Posted in hunting rifles forum, but thought I'd try here too....

Wedge it open gently, a rubber doorstop can be handy for this, and flush the crack with acetone to degrease it. Inject it with a good quality epoxy and clamp it up in a padded vise. After its all cured relieve the tang so it doesn't happen again and shoot it happily ever after.

On a hairline crack you will likely not be able to open the crack to inject it. NO soaking with acetone or anything else. Here, carefully mask the crack, and continuously coat it with WEST epoxy with slow or extra slow hardener, over and over, wet on wet, until no more will soak in. Remove the tape and scrape off the excess before it completely cures.

Gently warm the stock too, to induce the epoxy to wick in. Not too hot or you'll mar the finish too.

That crack looks larger than what I'd call a hairline, that's why I suggested the wedge.
At any rate and whatever you decide go slow and be careful you've got good advice here.

It does indeed - does it extend through the wood to the inside of the stock? If so, my approach is different. I would Dremel along the crack from the inside making a "trench" staying well clear of the outside of the stock. Extend the groove one diameter of the groove past the end of the crack. Fill the groove with reinforced epoxy bedding compound. Be sure the wood is well wetted with epoxy, you can't just pour it in and expect the best bond. Then work on the exterior surface. You have sufficient strength inside the stock so the exterior repair can be cosmetic only.

The idea is to relieve stress and replace a possibly weak area of the stock with a stronger material well bonded to good wood - make it stronger than it was.

Finally figure out why it cracked in the first place and address that. Keep in mind that wood tends to shrink over time, the bedding may need to be relieved. For instance in the first picture the mag box may be too tight. In the second the tang may be causing a stress riser into the wrist. For the tang I'd probably drill into the wrist (from the inside) and epoxy in a piece of carbon arrow shaft. Prettier and more effective than any pinning job.

I have a custom Mauser .458MW, also with a crack behind the tang.
This stock has an oil finish and the steel was kept oiled while it was in storage many years before I acquired it.

If I can't use acetone to flush and dry out the stock prior to applying the epoxy, what do I use?

Thanks,

Ed

I am not a gunsmith but I do repair musical instruments.
I would gently wedge the crack open and inject #20 CA into the crack with a #26 or 27 hypodermic needle and clamp it.

Stewart-MacDonald sells tinted CA. Their Vintage Amber #20 would be perfect for that stock. Done carefully you would never see the repair and no refinishing would be required.

Depends upon how old the crack is. If it is fairly recent I wouldn't fret about flushing it out. If it is an old crack that has accumulated a bunch of grime and oil, that is a horse of a different color. After wedging it open (if possible), I would mask the heck out of the outside of the stock, and also tape plastic sheeting of some sort to cover the whole bloody thing. Give it a good blast of compressed air to dislodge the big pieces, then inject acetone or lacquer thinner into the crack and then blow it out again. Let dry thoroughly and proceed with the epoxy protocols described above- all good ideas. Clamp it, wipe off any squeeze-out, wipe everything down with alcohol or vinegar (so as to not dissolve the surrounding finish anymore than you may have already done). Remove the masking/plastic and double check for any traces of epoxy remaining around the surgery site. If you are lucky, careful, and the gods are smiling upon you, you won't have much if any touch-up to do on the finish. If you do, no big deal. Determine what the finish is and get back to us.

As stated above, I'm afraid too that the crack will never be totally invisible after repair. But, form follows function.

As for using cyanoacrylate, I never had good luck fixing cracks in gun stocks with it. May have been my luck, or lack thereof. I'm a firm believer in epoxy for such things.

Unfortunately, it's an old crack. Not much "grime" present, but definitely oil soaked.
I have no idea what oil was used on the steel nor the stock. The rifle was built ~1956/7, right after the .458WM was released, so I'm guessing it's linseed oil.

Thanks again,

Ed

Glass bed the action and forget about the crack. At the very least glass bed the front lug.

So, there're five woodworkers backed into a corner and someone asks them the best way out. How many different answers?
Seven.

I'm figuring at least ten.

Ed

That crack looks like it would be easy to get to from the back of the bottom metal inlet.

I'd see how far the crack went. I'd drill holes thru the crack from inside the inlet, hopefully to fully encompass the crack. I'd then work Acraglas Gel (brown dye) into the crack, making sure I got the gap fully filled.

Then, I'd patch the finish with Tru Oil. To fully eliminate the crack, you'd have to refinish the stock.

I'd glass bed the action to stop any future movement. I'd be sure all stress was relieved, leaving a slight gap behind the bottom metal and behind the tang.

DF

I'd be surprised it you could wedge it enough.

Acetone will strip the finish.

Drilling out the crack from the inside, not getting into the surface seems to be a better option.

A full refinish will be needed to make it look perfect. Glass bedding to arrest any more movement.

Wonder what round?

DF

good advice. hit it on both sides from the inside and build a little bridge over the crack and forget about the outside. and figure out where its tight and relieve it.

.458WM

Action was already glass bedded sometime in the past. Don't know if it was before or after the crack appeared. Original owner and gunsmith who built it are no longer with us, so I can't ask them.

Ed

Yeah, and they will probably all work just fine. Pick the one that suits your abilities and sensibilities (technique). Me, I have trouble making pretty structural repairs from the finished side and prefer to do that from the inside. Then I can get as fussy as I want on the finished side because it's cosmetic and it only has to look good. With practice you can make the cracks all but disappear without refinishing.

You can cut a horizontal groove across the crack from the inside, lay threaded stock in the groove with Acraglas Gel. Once you do the squeeze with the padded vice, you have almost a cross bolt without disrupting the surface. The threaded stock will hold the glass. The crack can't spread.

DF

I have had luck with using UNWAXED dental floss to work the Brownells accraglass mix (no floc) into the crack - like flossing between teeth. It might work in this case.accraglass is thin and flows readily unlike accragel no need dye in this case. good luck with it. Mel

Any decent epoxy will do. You don't have to use Brown-give-me-all-your-money-ell's.

Acraglas Gel works great, isn't that expensive. The proven performance, at least to me, is a valuable consideration. And the Gel is easier to use than the original product.

The Gel fills in the gap and is very strong. With the brown dye, it'll match the surface finish fairly well. By wiping off the excess after the "squeeze", the gap is filled, not perfect without a refinish, but good enough for a using gun.

After drilling the crack with a drill like 1/8", rotating and pivoting the bit until the entire crack is cleaned out, I use a paper clip or a small piece of wire to work the Gel into the gap. The big "squeeze" with a padded vice is the trick.

And the internal cross pin will strengthen the fix even more.

DF

The main thing I don't like about the Gel is its viscosity. Having spent half of my working life in a custom wooden boat shop, and in my own shop, I have forgotten how many 50 gallon drums of epoxy we went through. I know from epoxy- but that's not to say that I can't learn some more. One thing I do know is that a better bond to wood will be effected if the wood is wetted out first with un-thickened epoxy which will soak into the surface better than thickened stuff will. Then, stir in the thickening agent (I use colloidal silica- the same stuff that people assume is "fiberglass" in the Brownell's kit) and proceed with the bedding/repair/glue-up on top of the wetted surface(s). This isn't germane to the question at hand re: filling a crack, but is something to think about when doing other projects.

I prefer mixing cotton flock with standard composite epoxy resin. Really tough abrasion resistant (and structural) stuff if heavy for filler use. Definitely need to wet the substrate first, good idea always. Kinda overkill for fixing a stock though.

When I worked in the Browning gunsmithing shop we used epoxy to repair cracks, the crack was prepared and the epoxy was mixed then both the stock and the epoxy were placed under a heat lamp. This warmed the wood and spread the crack slightly while thinning the epoxy. Once the epoxy and stock were warm the epoxy was applied to the crack and back under the heat lamp. The stock was carefully observed when the epoxy was just about hard the excess was carefully scraped off. A rag with rubbing alcohol was used to wipe the surface, if done carefully the repair could be leveled with the finish and no refinish would be required.

Now, that sounds like a good idea.

Brownell makes an Acraglas solvent that I like. It cuts the epoxy and is good for cleaning up.

I'll have to try the alcohol trick.

The Gel is sorta thick, but with a gap cut thru the crack, it does go in with a wire/paper clip. Its consistency really fills the crack. I've used the std. and the Gel, prefer the Gel.

If someone was going to try to wedge the crack a bit, the std. product would probably be better. Those cracks aren't that easy to wedge open, IME. The drilled out gap assures good coverage of the material and the Gel doesn't need wood to wood contact.

DF

Gel, or any filled epoxy, is the wrong viscosity for soaking into the crack. Use an epoxy specifically developed to penetrate wood, like WEST (Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique) epoxy.

Do you try wedging the crack?

DF

With the WEST product, it's not really an issue,...the stuff WICKS.

Can't say that I see gel as much more than a SURFACE application.
...and like G said,....there ARE better and more affordable products than that B-team stuff.

"Acraglas Solvent ?" brownells doesn't "Make" that stuff, they buy it in bulk re-package and quadruple the price.

It's sold as "epoxy thinner" everywhere else. Just regular toluene, I'd guess.

GTC

Thanks for that info.

WEST looks a lot easier than what I've been doing.

From what I've learned on line, the WEST system is for boats and such, I don't see it offered in a small kit suitable for fixing a cracked gunstock.

I'd still put in the hidden cross pin to reinforce
the repair and I'd use the Gel for that.

DF

We have some VERY capable and learned wood smiths that decry the use of metal in epoxy repairs,....and I CAN certainly see the value in using arrow shaft, fish pole, and my own personal fibrous, and somewhat absorbent choice,.....BAMBOO.
Chinese takeout places HATE me,....I only go to the ones with the good round sticks .

That said, I DO use a lot of stainless TIG filler rod,....I prep it by spooling the appropriate machine screw thread sized die on, loosely fitted, and than, holding the die, swill beer while the lathe does the grunt work,....Voila!,...Stainless "re-Bar" !

No comebacks on any stock repairs yet, for more years than I really care to acknowledge.

Liquid acraglas, thinned with that evil smelling "thinner" makes a damned good preliminary "Soak",....but a word of caution, it DOES seem to accelerate the cure,...so all ducks in a row is (as usual with any bedding) the order of the day.

Ed,....take that stock and plunk it in a piece of ABS sewer pipe, or a rocket storage tube,....fill it with NAPA's diatomaceous earth based floor dry and stick it in the HOTTEST spot you can find,....agitate periodically.
That big ML's stock, and MANY others have had that ride here,....and does it ever pull oil ! I just leave em' out in the Summer,....that black ABS, or OD green cardboard gets too hot to hold.

GTC

Here is my technique for what it is worth. Many times you can't open a crack without making it worse or only minimally, so getting epoxy in very deep is tough. I use original Acra glass or any quality "thin" long setting epoxy. As already mentioned long set is key and much stronger. I use a shop vac and tape the nozzle to the off side of the crack. They usually go all the way through. Seal it as best you can. Mix your epoxy at at least 70 degrees so its thin, thinner the better. Start the vacuum and start feeding the epoxy in on the off side. You will know right away if its going to work as it sucks it right in. I use a toothpick for small cracks or a small syringe for larger. The vacuum will disperse it through the crack. When it is all the way through and dispersed, remove the tape and hose. Clamp it. Never had one fail yet.

12Oclock. Like that vacuum idea. Thanks.

Any cyanoacrylate believers for this, such as Satellite City red?

Open the area under the crack with a Dremel and use a #4 screw with JB weld(no head) Drive it in and relieve the wood/metal interface a bit
Carefully sand the existing crack and apply finish and it should be near perfect

I think those dry too fast for what is being proposed. Like someone posted, the slow driers are the strongest. And you'll need work time to do the vacuum trick.

DF

Good question on the cyanoacrylate drying too fast for crack repair, especially if in contact with wood or other porous material. I mix it with wood dust to repair checkering diamonds. Not much open working time after it touches the wood dust. Repairs take seconds then you can recut the diamonds in minutes. I would be afraid it would dry before I could clamp the crack closed.

Thanks, Greg, I'll give it a shot.

Ed

I use West System exclusively in my shop. The last bottle of yellow glue I had dried up years ago.

West System isn't just for boats. It's good for what ails you. A West rep told me one time that all epoxy resins come out of only a couple spigots in the U.S. What makes the different manufacturers different is their proprietary hardeners.

West System markets a "repair kit" for a couple bucks with enough stuff in it to bed a couple rifles, fix a dozen cracks, or glue your girlfriend's lips together while she sleeps. It contains resin, hardener, colloidal silica for thickening, and popsicle stick for stirring.

Where can I get this West repair kit? Sounds like the ticket.

gnoahhh,
What he said >

Ed

I want one, too.

Sounds a heap easier than what I've been doing; I'm basically lazy...

DF

Here is one place to get them. There are others, I'm sure. I found this in 30 seconds via Google. I use West System in much larger quantities, but occasionally buy a repair kit to keep in my mobile tool kit. When I do so, I get them at a local marine distributor.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...p;familyName=WEST+System+101+Repair+Kits

Ironically WEST epoxy is available at the West (not related) Marine store.

Having spent many years working in the adhesive industry (not epoxies), I would like to warn against taking any actions such as thinning which are not specifically recommended by the manufacturer. If you thin an adhesive, in nearly all cases you weaken it.

Adhesive manufacturers of repute such as the WEST people employ skilled chemists to develop and produce their product. They have a far better feel for what works and what does not than any end user, especially casual home hobbyists. Use a thinner which is not appropriate to the adhesive and you run the risk of making a bad situation far, far worse.

WEST and System Three are two very high end epoxy manufacturers and you can (properly) use their product with confidence.

Yes, never thin epoxy or add anything to it not specifically recommended by the supplier.

Thank you very much!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That ought to be carved in stone.

Check this out.

Here's a discount store with really good prices.

They also have Marine Tex, used by many for glass bedding.

It's the West 101 Repair Kit that we want, I think...

http://www.discountmarinesupplies.c...+to+Search.x=26&Click+to+Search.y=10

DF

Thanks, great link!

Take note that the repair kit comes with fast hardener. For repairing hairline cracks (or most repairs, for that matter) you really want the slow or extra slow, especially in warm weather.

Agree on slow being better for this application and slow is ofter stronger.

What kit has slow/extra slow hardener?

Still looking.

DF

What is considered slow? 30 minutes, 1 hour.....?????

West has three hardeners,

205 is std.
206 is slow
209 is extra slow

I'm gonna call tomorrow and ask some questions.

DF

I just use fast for everything. The slow isn't that much slower, and the fast is slow enough to allow plenty of time for glue-ups. Just today I glued up a 5x12x4"deep box with dovetailed joints with 205 West System- wetted out with one ounce of glue, mixed a fresh ounce and thickened it, applied it then clamped it up. It was still liquidous when I got around to cleaning up the squeeze-out.

The thing with any epoxy is it'll "kick over" (set up) quicker in large quantities, or in deep quantities- deep meaning, say, an ounce of it in a dixie cup will harden waaaay quicker than if that same ounce were spread out thinly on a pallet. Mix it, spread it out, and take your time getting the glue-up done right. (I'm not advocating a leisurely approach to epoxy glue-ups though. Have all your tools and clamps laid out ready to go, have done a dry clamping run ahead of mixing the glue, and don't allow any interruptions. A steady pace wins the race.)

We used the 209 "Tropical" hardener in the boat shop on really nasty hot summer afternoons, outdoors under a blazing sun. Even then, if it was normal smallish repair/glue-up, the fast stuff was ok- but you had to shake your butt and git 'er done!

So, you're saying go with the 205 hardener that comes with the West Systems 101 kit...?

DF

I would.

Thanks, gnoahhh.



JG,

The best price on the West Systems 101 kit that I've found is the link I posted. That may be the way to go for your cracked stock.

Just me, I'd still drill a few holes thru the crack from inside the inletting to facilitate getting material way down in there. If you have a turkey injector or something like that to inject the material, then let it wick into the crack before compression in the padded vice.

Be sure you got some solvent or that injector will be toast.

You may want to get epoxy solvent when you order the kit. It will come in handy cleaning up.

Let us know how it works out.

DF

You're probably right DF.

I sure like the sound of letting that Shop Vac do the work though, like 120 said..... Also wondering if that rubber door stop wedge would give a very slight bit of relief if wedged in there?

Lot's of good ideas here. Much appreciated.

To wedge it, I'd think you'd have to drive a chisel into the crack just enough to gap it slightly. I don't think a rubber wedge will do it.

The holes would assure material getting all the way down to the bottom of the crack.

You'll have to work with it and do what seem best.

Shop vac sounds interesting, especially if it works, just haven't tried it.

DF

If you have a mill hold down set, a 1/2" bolt and a coupling nut will make a fine mini jack.

The Poles have a name for this, though I can't spell or pronounce it, but it translates roughly to "pissing in the soup".

A wealth of information...

Don't ya know, it'd take Poles to critique Red Neck engineering...

DF

If you've never tried it, you're going to be AMAZED at how well the shop vac stunt plays out. Dishwashing gloves work really well as the "mask", and good old duct tape as well.

GTC

You dont put the doorstop in the crack itself, you push it down in the trigger opening enough to SLIGHTLY open the crack.

Sheesh, a simple tight crack and all the sudden we're into chisels and drills and headless screws.

I was well aware of that Kid, but thanks anyway. I've found this thread very enlightening personally, and am happy to hear various ways to skin a cat.

Red Neck engineering knows no bounds, something for everyone...

Hey, if it works...

DF