Is this an old firing pin or is it the replacement firing pin for a M100 Winchester?

That my friend is an old style firing pin. I recently replaced mine and winchester is great to deal with. The new firing pin and guide look like this:



When you send it in you need to send in the bolt sleeve lock pin (firing pin guide) and they will send you a new style one with the new firing pin. Good luck.

Here's my post from a while ago:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5115576/1

Thanks BSA. I suppose I will start the process of getting a new pin and guide.

It's not a hard job to do and if you do it yourself they also send a gift card in the amount of $30.00 (make sure you save that money for an extractor though ). No just don't hotrod the m100 and you'll be good as gold with the extractor. I'm running 45 grains of RE 15 with 150 hornady interlocks (sp flat base), CCI 200 primers (large rifle), and R-P or Win brass. This load produces some very nice groups. Another word of caution, DON'T TAKE THE TRIGGER MECHANISM APART like I did. You'll have to make or buy slave pins and have a hell of a time getting the trigger lock mechanism in there right. The gas operating system and bolt that houses the firing pin is a breeze though. Looks like you already know that since your firing pin is already out. Good luck with it.

HAH.. They tried that crap with me once.. Without my knowledge or consent.. It would only work once, for 3$, and never worked again.. I called the stupid-azzed credit union whence it originated.. Told 'em I wanted the remaining money and they could keep the card.. NO can do.. Tried calling a couple times.. Finally got a robot voice that said I'd be charged $5 if I wanted to 'talk to a human being'..

I called Winchester - told 'em my problems and they were kind enough to take that card back and remit a check - which they should have done in the first place.. When I return an old firing pin now I specify in writing that I DO NOT WANT a gift card - send check only..

Sorry to hear you had problems. I just put mine in my name online and it worked great for me. The firing pin is working great too.

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I got the pin and guide today and put them in with no problems. I will try it out at the farm in a day or two. Thank you folks for the help with my new toy.

Good deal, glad to hear it. Good luck with the old girl.

I took her out today for a while to sight in a new Leupold 3.5x10x40. I was shooting 150 Hornadies behind 42 grains of IMR 4895 in L.C. cases with WLR primers. The preliminary groups seemed quite promising.

I did have one failure to eject. The extractor actually tore a small chunk off the rim of the case. Several other cases showed marks from the extractor. I don't think the load is too hot. It chronoed around 2500 f/s. What would cause this? Could a rough chamber cause this? How is the best way to polish the chamber?

Any other suggestions are welcome.

I looked more closely and found a broken extractor. I don't know whether that is the cause of the problem or the result of the problem. I have several on order from Numrich.

There are two variations of extractors - dependent upon the S/N of the rifle..

I hope you obtained the correct one..

But the reason it broke is because the chamber's fouled/rusty and it's holding onto the case - not a good thing when that bolt IS going backwards.

A complete disassembly's really the best way to get at the chamber to clean/polish it to a mirror finish. You must do that/have it done before you fire it again..

I thought that the chamber may be the problem. How is the best way to polish it?

Numrich has extractors for above about 119,000 and below about 119,000. Mine is about 25,000. I have ordered three of the below 119,000 versions.

High-speed 3/8" drill with either a brass chamber brush on the end of a short section of cleaning rod, then wrap some 0000 steel wool around the brush, add some (in my case, cutting) oil and run that setup into the chamber at high speed for 30-60 secs... Remove, wipe clean, check the results, and do over if necessary.. IF you have some surface rust in there that won't come completely out with the steel wool, then chuck up a section of 1/4" dowel, slit the end and wrap up some 400-600 grit paper; enough so that insertion is 'snug', then add oil and polish again (do not hold in one place, move in/out while in motion)..

Clean, reassemble, and test fire.. Make SURE you run a cleaning patch down the full length of the bore before you test fire to remove any/all oil that may be in the bore..

Perfect..

Thanks

I polished the chamber as instructed and installed one of the new extractors. Installation was quite easy. I will give a range report as soon as I am able.

I'm sure you are going to really like that rifle. Looks like it should be ready to rock and roll now. If you find your load is too hot you can always try my load of 45 gr. RE 15 in winchester or R-P brass, cci 200 primers, and about .020" off the lands. It works like gangbusters in mine.

I hope the load is not too hot. All the manuals I have read indicate that it is quite mild. I settled on the load as one for my Springfield M1A and got it from the Hornady #7 in the service rifle section for .308. It is about 1.5 grains less than the max for service rifle and a lot less than the max found in the regular section. It chronographed at about 2500 f/s. I appreciate any suggestions if you think this is to hot. I have some RL 15 and may give your load a try.

I've always heard you should load the winchester model 100 like it wsa a "service model M1A" so your load should be just fine. I had the same thing happen to my m100 a few months ago. I was running 47 grains of RE 15 and everything was looking good (no real noticable pressure signs). I fired 130 of these loads through it and then started having the same problems you experienced with the extractor. Upon dissassembly I was checking everything. I had already polished out the chamber so I knew that wasn't the problem. I polished the gas piston too. Everything was working great up until the 130th shot from the stiffer load. When I was looking at the bolt face, I noticed a hairline crack going thru the center of the extractor and called my gunsmith and I bought the correct extractor and replaced it myself. I dropped the charge of RE 15 powder down 3 grains and started working up. I found another sweet spot at 45 grains and that's what I settled with. I realize I'm losing about 100 fps but the deer around here will never notice a difference. As long as it's safe, functional, and accurate that's all I care about. Good luck with yours.

Gentlemen: What is the expected turnaround time from Winchester for the recall firing pin assembly? Thanks.

I got mine in about a week. They wanted the old pin and the serial number. I was impressed with their speed.

11 days for mine. I used priority shipping too. PM'd fatjack earlier.

I am excited! Any of you cats have a link to an actual rifle schematic? Not just a list of parts, but the pictures too? I learn that way much faster...BELIEVE ME!

Disregard...ain't Google grand???!!!

http://www.wisnersinc.com/exploded_views/Winc-100.htm

Back to the drawing board. I tried her today and had several failures to extract with reloads and some military rounds. I will try it with some commercial factory loads after my next round of tinkering. I suppose I will do some more chamber work and replace the extractor and plunger with another one of the new ones I got from Numrich. I don't know of anything else I can do.

I do have a question about what stops the forward motion of the operating rod.

The end of the operating rod has the cylinder into which the gas bleeds in from the barrel to work the action. The forward end of the rod extends a small amount out the front end of the threaded gas tube onto which the gas cap with the little retainer screws. Screwing the gas cap all the way until it stops pushes the cylinder back a little. With the cap screwed in, the operating rod's forward motion is stopped by the cylinder hitting the gas cap. Is that the way it should be?

If I unscrew the cap a little, the retaining does not fit and the operating rod's forward motion is halted by the pin connecting the rod to the bolt. That seems like a very fragile way to stop the forward motion.


I polished the chamber and neck again and put in a different extractor. I tried to put in a new plunger that holds in the extractor, but the new one was a little too long. I will try some factory loads next time out to see if I can not get her running right. Any suggestions are always welcome.

Ok so it fires with the new firng pin. No problems there?

1. Make sure the extractor slides back and forth easilly. Sometimes you need to file or hone just a little off the sides so it slides freely.

2. Make sure your gas piston is NOT pitted.

3. From what I could tell in your pic, your chamber didn't look like it was too bad judging by the condition of the fired case. Therefore, I don't think it is your chamber you should be concerned with.

4. Make sure the gas cylinder cap is TIGHT, then put the retainer in place.

5. This may sound real dumb, but make damn sure the port in the barrel is not plugged. Use a torch tip cleaner or similar tool to clean the gunk out of it.

6. Polish the outside of the gas piston and then clean the heck out of the inside of the gas cylinder. Make sure the piston slides in and out of the cylinder smoothly. You don't want any slop in the fit of these two parts, if there is one of them or both may be worn too much. Lightly oil these parts with something like rem oil. When I say light I mean a little spray and then whipe most of it off. Don't need a lot of lube there, but just enough.

7. Usually if it is jamming or failing to feed you have a problem with the magazine but from your description it sounds like it just isn't extracting.

8. After you do all this, try some cheap factories like the rem corelockts (150 gr.). It should function with these without a hiccup. By the way, Redneck is the professional here so you may want to pm him and he will probably further assist you. Good luck with it.

Thanks, BSA. I do have a problem with #4. The gas cylinder cap is not tight at all when the retainer notches are lined up with the notches in the stud on the barrel. It can be tightened about another 1/16 of a turn before it becomes tight. I have to back it off to get the retainer to fit into place. The cap is quite loose.

The problem does not seem to be getting the bolt to the rear but rather pulling the case out of the chamber. The rifle jams when the next live round tries to feed into a chamber occupied by a partially extracted empty case. The last round I fired today stayed in the chamber while the bolt locked to the rear.

Numrich has Winchester extractors and replacement extractors. The one I put in for today's shooting was a replacement extractor. I put in a Winchester one today when I got back from the range and will try that next trip.

The loads I have used were some of my reloads in LC cases and a Greek military surplus round a fellow shooter gave me. I have a bunch of Win/Rem/Fed factory rounds I will try next time. She may not like military cases.

Thanks to you folks for talking me through my attempts to get the old girl running right. I appreciate the help and may need some more in the future.

No problem, there are some very knowledgeable people here on the subject. Redneck was probably busy today or something, but I'm sure he will chime in when he runs across this thread again. He'll point out where I may be wrong too . Let us know how the winchester extractor works out for you. It's strange the retainer isn't fitting correct. That is with the little ears facing to the rear of the action isn't it??? Make sure you check the actuall gas port in the barrel too as they will not function properly if it is plugged. Let us know. The winchester model 100 is a sweetheart to shoot when everything is working as it should. Good luck to you with it.

This is the way the cap looks with the retainer in place.


This is how far the cap can be screwed in with the retainer removed. Notice that the shoulder on the gas cylinder to the right of the barrel lug is tight against the barrel lug in this picture.


This picture shows how much play there is between the gas cylinder and the barrel lug when the gas cap is screwed in all the way. Notice the gap between the barrel lug and the shoulder on the gas cylinder.


This picture shows how far the gas piston extends beyond the front end of the gas cylinder with the gas cap removed.


The gas cap with the gas plug staked in place. I assume the position of gas plug was adjusted at the factory and then staked in place.

I want to get her shooting right by October so I can run into this fellow with a rifle that works.

Your're on to something here. That doesn't even appear to be the correct cap for the pre 64 type or maybe mine is incorrect, but either way it is different than mine and mine is definately pre 64 (made in 1961). The gas cylinder is susposed to slide into the gas cylinder housing which is an integral part on the underside of the barrel. When the gas cylinder stops securely against the shoulder there should be proper alignment of the gas port in the barrel and the hole in the gas cylinder that makes the gun function the way it is susposed to. If there is slop there or the gas ports don't line up you will have problems. My cap has many slots cut in it so I can rotate it until it is tight and then put the retainer in the one it lines up with best. If it were mine the first thing I'd do is check to make sure the gas port's line up, from there I'd check out all parts to see if parts are worn past their usable limits. I'm thinking something is really worn out or someone stuck the wrong cap on that rifle that's why I'd start precisely measuring things. Now I feel like tearing mine apart just to check some things out, I've seen caps like yours and like mine. Also they make different plugs for the 243, 308, and the 284. That may be where you problem lies (somone may have put the wrong plug/cap on your rifle if it's ever been replaced). My best educated guess.

The cap on mine is made of two parts, a sleeve and a plug. The plug is screwed into the sleeve and is held in place by staking them together once the proper adjustment has been made. The single set of slots should be all that is necessary if the adjustment is proper. My serial number is around 25,000. That puts it in about the same time as yours.

How is the forward motion of your slide stopped? Mine is stopped by the gas piston hitting the inside of the gas cap. I don't want to change things around so that I put that stress somewhere it is not supposed to be.

The gas ports seem to line up fine. The gas port in the barrel seems fine.

This gas cap could very easily not be original. The old gentleman who had it was known for messing with guns. He was the one who had a beautiful 1911 made in 1918 chromed.

I have been able to get another .308 gas plug but have not found any new gas caps. A new slot would be easy to cut in the one I have if that is necessary. I certainly do not like to start cutting on things unless I know for sure that nothing will be damaged.

I understand that. What I'm saying is the plug may not be correct for that caliber (308), as they had different plugs for each rifle cartridge made for the 100's (243,308,and 284). The whole assembly is different than mine, but I think mine was original. They had problems with some of the originals and made the change to the newer style like the one you picture. I have no problems with mine so I'm keeping it the way it is. I'd examine the new plug you have for the 308 and see if there are any differences. May just be like I said and the wrong cap/plug installed on your rifle. One thing I do know is it isn't going to work for chit being loose like you pictured. The shoulder has to be snug up against the integral gas cylinder housing. It can't be sloppy loose there or your gas system will fail to work properly.

I tried her out today with some Winchester factory rounds and had no problems. I also tried several of my reloads that did fine also. All dozen rounds I fired fed and ejected as they should with no strange marks on the rims.

I had replaced the extractor with a factory one and had also replaced the gas tube even though the old one looked exactly like the new one. Looks, however, can be deceiving.

I will do some more shooting soon and hope I run into no more problems.

I am still curious about what stared the problem in the first place.