Between a 338 federal and a 35 whelen which would you choose and why? I'm pretty much set on getting one of the 2 from Montana rifle company. I understand that it can take up too 20 weeks to get the rifle from them and I'm not worried about that. I do not reload but am seriously considering it. The game that I'll mostly be hunting is deer. Also is it difficult to get started reloading?

.35 Whelen, a great classic round that is very versatile and is a hammer. Easy to reload, too.

Whelen, will shoot the 250 gr.s with umph, 338Fed, not so much. The 35 Whelen is just more for the same money.

I suggest you get a hold of a loading manual and you can learn how to reload while waiting for your new rifle.
It is a rewarding hobby.

I chose the 35 Whelen and do not regret it.
It doubt that the deer will know the difference.
There is no reason you can't have one of each.

whelennut

First, welcome to the 'fire.

Now get ready for "abuse".

Some will ask why those two calibers?

I'd suggest a 9.3x62, just because it's said it will do anything the other two can..........and more!

Geno
PS, nah, your two sound like reasonable choices.

If you want an AR-10, then sure, .338 Federal.
For wood and steel, Whelen and a set of dies.

If you wish to skip the reloading, .338 Winchester Mag.

I had a 9.3 at one time. Wonderful cartridge but I LOVE the .375 and sold the 9.3 because it was doubtful it would ever see much use. I probably owned a half dozen or more .375s and it just never fails to impress me.

another vote for the whelen. when you start reloading you can use pistol bullets for cheap practice.

Ed

Great point about being able to use .357 bullets for plinking loads, if you do start to reload.

I'm voting for the Whelen as well. I have two of them, my favorite rifles. They put really big holes in elk.

Welcome.

I made my rifle in 35 Whelen and it has done all i have asked of it.
The longest shot on a whitetail deer is 300 yards.

On coyotes the 200 grain bullets or lighter will do a darn good job.
While the factory loads are somewhat slower they will kill.

Neither.

I've had 35 Whelen, 338-06 and looked hard at the 338 Fed numbers. I wouldn't touch any of them. For what you want to do most any of the 26-30 calibers would be a better option.

If you truly need anything bigger than 7mm or 30 caliber nothing in 33 or 35 caliber is enough bigger to matter.

.35 Whelen and no,it is not difficult to get started handloading.

35 Whelen.

I chose the .35 Whelen more than 25 yrs. ago and have been very pleased with that decision. It worked fine on whitetail deer and off season I shoot cast bullets and .357 handgun bullets. The Whelen is very easy to load for not fussy in the least.

I have made rifles in both those calibers as well as the 9.3X62, 9.3X57, 338-06 and 358 Winchester.
In the modern Montana actions I would probably not advise using the 9.3X57 because the feed lips and magazine need a bit of work to make it feed. The 9.3X62 is all the 35 Whelen is and more, (as Valsdad pointed out) but that is not important to the deer hunter of America. In fact for deer, of the 2 you mention and the others I mentioned, I'd probably go with the 338 Fed because it is the least powerful, and still enough for elk and bear. None of these calibers are for wimpy school girls or tiny deer.

In most cases, my custom builds have been on Mauser actions, so the 9.3X57 is a real gem for them, but on US made actions it is more labor intensive to make work, In KAR length M98 Mausers its a simple re-barrel and you have a wonderful shell to hunt about anything with. I prefer the 9.3X57 to the 358Winchester,(another one to think about) but it won't reach the levels of the 35 Whelen or the 9.3X62.

If you are looking for the lightest weight rifle the 338 Fed is going to be good, as it uses the shortest and lightest action. If you want a more powerful rifle the 35 Whelen is going to beat the 358 Win and the 338 Fed but still comes up short of the 9.3X62 in power and also in bullet selection.
Most of the .358" bullets made today are not as heavily constructed as most of the .366" bullets you can get. The reason is that the largest part of the sales made to hunters using the 35 cal are for deer, and most .358" bullets have deer in mind as the target. Not all. There are bullets that are available for larger heavier even dangerous game in .358", but less then in the .366". For elk and larger, look to Nosler (Partitions) Barnes, and Swift for your 35 caliber.

So before making your choice you should realistically ask yourself what the rifle will be used for. It's best to get the best tool for 95% of the game hunted, not 5% of the game hunted. Where do you live and what do you hunt? If you hunt with that rifle for the next 40 years, how many times will you kill elk, or big bears, or moose, buffalo, or go with it to hunt plains game in Africa? If these things are on the bucket list, but not on the schedule more power is probably not only not desirable, it may be detrimental.

Many American shooters buy a new gun on the basis of "power" or velocity, when they would be happier down the road if they had bought one that fit the bill perfectly instead of fitting a bill that didn't ever really exist.

And to add to your dilemma I would also tell you to look at the 338-06.

Lastly and probably most importantly, Handloading for any of them is easy and you should get into loading your own ammo no matter what you choose. You can shoot 2X as much for the budget if you load your own, and shooting is the thing that makes men good marksmen. Practice with larger centerfire rounds is very expensive if you don't reload your own ammo.

So, looks like the jury has spoken.

Post pix of your new Whelen when you get it.

Now he'll go out and buy a .257 Roberts.

i have both but would go with the whelen. nothing wrong with either but the whelen cool factor is uber. looks like a mini 50 BMG.

If you are just going to kill deer, that would be a fine solution.

Whatever floats your boat. Both are overkill for Deer. As such, no rational argument is very important. Get the one you like and go hunt. I have a 338-06 and a 338 Fed among others and the -06 stays in the safe.

I've been leaning towards the whelen but the federal still has me interested. I like the fact that the whelen has multiple ammo manufactures. The federal has one. I have read that the recoil of the whelen is comparable to the 30-06 with similar bullet weights. I've also read that it's more like a "push" than a hard smack of a 300 win mag. I would probably go with 180 to 200 for deer hunting. How would you guys say the recoil is for the whelen

Recoil is about 50% greater than a 30-06 in a rifle of the same weight.

Stock fit is a more important issue with powerful rounds than it is with ore sedate rounds, so that's something no one can really give you a definitive answer to.

Remember that recoil is mathematical, but kick is what you feel. Kick can feel a lot different to 2 different men firing the same rifle with the same ammo.

Kick (felt recoil) is something you will tell us about, not something we can tell you about.

The recoil is a bit more than a .30/06,not bone-jarring,but there.

I have used the 338-06 (since 1993), 35 Whelen (since 1995) and 9.3x62 (since 2001) on a fair bit of game (elk, moose, black and grizzly bear, gemsbuck, kudu, eland...) and have not noticed any difference in capability. I also know the 358 Win is a swift killer on a variety of similar game in Africa. I would expect the 338 Federal to run with the 358 Win. Kind of the 270, 280, 30-06 debate?

Depends really what hunting I had in mind and what other calibres were in the rack at home.

I could find a number of splendid uses for a .338F, where in some rare situations the .35wheelchair
or poor mans .375, might prove marginally more beneficial...but If I found I needed something like
that more often, I get another obsolete .35, called the .358 Norma magnum...

35 Whelen. Great classic round that will take pretty much anything in North America.

Currently I only have the 35 Whelen, a 44 Mag Carbine and a 22 10/22. They cover off all my small and big game hunting nicely. I have branched more into shotguns of late but am planning to add a 30/30 and a 22-250 to the safe soon.

The Whelen just because Col. Townsand Whelen's name should be kept alive among rifle loonies.

Otherwise I'd say get yourself a 6.5x55 and go out and kill anything that walks.

Recoil from a Whelen is not noticeably different from a 30-06. I've owned and shot .30-06, .300 WM, .300 Wby, .338 WM, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62, .375 H&H, .375 Wby, .458 Lott, .450 Dakota, .470 NE, etc.

Medium bores kick a little bit harder than a .30-06 but not a lot, even the .375 is pretty mild. Don't let the naysayers who have shot little but have read a lot on forums influence you. If you can shoot a .30-06 or .308 you'll be fine with a Whelen.

when I see someone with 'weatherby eyebrow', nothing needs to be said...




so he should instead be influenced by people who have shot heaps and who's tolerance level may be much higher than his own?
...how can you know someone so little but know whats so good & right for him?

Pretty good advice here. For instance, for many years I shot NRA Service Rifle with a Garand, 66 shots per match IIRC, .30-06 of course, never bothered me one bit. BIL gave me a little single shot .20 guage shotgun, Iver Johnson or whatever, dang thing beat me severely, 3 shots would bring tears to my eyes and bruise my cheekbone. Point is, if you get a stock that fits you, recoil will not bother you that bad. PERCIEVED recoil differs from person to person, no way to predict it.

I would choose a 338 Federal from the two listed.

I have owned a Whelen, brutal to shoot. I currently own a 9.3x64 and a 375 H&H. Enjoy shooting both of them.

With that being said, I am having another 338-06 built. Seems like every 338-06 I have owned, someone else wanted them more. But this one is staying!

For instance?

Recoil in the .35 Whelen is quite manageable if you load the 225gr. bullet, especially if the only game you'll be hunting is whitetail. It would be milder yet if you were to load 180gr. or 200gr. bullets. I also own a .257 Roberts and feel both are classic cartridges that are fine choices for a deer rifle.

Come on, if you have ever shot a Whelen you know it's about like a .30-06 recoil-wise just a bit more, less than a .338 WM and comparable to a .338 Fed. The difference between a .35 Whelen and a .338 Fed is about like the difference between a .308 and a .30-06 but the Whelen is more versatile.

I own a Model 700 35 Whelen. The felt recoil from a 200 gr. seems comparable to most 3006's I've shot on the bench. A 250 gr. is a different animal. Same with my 300 win. mag.. 180 gr. vs. 200 gr..

I've got a 35 Whelen that I used for deer for a decade. Of all my rifles, it has taken far more than any other of my rifles. I shot 200 grain Rem Corelokts over H4895. I downloaded mine a bit so it shot more like a 358 Winchester. It made the whitetails dead, but not in any way better or faster than my 30-06. When I figured that out, I shelved the 35 Whelen and used my 30-06 more.

I don't mean to knock the 35 Whelen. All I'm saying is all that extra energy gets spent on the far side of the deer at normal whitetail ranges. In return, the 35 Whelen offered quite a bit more recoil and was more expensive to shoot.

1) Despite my good experiences with the 35 Whelen, I would not recommend it on deer-sized game.

2) If you do pick a 35 Whelen or one of the others suggested, it would pay for you to be reloading.

I own a Ruger Hawkeye in 35 Whelen and have very limited experience with it. I bought it to be the second gun in a two gun battery for a New Foundland moose hunt (375 Ruger was #1). Due to an elbow injury I downsized my rifles. I shot Barnes Vor Tex 180 grain TTSX factory ammo at 2900 fps (that's 200 fps faster than an 30-06) into groups less than an inch. I hunt with a couple of guys who use the 35 Whelen and they swear by it. That's the way I would go, especially if you were going after game bigger than whitetails. Good luck.

I've killed deer and moose with the 35 Whelen and deer with the 257 Roberts. Both are great guns , but,it's easy to load the Whelen to 35 Rem. levels.In my opinion the Whelen is a much better all arounder.

Consider the 350 rem mag.

Here is a mighty fine Whelen for sale.


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11968196/Re:__35_Whelen#Post11968196

Long action (Whelen) or short (338) ?

How important is are a few ounces? 338 lighter?

Local on the shelf ammo important, is it existent for either? You need to figure this out.

If you reload, is a wide and varied choice of bullets important? More 338 available if they chamber in your rifle.

If it's available in the rifle you want, you reload, and a long action is ok. 338-06

If you just want a "big gun" 9.3x62.

I owned a 350 Rem Mag in a Remington 673. I did local trade with guy and wish I would have kept it. I really enjoyed that rifle. Loaded the Spear 220gr, shot it into bugholes.

Took a couple of deer with it. I moved on to the 338-06 and have not looked back.

First off, I'll admit I'm prejudiced. My vote is for the .35 Whelen. I'll also admit that I consider Remington's factory ammo to be rather anemic as just as they did with the .280 Rem. they went with loads suitable for pump and semi-auto rifles. When will they ever learn?
Handloaded the Whelen is a horse of another color. My pet load shoots the 225 gr. Barnes TSX at 2710 FPS and drops elk like a rock. I've taken elk as far out as 350 yards with it.
JMHO but I think the 225 gr. bullets are the way to go, especially if after game larger than deer. For the great bears, probably would go with the 250 gr. Nobler Partition but would now worry with the 225 gr. TSX.
As has been mentioned. one can download it to the levels off the .35 Rem. or .358 Win. for deer with a reduction in recoil if that's an issue and go to full power loads for the larger game.
The Whelen is also an excellent cast bullet cartridge should you want to try that route.
I have three .35 Whelens. A Ruger M77RS I use for cast bullets, a Remington M700 Classice for 250 gr. bullets and a very nice custom Mauser I found at an estate sale. It's been my go to rifle for elk with the barnes TSX bullet. Groups run in the .50 to .75" range when I do my part. That would be one of the very last rifles I would ever part with.
Paul B.

It is easy to improve on the way a 35 Whelen hit the target.

If going after a large maneating or just tough animal just change the type and or weight of bullet.
As said it does a fine job with cast as well.

For a varmint bullet i use those heavy pistol bullets at speeds less than full loads.
If the stock fits you it does not kick any more than a 30-06 or other types.

i like my 338 Federal in a Sako 85 SS Hunter. Has a 2-7x36 Kahles TDS. Shoots 200 Federal Fusion Ammo very well.

"The game that I'll mostly be hunting is deer."

Then why would you even consider a .35 Whelen or a .338 Federal?

A 30-06 or .308 would be far superior: Less recoil, better trajectory, ammo more available, ammo costs less, bullets for reloading cost less, you can practice more for the same dollars. Plenty of power to kill any deer that walks and, in case you ever hunt elk, that too. If you're absolutely never going to hunt elk, consider a 6.5, .270, or .280/7mm.

35 whelen

I used to be intrigued by more obscure chamberings, now I'm more concerned with how easy it is to get component brass, and how appropriate the available component bullets are to the velocity range of the round.

To me the biggest issue with the 338 fed is most component bullets are designed for the 400 fps higher velocity of the 338 win mag. The 210 gr partition would be a good bullet for the 338 fed, but I'm not much interested in a one trick pony.

If you want a 338, go with the win mag and if can't handle the recoil use 225's and throttle them back to 2700 fps.

I chose a 25-06 nearly 50 years ago (1969). Glad I did then and now. Everything from many prairie dogs to several elk have been shot with the same rifle, which is by the way, a M77 Ruger with a custom stock.

Thanks guys. A lot of good info. It seems like the 338 fed doesn't get much love. This must be because it's still a relatively new cartridge. What I have read on the internet about the Fed is that people that have one absolutely love it. People that don't have one basically see no need for the cartridge with so many 30 cals out there that work fine. So it sound like the whelen is comparable to the 30-06 depending on how it's loaded. I think the most punishment that I've gone through recoil wise was sighting in my mossberg500 with 1oz slugs. Shot well over 20 rounds finally got it sighted in after checking the scope rings and found them loosening up. Rookie mistake I know, should've checked that earlier.

.30-06 Springfield.

The main reason there isn't much love for the 338 fed, 358 win, 35 whelen, 350 rem mag, 325 wsm and so forth and so on is that the critters that require more than a .264-.30 bore in NA are few and far between.

If you're going to jump to the next level of power, you jump to the 338 win mag or 375 H&H.

Nothing has changed In the past 60 years to negate that reality.

Just thought I'd add this from another site.
Paul B.

The 35's Reputation

The 35s have been too often given a "bad rep" - an undeserved kick in the sides from quite a few gun pundits. What have some been reporting? That they are all medium range cartridges. Enemic factory ammo has somewhat fueled this. However, if you roll your own, there are a number of the 35s that can be excellent long range recipes for big game hunting success - when properly loaded that is (see my comments and senario "But This Just In" bottom this page).

Spring 2005 Rifleshooter Magazine declares 35 Whelen the most efficient!

An article in March/April 2005 Rifleshooter Magazine entitled Cartridge Efficiency, written by George W. Calef, proposes - "Forget about the highest power and velocity : which rounds produce the most with the powder they burn?"

I think Calef's article is somewhat flawed with errors of fact, some questions about logic, and and some ommisions (like straight walled cases like the 444 Marlin and the 45- 70 and other worthy efficient wildcats). However, his basic conclusions about 35s are no suprise to knowledgable 35 calibre fans. They confirm my own reflections on relative cartridge efficiency. Calef presents his findings;

"I put my money on the 7mm-08, the .284 Winchester, or the .308 Win., with the thought in the back of my mind that, just possibly, the wonderful little .250 Savage would beat them all. Boy was I astonished when the numbers started rolling in - suprised on several counts in fact - and I suspect you will be too.

To keep you from holding your breath any longer, the winner is the .35 Whelen. This venerable cartridge (a long time wildcat designed way back in 1930 in honor of Col. Townsend Whelen and finally legitimized in 1995 [note - error of fact - should read 1988] by Remington) delivers more kinetic energy and a higher L [Wooter's lethality index] factor per grain of powder burned than any other cartridge.

In Ackley's improved version it is even better, becoming the only cartridge on the list capable of generating more than 50 ft-lbs of energy and a L factor exceeding 5.00 at 200 yards for each grain of powder loaded.

What's more as a group, the .35s are all highly efficient, beating virtually every cartridge of smaller caliber. Even the obscure .358 Norma Magnum is the most efficient of the belted-magnum cartridges [note - by the author's own data the 350 Remington Magnum bests the 358 Norma]. This wonderful efficiency of the .35 calibers is especially remarkable when one considers that most all of these rounds are verging on obsolescence today. Take a look at the list of .35-caliber cartridges; do you or any of your friends shoot one? Luckily they are not entirely gone. In fact Remington reintroduced the splendid .350 Remington Magnum a couple of years ago in the model 600 carbine series."

Edited to add from 35cal.com
PB

X2
No need for either unless bigger game is a possibility and really not even then. No way I would buy a 35 Whelen or a 338 Federal if I didn't reload.

The MRC gun is also a bit heavy. If this is a first big game gun,you will be much better served with a lower recoiling caliber and you may want a lighter gun. If it is a first,I would highly suggest one of the discount Tikka T3's under $500.


If I had to pick I would pick the Whelen and learn to reload, since it has the most versatility with reloads.

35 whelen bullets range in weight from 150 to 300 grains. More bullet options and greater power if needed.

.338F 250gn around 2100-2200mv, will knock the lights out of anything from a 2000lb bull eland and down.
even at distances many people won't shoot at...and trajectory out to 250yd or so aint as bad as some might imagine.

2200 MV 250NP (B.C. .473) S.D .313

100yd 2.69" high
200yd 1872vel 1945egy
250yd 1796vel 1791egy...-7.39"

My .35 Whelen gets 2470 fps with a 250 gr bullet,from a 22" barrel.

WHELEN!!!!!!!!

Ok starman, crs, and 007fj tell me what it is that you like about the 338 federal. I can get factory ammo (fusion) at cabelas and a couple other factory loads at gander mountain. I hear good things about the fusions out of the Fed. If I go with the Fed I would like to be able to push a 210 partition to about 2650 and other 200 grainers to 2700 or faster. Would that be possible with this cartridge? I haven't started reloading yet but I plan on it soon after getting the rifle. Whichever one I choose.

First let me say theres nothing I don't like about the 35Wh...nor here to talk you out of 35Wh in anyway.
I would not argue anything about long vs short act. either.
I don't have a 338F, but I do know the performance of the .338win at longer ranges, the impact velocities
which I trans-late into how 338F would perform at closer ranges with similar impact vel.

The 338fed is capable of serving many people very well as can 35Wh. although you didn't present the option of 338/06
or 338RCM, they would be the ones I also considered if I wanted to comfortably push a .338cal 200-210 in the area of 2700.

I would also point a .308win 200gn NP/AF 2400-2500, at the same creatures I would .338F or 35Wh.

I've never understood the lack of love for the .35 from us (Americans). At the turn of last century we had the very fine 35 Newton. When that faded Griffin & Howe gave us a great 350 Magnum. There has been a host of great .35s and the only one to really catch on is the 9 x 57... errr Whelen.

I'm a fan of the .338 Federal. Ignore the numbers and just use one, you'll love it.

You haven't mentioned what you shoot now, except the slug gun. I have the whelen, admire the .338, but deep in my heart know a 30-06, or .308 will do the same job, sepcially on deer. Or a .270.
Any chance to find one to try before taking the plunge?

.33 or .35 is differenter, but that is all.

Reloading is fun, and saves money IF you shoot often, but you have to find the powder and bullet you like, and then may end up with a can or 2 of powder you aren't using. Both the choices can be formed from readily available brass.

I would start with Sierra 225 grain boat tail bullets and 55 grains of Varget or IMR 4320. (2,700 fps)
That should kill a deer just fine.
whelennut

I bought my Sako 85 on here a few years ago for the sole purpose of changing it to a 260. Once I read about it and bought the Fusion's just for the hell of it, I totally became a convert. It is a lot of performance in a small lightweight rifle. Accurate and the bc of the 338 pills are really good.

I shot two 10 points white tails in 30 minutes one morning two January's ago with one of my oldest friends at the lease. I find myself using the AR-10 260 suppressed or the little 338 more than the rest.

The guy wants to hunt deer and he gets a recommendation of 338 Win Mag?

IMO, if the OP wants to go big bullet for deer the 338 Federal is plenty. Sure, the 35 Whelen is more powerful, but it's a moot point for deer.

The key point is reloading. As much as I like both cartridges, I wouldn't choose either if I didn't reload. Ammo is just too hard to find and expensive. Get a 30-06 or a 308.

"There has been a host of great .35s and the only one to really catch on is the 9 x 57... errr Whelen."

IIRC, the 9x57 is closer to the .358 Win. and I think a bit slower in velocity.
Paul B.

I've had 2 .35 Whelen rifles and never really got into the cartridge. Liked my CZ 9.3x62 more. This was in my elk hunting days. Always wanted a .338 Fed but never did buy one. These days I shoot a 7mm-08 mostly and hunt antelope here in MT. Always thought the .338 Marlin would have been nice but never seemed to get off the ground.

I do plan to reload once I get the new rifle. I'll probably pick up a book for beginners. I have the hogdon 2017 reloading manual and have been thumbing through it. I usually use a 3030 for my deer hunting but after last year decided to get something different. I shot an 8pt at 17 yards quartering towards me. I had to shoot because I was behind a blown down tree on the ground. Hit him good and he still ran down a hill and 150 yards. I know there are a lot of 30 cals out there but want something different.

I do plan to reload once I get the new rifle. I'll probably pick up a book for beginners. I have the hogdon 2017 reloading manual and have been thumbing through it. I usually use a 3030 for my deer hunting but after last year decided to get something different. I shot an 8pt at 17 yards quartering towards me. I had to shoot because I was behind a blown down tree on the ground. Hit him good and he still ran down a hill and 150 yards. I know there are a lot of 30 cals out there but want something different.

Whelen

I try to get a double lung shot where possible. Even 35 Whelen won't make up for poor bullet placement.
However a 250 grain bullet will give you a good exit wound and a blood trail that Helen Keller could follow.

I am one of the converts to .35caliber. starting at 35remington, .358winchester, .350rem mag, .35whelen, and the top of the bunch .358norma mag.
I wouldn't consider the norma mag a short range rife, and i do
think the others work just fine at less than 250.
I just got through stuffing some hornady interlocks, 200 grain, and 250 grain into .358 casings. On the 200 it's a little faster, the 250's about 2200fps.
I think of the relationship this way , the whelen based on a 30.06, the .358win on a .308 casing.
the rem mag is basically a twin to the whelen.
one interesting thing about the . 358 is you can use surplus 7.62.51 brass to reload, like you can 30.06 for the whelen.
i also load for the .375winchester. a 250grain pill just smacks things. I did see a deer shot by a .358 win a few years ago at about 175yards, the exit side was biggley.
you need to be a reloader tho. But you can go up or down.
my next bunch to load on the .358win are cast 158grain keith style bullets with a little unique. the same is true on the whelen you can go up or down.

prm, I recently looked at a 338 federal reloading forum and I'm pretty sure you were on it and I think it was from 2011 or 2012. A lot of the guys talked about tac, leverevolution, 8208, and mr2000 powders. I was just wondering if you've figured out some good loads for the federal. Some of the velocities, bullets, and accuracy seemed pretty good to me. Are compressed loads hard to do? The 35 whelen seems like it would be easy to reload for without having to compress the majority of loads. It all depends on powders I guess.

R_h_Clark I've had the chance to fondle a mrc v2 which is what the whelen would be. It did have some heft to it. A mrc rep told me that it weighed less than 8.5 pounds. I'm ok with that rifle weight and I believe the x2 (338 fed) weighs in around 8 lbs. I took my brother with me to check out the v2 and on the way I told him that I hope I don't like it because of the price. The first time I shouldered it I said to my brother "Damn it" I feel like I need one of these rifles. He said well I have a couch that you could sleep on if it's going to make the old lady mad.

I vote Whelen...because it's a Whelen. I like the odd calibers. Have taken numerous whitetails, a Newfie Moose and even a few groundhogs with them. I load 225gr Sierras in one, and 250gr RN (forget brand) in the other. Both shoot great. The 250gr load is rather warm based on data and only loaded that way because it's what the gun shoots best. Recoil is manageable.

Chumleyhunts, a moose hunt would be amazing. I would like to go on one someday and plan on squirreling away some money for hunts like that. What powders are you using and velocities are you getting out of those loads?

.

Most compressed loads are just powder that is too high in the case to let the bullet seat without pushing some down. You can use a drop tube, or find some way if you think you are crushing too many pellets. It is not like the old black powder loads that had to be packed. The stick powders are worse for that, ball fills and meters very nicely. A bigger case uses more powder, and there are still some that will compress. The advantage is no loose powder to give inconsistent ignition depending on how it lays in the case.

Good to know. I didn't know that stick powders are bad to compress but it makes sense when I think about it. The whelen would be able to hold more powder because it has more case capacity. From what I've seen the hand loads for the 338 tend to be compressed loads. Thanks for the info, all of it helps.

From your choices I would pick a 338 Federal for these reasons.
1. Main use is deer
2. A 180gr bullet at 2600-2700fps will absolutely pancake a deer.
3. I am thinking a 200-210gr bullet will handle everything else.
4. You are going to reload, uses less powder, and does not need premium bullets.
5. If you ever decide to get a suppressor, it would be real easy to develop subsonic loads.

I love reading the Whelen advocates posts. But I just cannot drink the cool aid. My 338-06 will do everything the Whelen will do. If I need to go bigger, the Whelen is not the answer.

If I was going to do a 35 caliber, it would be a 358 Win which is a niche/cult cartridge. Been there done that. Or a 358 Norma mag, which is not legal for DG in Africa. Why put up with that much recoil?

Maybe I am lucky that I have never been drawn into the 358 club.

PJ I think you're spot on. I was thinking in terms of the 35's chronology and tht imo we've had so many good 35s. With so many good cartridges available now out it wouldn't make sense, but it would be interesting to see what the 9 x 57 could be cranked up to with a modern rifle and components.

And my .35 Whelen will do everything your .338/06 will do.

You are correct.

Now that your original question has been answered in spades. I urge you to take a step back and think about this.

Personally, I feel MRC's are too heavy. I know you handled them, but have you handled all the different rifles? Are you sure MRC is the rifle? The rifle is the most important part.

Cartridge choice truly is secondary. There are many cartridges that will serve your intended purpose, some that are more flexible than your two choices. In the end, either cartridge will serve you well. What do you want to shoot?

If you are dead set on becoming a rifle Looney... carry on. It is a very slippery slope full of enjoyment. There are worse traits/habits that one can have.

Just be careful, you may end like some of us on here.

I am left handed so that really limits my choices. I liked the mrc rifles because they come left handed at no additonal cost. I did not mind the weight of them and I figure it can't hurt with the recoil either. I don't spot and stalk hunt in Michigan. Most of the hunting is done from a blind or tree stand. If we do deer drives I'll probably go with the 3030 for the quick follow up shots.

For left handed, (I am, too) consider single shots, pumps, and bolt guns without a cheek piece. (I have a Remington 30 that I use lefty, with the right side bolt and love it).

Not having toa carry the thing does make a difference on weight, at the end of the day even 5 pounds is a lot.

I went to Cabela's about a month ago and I compared how a right handed bolt rifle felt vs a left handed one. I wasn't expecting to like how natural it felt to cycle the bolt with my left hand but I did. I know what your saying about lugging around a heavy gun while hunting. I used to bust brush going after rabbits in the snow with my Mossberg 500. Talk about being bushed after a day of hunting- that would be my definition of it. The single shot shot gun I have is much easier too carry.

I have a preference for a Whelen. Picked up a Model 700 Classic years ago and it has never let me down. Load development was easy. It's fairly light for a larger caliber but the recoil isn't that bad IMHO. Similar to my 7mag with 175's. You can always minimize recoil at the bench using sand bags, etc etc. When you touch one off at game you won't even notice it I assure you. Besides you aren't getting a rifle that you are going to shoot thousands of times at the range. Get a smaller caliber "understudy" rifle for that!

Thanks for the info on the recoil westernmassman. I've read all sorts of crazy stuff on other forums about the recoil being horrible and then other people say that it's comparable to the 30-06. Your right, it's not going to be something I shoot all the time. Maybe just during load development and if some buddies want to go target shooting. It'll primarily be for hunting.

If you get into reloading you can tailor the ammunition to whatever you want it to be.
It is comparable to a 7mm Magnum or a 30-06 with 220 gr bullets.
An ultra light 30-06 with 180 grain bullets can be unpleasant too.
Once your 35 Whelen is sighted in you won't need follow up shots when hunting. It is normally one and done.

I have many loads for the 338 Fed. Hard to pick just one... Probably a favorite is the 160 TTSX at ~3050fps using AA2230. I've shot elk to impala with excellent results.

Many, many good bullets for whitetails. 180 Accubond, 200 Hot Cor and others. 8208 is a great powder for 180-200gn bullets. AA2230 is really fast with lighter bullets, but more temp sensitive.

I still haven't decided which caliber to go with. prm, if I go with the 338 federal I will be looking to duplicate some of the loads that you have come up with. So to start reloading, should I start with some sort of reloaders kit or should I buy everything separately? Also I'm thinking a 3-9 power scope will work well with either caliber, what's everyone's opinion on brands? I would like to keep it at 600$ or less, and with a good warranty if possible?

Have an old Weaver 3x on my .35 Whelen.

Just my .02,but start small i.e. buy separately.

Start with an RCBS kit.

Does the rcbs kit come with all the jazz that I'll need to get started? Calipers, scale, and drop tube ( whatever the hell that is)? Thanks for the suggestion antelope_sniper, I'll check it out.

I know I'll need dies, powder, bullets, primers, and a press. What is fire forming for reloading? Is that using a case from once fired brass in the caliber you want to reload?

Something like this is fine to get a guy started.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit

It's a good basic kit to get you started. Don't get distracted by all the internet dream set-up. Start basic as you work up and our skill improves enough that your loads actually benefit from the additional cost. It doesn't come with calipers, but you can pick those up at Harbor Freight for $10, or a little more at one of the big-box gunstores.

Granddad bought something similar to that about 50 years ago and I'm still using it today.

That's an advanced technique for making cases when you can't buy the one's you need.

For now, just buy brass with the same headstamp as what printed on the side of the barrel, and you won't have to worry about fire forming.

The kit comes with a Manual.

Step one is to read it a few times before you begin loading.

Then go down to the reloading forum and ask your clarifying questions down there. Lots of great knowledgeable guys who are happy to help.

Fire forming is taking a parent case and firing it with pistol powder and a wad to make it into the desired case. In your case a 30-06 will blow out to a .35 whelen, only a tad short; a .270 will be slightly longer. A .308 will form to the .338 Federal. The downside is the headstamp is wrong, and sometimes they split. Now you will want to know about annealing. The dies will expand the necks without the fireforming. Other than buying brass with the proper headstamp, you can buy ammo and use it until you save enough brass. That $1.50 to $2.00 per shell wears on you pretty quickly. Don't get Hornady Superformance, it is thin brass, and you cannot duplicate the load.

As said, go to the reloading forum, every one of us had to start. Some of those guys spend way too much time worrying about seating depths, crimps, concentricity &tc. You probably are like me, and just want minute of deer more or less. If you can find someone close who loads, see if you can sit in.

I went with a 35 Whelen because I was using a long action BUT also "Whelen" sounds cooler than Federal.

This thread has me thinking of sending a Remington Model 7 308 with a 18 inch barrel to JES and have it bored out to .358 WIN....

My 338-06 (non-AI) gets just over 2500 fps with a 21" barrel with 250 A-Frames. The load I used to play back up on Kodiak to my wife on her 9.5' brown bear. Granted it wasn't needed and I didn't get to shoot as it died from one shot from her .308 win

Was gonna go with the 338 Fed and 35 whelen route at one point.

Now I went with the short action (358 win) as my short range sub 300 yard woods gun and a long action (338-06) as my longer range open country backpack gun.

I guess I kinda went the reverse of what the OP is looking at

I don't have a 338 Fed, but I do have an older 338-08 AI, pretty close to the same thing.
Regarding Fire forming, I just neck up 308 brass, load bullets to full charges and use them for practice.
For hunting I use the now fire formed brass with some version of Nosler, a proper amount of RL15 and go.
I have it because it came at a good price, I always have a good supply of .338 bullets and Reloader 15 because I have several other .338 rifles, and it will kill anything I'm ever going to hunt at ranges I feel good about, and it's a pure joy to carry in the high country.
Not claiming it's better than anything else, but it works OK..

So fire forming seems like a technique I'll look at further down the road. First I'll probably get a reloading manual and read it. I looked at that rcbs kit and it looks nice plus it comes with a rebate of 500 speer bullets. That's not too shabby. Any suggestions on optics?

The best educational manual I ever found was called "Metallic Cartridge Reloading"
It not only had load data but went into depth on why things work, such a burn rates. I had commited much of it to memory before I loaded my first round.

Like to hear more about it. I can't imagine you gain too much velocity, but a little 'free' velocity is never a bad thing, and reduced brass stretch is a bonus. Do they feed well? Do you know the case volume of the AI brass?

You don't have to fireform 06 brass to make .35 Whelen. I can't speak for other brands of dies but the RCBS comes with a tapered expander. Run the 06 through the FL sizing die and load them up with your preferred load. Wouldn't be any different than using new Whelen brass for the first loading. I did it that way for several years before I came into a large stash of new .35 Whelen Remington brass, new and unfired. Never had a problem.
Paul B.

^^Nor 338 Federal Brass. Just neck up some Lapua 308 Win brass if you can't find the 338 Fed brass.

I don't push it too hard, staying close to 338 Fed loads. It feeds well, never had any problem with the brass, never checked the case volume.
Most accurate loadings are 45 grs RL 15 with 215 gr Sierras or 210 Noslers.
I've never been one to push my rifles, if I feel I need more I just go bigger.

RL 15 is one I've never tried. So many good choices out there. With those bullets, Leverevolution and MR2000 really shine.

Hands down, a 358 Winchester:) I really wanted a 338 Federal when they came out but I wanted to start reloading and the 358 has a lot of options and had the reputation of being easy to load for.

I think the 358 Winchester I have along with the 9.3x62 that I want will be a Dynamic Duo.

Send John Barsness a PM and see if he can point you to the article he wrote in Handloader magazine #254, August 2008. Good article in there comparing the 338 Federal vs 358 Winchester with some good loads in it as well.

I've read somewhere on the internet that you can't reload brass from Hornady's superformance whelen ammo, is this true? For the first year I plan on shooting factory ammo and that's the cheapest whelen ammo I see out there. Guys on here say it's easy to just resize 06 or 308 brass to either cartridge, so maybe I wouldn't need the brass from the superformance.

IMO, I would recommend just using factory cases for either caliber since you are just starting out in reloading. Plenty of other things to keep track of without repurposing brass.
I have no idea about Hornady ammo as I only reload, but find it hard to believe that it can't be re-used. Maybe you can't replicate the powder, but the brass being different? I doubt it.

My opinions are just that, it short action? 358 W. Long action? 30-06

The 358 has a better shoulder for my single shot stuff than the Whelen, and will do all I want to put up with in light rifles for a 35. It has more bullets and options than the fed, imo.

I know I still have some more research to do on both calibers, but does the ballistic coefficient really matter out to say 150 yards? The 338 federal seems to take the cake vs the 35 whelen in the b.c. department.

No,BC does not matter at 150 yds.

35 Whelen, just cause its famous.

i just loaded up some 200 and 250grain hornady in .358. Easy to do. What is kind of a jaw dropper is looking at that 250 grain bullet lengthwise next to the 308 casing.

Your missing the boat on the 358 winchester. Those old ballistics charts based off of the old Winchester SilverTips is nowhere near what reloading or modern ammo is capable of. The 358 Winchester is probably the most efficient cartridge made. You can shoot cast bullets, pistol bullets, rifle bullets and heavy for caliber big game bullets. I went with the 358 over the Whelen because I wanted to start shooting light loaded cast bullets to replace a lot of my 22 rimfire shooting. Basically I wanted one gun I could shoot year around and nothing come close to a 358 Winchester.

Here's some reloading info. If you compare the TKO numbers to other calibers it backs up what people with a 358 say. It kills better than it should.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=191

I've got some 200 grain

I've got some 200 grain round nose Hornady loaded up, i like the look of a round nose bullet. Are those 250 grain Hornadys old Stock? I thought they quit making them. I bought 5 pounds of 000 BUCKSHOT to load for mine. I haven't got around to that project yet. That's the great thing about a 35 caliber, you can shoot everything from a single 000 buckshot pellet to a 310 grain Woodleigh. You can even shoot a Hydrostablised Elephant Bullet. Powder is the same way. There seems to be very little powder that you can't get a 358 Winchester load out of.

The 358 makes a lot of sense for shooting cast. While the Whelen will shoot cast with aplomb, it is a larger case than necessary even with 280 gr cast bullets and the 358 win is a better choice. Just don't go crazy with the twist rate, I think 1-14 would be ideal. My 1-12 twist 350 rem mag isn't nearly as cast friendly as my old 1-14 35 whelen.

What I found on the HOrtnady brass was it seems to be thin walled to give a greater interior capacity. That gives them more room for their blended proprietry powder which we can't duplicate, The brass has such a different volume you can't correlate tdhe loads to other brass or the book loads. Have you tried looking for Federal Fusion; I bought mostly that in 200 gr., maybe I should have not even tried to reload.

As for reforming 30-06 brass, a decent die with proper neck lube will do the job, or you can fire form if you want a perfect fit in your chamber. The bullet looks so different and the neck size is so different that it is easy to spot the reworked ones. Look back to my other post where you can use any of the 06 family. The splits I had were on .270 brass, hadn't annealed them. There is a certain advantage in having a headstamp that is right, but Whelen brass is expensive compared to 06 and you can find lots of 06 range brass.

The one thing about having a different head stamp is if you trade off anything to a friend. I once gave .25-06 realods done .270 to a friend. He doesn't reload or follow some of the finer details, and got very confused so I had to explain to him about the case families. No good deed goes unpunished.

Acdtually my vote would go to the .338 just because it is differenter. Both the offered choices are way more than is needed for deer.

That's the reason I picked the 358. I had always wanted a Whelen but the 358 would push cast right up to the limit and I was interested in the reduced loads. I see your a 35 guy. I bought a 338 RCM. It's been called the modern day 350 Remington Magnum. Being a 338 I don't completely buy into that.

Have you seen the 358 Yeti? It's a necked down and shortened 308 case to fit into a AR. It's supposed to be comparable to a 35 Remington. There's a video on YouTube where a guy shot a deer and he's showing the damage. He's amazed that his fist fits into the hole under the skiname, then he sticks his hole finger out the entrance hole from the inside. I'm thinking, that's a 35 caliber for you.

I tried to private message that John barsness about that article about the 338 federal vs the 358 winchester and I was unable to send it. It said that the recipient was unavailable or something along those lines.

I have a copy of that article. I can look up the issue and a back issue can be ordered.

Thank you. So going back to talking about reloading for the 338 federal, prm were you ever able to get a 200 grain speer got core going 2725 like alliant powders have in their load data?

Short answer, no. Certainly not using 2000MR and staying at their book level. I need to look at my notes, but I do think I'd be close with AA2230. I asked Accurate Powder about AA2460. There's no published data, but they state it is a slightly slower version of 2230. That may be ideal for a 200 as 2230 absolutely shines with the 160 and 180s. Will get over 2800 with a 180 AB and AA2230. Also, the barrel I've loaded in recent years was a little slower than a Ruger I used to have. If there was a temp stable version of 2230, that would be nirvana in the 338 Fed. 8208 will get you to the upper 2600s with a 22" tube. That's a good option.

Here's a link to reloader nest. You pick a caliber and it shows you the reloads. It can give you a rough estimate of how the cartridges compare. The TKO numbers would be good to look at as close as the calibers are. You should also cruise over to cast boolits forum and search the calibers your looking at.


http://www.reloadersnest.com/rifle.asp

The article is in the August 2008 issue #254.

So decided on the 35 whelen. Although i do plan on reloading in the near future, it's easier for me to find factory loads for the whelen. I went with the Montana rifle company V2. I'll put some pics up after it comes in. Thank you all for the great input.

good move. the whelen is like a mini 50 bmg. its cool factor is uber.

Whelen, I have a Ruger Hawkeye SS and it shoots bugholes with Barnes Vor Tex 180 TTSX. Bullets up to 250 grains, two buds of mine are shooting 150 grain Cutting Edge bullets and it puts a 35 caliber hole in the animal.

I do want to pick up some of those vortex Barnes 180 grainers. I'll probably try whatever i can pick up at the local gun store to see what shoots the best and to be able to save up some brass.

The Whelen, if the choice is between those two.

But for deer in Michigan, what you should buy is a 30/30.......

I can't see dropping below 225 gr in the whelen unless you want to plink with cast bullets.

"338 federal or 35 Whelen for a new hunting rifle?"

YES!





(Or an 8X57. Or a 338-06. Or a 9.3X57. Or a 358 Winchester. Or a 9.3X62)




(B)................. all of the above!

I do have handed down 30-30. It does work fine for deer in Michigan. But I do plan on doing some guided hunts in the future for other game and wanted kind of do it all caliber.

I do have handed down 30-30. It does work fine for deer in Michigan. But I do plan on doing some guided hunts in the future for other game and wanted kind of do it all caliber.