This is from a Glock failure. I'm not going into what caused the failure. Here's the thing, look at the gun.

Had that frame been steel might in not have come apart like that?

Now that's just gotta hurt!

did any rounds in the magazine go off? Just curious if the damage was all from the gun coming apart, or if other rounds in the mag were involved as well?

bet it was a .40

There are no specifics on the occurrence. Double charge, lead bullets, nothing.

It does look like a G19 or G23. Since both barrels have the same external dimensions and the chamber and bore of a 40 is so much bigger for the same pressure levels I bet you are right.

Yeah cause rifles and revolvers never blow up like that.. Insert a [bleep] of sarcasm

My first thought also.

Scary pic!

I reload for 3 Glocks, all with semi-supported chambers, don't run any lead thru em, mainly plated stuff. All loads get chrono'ed, when I do that I load 1 round and remove the mag, my thinking is a kaboom will vent somewhat thru the magwell.

Can't fault the pistol until you know the facts.

Of course they do. The question was in this case since it looks like a case head separation with no failure of the barrel itself, would a steel frame have likely mitigated the damage to a lower level?

This. And I bet the guy uses lead reloads in it.

My vote is split...

I'm thinking an initial squib load in a double-tap sequence.

Or...

An out-of-battery discharge.

Glocks tend to be susceptible to that.

Or the resultant combination of both.

Either way I suspect that any metal frame would have held together A LOT better and blown out the mag mitigating the damage to the operator muchly.

Plastic mostly sucks in any stress test, carbon fiber being an exception.

Still, that's about the worst Kaboom I've seen...



Pardon me while I give my Lightweight Commander some extra love...

Yep. Usually, Glock kabooms cut the hands a little, and cause some swelling. They don't typically take off thumbs and fingers like that one did. This fact, combined with the extreme rarity of Glock kabooms (about the same risk as golfing on a cloudy day), even with a .40 S&W chambered Glock, causes me little if any concern about shooting my 9mm Glock 17.

Run out and sell all your glocks. You see something stupid like this about once a week. Why aren't you going to share what caused the pistol to blow up?

Because the cause isn't given.

http://www.wideopenspaces.com/sunda...will-leave-shock-warning-graphic-images/

I seem to also recall seeing pictures of Elmer Keith 44 Special revolvers with the top strap & the top half of the cylinder blown off.

I saw a Glock .40 go kaboom with factory ammo a number of years ago during a "class". It was the instructors' gun whilst he was demonstrating strong hand when it cut lose.

The left side of the slide blew out around the chamber area but the frame appeared to be intact(full mag as well). If he had been holding the gun with both hands he may have had a f'ed up left thumb but I doubt it would have ended up like the hand in the OP.

On the other side I pulled the trigger on double charged cartridges in my 1911 twice in a row, when I first started reloading.

The first round sounded weird and had a different recoil pulse to it, but being young and dumb I pressed again. This time similar recoil except the gun unloaded itself through the bottom of the magazine as the over pressure popped the mag. bottom plate off and sent the rest of the ammo into the dirt, and spraying me with a small bit of crud in the face but no metal. The case has a nice crescent shaped cutout in the head area where the pressure blew it out( where there's no support in the chamber). I keep it on my reloading bench for a reminder. I also spent that afternoon pulling 200 gr semi wadcutters out of 500+ rds of the .45 ACP I had reloaded, to clear up anymore double charges that may have been left from my transgressions.

The 1911 is fine and still shoots to this day with no ill effects. YMMV.

That boy will be shooting left handed from here on out.

I hate plastic guns.

That is ugly! Think I will stick with my big heavy steel 1911.

In answer to your original question. I believe the outcome would have been a lot different if it were a steel frame and the shooter would be upset but not maimed for life.

Could have been a double charge of Unique powder too, hope the guy recovers to full health.

With the index finger shredded to a nub and the thumb completely gone his right hand is essentially useless. He will heal but not recover.

I think his new name will be Three Finger Jack. It will be life changing, I do feel sorry for the poor guy.

I'm not up on Glocks but stupid question...why would a .40 S&W be more likely to come apart?

They're loaded very hot and put in 9mm size frames.

They're sorta pushing the envelope with that combo.



Travis

Yeah, I never load max on the 40 for my Shield or my XD's. I'm loading 5.8 grains CFE Pistol with a 180 grain bullet which should be 30,000 ball park. Sammi on a 40 is 35,000 so I have a comfortable margin. Max load on the CFE pistol is 6 grains and minimum is 5.4 grains.

It's a bit under factory loads, not much. My carry load is a Federal 180 grain HST. It functions and is accurate. No need to push the envelope in this.

I load 'em to the gills.



Dave

Also the main reason I do NOT own a .40...

Was that a factory frame or after market? Could be a 10mm.

Looks like a Gen 1 or Gen 2 because of the absence of an accessory rail.

All rough calculations:

At 35,000 psi SAMMI max the total load on the chamber walls of a 9mm would be 29,416 pounds and the 40 S+W 36,750 pounds.

That in a barrel blank that is bored out some 34% larger for the 40 than it is for the 9mm and with the Glock the external dimensions of that barrel are the same.


The margins are much tighter with the 40 than they are with the 9mm.

Hvae not had issues with the wifes 20 yet...

Not sure how lead could be an issue at all.

I converted my Glock 20 to .40 S&W. Works great, and has strength more appropriate for the round. I don't own any other gun in .40 S&W.

We use 20s as is. No need to drop down to 40s.

Glock states that lead rounds violate the warranty. No rifling grooves in Glocks, so any lead buildup increases barrel pressure beyond design limits.

I retain my 10mm barrel, of course. Never know if a lion or tiger will escape from the zoo.

So what is the nominal PSI for a 357 SiG then?

40,000. Of course no factory ammo is going to come even close to that. Probably staying 2-3,000 below that.

Well, I'm a polymer pistol user and will continue to be one. I am a Glock owner and will continue to be one. However, instead of getting my underwear all in a bunch because somebody showed a picture of a brand of pistol I like, I will answer the intent of the thread. No, in my opinion, had that frame been constructed of quality steel in a quality manner like most steel pistols, the frame probably would not have come apart like that. Physics (and metalurgy) tells me that.

I don't get all defensive about any of my firearms unless someone is trying to take them away. By the way, even though I agree that steel "probably" would not have suffered like the polymer, I will continue to use polymer pistols.

OR, depending on pressures, steel could have come apart in a more catastrophic way, much like bursting PVC vs Sch 40 Steel pipe...

That was my thought, too.

I don't either and I use an XD compact, and XD tactical and a S+W Shield in 40 cal. But, as I said, I see no reason to run these full throttle with my reloads.

Full throttle is both the 45 colt and the 44 mag with 300 grain cast flat nose bullets. Something I'm going to kill something with.

Want full throttle shoot the 40 as it was meant to be before all the catification. 10mm.

Just like any barrel, you have to watch and take care of the barrel, to make sure its not fouling or building carbon up, lead or not.

Warranty. Reloads void almost any warranty I've ever seen.

If you build up lead and ignore it, thats your fault and has nothing to do with the maker...

Apparently, though, because there is no rifling in a Glock barrel, even the slightest layer of lead buildup will push pressures too high. With rifling, the lead buildup is pushed into the grooves, and doesn't cause increased pressures till the grooves are overstuffed with lead.

Absolutely 100% fact. I even thought about that; but, in response to his original post, yes, I thought if steel, it MIGHT not have come apart like that. Either way, I will not get defensive about my polymer pistols because of a statement like his and, once again, do agree with your point rost495 and did, even before my post of agreement that it might not have.

Don't believe I made a statement.

Any time you have a kaboom bad things are likely to happen, regardless of the exact handgun model. I had an almost kaboom early in my action shooting days with a Glock 34 in 9mm during a match. I was using some commercially reloaded ammunition that had previously worked well. The problem round had a lot more recoil than usual and locked up the gun. It hurt my hand a bit but there was no real injury. Probably over charged but not double charged. Nowadays I generally only shoot my own hand loads or occasionally high quality factory ammo.

That said, I've shot many thousands of rounds though Glocks, including 9mm, .40 and .45, and never had another problem. I am a pretty careful reloader, but once in while my progressive press will not drop any powder in a round on the powder drop step. I look carefully at each round before I seat the bullet and so far have always caught the problem but I do still worry a bit about the possibility of firing a squib round followed by a tap/rack and then another round during a match. That would definitely cause a kaboom and might cause injury.

I think a kaboom with any handgun is pretty serious and I'm not sure that polymer guns are any worse than alloy or even steel. Best to avoid the kaboom in the first place.

LEading is usually dependent on MV and hardness. Hence not all barrels will lead. Although our 10mm due to speed are powder coated, cleaner to mess with etc...

I"m not convinced you can't get carbon built up like in a rifle barrel also.

Bottom line, its not just a lead bullet, but the fact that IF lead was used, the owner was not knowledgeable enough to understand how to use it and its possible dangers.

Same number of .40's I own, not looking to add one to the safe, either.

I jump from 9mm to 45 ACP.

DF

Going to depend on the gun. I was sitting in the office at the club year before last and heard an odd sound out on the range I looked and saw one of our members holding his hand, I ran out to him and his colt 1911 was laying on the bench and his mag was laying on the floor in pieces.

He had double charged a cartridge with Titegroup, It ruined the mag and the nice carbon fiber grips he had on it, the gun itself was just fine. All total it cost him about $150.00 for that double charge, he got lucky, lesson learned.

I've owned a couple plastic guns I Don't like them, some do and thats fine.

Anyone really know what happened? My "guess" is either a high primer or stuck firing pin that set off a cartridge before it was chambered, then set off some in the mag, or a fail to extract and jammed another case into the barrel.

I do not shoot a lot of pistols

So, why does the barrel still look intact? The magazine would have let go before the frame shredded that bad. The hand wound just doesn't fit the damage from the gun. Just my opinion.

That was my first thought, are you sure the 2 photos belong together? But then who would question the net... LOL

Kinda looks like it blew the bottom of the chamber out maybe.

Like this:



Then again a 35,000 psi round firing out of battery can't be a good thing.

Armednfree: The first thing a normal person (gun-nut!) would "go into" is exactly what you dismiss!
"What caused this failure"?
And why on earth won't YOU "go into it"?
Do you have an agenda against Glocks?
I have been using Glocks professionally and personally for in excess of 25 years now and for many of those years fired factory full house loads alongside 19 other "qualifiers" twice every year and fired thousands of other rounds through several Glocks I was issued and own and to date I have NEVER seen even a single instance like you have put forth!
I wonder why?
I for one would like you to "go into EXACTLY what caused this failure" (alleged incident)!
Sheesh.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I don't know; but, I'm guessing he won't go into the cause because, as he stated in his second post in this thread "no specifics were provided". Additionally,if you look at the link provided later in this thread, they don't provide a definitive reason. He doesn't know. Maybe he should have or could have (would of or could of for the morons) worded it differently. That's just my speculation after having followed the link provided. I also speculate, based on his post, the cause wasn't what he desired to discuss; rather, he wished to discuss the "steel vs. polymer" issue. I'm not trying to defend the OP, he could be a total a-hole for all I know and completely deserving of the derision. However, this is all just my take on having read it and watching others take it beyond his simple question. If he's another Big Stick, go get him guys.

I've blown the bottom out of 1911's and I've seen G19's that had experienced the same.

The cause in both cases were overloaded cartridges.

Both hands hurt and both guns were fine. But whatever did that to that in the OP Glock, was a fugkin' grenade.

I wouldn't want it in my hand. Steel, or otherwise.




Clark

Ditto on both counts.

Let me try to be more clear.

First off I own a Glock 26. The only reason I own a Glock 26 is that I got a great deal on it. Generally I prefer XD's, but acknowledge that over all there isn't really much difference. IMHO if you put a Glock, and XD and an M+P in a bucket you have three of just about the same thing in that bucket.

My duty carry is a Glock 19, used to be a Glock 23.

As an analogy, a great deal of development in the military bolt action rifle was focused on how well it handles a blown primer or separated head. Some, like a Mauser 98, do it very well while others, Like a MAS 36 are terrible at it.

So lets not focus on it being a Glock but on polymer frames in general. The question becomes, With a polymer frame do you loose a measure of protection in a catastrophic failure that a steel frame might provide?

Yep an overload for sure.

I load 6.0 grains of bullseye in my Colt 45 acp.with 200 grain semi-wadcutters.
In my Browning shooting both 160 and 180 grain sized and lubed cast bullets have had no problem.

If it was told i bet it was reloaded on a progressive press.
I have seen some before from friends and am sure there will be more.

It happens with hand cannons as well.

I recall way back in the day people hotrodding 38 supers for IPSC. I saw several fail in the case head. There didn't seem to be much damage to the gun itself, nor to the shooter. Had those 1911 frames been polymer what might have happened?

Yes

Mike

IF you weren't such a twit, and paid attention to such things, you'd know that it does happen, and fairly often, and it's usually a .40.

I know a guy who's personally had at least four failures with factory .40 ammo, although not all of those were in Glocks (two Glocks, a Tanfoglio Witness, and a 1911, which lost a magazine and it's grips, but was otherwise okay). I don't recall exactly what happened with the Witness, but he lost the magazine and grips, again, with some other things wrong with the barrel and slide). The Glocks had "catastrophic events" although not as bad as the OP's pics, and were totalled. This was with factory Fiocchi ammo, which he purchased by the case, all at the same shop he got the various guns from. (the dealer was a distributor for Fiocchi ammo, too).
The dealer was/is a large police supply distributor for this area, and got his guns replaced without cost to the shooter, as he was/is a regular customer and spent a LOT of money there.

IF you didn't have your head firmly implanted someplace smelly, you'd have heard of these incidents.

Thank You !!

It amazes me the lack of reading comprehension here. That and the thought that everyone is looking to bash something.

The question is, in a like circumstance, would a steel frame afford a greater level of protection? Do we loose that protection with a polymer frame?

Clearly the answer is "Yes".


The question was not why it *ucking happened or who's *ucking fault it is, that was not the *ucking question.

yes a steel frame may have provided more protection, or shrapnel

Here's a question to help answer the OP's question. Has anyone seen a semiautomatic handgun with an exploded frame like the picture in the OP?

I hate plastic guns too. The only .40 I have is an S&W 4006.

45 autos run at 35000?


if the 40 is so bad what about 9mm plus P?

ever look at the same specs on that?

They do when you do something like drop a double charge of 231 in them.

As far as 9mm and 40, working in the same barrel blank, it's not psi that counts but total load on the chamber walls. The 40 is 22% larger than the 9mm in diameter and therefor 22% less steel.

Notice the difference between the side wall of the 9mm and the 40 chambers.

[img:center]https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP....amp;pid=15.1&P=0&w=365&h=135[/img]

Now granted that is only a factor in an overload or something that raises pressures beyond a limit. It's just that limit is less with the 40 than the 9mm.

Now I've heard that Gen 1 Glocks had an unsupported area in the chamber, something corrected in later Glocks. I don't know and don't claim to. I'm not a Glockaphile, don't dislike them, don't like them, basically indifferent.