So it has been stated on the 'Fire.

How many rounds could they get off if we (SK & US) decide to do a preemptive strike?

I can not believe kim has developed his nuclear arsenal to the point that he can deliver artillery fired nukes. I know US Army Reservists whom were trained to fire tactical nukes from our 155s thirty years ago. I assume those shells are still in inventory. Though I would certainly hope their use be held as a matter of last resort.

With satalite imagery and our evesdropping capabilities, we muat know the exact location of every howitzer, rocket, or missile in N Korea.

Between every aircraft SK and the US could put in the air, every Tomohawk we could launch, and the artillery in S Korea, what is the chance we could eliminate the N Korean threat as efficiently as we did The Republican Guard?

I think it's impossible to stop Kim's wrath on S.Korea, he has too many locations to launch an attack...nukes not so much, but many will die with standard missiles/bombs

Think the question is if he or his generals have actually put together a real plan to attack SK, or just blustered about it - and does he have a delivery method ready for a nuke.

Only they know for sure, but if their nukes are so far just laboratory weapons, they may have a hard time setting one off in the field. Even dropping from an airplane isn't a trivial issue, and any plane headed south from NK is going to get shot to hell the moment it crosses the DMZ.

odds are he does have a bunch of nerve gas loaded on artillery shells, and they could kill a bunch of people.

They just tested another ballistic missile. Failed again..

Some of the artillery allegedly is on rails and can be rolled back into hillsides for safety.

I'd be surprised if NK has 10K artillery pieces that could range Seoul from the other side of the DMZ.

We're talking about 30 miles at the closest possible point.


Makes a good headline for the hand-wringers though.

Have to agree across the board with M.Marine. 10,000? -phffft- Hit Seoul? -phfft-

If the fat midget launches an attack the question is open regarding our response. I assume that if this occurs there will be American casualties along the Z. Seriously doubt the CIC will entertain an invasion by US forces and a conventional land battle. Would not surprise me a bit he would make a simple statement to the world and erase Pyongyang, the midget and most if not all of their ability to wage war and/or govern. The Korean peninsula would likely be reunited in the aftermath.

Mushrooms are the solution to so many problems in the turd world.

How do they roll it out if the rails are damaged?

Keep Kim's foot on the gas.

Yep, full speed ahead.

The Korean peninsula is too small for either side to think about nuking the other. It would be akin to napalming the house you are trying to burgle.

Lil'Un would use his nukes against Japan, and any of our forces he could reach (including Hawaii and the mainland if he could get his subs there) but never Seoul. He wants Seoul. He NEEDS Seoul. He would not make the whole of the south an uninhabitable wasteland. He already has one of those.

Without a doubt we have intel on what type or generations of artillery they possess be it straight tube or mobile rocket. I agree 10 K seems a hyped exaggeration but they do have the technology to give Seoul a very bad day.

I think a better question is do his generals have the authority, and the initiative, to cut loose if act one of the tussle results in chubby taking a dirt nap.

The little fat fuqk reminds me of Saddam Husein, He has no idea of the world around him nor does he have any idea of the military power other than what he posses.

He will try to launch on SK just like Saddam did with Israel.

He is going to be a problem no doubt but he will be dealt with in a very short period of time.

+1

Just noticed the cake. Happy birthday 12344mag!

Heard this same old gloom and doom rhetoric back in 1990. Facts turned out to be much different.

g

You got that rigbt. The little buggers elevator does not go to the top floor.

My knowledge of artillary is about thirty years dated. To my knowledge, even rocket boosted 155 shells do not reach 30 mile targets, Is this still correct?

Of course this leaves his arsenal of rockets and whatever missiles he has managed to make functional.

I remember reading somewhere that the Norks can drop 500,000 rounds of artillery on the South per hour, in the early days of a fight. With 10,000 pieces that might be almost possible, but I wouldn't think it could last long. No, I don't know crap about firing artillery.

I think we could win that war with a pile of cheeseburgers. Half that country is starving and the other half is worried about a firing squad.

You're still probably decades ahead. The Norks seem to be trapped in a shítty version of 1958.

A lot of the Republican Guard dropped their weapons and ran or raised a white flag. I personally don't think the Norks would do that. Way to brained washed or terrified of being caugbt.

j

We never dreamed the Iraquis would either.

We won't know until it happens. The Norks might drop their weapons at the sight of full bowl of rice. On the other hand, they might fight like the Japanese on the islands of the South Pacific.

North Korea seems to be in much worse shape than it was in 1950. I don't think China and Russia will be the allies they were in 1950 either.

Kim IL Fugked.

Chicom infused MLR's would be the main threat IMO with their range of 80-200 km depending on which mods were in use and would reek havoc for awhile until found and neutralized.

Having been deployed to the peninsula even though many moons ago I don't take their threats lightly especially dealing with a 1.5 million man army which BTW is no cake walk or easy task even with our overwhelming air assets.

IIRC, the OP mentioned "pre-emptive strike" and intelligence.
Sounds do-able to me.

Thanks Woody,

Is there any chance, with today's tech, that we do not already have each one identified and targeted?

Everyone seems to think NK would be a pushover. We were there 65 years ago.

The Middle East is a quagmire and our military's capabilities have them beat 100:1.

No war is going to be easy. I do believe if we can change the ROE and toss political correctness out the window, it will go considerably better. I'm not sure where that would leave us in the eyes of the rest of the world.

People have been killing people since before the first weapon was invented. I'm becoming more of an isolationist as these "wars for profit" are taking the lives of our brave men and women.

Controversy makes certain people a LOT of money. It will not stop.

I wouldn't go as far to say each one but I'm quite sure we have a good idea especially from our bumper to bumper Sat intel over many years.

I may be 100% wrong but don't see this escalating into an all out shooting war.The Norks would get their first licks in then know they'd be bombed back to the Stone Age.

I can't remember who it was that interviewed Saddam but he was asked why he throws his political enemies into prison and he retorted back that President Bush did the same thing here in America, the reporter told him that he was wrong and that people were allowed to criticize President Bush and they were not thrown into prison.

The look of disbelief on Saddams face was priceless, he had no idea that criticism of the president was allowed.

I think the little phat fuqkers world is just as small.

I don't remember if it was on Laura I, or on Hannity, or some other talk radio, but they were talking about these women who had escaped NK, and they indicated they would much rather die than face whatever being returned would mean. They also said it was not uncommon for NKoreans to risk being killed in the process of getting a bowl of food.

If we played our cards right, 'taking' NK might easily be a very simple deal; just get their persecutors out of the way first.

I don't know and I'm not certain the artillery pieces are mobile. I got that piece of information from someone who studied the nork's artillery capabilities.

My artillery knowledge is becoming dated too. I'm 13 years out.

But I'm guessing if he has 10K serviceable howitzers, (a big if), and if some of them are able to range Seoul, they would just about have to be set up wheel-to-wheel in a fairly small piece of real estate to mass fires on Seoul.

It would make a very lucrative target.

I don't think the winner of this dirty skirmish is in doubt.


The political play is, who will take in the (all ready) starving millions of generational indoctrinated refuges?

Ivanka?

Actually I'd much rather take in Korean refugees, at least they have a yearning to be free.

Besides, for the most part the women are gorgeous.

Does have the smell of Sadam back before the big sand storm(s).

"Yearning to be free"?


NK is a deeply structured cult of citizenry.

Winning hearts and minds won't fly (again).

Plain and simple, somebody needs to B1tch slap him.

How to do it with minimal harm to civilians is another story.

The Chinese, absolutely, do not want them on the monetary or cultural ledger.

SK is too long removed tribally and economically to reunite.

This is not on the scale of the (thousands) Syrians, Somalis , or Hmong "crisis"...

they should do a drill and evacuate Seoul


make sure lil Kim knows


does a feller good to sweat a lil

Ah, the vast bosom.

I listened to an Interview with a retired British Admiral a year or so ago. According to him we could cripple his military and country in less than 12 hours with almost exclusively precision strikes. Now I have no idea the damage he could cause in 12 hours.

Vast and deep.

They can hit Seoul with that artillery, and the slaughter will be grim and great.

Bush, and Clinton, and Obama had their way with our usual punching bags, delivering bombs and missiles onto Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan at will. Those countries can't fight back.
N. Korea can slaughter people in Seoul with conventional weapons, the likes of which we have not seen since Hiroshima.

I might be wrong but I don't think there's political solution to this one. I think fatboy knows he's a dead man walking and he's planning on going out with a bang.

That addition off the rambler, exactly how many sq ft is it?

2 days ago, Wheel to wheel, all in a row. Brilliant.







An A-10 Squadron's wet dream.

35 miles to the DMZ. No artillery made can do that.

When the Russian artillery surrounded Berlin....41,000 pieces of Heavy Artillery, all started at once.......

And the ROCs are not slouches.........

If anything the runt would make a wider DMZ....

and all of this threat stuff ignores the fact that South Korea has an army of it's own.

I read a report by a retired army analyst that was quite concise, in fact it was breath taking in the detail he reported about their strengths and weakness. We would destroy their military at the rate of 1% per hour . So it would take longer then 12 hours.

I would imagine that he has miles of tunnels along the DMZ , I think we are better equipped to handle tunnels based on a very recent event.

The artillery that scares me are the implacements along the DMZ. I don't know know the distance from the DMZ to the CBD in Seoul but I assume it is within artillery range.

65 years ago, we were fighting the Chinese. That wouldn't be the case this time.
The NORK army is large, though. I read that enlistments stay very high because the people are starving and the army feeds it's men well. Only the soldiers get their 3 squares. That's not saying it's a quality, well trained army, just that there are a lot of them.

That may have been viable in WW2 and up through Vietnam but those were pre-satalite days. Don't think we don't know every defensive fortification they have now and haven't been watching them move them in detail.

This.

South Korea has the wealth and resources to take care of itself.

Why is any of this our responsibility?

Again my knowledge is limited. I do not see Asian soldiers as similar to Iraqis. My understanding is that the Norks execute the entire families of those who would surrender, or even fail. If your family is truly on the line, you will not stop.

I wouldn't give the Iraqis that much credit. If the Rag countries ain't executing the whole family and their pet goat, then they just haven't thought of it yet. The Koreans may be tougher and better though. The ROK Marines were some of the best fighters in Vietnam.

If China really gets on board we can starve them into submission. About the only thing I think is a possible (not plausible) threat from the NORKS is an EMP. I think if we really decide to get it on we'll wipe them out inside a week with no significant casualties to South Korea.

No need for low altitude work when we can deliver CBU 105's by the truckload from the B1.
https://youtu.be/AEXMHf2Usso

https://youtu.be/myuZUxS3Uww

If that were so, why hasnt it been done, before he gets the nuclear capability, or is that what we are fixing to do?

How does a starving nation continue to have overpopulation? Regular folks cant be able to get good health care. How can they survive common illnesses along with starvation?

If Kim is a dead man walking and knows it, will he try and go out with a bang or sell out to keep his life and wife?

From the assessment I read it said they were out of range of Seoul but with rocket assisted shells could go 35 miles.

That weapon is incredible

The big boys don't want the NORKS taken out.

They outbreed the famine. They don't survive common illnesses and starvation.

Who knows what Kim will do as it's difficult to predict the actions of the insane.

"35 miles to the DMZ. No artillery made can do that."

Damn, you are right. I just looked it up. I have been saying, on this thread and elsewhere, for years that the North could decimate Seoul with artillery. I have read that in articles and heard it on the radio for years.

But those cannons can't shoot 35 miles. WTF?
Why are these experts on tv talking about the artillery danger to Seoul, when there is none?

Just got off a phone call with my cousin, Retired Senior Officer who was stationed in Korea for a while and my son who was in Korea last fall. Here are some comments regarding the Norks and their abilities...

1. Don't think the Norks will fight like the Iraqis. Much more dedicated to the cause.
2. In the event of an artillery exchange, Seoul will be reduced to ashes.
3. the nork's artillery is most certainly capable of hitting Seoul and that is where the problem lies.
4. By the time we could get rounds on nork positions, they would have been able to devastate Seoul .
5. We know where many tunnels are but we're not sure we know where they all are. Expect literally divisions of nork infantry to infiltrate the DMZ, via tunnels.
There's more but this should give some visibility to what we're talking about.

http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/united-nations-blocks-us-approach-to-north-korea

War is profitable for those in high places. It has become unpopular and there is usually an end to a war. This constant conflict is still very profitable to those same people and the timeline is indefinite. Just keeping those coffers full or we'd be long gone.

The biggest anticipated cost of a North Korean artillery barrage in response to an attack would be the at least partial destruction of Seoul. But the volume of fire that the North can direct against the South Korean capital is limited by some important factors. Of the vast artillery force deployed by the North along the border, only a small portion — Koksan 170-mm self-propelled guns, as well as 240-mm and 300-mm multiple launch rocket systems — are capable of actually reaching Seoul. Broadly speaking, the bulk of Pyongyang's artillery can reach only into the northern border area of South Korea or the northern outskirts of Seoul.


https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/how-north-korea-would-retaliate

Wouldn't it be much easier to give them our grain, pull out our troops, and let them invade south korea, and maybe japan? Whatever they need as long as they spare us.

Throw in the Kardashian women and Kaitlyn too.

Maybe china would like the Philippines, and russia could have the ukraine too. But we'd be safe right?

I have a coupla' INERT examples of the round / projo that the mossy old M 107 bugger tossed 21 miles with conservative charges.
They look like scaled up 168 gr SMKs, scaled up, bore riders, with a combo delrin and copper driving bands are just slicker than snot.

Will cut right to the chase here with an excerpt, and follow with a link to the M 107's whole banana in closing.



Lemme just opine that it's pretty common knowledge that ole Gerald Bull would work for, and sell his taper bore, duplex charged artillery tech to the highest bidder,...and their politics did not enter into the equation. In a word, the SOB would and could have sold to the Kim dynasty,.....and as well, his formulae and equations were floating around the arms trade world for years after his own particular expiry date.


Those guns deeply dug in on the NORK side CAN hit Seoul,...take that to the BANK.

Knowing where they are is one thing,....being able to take them out with any great ease, QUITE another. As I've mentioned before, attacking that system is commonly discussed in terms of MEGATONS of energy, whether conventional or nuke.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M107_self-propelled_gun


GTC

Personally, I'd just give them Alaska. Y'all have all that crime up there what with the raging Eskimos and suchlike and now we've got all these windmills and don't really need the oil. Give Putin Alaska and let Kanye go along with the Kardashians to put on his minstrel shows for Putin. He has that line of clown clothes he went bankrupt on, maybe he can revive that and the Rooskies will go for it.

Last chance to run and hide


http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/us-warship-approaches-north-korea-after-failed-missile-test

Only if he takes Kookafornia,Orygun and Warshington with it as a package deal. Just imagine Big Stick with a RUssian passport.

Thanks Aces and Cross for the links. Lots of great information there.

They could load nukes onto cargo ships, sail them into our ports and explode them.

I suspect every vessel leaving a NK port is monitored and would be sunk if it got within 1,000 miles of our coast.

Except for this 170mm piece. 60 KM max range. It was developed in NK specifically for that purpose. Koksan M-1978 170 mm artillery piece

Yeah but that is 27 miles , they have to go 35. How many of these weapons and how many shots do they get off before they are destroyed?

Counter-battery fire FTW.

Folks seem to think the US and S. Koreans will just sit there while being shelled.

Although they keep talking about artillery, I think the current threat is short and medium range rockets.

I think another problem is knowing exactly where they are because they're mobilized. I'm sure we could take out a bunch, but not all.

I seriously don't think people are giving the United States enough credit for its ability to wage war. Armies are founded on a number of things, but logistics and communication are near the top. Within hours of a conflict the NK will not be communicating with the men in the field--if that long. Every meaningful bridge, major thoroughfare, airfield, petrol supply depot, naval base and ship/submarine will be destroyed in the first day of conflict, secondary targets will come as necessary. Most assuredly, the leadership will suffer drastic reductions at the outset, including Kim. Properly placed MOAB bombs would take a heavy toll on artillery/tunnels near Seoul and would surely be simultaneous with the opening of conflict. Supply chains, such as they exist for the NK army would be disrupted--no one fights well without food, gas, clothes etc. Things that move of NK origin, will simply become targets. The conflict would undoubtedly begin at night, as the U.S. owns the night----by morning the conflict would already be moved to another level. We have yet to discuss the powerful SK army. How long will the NK fight without "leadership"? That might be the question. This is my take on it. Of course, YMMV

This is a map of the Korean DMZ. It is 56. 3 miles from Seoul. The could hit Seoul only with the rocket assisted rounds but then only if they were deployed on the very forward edge. That would be from the bulge in the line.

I figure the NORK's would try and push that bulge as to close the range. I also figure the U.S. and South Korea would turn that into a killing field and then cut it off.

Gotta figure that narcissistic cock sucker will try and run the battles himself, with no experience to do so. The same mistake Hitler made. Then you have to figure, when was the last time NORK forces went to real war. Was it 1953 at the end of the conflict when the DMZ was established? So nobody in the military of North Korea has any combat experience. The few little conflicts they engaged in do not prepare them for a war on their own soil.

We are in agreement. Great summary.

I was wrong on my part the range is actually 37 miles...didnj't do the conversion correctly. My apologies

I think NOrth Korean technology is behind the times and will lead to another mismatch , this will be another repeat of Gulf War 1 but even more soldiers will be killed on their side.

NK has left only one good option for the US, missile strike on Kim. Cut the head off the snake and avoid the drama.

having worked that AO for a year in a unit not to be named, i can tell you that we have had that schit dialed in for decades. ya there would probably be some problems south of the border but in short order he would see some serious schit coming his way. actually he probably wouldn't see a lot of it other than the effect.