Foster, 41, Clinton, Md.
Capt. Lawrence Daniel Getzfred, 57, Elgin, Neb.
Cortz Ghee, 54, Reisterstown, Md.
Brenda C. Gibson, 59, Falls Church, Va.
Ron Golinski, 60, Columbia, Md.
Diane M. Hale-McKinzy, 38, Alexandria, Va.
Carolyn B. Halmon, 49, Washington, D.C.
Sheila Hein, 51, University Park, Md.
Ronald John Hemenway, 37, Shawnee, Kan.
Maj. Wallace Cole Hogan, 40, Fla.
Jimmie Ira Holley, 54, Lanham, Md.
Angela Houtz, 27, La Plata, Md.
Brady K. Howell, 26, Arlington, Va.
Peggie Hurt, 36, Crewe, Va.
Lt. Col. Stephen Neil Hyland, 45, Burke, Va.
Robert J. Hymel, 55, Woodbridge, Va.
Sgt. Maj. Lacey B. Ivory, 43, Woodbridge, Va.
Lt. Col. Dennis M. Johnson, 48, Port Edwards, Wis.
Judith Jones, 53, Woodbridge, Va.
Brenda Kegler, 49, Washington, D.C.
Lt. Michael Scott Lamana, 31, Baton Rouge, La.
David W. Laychak, 40, Manassas, Va.
Samantha Lightbourn-Allen, 36, Hillside, Md.
Maj. Steve Long, 39, Ga.
James Lynch, 55, Manassas, Va.
Terence M. Lynch, 49, Alexandria, Va.
Nehamon Lyons, 30, Mobile, Ala.
Shelley A. Marshall, 37, Marbury, Md.
Teresa Martin, 45, Stafford, Va.
Ada L. Mason, 50, Springfield, Va.
Lt. Col. Dean E. Mattson, 57, Calif.
Lt. Gen. Timothy J. Maude, 53, Fort Myer, Va.
Robert J. Maxwell, 53, Manassas, Va.
Molly McKenzie, 38, Dale City, Va.
Patricia E. (Patti) Mickley, 41, Springfield, Va.
Maj. Ronald D. Milam, 33, Washington, D.C.
Gerard (Jerry) P. Moran, 39, Upper Marlboro, Md.
Odessa V. Morris, 54, Upper Marlboro, Md.
Brian Anthony Moss, 34, Sperry, Okla.
Ted Moy, 48, Silver Spring, Md.
Lt. Cmdr. Patrick Jude Murphy, 38, Flossmoor, Ill.
Khang Nguyen, 41, Fairfax, Va.
Michael Allen Noeth, 30, New York, N.Y.
Diana Borrero de Padro, 55, Woodbridge, Va.
Spc. Chin Sun Pak, 25, Lawton, Okla.
Lt. Jonas Martin Panik, 26, Mingoville, Pa.
Maj. Clifford L. Patterson, 33, Alexandria, Va.
Lt. J.G. Darin Howard Pontell, 26, Columbia, Md.
Scott Powell, 35, Silver Spring, Md.
(Retired) Capt. Jack Punches, 51, Clifton, Va.
Joseph John Pycior, 39, Carlstadt, N.J.
Deborah Ramsaur, 45, Annandale, Va.
Rhonda Rasmussen, 44, Woodbridge, Va.
Marsha Dianah Ratchford, 34, Prichard, Ala.
Martha Reszke, 36, Stafford, Va.
Cecelia E. Richard, 41, Fort Washington, Md.
Edward V. Rowenhorst, 32, Lake Ridge, Va.
Judy Rowlett, 44, Woodbridge, Va.
Robert E. Russell, 52, Oxon Hill, Md.
William R. Ruth, 57, Mount Airy, Md.
Charles E. Sabin, 54, Burke, Va.
Marjorie C. Salamone, 53, Springfield, Va.
Lt. Col. David M. Scales, 44, Cleveland, Ohio
Cmdr. Robert Allan Schlegel, 38, Alexandria, Va.
Janice Scott, 46, Springfield, Va.
Michael L. Selves, 53, Fairfax, Va.
Marian Serva, 47, Stafford, Va.
Cmdr. Dan Frederic Shanower, 40, Naperville, Ill.
Antoinette Sherman, 35, Forest Heights, Md.
Don Simmons, 58, Dumfries, Va.
Cheryle D. Sincock, 53, Dale City, Va.
Gregg Harold Smallwood, 44, Overland Park, Kan.
(Retired) Lt. Col. Gary F. Smith, 55, Alexandria, Va.
Patricia J. Statz, 41, Takoma Park, Md.
Edna L. Stephens, 53, Washington, D.C.
Sgt. Maj. Larry Strickland, 52, Woodbridge, Va.
Maj. Kip P. Taylor, 38, McLean, Va.
Sandra C. Taylor, 50, Alexandria, Va.
Karl W. Teepe, 57, Centreville, Va.
Sgt. Tamara Thurman, 25, Brewton, Ala.
Lt. Cmdr. Otis Vincent Tolbert, 38, Lemoore, Calif.
Willie Q. Troy, 51, Aberdeen, Md.
Lt. Cmdr. Ronald James Vauk, 37, Nampa, Idaho
Lt. Col. Karen Wagner, 40, Houston, Texas
Meta L. Waller, 60, Alexandria, Va.
Staff Sgt. Maudlyn A. White, 38, St. Croix, Virgin Islands
Sandra L. White, 44, Dumfries, Va.
Ernest M. Willcher, 62, North Potomac, Md.
Lt. Cmdr. David Lucian Williams, 32, Newport, Ore.
Maj. Dwayne Williams, 40, Jacksonville, Ala.
Marvin R. Woods, 57, Great Mills, Md.
Kevin Wayne Yokum, 27, Lake Charles, La.
Donald McArthur Young, 41, Roanoke, Va.
Lisa L. Young, 36, Germantown, Md.
Edmond Young, 22, Owings, Md.

I served a total of 24 years and have no PENSION. But I must be wrong as you know more about it than I do.

BTW, how many hours have you spent working in freezing cold up to your chest in water with a hundred feet of water above you and in pitch black? How many hours have you waited in that same freezing cold in that same pitch black at decompression stops? How much do you know about the effects of prolonged hypothermia every day for months at a time?

You say you don't have the personality to learn discipline. That isn't something to brag about. But you are right, those who did learn about discipline deserve to be screwed out of everything even though you still have your rights because of those who did.

Nothing more fun than seeing a hack trolling for more gunsmithing help.

I'm glad a real smith volunteered to do the BobinNH commemorative rifle.

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OK

To be clear -it's sometimes hard to get across exactly what you want to say on the interwebs.

Combats soldiers deserve the worlds best pay and treatment -ok.

Smart people like DigitalDan are a great value to the military -ok .

Badasses like Jorge -who risk their lives on bombing runs and possibly being a hated prisoner of war deserve a top of the line retirement and benefits -ok .

Soldiers who fought in combat were mentally and physically hurt deserve "first in line " -"all the time" over others .-ok

I guess benchman scott & scott and a few others put themselves in the do nothing catagory .

What I'm saying again is there doesn't need to be people doing a job in a meess hall -driving a bus around the base -standing around in an eye clinic -doughnut girl doing whatever -etc. etc. that should be subbed out or something .
You can say 'when they signed on they could be sent into combat' yeah "could" but weren't they rode out a pension -many of my motorcycle riding military buddies told me they were staying in for the pension .

A friend of mine Harley has 4 lads in his neighborhood [mid 20's now] -two are brothers -all long time friends . They went to talk to a recruiter and such but didn't want to be in the army/navy/marines -said they didn't want to fight in a war -they wanted a "job" in the AirForce -only one of them had a good enough test score and all were 25-40 pounds overweight . They would come by Harleys house and talk about how they would work at losing weight if they would let them in the AF and they wanted to be stationed locally here like Hurlburt or Eglin .
That mentality was the same as Bobs -who again --Bob was coached on how to have a career in the AF and get a retirement . When I would kid Bob about it he would point out how he wasn't the only one and laugh about it. I say Bob doesn't deserve a lifelong retirement and healthcare -that money could go to a soldier/pilot/person doing dangerous stuff who really needs and deserves it . OK

You don't like what I say you can kiss my country ass ..

So, I guess you'll be volunteering to be a cook at an FOB in Afghanistan? Bus driver in Baghdad? We'll pay you minimum wage and even provide you a plane ticket you aragant prick. Maybe your brother who hasn't paid income taxes since the 80s is interested? I'm sure they can find use for you building stuff with your construction background. I'll bet you could get $10 an hour. Keep your head down. In your case, I guess you'd have to pull it out of your ass first.

GFY. Seriously.

Bob nor jay nor rick went to any war zone ..
Whoever did deserves a retirement . real simple !

AMEN

I never went to a war zone. I floated around the GOA in 35 foot seas enjoying my Alaskan cruise.

Yup that's not a "standing around in the eye clinic" job is it.

Scott! I didn't know you were from San Francisco! Which cafe' do you hang out in? I hear those statements all the time. Of course, people lower their voices if they know I am near.

So, in your mind, an E1, straight out of boot camp with zero experience in doing whatever his or her job is, gets deployed and for this deserves a retirement, while the senior NCO or Warrant Officer or commissioned officer with 20+ years of experience doesn't get deployed and ends up staying stateside, keeping things operating here, deserves nothing?

You really believe half the homeless are former military?

Harry M for (Next) President. You have my vote.

Yup, and you haven't a clue about logistics.


Is there anyone near your right now that has actually had a job that required some intelligence? If so, put them on the computer so we can further discuss.

I wonder why the generals didn't think of that?

Yes but it wasn't "dangerous".

I'd rephrase that to "as dangerous".

Several years ago I read a report that said over 50% were veterans who had service related mental problems and were off their meds. I have no idea if that is still a good figure but I would bet it is close.

There are reported to be between 22 and 35 veteran suicides a day. I find that heart breaking.

Looks like I was wrong about the numbers today. It seems to be around 25%.

Homeless Veterans

Published by the National Coalition for the Homeless, September 2009

This fact sheet examines homelessness among U.S. veterans. A list of resources for further study is also provided.

BACKGROUND

Far too many veterans are homeless in America—between 130,000 and 200,000 on any given night—representing between one fourth and one-fifth of all homeless people. Three times that many veterans are struggling with excessive rent burdens and thus at increased risk of homelessness.
Further, there is concern about the future. Women veterans and those with disabilities including post traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury are more likely to become homeless, and a higher percentage of veterans returning from the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq have these characteristics.

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs estimates that 131,000 veterans are homeless on any given night [1]. And approximately twice that many experience homelessness over the course of a year. Conservatively, one out of every three homeless men who is sleeping in a doorway, alley or box in our cities and rural communities has put on a uniform and served this country.

Approximately 40% of homeless men are veterans, although veterans comprise only 34% of the general adult male population. The National Coalition for Homeless Veterans estimates that on any given night, 200,000 veterans are homeless, and 400,000 veterans will experience homelessness during the course of a year (National Coalition for Homeless Veterans, 2006). 97% of those homeless veterans will be male (Department of Veterans Affairs, 2008).

DEMOGRAPHICS

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) says the nation's homeless veterans are mostly males (four percent are females). The vast majority is single, most come from poor, disadvantaged communities, 45 percent suffer from mental illness, and half have substance abuse problems. America’s homeless veterans have served in World War II, Korean War, Cold War, Vietnam War, Grenada, Panama, Lebanon, Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan), Operation Iraqi Freedom, or the military’s anti-drug cultivation efforts in South America. 47 per cent of homeless veterans served during the Vietnam Era. More than 67 per cent served our country for at least three years and 33 per cent were stationed in a war zone.

Here are some statistics concerning the veterans homeless [2]:

23% of homeless population are veterans
33% of male homeless population are veterans
47% Vietnam Era
17% post-Vietnam
15% pre-Vietnam
67% served three or more years
33% stationed in war zone
25% have used VA Homeless Services
85% completed high school/GED, compared to 56% of non-veterans
89% received Honorable Discharge
79% reside in central cities
16% reside in suburban areas
5% reside in rural areas
76% experience alcohol, drug, or mental health problems
46% white males compared to 34% non-veterans
46% age 45 or older compared to 20% non-veterans

Female homeless veterans represent an estimated 3% of homeless veterans. They are more likely than male homeless veterans to be married and to suffer serious psychiatric illness, but less likely to be employed and to suffer from addiction disorders. Comparisons of homeless female veterans and other homeless women have found no differences in rates of mental illness or addictions.
http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/veterans.html

Damned auto correct!

As well they should!

Seems to me that would mean kissing just about anywhere on you.

https://www.health.mil/News/Articles/2016/09/13/Medical-Response-to-9-11-Paul-K-Carlton-Jr

Good thing this Dr. had a desk job that day.

This whole thread is hilarious.

If I was king for a day, I'd cut back on career military positions, pay soldiers much better for the time they are in, and send a whole schit ton of GS 12's packing and new GS employees would go straight 401k.

I doubt I'll get elected. Lol.

Gotcha, just a freeloading leach letting others risk their lives to protect him and his way of life so he can bad mouth them. Well you can kiss my rosy red *ss and GFY!


another one hits "ignore"....

I did not serve in the military. In my younger days I worked on a big offshore commercial fishing trawler which was probably the most dangerous job I've had. For 2 years an offshore drilling rig roughneck and derrick man, also very dangerous. I was 4 and 1/2 years a firefighter and 30 years a law enforcement officer (state and federal game warden). Believe it or not a game warden has a very dangerous job if he does his job properly. I retired with 100% of my pay and benefits with spousal survival rights. When I look at what truck drivers,oil field workers, log cutters, building contractors, farmers, etc. get in retirement and benefits I know I do not deserve what I get if I compare myself to them. They basically get social security and an old age of scraping by and pain from their bad backs and knees after lives of exertion and being the people who really pay this country's way. While I do admire those who honorably serve in the military and law enforcement I can understand some others who do dangerous and demanding work feeling shorted. And before anyone suggests it, I am not giving up my pension.

Yup. I was a seat shiner. Never went anyplace in combat, worked 20 years in SE DC. I was a singer in the Navy Band. That said, I out shot and scored higher in PT than most. My last year PT, I did more pushups than anybody in the Navy. Not actually out of shape.... YOU don't get to decide what's important to the military. Apparently, the people who DO get to decide, have somehow decided the people they pay, are worth it. When I joined, I already had the job I had auditioned for, but was told that that could be pre-empted at any time, should the need arise. How about if you're out there minding your own business, and one day, somebody shows up and tells you to pack up - you're on your way to where ever they choose to send you? Bet that was not an issue. Didn't happen to me, but could have. I'd sure like to get some of that cheap waterfront property. My pension is 19,000.00 a year. Thanks, by the way....

Sounds like ol mike got fired from Burger King. You're a fu kin clown.

ol mike, who never served because he is too delicate to tolerate yelling, thinks he is qualified to judge those that chose to serve. His intellect and reasoning, as displayed in this thread indicates he is qualified only make Harry M look smart.


mike r

My sentiments too....except for the GFY, which I'll substitute with God help this pathetic fool, because he's gonna suffer the karma of his thinking some day.

No way in hell would I encourage my kids to join the military today.

Things might change in a few years of Trump....but I doubt it.

Thank you for your service!!

"No not a veteran , having a guy yell in my face wouldn't go over well with my personality ."

Most douche bags are like that....

Every employer I've ever worked for or even heard of that pays employees either hourly or salary wages with benefit packages always makes it a point to include their cost for both added together when stating their cost of labor in dollars per employee.

To me this clearly implies that although benefit packages may be directly paid for by and through an employer, the money used to pay for them is actually the employee's as part of their total earnings package.

+1

Here's a little music to phouc with what's left of whatever mind you had to start with, dipchit......

Won't hit you in the guts,....ya' got none.

Would love to witness this

Before the day was over, you'd be begging that guy to yell in your face some more and be telling him just how much you loved it!

Something like, "I like it, I love it, I want more of it!"

Yeah, you got it. Another seat polisher here but just as all others, an Infantry man first!

"First to Fight"

"Victory"