Make that Labour Unions for our good Canadian friends.

You, or close relative ever belong to a union?

What do you think about the unions, past, and present?

At one time there was a need for unions. But in today's world they have evolved into the financial arm of the DNC.

Practically all of the myriad financial problems facing the great state of Penna. can be laid directly at the feet of the public sector unions.

They were good at one time.

Dad was a letter carrier for 30 years. The union did a good job of helping them as they transitioned from purely a government agency to what it is today. Now even dad admits they've gotten out of hand.
I worked in a union shop for 3 months. We basically ignored it and just did the job.

I was a member of a Teamster's union in Ohio many years ago when I worked in a bakery. The level of corruption was amazing. But then again, this was in Youngstown, where the mob ran everything worth running.

I was in the Teamsters for 15 years. This was back in the 70's and 80's when corruption was pretty bad. At that time, the members didn't have a vote on officers. In the 90's, the feds forced them to change that.
When I was in it, Idaho went right to work. However, anyone who quit was likely to be ostracized by other workers so I stayed in.
My company went under in about '89. I had in just over 15 years. At the time, it took 15 years to be fully vested in the union pension plan so I was protected. I've been drawing it since I retired 3 years ago. It's not a lot because I worked for 25 years in non-union jobs after that, but it sure helps.

There is probably no one who is against labor unions as I am. I believe they go to the extreme far more than they act sensible about things. However, I belonged to the rural mail carriers union. As far as unions go, I doubt it had much clout when compared to something like the auto workers union. It had it good points, as well as it's bad ones. But, I'll say this, if anyone thinks that all employers will treat their employees fairly, they have no clue as to what the Post Office is like. We had some supervisors and postmasters who would go out of their way to harass someone they didn't like, and we had some that sexually harassed employees. On the flip side, there were many employees that weren't worth a damn. So, was a union needed? When I first began as fulltime carrier, my postmaster claimed they were having trouble finding me a substitute, and I was working with no time off. My wife was a postmaster at another office, and thru her I found out that my boss was dragging her feet about hiring anyone. I made one phone call to the union, and got that problem solved. That was my one and only union experience, as I never attended any meetings, or took part in anything else union wise. They helped me when I needed help, and I did appreciate that.

Brother is a glazer. He gets the benefits and wages; also HAD to go through apprenticeship, has to keep certified on welding, safety, first aid. Those commercial windows and doors are heavy and will kill if they fall. He has had oldtimers try using wood shims, cut corners, and do things that are dangerous with new heavier glass. Now he is the old guy, and the new guys sometimes are just as bad.

He put the windows in DIA tower twice, they are installed from the outside leaning out. First set was put in, then the contractor sent in the welders to finish.

I see good and bad, the main problem that still allows unions to exist is si.oly laws don't go far enough to.protect workers fair treatment.

Overtime pay needs to be increased if it's that important that you need to work overtime you deserve to be paid exceptionally well for it.

Mandatory overtime laws need to be nixed.

I am a retired member of SheetMetal Local #7. This is a building trade union. No seniority. Good pay, good benefits. If you work good you will make a good living. If not you will sit on the bench alot. Even though I like unions, I do not think any government jobs should have unions.

10 yrs undergound coal with UMWA.........

27 yrs with UPS & Teamsters.........

Happily retired now.........

Thank you sir!!! I'm a retired Laborer(due to disabling back injury) ,but i come from a family of miners including my dad both grandpas and a great grandpa who were all UMWA.......I would be screwed if not for my disability pension!!! I see some areas that need attention concerning some unions but overall i think your a fool if you think big money gives two sh*ts about you....

I belonged to a union for most of my 35 years with the USPS. When I was told my seniority didn't protect my job by the union I got out. Area reps. for the union changed and then I was assured it did protect my job so I got back in. I saw good and bad with the union. The federal government managers and supervisors have no accountability and no repercussions for cheating an employee. File an unfair labor charge with the labor board and it sides with the government. The jackazz over finance was doing "something" with travel pay checks and then we would get a letter of demand from the finance center in Egan, MN because we had to take a cash advance for out of town schools and our travel pay check was cashed while were in training out of state. The local finance guy would say "I'll take care of it" and the next month we got another letter of demand. I filed a grievance on it and part of the settlement was have the Inspection Service audit travel pay. The next day the problem was fixed. The local finance guy was breaking federal law with impunity.
I do not support union closed shop but I do support prevailing wage laws.

In my experience it seems the amount of serious concerted effort, support and attention each individual local labor union receives in representation from the international union big wigs is directly proportional to number of dues paying members of a given local.

The huge locals with thousands and tens of thousands of dues paying members are the international union's primary concern and focus. The small locals pretty much serve as worker ants in that their dues are needed to help feed the international union's coffers so they can continue to focus on keeping the union big wigs themselves and members of huge locals fat and happy.

I will add though that I don't know of any company in my area where the work force voted for labor union representation that that company couldn't have avoided it with just some simple, honest, fair dealing, respect and treatment of their employees.

As always, YMMV...

Joken your last statement is absolutely dead nuts right

My ex-FIL was a staunch union supporter for years..The Feds arrested their union rep for embezzling 500K. Guy got a 5 year vacation in the pen and the day after he was released from jail they re-elected him as a rep! I asked him why in hell would you elect him again and he said that he was a good negotiator and got them good raises! Never mind that he stole them blind and the pension fund was broke..

I have been in the Ironworker's , Teamsters and an Operating Engineers (Operating Engineers by far the worst of the three) and all three of them have been money grabbing power hungry A HOLES that only care about their own pockets and could not care less for their paying members.

Obsolete organizations unless you support organized crime syndicates.

I got a quick education in how the unions work about a year after I joined the Teamsters. They were negotiating a contract and called a strike. After a week of that, they came to a settlement but the union president didn't like it. We were called in to vote but he recommended that we reject it. A union business agent came to our little local to conduct the vote. He just stood up and said the president recommended that we reject it so were were going to vote against it. He wasn't even going to read it to us so we had no idea of what he expected us to vote against. We were being TOLD how to vote. Well, the guys here didn't go for that crap. Before it was over, he darn near got tarred and feathered. If he hadn't backed off, he likely wouldn't have got out the door in one piece. He was forced to read it and it was actually a pretty good contract. Our local voted FOR it by a large margin but we didn't have a fraction of the votes to override the no vote from even 1 of the big city locals.

My dad worked in a union warehouse from age twenty-five to age fifty-five when he decided to retire. He thought he would have a nice "nest egg". He went to the union to sign up for his pension. They told him the union pension fund was broke! Gone! He worked in another company for another thirty years. That probably tells you what I think of the unions. I bet they still didn't miss a donation to the Democrats.

If you work in a Union for 30 years and then you find out that the pension fund is broke, YOU screwed up. Your co-workers made the same mistake.

Seniority and not merit-based system that can only survive by continuously asking for higher pay for doing the same job, with no consideration to profit margins (bottom line) of the employer, eventually making labor cost prohibitive. That, coupled with INSANE Gov't regulations and OUTRAGEOUS Capital Gain taxes is big reason as towhy just about everything is made overseas.
Today, they are less than 8% of the work force, but their footprint lingers. GM for example has a 15BILLION dollar nut to crack in pensions, medical benefits etc to people long since retired before they can make a profit. All my employees are Union and like I keep telling them, keep the demand for higher pay and benefits up and eventually we are all going to get sent home.

Labor unions came from communism.

The Teamsters have a number of different pension funds depending on where you are. Mine is through the Western Conference and they're in pretty good shape. I'm told that others have serious problems.

That gets us to the unfunded public employees funds that are bankrupting cities everywhere.

Once. I was forced to join some kind of store clerks union while I was working my way through college in the 1960s. It got me exactly nothing in return for my dues. This was in Illinois, so it was completely currupt, of course.

Decades later, I was doing part-time voiceover work here in Utah. When I got to be on regular call, they said I had to join the Screen Actors Guild to continue. I refused, and that was the end of doing voice work.

I consider unions to be the last refuge of the incompetent. No matter how poor you are at the job, if you are a union member, they can't refuse to hire you, and then can't fire you. I'm not saying that everyone in a union is incompetent - many are highly skilled. But everybody who is employed despite being incompetent IS a union member.

After working for myself most of my life, I joined on with a company that had an agreement with Teamsters. I joined the Teamsters and for the most part was very happy. But, I didnt have any issues with company or union. Then I went back to being self employed, but worked for another union company part time to pay my insurance. Left there for a defense job and closed my shop. Been therr ever since. I am USW. Theyre not the Teamsters thats for sure. After volunteering to help multiple times, I found I knew more than they did. We butted heads and now im there for the money and benefits, thats it. I had some issues through the years, most recently getting screwed by the company with FMLA. The union asked if I wanted them to step in. I asked them wtf they were going to do for me? After explaining the situation they had no clue how to handle it. I told them to standby and if I needed them id let them know. I fixed the issue, with help from a Dept of Labor.

Labor unions are still needed, companies still screw employees over every day. You can scroll over NLRB cases all day long and see that, but its much worse, those cases are only the ones that have charges filed. Millions of issues daily that never get to that point, thanks to the unions and/or employees who actually know wtf your rights are and how to handle them.

Pendulum rarely stops in the middle where it needs to be

Unions were sorely needed when they started

And today? Not so much and as has been noted they're rife with corruption and involved in politics too heavily


They seem to be going away and may very well do so, perhaps not in my lifetime but I predict there will come a time when workers once again badly need a collective voice

Read if you will and tell me unions arent needed today...

NLRB Weekly Summary

And if you feel like sifting through EEOC cases you can search the same.

Corporations will absolutely f over their employees. Or at least some of them will. They'll also trash the environment without a thought if it will save them money. But as has been said before, unions can go too far and be just as corrupt. finding the balance is the real trick. Many Unions and Corporations take a Us versus Them stance instead of a cooperative "Lets get the job done and make lots of money for everybody" stance. Should managers really get a bonus if the workers are barely getting a cost of living raise? Should the CEO really get 6 or 7 figures when the guy turning the screws is getting layed off?
My wife and I own our own business, we're just 3 people so it's not a big deal, but we only pay ourselves 20% more than our employee. When we can pay ourselves more, we'll pay our employee(s) more as well. We can't do it without them.

If this were mostly true (which it isn't)union membership nation wide would be a hell of a lot more than 7%. CEOs get what they get because shareholders and board of directors APPROVE their salaries and have NOTHING in common with a "screw turner". Unions cater to the lowest common denominator and in fact, go as far as making folks work less hard in order to make everyone the same. I can't promote or reward union members. EVERYTHING is subject to seniority. So the folks who WANT to work hard, get pressure to tone it down.

I have worked construction for thirty years, both union and nonunion..people who say unions are no longer needed do not live in the reality of construction.

I have seen a whole lot of abuse go on through the use of intimidation, you don't get that with a union backing you.
This idea that unions prevent employers from firing problem employees is not me experience. It slows that process down, but the bad employees still get the door.

There are two abusive unions in this country, the SEIU and the UAW, construction unions are nowhere near those two.
I once went to a grievance against a fellow Teamster for our employer. Why? Because he was an idiot and an azzhole, and the whole crew wanted him gone. The union talked to us about said employee, then green lighted us to testify on the company's behalf even though they still defended to azzhat.

Labor unions are parasites that infect host companies to suck the life out and destroy.

Bullschitt

GM and Chrysler.

Even worse, they are funding the worst enemy our nation has ever faced, the Progressive Fascist Dem party.

During a lifetime have been a member of three - maybe saw the best and worst of unions through that. Unions were mostly one thing - are now another. The "protections" were important on occasion (not many) but it's not unusual for members to have been let down or ripped off. That's very sad on it's face given "protective" in the alleged concept of a union.

For certain, labor unions should never be permitted for our government agencies - ANY government agency.

In basis I don't disagree with you Jorge. If you know you're going to get just what everyone else gets no matter what you do there's no incentive to do more. Communism at work. But I've seen where people got screwed over because of personal differences with the boss, that wouldn't have happened with a union. I've also seen where the union saved some jerks job who should never have been hired. I was also at a company that went down the tubes while the managers all got bonuses right to the end. The owner of that company has a really nice place in Jackson Hole to this day. He inherited his money and he's entitled to it; but a lot of his employees lost their pensions when the company went under.

CEOs have nothing in common with the screw turner. That's generally true; but it shouldn't be. They should both be pulling to get the job done and make money for the company. Neither can do it without the other.

Is union membership only 7% of the workforce because many companies pay comparably to the union in order to keep the union out?

I'm not a fan of unions. Really I'm not. They do serve a purpose though. Like I said before they do go overboard sometimes.

Labor unions do two things....reward mediocrity, and collect union dues.

If either of these would help you, and you don't give a damn about anyone else, go fer it!

Spent a year in the Bridge and Structural Iron workers union right out of high school. Got exactly ZERO for my two hours of pay that I contributed each week. Chief Shop Steward was drinking buddy with the company HR employee relations manager. Pretty much the company got they wanted. At that point, no use for unions.

Fast forward 30 years. Oldest Son In Law is a union welder. Amazing to hear the BS, non-sense, dangerous stunts that some of the small companies try to pull on tradesmen to cut corners and shave a buck. Company he works for now treats everyone fairly well, so no issues. Previous shop required several calls/visits from his union business agent. Things like trying to put men in a trench without a trench box. SIL had to pull the plug and shut down the job until the safety inspector forced their hand to put a box in the trench. Without having the union behind him, he probably would have lost his job over that, even though it was the right thing to do.

AS much as I am aware that many unions are sucking money to enrich the Union leaders, even within my own family, I can see that there are times and places where they are still needed...

I am QCC (Boilermaker Local 73 affiliate). http://www.qcccanada.com/home.shtml

Our agreement does not anywhere include the word "seniority" so the old guys still have to work for their keep as well as the young. Not without it's negatives but I think there is a big advantage for all members this way in the long run. Without productivity, we would just be undercut right off the map by non-union workers.

Snake, again I ask why union membership has all but disappeared. 7% of the total work force is hardly an endorsement of membership.

The seniority system used by many unions is just built-in incompetency. No matter how hard you work or how good your work is, the worthless bum who was hired 2 weeks ahead of you is going to get everything that comes up.

I would agree to a point with Barkoff on the worst being the SEIU and the UAW but construction unions have their issues as well. I worked construction in summers to help pay for college costs. We were a small non-union company but would hire any qualified carpenter, electrician, etc if we were in a remote area away from the main offices and needed the help. Had a union bricklayer start with us and really sped up our progress by allowing us to go from 2 to 3 bricklayers. Few days after he starts, his union rep comes by and told him to go home as we were not a union company. He asked him what job he had lined up for him to do. Rep said he didn't have any work for him but his union contract wouldn't allow him to work for us. So he guy dropped his head and went home. Had kids to feed. I thought it was a pretty screwed up situation.

As far as employees having a run in with the boss and the union backing them? What about a run in with the union?? Can be just as bad. Especially if there is a dispute between a new guy and someone with more seniority. Union won't side with the new guy "most of the time." I agree that they had their role early but I believe they have outlived their usefulness.

Like so many things, there are at least two "sides" to be considered. Unfortunately, in too many cases, neither "side" wants to accept the legitimate points of concern of the other "side".

People ask why is union numbers so low and going down? Why do you think greedy employers moved to southern states and then to Mexico? Employers are the union killers.

You're right Jorge, 7% is no endorsement and I think they've done it to themselves as evidenced by many of the posts on this and the thousands of other threads we've had here on the board. Corruption is rampant in many of the unions. Saving some jerks job doesn't make anybody happy if the guy really should have been let go. Political contributions to a party you are opposed to doesn't go over well.

At one time the unions helped get decent labor laws enacted in this country and it's cut down on the abuse that corporations apparently heaped on employees in the past. If the unions go away though, a lot of that will come back. It's darn hard for the working guy to hire a lawyer to fight for fair treatment from an employer. Sometimes there's only one employer in town for a certain worker. He can't quit without moving.

Union bosses are a lot like politicians. You have to continually ride herd on them to keep them in line.

Anyway, I have to run to Jackson and get some errands done.

Here's 1 thing that the Teamsters did to help the drivers. Back in the 80's, these trucks hit the market. They were designed to increase cargo space while keeping the vehicle total length within existing laws. The driver crawls into the cab underneath the load, in a very dangerous position. He's in front of and under everything. In a fender bender, the whole rig is right on top of him. He can't see and road spray will blind him. The union looked at them and bluntly told the trucking companies that no Teamster would ever be required to drive one. Point blank. They disappeared very fast, at least in the US. I don't know about other countries.

Can't help with Canaduh, but here's something Americans can read and enjoy.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/taxpayers-paid-162-5-million-union-work/

With a federal public service of 600,000 employees, that's an average of 5 hours per employee per year. Hardly earth shattering. When looking at numbers it's a good idea to consider the context and relative scale of what you see.

I'm sure that $162,000,000 went toward resolving some real earth shattering issues within our government.

Could have been earth shattering if those hours were spent tutoring high risk kids or in community service. You are right, scale is everything and your myoptic vision is blinding you.

Never had a use for a union. Fixed all my own issues and or moved on to a better job.

Hope I never am forced into a union either.

I bet the 29 non-union miners at the coal mine in WV wished they had a union to make that bastard Don Blankenship follow the safety regs of MSHA. Yeah, unions have used their power unwisely at times, they have also saved a lot of lives.

This is the bottom line. Union folks don't care if they run the company they work for out of business so long as they get theirs. They don't have the fore sight to figure out what happens when the company goes broke, because labor is too high. They send their work over seas. They have killed manufacturing in this country and then blame the companies who are trying to survive.

Rocky nailed it {I consider unions to be the last refuge of the incompetent.} Unions have no idea how to run businesses, and don't care. It is the sorriest ponzi sceam out there. All they care about is how many people they have paying dues, because that means more money for them and the demoncraps. That includes unions in education. They don't give two hoots about the kids, unless they grow up and want to teach so they can get money from them too.

What would have happened if all 29 of them called OSHA?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The only blue collar jobs left around here that you'll get decent pay, benefits and a pension are all union. I worked for a union railroad back in the 80's. Our tracks ran right alongside a non union railroad. Our union trackmen got 10.59 an hour and a good retirement. The trackmen doing the exact same work for the non union railroad got 7.00 an hour and no retirement. Things haven't changed union vs non union work/jobs between then and now.

Just as easy to flip that and say unions are employer killers.

Yes, things have changed.
In 1985 unions accounted for 17.5% of the workforce.
Now, as Jorge stated 7% or less.
Seems to me the workers are voting with their feet.

I've belonged to two unions in the past. Neither added any benefit to my situation. I would never advise anyone to join a union.

About the only unions that are still thriving are those covering government workers, where there is no profit motive for management to contain labor costs. In fact whatever is handed out to the unions only guarantees a raise for management so they can maintain their salary advantage.

Government unions should be outlawed.

We've got two companies here locally that produce the same products, electrical connectors and wiring harnesses. One is a union shop and the other is not. I know people who work both places. At the non union plant you'll start at 12.00 an hour for an assembly line job and it'll take you 8-10 years to work up to 16.00 an hour. At the union plant you'll start at 15.70 an hour and be making 22.00+ an hour in 10 years. Nope, no difference.

Not OSHA, MSHA (mine safety and health). To answer your question the coal companies can appeal the mine inspector's write ups and keep operating. That was the situation in the Upper Big Branch Mine when it blew up. There were several serious safety violations cited and the mine was operating under several appeals.

I dropped out of a union inspection company that lied about my hours to bump me out of my benefits and when I called the union they told me I was wrong and to go F myself (in those words).
years later I received a letter from the union stating there had been a mistake with my reported hours but it was to late because I was no longer an active member in the union.

I started working for a non union inspection company and one worker was worried about his retirement so he called the Operating Engineers rep.
the other workers hesitated but was for joining.

I did not want to join but the other workers talked me it to voting for it.

After the vote and the union came in. The union rep. informed the company that I was the one that called them and I was the one that talked everyone into voting for the union.

Dirty bastids cost me my job and I have had nothing but run ins with them every time they set foot on a job site.

Inspectors do not have to be union to work on union jobs. We represent the owners for the quality control for the projects.

The operating Engineers still strong arm company's and owners here in Communist Mexifornia and after they have cost me several jobs I get very vocal when they approach me. The last time I was inspecting Union Pipe Fitters on a Hospital job and the union rep. demanded to know who the Inspector was from the Pipe Fitter Foreman. He was a bit nervous about answering the rep. when I stood up and yelled out. I AM THE INSPECTOR ON THIS JOB.
The rep. verbally attacked me and the old Ironworker came out of me. that rep was runnin and I was right behind him yappin away.

The Operating Engineers threatened to pull all of the equipment operators off the job until the Hospital removed all of the non union inspectors.

The Hospital was tired of the unions crap and told them go right ahead we will bring in another company that we have already been in contact from out of State. They will be here tomorrow.

Unions are just Organized Crime syndicates now days.

Yes we needed them back in the day.

And yes I agree about the Construction company's and how some of them treat there employees but a lot of the employees deserve what they get.

I know because I have been watching them work for the past 28 years as an inspector and even though I am broken and can not do the heavy work I can still work them under the table.

Workers these days do not have the same ethics about an honest days pay for an honest days pay.

I hate unions. Growing up I watched the United Mine Workers completely destroy WV's economy.

I hate unions also.

I think that in places where unions have been a fact of life for a long time, an self-perpetuating adversarial relationship between management and labor has developed that persists even when no longer necessary.

As an example, I worked for Nokia Mobile Phones in Fort Worth during the late 90s. There was never a union presence, and the work atmosphere was unbeatable during the time I was there.

In early 2000, I went to work at Motorola in Fort Worth. Motorola's HQ was in the Chicago area where there had been a longstanding union presence. Much of the management at the Fort Worth location came from the Arlington Heights facilities and offices, as well as some of the operations types. The atmosphere at Motorola was oppressive, and it seemed everyone there was looking to slip a knife into your back at the drop of a hat. I always figured it was part of Motorola culture that evolved in the presence of the adversarial relationship between management and the union.

I didn't shed a single tear when they announced massive layoffs in late 2001. I missed the paycheck, but not another single aspect of that gig.

Oh brother. Everybody has a fugkin' excuse.

If your employer puts you in insanely adverse conditions and you want to work them, go right ahead. They needed a union like I need another beer.

Learn to fugkin' type or get a CDL for Christ sake.

Or here's an insane concept nobody thinks of any more. Try moving?




Dave

The context is this - those Guv employees are not working for a corporation or business that contributes anything to the economy, the employees contribute nothing to the making of a profit but rather get paid well by fellow taxpayers, and they do not work under conditions where excellence is required - or even expected. And their employment is protected by all sorts of rules and guarantees.

So - a "union" is not needed and, due to the above noted context, government workers should not be unionized. Further, in such a sensible context, there would be zero free/paid time given to union work - and at least that 162.5 million would not be going down the drain.

Growing up in WV I watched coal companies declare bankruptcy, not pay pensions for their workers and open up 2 months later under another name. I watched them lie about black lung tests and screw workers out of disability classification. Unions may have done some bad. But the coal companies hurt WV 100 times over the good they did.

LMAO.





Dave

I belonged to carpenters local 100, for 46 years. I'm am proud to say I'm union member!!!

Having dealt with many MSHA inspections I can say with certainty that the MSHA is a poster child if government incompetence. I wouldn't depend on them to keep me safe, nor would anyone else with half a brain.

I worked in the USW for 4 months. Moved to supervision as soon as I could and immediately negotiated myself better wages and benefits vs what USW could do for me.
I have also supervised IBEW and UAW employees. The IBEW are pretty good as unions go. The USW and UAW are complete bums.

I just read through the entire thread. I get the feeling many of the positions are based on one-off happenings similar to "oh I had a problem with a Remington (Winchester or) and I will never have another one." I was a union member for many years and also served on the executive for a lot of those years. I can honestly say I have seen both good and bad but overall the union presence was positive. A lot depends on the make up of the work force and the caliber of management they had to work with.

I have now been retired for nearly 24 years so can't honestly comment on current conditions.

One of my part time jobs prior to finishing school was working for a large transport company. One of my jobs was to prepare the mileage reports from which the drivers were paid. Once the drivers learned they could trust me I had many of them coming to me to obtain copies of their mileage reports to use in disputes with the company who constantly kept trying to short change them. The company wasn't unionized and in order to stick up for their rights the drivers banded together in groups of 6 or 8 to go to the company head office to argue their cases.

I have seen so many pro and con cases that I can't begin to cover them here. Maybe they are not needed as much now as they once were but I know for a fact if they never had existed working conditions, wages and benefits would be much worse than they are now.

Jim

Unions ain't all bad and employers ain't all good. Unions have grown too big and powerful and serve the interests of the brass first.

Would you depend on a union?

Dad always told me if you got caught with matches or a lighter in a mine it was an automatic firing and the union said good bye to you.

Absolutely not. The best and the brightest are not the ones that assume "leadership" positions within the union in most cases.

I've watched OSHA inspectors doing a general random walk-thru visit a few times at a manufacturing plant I worked at for a couple of decades.

It was like they had no idea what they should be looking for.

Plant management was usually tipped off beforehand by other companies whenever OSHA was in town. They'd hide or shut down what they knew or believed they could be gigged for and slap some yellow paint on anything that might be passed off as a safety guard. Usually wind up with a few minor non-critical infractions, like 110 receptacles, fans, a pallet or something leaning where it might trip or fall over on someone and such stuff, mostly just to prove they were there, I suspect.

One time in 20+ years they got hit extra hard by OSHA inspectors. The reason that time was because a few very knowledgeable electricians and maintenance employees put together a lengthy technically detailed list of serious safety infractions and sent it to OSHA along with a note stating duplicate lists would be sent to appropriate authorities in government as well as news media. The OSHA inspectors that they sent out that time knew their chit, too.

The same company refused to even let OSHA inspectors inside their facility the next time they showed up a few years later.

And the union was locked on?

They fund the destruction of our country by Progressive Fascists, AKA Dems.

Never worked in a union.
I managed one plant, 20 employees that decertified.
I became president of a company late in my career. One of my plants went on strike, and essentially refused to negotiate. We replaced most of them. The plant became immensely more safe and efficient.
I could never work for a socialist organization, like a union.

I was n the carpenters union. I got vested for 3 weeks. On a Friday afternoon they said they have no more work for me. ( Thanks, 2:30 PM on a Friday) I got home and a message for me , the diggers will be there Monday to dig your basement for my house. I said I'll build my own house and got unemployment for 6 months. The house was almost done and I went self employed . Never looked back . Supposed to get $ 730 month when I turn 63. If I do I will be happy. I liked 2 of the 4 companies I worked union for . If I had chance I doubt I'd go back . Too much democrat cheerleading.

To me the union representation seems backward in this country.

In many cases unions represent what are already some of the best jobs - heavy manufacturing, skilled tradesmen, police, fire, teachers. Those would be good jobs regardless.
Some of the people who are really downtrodden and need representation, like Walmart employees, are ones that need a union the most and can't get representation.
In the Northwest and other places you see the minimum wage being raised to $15/hour but those seem to be occupations (food service and hotel) where a union could have been a better solution for all involved.
In this part of the country they make a huge deal about Cesar Chavez but local field workers have no representation so I don't see where Chavez has benefited them today.

The union that represented me did a good job of negotiating wages and benefits and my comany did a good job keeping those benefits out of the hands of the union, so my pension was still there when I retired.

Balance, Grasshopper, balance.

Do not believe in unions because they force you to join.

Sorry Rocky, but the highlighted parts are pure bullshit. Got a friend of many years who will not speak to me because I fired him. And both of us union.

Am doing different work now, but was having an off-work conversation with a new general foreman ( rose out of the union) about another employee who is everyone knows really needs to be fired. G.F. told me that union or no, documentation of "cause for dismissal" is the major hurdle, and that the foremen are generally to lazy to document anything negative. G.F. also reminded me that the most incompetent person on the payroll was a foreman who came off the street from another industry. Can't be fired because of family ties.

Boilermaker's Local 5 ,New York-retired

I am a union member in a closed shop, i.e. I have no choice but to join. I wouldn't give 2 cents for our national, they are worthless. On the local level there are some people who work hard on behalf of others, but most of the problems they have to solve are caused at the national level. Unions do little but create an "us vs. them" environment with management and everything evolves into a series of pissing matches that do nothing but waste time and resources.

If the Union is looking out for the Workers, I am all for it!

If the Union is looking out for its own leadership, I am not for it!

There seems some of you have experienced both..


Seen and heard a lot of backroom dealings, where Union leadership and management screws over the workers.
Family members of said Union leadership getting cushy jobs and money on the side.

But I also know, that I would have never been able to negotiate the types of pay and benefits I had, on my own!
It kept pushing up our wages, making the company have to innovate, streamline and train its workers, instead of offshoring.

possibly they were needed at one time. In time, they morphed into communist/mafia run organizations. Now they just exist to fund liberal politics. Glad they are dying off.

I grew up in the Rust Belt town of Youngstown, Ohio. The steel mills were all Union, and as corrupt as they come. Coincidentally, the mills are all gone now. A once proud steel town is now a ghost town. The mob ran the unions, and I'm sure still does. My one experience with a union was when I worked in a bakery in Youngstown. It was a Teamster's Union, and they did absolutely nothing for us except take our dues.

There was a time when our work force needed union representation to secure good benefits, safe working conditionsl and the chance for a reasonable retirement. I think those days are long gone.

Center For American Progress, REALLY??? Why not just go to a Cuba or even Finland government source? A completely useless and irrelevant chart (kinda like you). There is a reason as to why union membership is down to less than 7% of the American work force and the ONLY reason it's even that high is because of democrat extortion where they FORCE people to join. The reason middle class wage decline (which BTW, your chart fails to describe), has little to do with union bullshit. Unions are on record (as in the US Steel Industry for example) of preferring to destroy a business rather than negotiate. The Union motto: Pay me more so I can work less...

Yes.. Who lobbies most in Washington DC.

Unions in for workers rights and more pay.
or
Companies to offshore production and less workers rights.


So its Unions faults that wages has been stagnant for almost 30 years?

Or Multinational companies doing what ever they can to increase profitt margins.
Which means busting unions and offshoring.

While I agree in general with your stance on unions, you don't have a clue what happened to the US steel industry.

Unions are just organized crime today.

117 strikes during the 1950s. Then towards the end, when US Steel told the Union this is our last offer or we'll have to shut down, the unions elected the latter.

"The union won a Pyrrhic victory by retaining the work-rules clause in its new contract. However, in the long run, the strike, for the first time in U.S. history, led to wide-scale imports of foreign steel, from which the domestic industry never recovered. " This is just for the last one in 1959...

source



To the IDIOT Northman, try insane Capital Gains taxes (democrats) and Unions demanding outrageous pay & benefits. Corporations exist to make money, not be a source to ensure overpaid workers get subsidized at the expense of investors. Look at GM. They have a fifteen BILLION dollar yearly nut to crack in the way of pensions and benefits to no-longer productive workers before they make their first dime of profit.

Unions drove companies to go offshore.

Yes companies has it rough.. Thats why they should innovate instead of cut and run.

Yes they innovate by getting rid of no-loads though innovation. Like McDonalds is doing with automation after the insanely idiotic (like you) minimum wage. But here and once again do some research (to include learning how to write and spell) before you embarrass yourself. Then again, its more fun..

In 2014 the United States had the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world at 39.1 percent (consisting of the 35% federal rate plus a combined state rate), exceeded only by Chad and the United Arab Emirates.

I had 24 years as a diver in the dockbuilders in n.y.c,i believe when the unions first started they had the workers best interest in mind.but as more and more big money came in the temptation for graft became too much and they got greedy,got mobbed up and destroyed the principle of the thing.
i watched my own union destroy itself and become absorbed by another union and cease to exist ,in traction from my hospital bed.i do know this,a
union can be run by and for the men and do good for the working man,i ve just never seen it.and i say this as a union member,foreman and shop steward.in my 24 years i ve seen everything and more from the above posts.i just hope the pension i payed into doesn t go broke.

Union member or not, we ALL currently enjoy many benefits from past union efforts. Neither side is perfect, but I do know I enjoy many more benefits with union representation on my side. My union (QCC Canada) does not have a seniority mention in it's contract, so we all have to work for our keep no matter how long our service.

Unions have innovated.
The tier system they now use.
Tier 2 folks are consumables to further tier 1 employees at reg wage and maintain pensions for retirees.

Is what it is.

Certainly not even. But they'll call you brother just the same.



Amazing, how when I was salaried at GM..........how 70% of a GM car was union content, but Chrysler having gone through bankruptcy (1st time).........was 70% non union content.

Chrysler guys just waved their American flags and spouted the union stuff even more.

Lots of good people work at union and non union shops. Gov bailout of GM and Chrysler has strings attached............IMHO. They are businesses..................but lots of the new tier 2 employees are felons, babby mommas and fuggin' dumbarses.............obviously having special boxes checked on applications.

It's a business, not a social experiment!

If the UAW was so smart, why didn't they buy Saturn................just have union management, engineering, hourly etc....................the whole place UAW?

The Obama/Geitner deal and pensions of some salaried...................still being fought in court.

What did Geitner say?..................Oh yeah, something about "protecting the greater good" (when union pensions went untouched.

The union backing Hillary pretty much tells you all you need to know.