Wow.

The pattern is full?

Got a little left rudder to hold the nose up to!!

Wow, not much lift in that configuration.

That is either one hell of a pilot, or one major oops.

We call it a "fly-by". In the middle of cruise if things got kinda boring you'd call the tower and ask for a fly-by. It was usually low and fast and it was a great opportunity for the maintainers to see their jets in action. Morale builders, you know.

I did one at night off the Midway in a Phantom. We had topped off with fuel off the cat but then they decided to cut our cycle short so we had lots of gas to burn i.e. "waste". I'd never seen anyone do a fly-by at night but I thought "what the hell". We called up and asked for a fly-by and a couple of minutes the word from the Captain (Capt Chuck McGrail...a fighter pilot himself no less) was passed and it was "fly-by approved; just don't blow my windows out".

We came up the wake at 100 feet or so and maybe 500 kts. About a mile aft I plugged in the burners and pulled to 90 degrees straight up and unloaded to zero G with those J-79 burners pointed right down at the deck. At zero G with no induced drag I think we topped put at 25-30,000' and then headed out toward the marshall stack to wait for our recovery time.

A call from Strike came on the radio, "Switch 204, Strike". I thought "uh oh ; I hope they're not pissed".

"Switch 204, go ahead".

"Switch 204, Schoolboy (the Captain's call sign) passes, "very nice".

A while later after we landed, all the plane captains came up to us and all said, "that was pretty cool sir".
Mission accomplished.

He's pulling g's so he had some lift. It's just not pointed in the vertical axis.

I'd give a nut to go for a ride in one.

Not a pilot but the F-14 is the most impressively awesome plane I've ever seen fly.

MM

Just a fan of many things aeronautical. Only been up a couple times as a guest in a '46 Luskin and once in a Cessna just a bit bigger.

Twas my understanding that lift in the vertical axis, was what kept the pilots ass out of the drink.

I'd give Gristle's other nut for a ride.

You must mean Luscombe.

Could be. Never seen it printed.

Just heard it pronounced by a good old boy Oklahoma ex-crop duster.

Cool story. Two weeks ago I had the great experience of going to the Midway museum in San Diego. By chance, at the end of the the tailhook talk, a couple of retired pilots walked up and started chatting with the retired pilot who gave the presentation. They all flew off Midway at one time or another. I sat and eavesdropped as they swapped stories of serving aboard the Midway. Awesome. Just awesome.

Was on the deck of the Enterprise when they put on a show for a bunch of Senate VIP's. Even though it was announced as he approaced, the super sonic F4 fly by put most of the audience down flat on the deck.

I worked with sub-sonic A3's, but we still had some hot rodders. Guys would get into serious trouble when they started bending engine mounts.

Every facet of carrier activity has to be experienced. It can not be adequately described.

I saw Capt "Snort" Snodgrass (the Aviator in the pic and Commander of FITWING at the time) do this on Truman for a dependents day cruise out of Norfolk.This was during one her very first at sea periods after deck qual (although I have no idea when this picture was taken it was his standard demo)

He came up the wake below flight deck level and pulled up, rolled 90 right at the stern and then rolled 180 left and pulled away to start his demo, the jet at this point is not pulling any g's really and has 500+ knots on it. So it's in no danger of falling out of the sky!

If you've never seen an airpower demo at sea you've missed an airshow you can't believe. Lots of live ordnance and low level high speed passes that you'd never see ashore. Back when we had A-6's on the wall of water pass you'd see a single level pass with an A-6 dropping 30 Mk-82's Snakes from 200'- very much a wall of water

Gees, Smees, ain't no big deal...

My dad had an old buddy of his that flew an AT 6 Texan. He took me up for a ride one time when he came into a local strip for a family visit. What an experience for a wide eyed 8 year old. A couple loops and rolls, and I was in hog heaven. I can't imagine what it much be like to do that stuff in a jet. How you guys stay conscious is beyond me.

F4 pilots did that a few times to the plane guard DDs without us knowing it was coming. When they're coming at close to the speed of sound, you don't hear them until the boom whch damn near flattens you.

That's just cool..

Great photo and stories!

This is what Indian Country looked like when I was busy...



The view from inside can be pretty thrilling, too.

Consider this a "like" button sir!

Jim, i ain't a pilot, but i have flown in a "luskin". My cousin's. coming back from phoenix one night after dark we were getting ready to land at the prescott airport, runway looked real dark, we bounced off of it. "oops, forgot to turn on the landing lights." I decided then not to fly with him again. He light to get people up, turn the motor off, take his hands off, and let the plane self correct. My wife was not happy.
I did open my mouth wide once and wife bought me a ride in a at6 texan. The real pilot did a lot of fun things, i told him to fly it like i wasn't there. When i got to fly it i experienced maybe three g's. there is a tape that was made showing my face during all of this. My wife said you could see me in living color filling my pants. The reason i mention the "g"s is my grandson is a test engineer at edwards, a graduate of among other things the chuck yeager test pilots school. His concept of "g"s is way off the charts.

With those two HUGE motors you don't need no stinking lift! Speed is life, baby!... and I didn't have $hit!

Me too. Witnessed a "fly-by" of an F-14. The plane came overhead at about 80 ft. I could count the rivets on the bottom & it made no sound whatsoever. By the time the sound trail came up the plane was out of sight.

Snodgrass..........not over water but impressive nonetheless.



More



MM

In contrast, I once rode in a '57 Ercoupe.

Side by side seating, and could be flown with the sliding canopy open. We're cruising along at 6000 feet & 90 knots, or thereabouts. The pilot/owner says, we need to adjust course 5 degrees right. Stick your arm out! I do so and watch the compass drift over as I hold my arm in the prop wash. He says, "there pull it in! Whoops, a little too far!" and sticks his left arm out to fine tune the course.

You know its a small plane when your arms double as control surfaces

The F-14 is LOUD..........when it goes by you close to the deck & then goes vertical until it's out of sight, the ground just shakes.

Makes shivers run up my spine.

MM

Anything with an afterburner is loud. When you're converting fuel to noise at a rate of gallons per second, it creates a fuss.

Nothing like rockets, though. They burn fuel at a rate of tons per second. Really.

Yep, but the F-14 is noticeably louder than an F-18, at least to my ears.

MM

It's a shame the F-14 wasn't updated vs going to the F-18.

Great shot with a telephoto lens!

Hard to see from the pics if the burners are selected. In the video (2nd) they clearly are not. When they go to burner, the "feathers" in the aft end spread open like your pupil does. BTW, the loudest of the all was Pug's jet, the Prowler. Mine just sounded like a vacuum cleaner

Discussion dating back 10 years . . .

Q: "Please don't flame me for the title, but I am wondering a lot, why is everybody crying about the retirement of the Tomcat?

"What made it that special? Was it the radar, was it because it was agile, was it the thrust to weight ratio? What could a Tomcat do what a F-18 cannot (except of the Phoenix, of course)?

"I only ask, because when I look on Wikipedia (not alway reliable, I know), it gives me the following data:

"Max thrust 2*120kn with F110-GE400 engines. Typical take - off weight around minimum 27000kgs. That is a thrust-to-weight ratio which is good, but not too special either.

"So, what made the Tomcat really so legendary? Or is the hype somewhat exaggerated?

Michael"


A: "The high speed long range intercept capability of the Tomcat was it's shinning feature. The development of guided missile escorts for the carrier arguably put the Tomcat out of business. Of course, it was a lot easier to put a pair of Tomcats and a Hawkeye a hundred miles or so out in front of the carrier group than it would be for a guided missile ship... but the ship guys won the argument and the role of the high speed fleet defense interceptor was eliminated. After all, a guided missile ship could do everything a Tomcat could, at only a modest increase of 35x the price and with 150x the crew... That is, everything except for high speed recon, tarcap, escort, or strike.

"The D model upgrades helped with the engine problems, increased the T/W ratio and improved it's sustained turn performance.. but that program was on time and under budget so it had to go. Wink The Tomcat gained a very bad reputation with the A models, and especially the early engines. A reputation that it never recovered from."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A: "It was incredible when it first came out. It's capabilities made fleet defence possible at the longest ranges ever, and it's ability to fly farther and faster was eye-popping.

"In it's second life as a Bombcat it was the fastest and longest ranged precision attack airplane in the fleet.

"Hornet could not fly as fast, as far, with as much payload, or perform layered fleet defence interceptor missions.

"If the USN had completed a long range missile replacement for Phoenix then I'd bitch less......but it hasn't in a very shortsighted move. Sort of like the Air Farce neglecting EMP shielding in much of it's COTS procurement's.

"Someone decided we didn't need to do that anymore."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A: "The Tomcat was a beautiful aircraft in the 70's and 80's. The hours and dollars required to maintain it subjected it to political pressures it could not as a program sustain in the 90's, and as such, comparing it (or rather the F-14D) to the F/A-18E/F became a losing political argument when the primary proponent (Northrop Grumman; Connecticut/New England) could not command the political pressure/blackmail it's opponent could (Boeing; Washington/Missouri/California).

"It really always was a maintenance headache, but that's not why it has passed away. If you research the TF-35 you will probably marvel that the type was ever mythologized."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A: "The F-14 was the last true fighter for the Navy, the F-18E/F while an excellent aircraft is a multi role aircraft. There's a belief that if you want a great fighter build a pure fighter, by incorporating so many missions into the FA-18/EF (Fighter, Ground Attack, re-fueler, electronic warfare) that it will be a jack of all trades but a master to none.

"In today's environment I think the F-18E/F replacement of the F-14 while painful was the right decision, as is replacing the EA-6B with the F-18G. I have more concerns about the retirement of the S-3s. There's much greater threat to Carrier battle groups and to the Carriers specifically from the proliferation of modern diesel/ electric subs than from long range bombers/ attack aircraft."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A: "It was the greatest interceptor when you look at how much of a multi-role fighter it was.

"It had such a large flight envelope due to its swing wing - when slow it still provided lots of lift and was agile. When fast it did so quite efficiently and once again with high levels of agility. A non swing-wing aircraft is merely a compromise.

"Looks-wise it was a sexy beast, was large, tough and looked mean.

"It had the best systems with its advanced multi-independent-target, fire and forget systems teamed up with the Phoenix missile. There was simply nothing that could match the Tomcat for long-range interception.

"It could carry such a large load and had an excellent patrol radius especially CAP time.

"The only 2 things letting the Tomcat down were its engines and high maintenance costs.

"When the F-14D came out with the type of engines the Tomcat was supposed to have all along, the real Tomcat came out to play... it pretty much improved performance in just about all aspects by about 25% (range, power, fuel consumption, reliability, etc)... pilots didn't have to be careful anymore with how they handled the engines especially in high-G maneuvers.

"Whilst the F-15 is an incredible aircraft and has a higher thrust-weight ratio, I'd be willing to bet that an F-14 could easily hold its own in the majority of circumstances and come out on top in many others if they were to fly head-head. In some ways the F-14 was more of a precursor to the F-22 than the F-15 is... ie the fire from long range with computer systems.

"Whilst the F-14s days were definitely numbered, if the Navy/DoD had invested in them properly from the start with the right engines and midlife upgrades of avionics etc then the F-14 would probably still be flying until about 2010."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


[video:youtube]DOogqsbxfJo[/video]

Meh...

Watched test pilot Neil Anderson do a corkscrew climb out in a 90° bank with a F-16 in full afterburn staying inside the confine of the air base fence. Now THAT was IMPRESSIVE!

F-14 would rank 3rd/4th on my all-time hit parade.

The Navy had a plan in place to continue building the D and it's follow-on, the Tomcat 2000. That along with the A-6F, but they got sold a ill of goods and put all their eggs in one basket in the A-12 and when it blew up, it was too late to restart. Now we are doomed with the F/A 18 airframe family,basically an F-14D with less capabilities

Bill Gates could buy a fleet of those jets, but no amount of money would ever get him in the pilot's seat.

Jorge, I seem to remember the tail feathers on the tomcat closing down when they went to full burner?

High speed flybys were always a treat. Live ordinance airshows make the precision flying shows of the Blue Angels etc. somewhat less impressive. A 2000lb bomb at 2 miles toss delivered by an A-6 leaves a lasting impression.

True Story: First time in the BOQ at North Island I wake up to someone vacuuming at 0530. Who the hell! Get up and realize the end of the runway was not that far and S-3's were launching.

Watch the video. The "As" with the "Jimmy Carter" motors had to use burner on the CAT as you can see on the video opening up. The A+s and Ds with the good engines needed no burner on the CAT, just MRT and then the cans/feathers did close up

I think what I was remembering was closing down for full military and then opening as the burner increased.

The AT/AQ Shop was right under the #4 JBD on the USS America. FA 18's on the Cat are the worse. 14's are much deeper in tone and sound great. 18's are higher pitched and just sucked.

You can't compare Air Force jets to NavAir. AF are built to a much lighter standard due to such an easier life. Cat Shots, Arrests, and the environment just require a tougher bird.

FOD Walkdown was always improved for the MATWING side of Oceana when one of Tom Cats were practicing their Air Show routines.

Was down in Vegas two weekends ago. Driving down I-15 past Nellis just at 4:30-5pm. Was hard to keep my eyes on the road as F-15 and F-16s were flying the pattern and making the break. I had to explain the procedure to my wife. She didn't understand why they flew such close formation. I told her "You have to look good around the base." "Out over the range they can spread out and fly loose but around town....you gots to look good"

The damn F-35 (sorry to even mention it, jorge) is a loud sumbeach, too. I'm just exactly nine miles from Hill AFB, as the crows and sound waves fly. As I type this, I can hear F-35s taking off and turning out over the desert. There's a distinct difference between them and our good old F-16s. It used to take at least a two-ship formation takeoff to rattle my windows like just one F-35 does. I genuinely pity the folks who live closer to the base.

Rocky, we live 2 miles from the runway at MCAS Yuma, they have the F-35's , our house is directly under the downwind leg when they are practicing, they are plenty loud, but then the Harriers are about the same. Yes, they rattle the windows. No, I don't mind, I figure it is the sound of me not having to take my wife downtown and get her fitted for a burka .

The "turkey feathers" are there to contol back pressure in the tailpipe/combustion chamber.

In the Phantom the turkey feathers were open at idle and closed (puckered) at somewhere around 75% rpm IIRC (it's been 30 years) on run-up and then opened when you went to burner.

In the mid-eighties when I flew the F-14A with the Pratt and WhitneyTF-30 (we called 'em Pratt and $h_tney's) the turkey feathers were open at idle, then closed at a mid range rpm on run-up, then opened again in burner. As a recognition feature, when closed, the turkey feathers of the TF-30 in the F-14A had a double radius...think like a Weatherby cartridge.

One big reason that the Tomcat went away when it did was that the Tomcat community viewed itself totally in the air to air fighter mode vs the bomber mode.There was a lot of serious foot dragging in the development of the Bombcat along other political considerations mentioned by Jorgei. As we found out later, the Bombcat had great legs and a great bombing system but it was too little too late.

As Rocky mentioned above the afterburner fuel flow in both was on the order of 1400-1500 pounds per minute IIRC. In the Phantom we normally launched with about 18,500 lbs and in the Tomcat and two tanks it was 20,000 lbs. In burner it went away fast.

While training in the Tomcat it was constantly pounded into us not to get too frisky in moving the throttles into and out of burner at high speeds or high angle of attack maneuvering to avoid compressor stalls. Maybe because of that emphasis, in 850 hours in the Tomcat I only had one brief one that cleared immediately when I pulled the throttle back.

I can tell you that on maintenance check flights after an engine replacement I was never as comfortable doing the high speed Mach run or shut downs/relights in the Tomcat as I was in the Phantom.

What a great thread

Yes it is. Aviation has always fascinated me, and that goes double for Naval aviation.

When I was in CVW-8 at Airwing Fallon VF-84 tried dropping some inert Mk-82s off their F-14A's with the base software into a target in Bravo 16. They bracketed highway 50 about 7 miles off range with a pair. Hmm, VF-41 tried it. Same result. Clearly the fighter software needed some updates to get the bombs on target.

Those were desperate times as we prepared for Desert Shield knowing that it was highly likely we were going to war. There were very few of us read into the actual plans and I only was as a LT because my collateral duty was to build the mission profiles in the software libraries to program the ALQ-99 Jamming system. My fellow JO's would have been a little more apprehensive had they known the assessment was that we would lose 50% of the Prowlers the first night but no one was going to a back out we were young and immortal.

Always felt good to see a Tomcat as an escort. Here's a picture from that cruise.

+10

Great thread!

My brother in law is a USAF Colonel (Ret).

He's flown some of the fast stuff (Bosnia, etc) but the stories I most enjoy hearing are of him flying the A-10 in the gulf wars.

It's like the difference listening to a guy talk about how he took his Lamborghini to 200 on the autobahn one time, versus the next guy who put 400k miles on his trusty, rusty Tacoma that always got him home and saved his ass. There is just a fondness in his voice for the warthog that is palpable.

By the way, thanks to the military members in this thread. Your service is much appreciated!

I was in Saudi, PSAB as part of OSW in '02. A package would go out, and the Prowlers would circle the field, climbing. Loudest SOB's in the air, thats for sure.

[video:youtube]5jxcSY1AwrM[/video]


I always loved the whistling sing-song of a Prowler on final!

[video:youtube]NMVna9SvLVE[/video]

Anyone who has worked the flight deck will feel the hairs stand up on their neck with that Intruder Intake video. I've seen it many times and it still terrible. That might have happened when I was in (85-91) but not VA-85 thankfully.

A Hoover (S-3) got a guy for sure when I was in. Eisenhower or Forrestal I believe.

Hell, it's easy enough to get your legs swept out from under you when they were moving a Huffer around the launch.

Happened on Roosevelt in 91 on Cat 4. I was in Ready 1 sitting the alert and watched it happen on the LLTV. He was on the ships TV the next day, still pretty deaf. Lucky lucky guy.

You folks that worked the flight deck day and night in good weather and bad deserve a whole lot of credit. I went up there during flight ops only to get to the jet and then via the most direct path!

We are so lucky to have so many members here who've "walked the walk." I've always been a military aviation freek, going back to WWII and before. I worked with an older fellow who was a member of the P-36 Seversky development team. Man, he had some great stories. I've had the honor of meeting everyone from a guy who flew coastal patrol in Navy dirigibles, to WWII fighter and bomber pilots, even a Stuka jockey at an airshow one time. My favorites have to be the guys who fly the jets though. You men no doubt have balls that clang.

Thanks one and all for your service.

Great writeup! I remember the early Tomcat guys having to "fight" the motors vice the airframe...

When I got a new baby RIO I always told them before we walked up on the flight deck to man up, "you stay right behind me, close enough that you can touch me on the shoulder until we get to the jet. After we land if you beat me unstrapping (pretty unlikely) you don't go anywhere and then stay right behind me 'til we're off the deck."

Nowadays, when I'm briefing our student naval aviators for for their CQ simulators, that if they have to shut down and swap jets I tell them once again to not go anywhere without one of the "yellow shirts" (flight deck directors) or one of the plane captains.

I saw some really, really horrendous injuries/incidents one the flight deck. Heavy machinery, some of it moving fast and pink little bodies don't mix very well.