My friend had an accident this morning while hunting. He was using a Smith and Wesson model 1500 in .270 Win. He has used this rifle for many, many years with no issues. He had 4 rounds in the rifle and was shooting at 4 hogs. He killed the first 3 hogs and the rifle exploded on the 4th shot. He may loose his rt. eye. He is having surgery in Tyler in about 30 min. His son has the rifle and in an attempt to figure out what happened has tried to open the bolt with a small sledge. He hit it hard 20 or so times and it will not budge. He said the rifle had exploded in the magazine area and the wood surrounding the action. We are all very curious what happened.

1) He does not reload and shoots only factory ammo.
2) A couple of years ago he purchased a .308 and shot it for a while but sold it. Other than that, this is the only caliber he owns.


The barrel was unaffected. He plans to take it to a gunsmith and have him try to determine the cause of the malfunction. What do you think???

Does it seem plausible that the 4th round was actually a .308 and that the 30 cal bullet could not make it down the .27 cal barrel and therefore the weak spot was the action? We are all really curious, and hopefully we will eventually know for sure, but I am curious if any of you have suggestions that may help us arrive at the cause. thanks in advance.

from the info you ahve give I would say you maybe correct, but what parts "blew up" if the bolt is still closed on action , just debiere from the gas ports on the action ?

Sounds like a over load or a barrel obstruction, if the barrel is still attached to the action you may have to cut it off.

If it was a factory round, do not do anything to destroy any evidence. Leave everything as is until you can have it examined by a professional. A case head separation is what it sounds like. And trust me, a .30 cal bullet WILL make it down a .277 bore without much fanfare. Don't ask me how I know!

Precisely! A split in the case in or next to the web area of the case due to a manufacturing flaw can cause this. Used to be rare and from what I've read is now very rare indeed. But you want to preserve the evidence in case it is. You want an independent expert (in the legal sense) to be the first guy to open the action. Or do anything to it for that matter.

Don't forget to preserve and maintain a chain of custody for the remaining ammo and empty cases if any.

I'll go with Malm on this. I have seen a few like he described and no problems.

Who would be a good example of an "independent expert"?

H.P.White Laboratory. Their phone number is 410-838-6550.

Our prayers are out to your friend.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...001_750051_757983_-1_757978_757978_image

It could have fired out of battery by cycling the bolt. He needs to check into this.

tb,
That notice is for the i-bolt action. The op's dealing with a Howa action. They also had a recall that had to do with the improper reassembly of the bolt. Had to send mine(S&W 1500)in for a new shroud although I never had a problem.

The 1500 like other bolt actions cannot fire out of battery. If it had he would be wearing the bolt.

As Malm said have a pro check this out. It might have S&W on it but it is a Howa. Sounds like a case head separation.

Not saying it did. Just wanted to let tb know we're dealing with a differant beast.

Here's info on that Howa recall anyway:

Howa Machinery Ltd. of Japan is performing a safety upgrade on all Model 1500, 1550 and 1700LS series rifles manufactured between 1970 and 1993.
"The affected rifles bear serial numbers from one of the following series on the receiver: PN00010 through PN87159, LS00001 through LS05150, M000001 through M020422, LS10001 through LS10309, B000001 through B028450.
"The safety upgrade will replace the bolt sleeve to prevent misassembly of the bolt, which might occur on affected rifles. Such misassembly might result in a hazardous condition in which the rifle can be accidentally discharged without the bolt being fully engaged, causing severe injury.
"These rifles were distributed by Smith & Wesson, O.F. Mossberg and Sons and Interarms. These rifles may bear the distributor trademark.
"Stop using your rifle immediately and visit our website at www.regen.com/howa or call Howa at 1-800-456-5131 to receive a Bolt Return Kit.
"Only the bolt sleeve is being upgraded. Your bolt will be returned to you after the upgrade.
"NO OTHER HOWA RIFLES ARE AFFECTED. CHECK YOUR SERIAL NUMBER

I too would speculate on a 30 cal slug. Let us know what the results are.

interesting on that recall i did not know than and have 2 s&w 1500s

hope your friend is ok. you got some good advice. have an expert open it up. if it was a 308 in there you will have to chalk it up to hard lesson learned.
probably not a barrel obstruction as he shot 3 times before the blow up.
kinda points to the recal.

You ever wonder why a lot of bolt handles jump when you dry fire the piece? It is because the cocking notch notch is misaligned when the trigger is pulled causing the coking piece to ride the angled side of the nocth as it and the firing pin moves forward into the fired position. In order for the firing pin to move forward with enough inertia to fire the weapon, the notch has to be aligned with the groove in the receiver. This level of alignment is only possible when the bolt is in battery.

You can pull the trigger and release the striker assembly at any point during the closing of the bolt, but only when the lugs are safely engaged will there be a clear, unobstructed path for the cocking piece to move into the fired position.

And even so, the bolt on this gun was in the closed position when it blew. That's why they were wanting to open it.

30 cal. slug would never chamber. Oh, and it will fire partially in battery.

Aw geezuz. A .308 round will chamber up just fine in a .270.

I think it may even fire often enough. If it does fire the bullet may make it down the barrel. It might disassemble the gun too, but I am with Malm on this, as likely as not it will make it down the barrel without wrecking the gun and/or the shooter.

+1

Yep .270 is 30-06 based and a .308 will fit no problem.

Sounds like case head separation

Update. My friend is out of surgery. Turns out there were not 4 rounds in the rifle after all. Here is the way it actually happened:

Friend had 3 rounds in the rifle. Killed 3 hogs. Reached in his pocket and loaded 3 more rounds (from the top) and bolted the 4th round in the chamber. Aimed and pulled the trigger. That is when the rifle exploded. Surgeon said he removed a piece of primer cap from the rt. eye. I can only assume that the primer cap came from one of the cartridges in the magazine.

Rifle definitely did not discharge before bolt was closed. My friend remembers aiming at the 4th hog and pulling the trigger.

Case head separations are bad period, but, that is the worst case scenario. The case comes apart and floods the loaded magazine with white hot gas, with the potential to ignite everything in it's path. Your friend is very lucky.

Shooting glasses would have saved a lot of pain and suffering and maybe an eye.

RAN

Prayers to you and your friends family

Regarding shooting glasses, I was thinking the same thing. I sometimes wear them during recreational shooting, but never during hunting, except pheasant hunting. Are there any shooting glasses that are head and shoulders above the rest? thanks

Found out that my friend rested his rifle on some kind of 2x4 (maybe a feed trough) and had his left hand on the same 2x4 rather than the forearm. Might have lost his hand otherwise. These things really make you think about safety.

Any pictures of the blown rifle?

My LGS has a .308 he pulled from a Remington. The gun was fine once he unlocked it.

When was the Howa/Vanguard recall, & what was the cause? If I recall correctly, it had something to do with accidental discharge.
Jim

prayers to your friend

I have to wear glasses anymore and I had a pair made with just my distance script. They are titanium framed safety lenses. Works great and give that extra bit of safety. My prayers for your friend. Would like to know what the cause was when you find out.

Many years ago my best friend and i were going doe hunting here in Pa. In the morning,he asked if he could use my Browning BBR 7mm Mag instead of his usual Rem 700 30-06.Of course i obliged and we headed into the woods.We met back at the truck for lunch and neither of us had seen anything and he decided to take his 30-06 out for the afternoon so i grabbed the 7mm mag and went on my way.Later in the afternoon,i took a shot a doe and the rifle almost disintigrated in my hands.After a few minutes i was able to regain my senses and tried to figure out what happened.The bolt wouldn't open so i picked up all the parts and went back to the truck.The entire bottom of the action and floorplate had blown apart and the stock was in 5 pieces.When i got home that night i but the barreled action in a vise and had to use a 3 lb sledge to open the bolt.Once it had been removed,i discovered that my friend had chambered a 30-06 shell by mistake and it has indeed gone off and the slug did exit the barrel.Other than the damage to the gun,i lost some hearing in my right ear permanently but had no other i'll effects.I'm thankfull to this day that Browning made such a strong action otherwise it could have been worse.I also learned never to trust anyone else in loading one of my guns.

Years ago I saw of listing over caliber cartridges that would chamber behind lesser caliber barrels. If anyone has a copy, it would be a most informative post.

I don't have it here, but it is in Jerry Kuhnhausen's Mauser shop manual. I believe it is reprinted from SAMMI.

This recall is for the iBolt.....the gun in question is the 1500 that is/was manufactured by Howa and is also called the Howa 1500 and the Weatherby Vanguard (I think).

My thoughts are with your friend and his family! He might be lucky to "just" lose an eye! Scary stuff!


Chris

My opinion is there was an excess build up of pressure when the .308 bullet started into the .270 throat.

The .308 cartridge, being shorter and leaving some space around the case, near the shoulder and neck, allowed this high pressure gas to escape around the outside of the .308 case and flow back into the action. The case collapsed instead of expanding and sealing the chamber.

This is assuming that it was a .308 chambered by accident.

Prayers Sent.

http://www.remington.com/pages/news...notice-Remington270-150Gr-SoftPoint.aspx

Remington has a recall out on some .270 ammo over-loaded to dangerous pressure levels.

My step son managed to chamber a 308 in a 25-06 Browning single shot. It seems the bullet headspaced on the chamber throat to allow it to be fired. Rifle was destroyed as badly sprung, scope is probably in orbit as it was never found. His left thumb which he had on the scope while shooting ( think he had been adjusting the variable) is shorter by one joint. Most of the escaping gas appeared to have gone upwards . Fortunate to have had no eye damage. Two kinds of ammo on the bench at the same time in unmarked lead shot bags.

Is this what your talking about? http://www.saami.org/specifications...afe_Arms_and_Ammunition_Combinations.pdf

You're kidding me. You are NOT supposed to fire a 9mm Luger in a 357 Sig??? Ain't nothin' sacred?

Prayers to a speedy recovery for your friend.

I am skeptical that a .308 Winchester round would have contact with the firing pin, unless the rifle captured the head, i.e. controlled round feed as in pre 64 Winchesters. I am not an expert but since the cartridge headspaces on the shoulder it could be a little too far forward to receive a good blow from the firing pin...

Also, the .308 Win is quite a bit shorter than a .270 Win. and is obviously not a good match, but mistakes do get made...

Just some thoughts from afar, I am not familiar with the S&W 1500 rifle.

.270 and .30-06 are basically the same case, except for neck dia.

I know some people who have tried to re-chamber a .308 to .30-06.

A .30-06 reamer will not clean up a .308 chamber, unless the barrel is set back. There is a slight shoulder left in the chamber, near the location of the .308 shoulder. Body taper might be a little different, too.

So, this makes it sort of unlikely that a .308 was fired in the rifle, as I posted above, unless a lot of pressure was applied to chamber the .308

.308s will fire in a .270 . The body taper of the .308 will stop it at the same point in the chamber as where a .270 cartridges shoulder stops it . I have worked on two rifles that had this happen to them , and have heard of several others . It doesn't happen often , as most people have enough sence to use the right ammo . Your bud has a little more to learn about guns evidently ! I hope he doesn't pay too high of a price for his mistake .

Interesting. I shouldn't be surprised. I knew they had a problem with the short mags early on, being able to chamber a .300 in a 7mm and such.

Good to know. Makes sense since the parent cartridge is the same from the rim forward.

These are ALL made by Howa.

I run oakley glasses as my shooting glasses. All of the lenses are ansi tested and they are used by the military for this same purpose. check out their website and watch the ansi testing the spike test and the fired object test(round ball) really get you thinking of what can and does happen if improper eye protection is worn. I even use my oakleys while cutting the lawn and weed whacking. My echo weed eater can really sling some stuff. I watched a small rock coming right at my face this past summer and tried to pull a Matrix move to get out of the way and the rock still smacked my oakley lense. plus at work I have had multiple pieces of 40 s&w bounce off my oakleys. I would have been in the hospital from that rock if I chose not to have the oakleys on that day. It hit dead center in the lense.

I don't think the body taper stops it so much as the larger bullet getting jamed into the neck of the chamber. Same results either way, primer/base held firmly againt the bolt face. Ouch!

Scarily enough I had somebody do this with a pistol of mine. Ran a whole clip of 9mm's thru a glock 357 sig. He said it sounded funny and "kicked weird" but out of 12 rounds 9 of them fired. Nobody lost anything and the gun still works fine. What is that they say about god watching over fools?

You can add do not fire 6.5x47 Lapua in rifles chambered in 243 win. Some guy came to shoot on my range one day. He picked up one of my loaded rounds to examine it while he had a hand full of 243 rounds in his other hand. He sat down one of his 243 rounds and took my 6.5x47 rounds out of my reloading room, took it out to my bench, and fired it. Leaves an interesting no neck case.

Yes, that's it. Thanks,