I've been trying to get an answer for this for a while, and hope someone here can help.

I have two rifles that, when the muzzle is tipped straight up then straight down, I can hear a cartridge sliding back and forth in the magazine box. If only one cartridge is loaded, there is no movement; however, if more than one is loaded, there is fore and aft movement ending in a metallic "clink" as the cartridge impacts the side of the box. I have two other rifles of similar design, and neither of them do this. The two with the issue are a M70 and M98; the two without are a M70 and an MRC 1999. All four rifles feed flawlessly, so it's really more of an annoyance than anything else.

Any ideas for how to stop it?

Thanks.

RM

I am certainly not sure But I feel the sliding brass in your magazine is related to leak spring tension. I would order another magazine spring before hunting season. Life is full of regrets why push the opportunity on letting a real dandy get away.
ABLE

Not a smith but out of curiosity what kind of M70?

I would bet part of the problem is an ill fitting magazine box.

Featherweight. But I have a M98 that does the same thing.

So many M98's..... There are different lengths of M98's,too.

And M70's. Generally Winchester stopped making boxes matched to the cartridge in 1964 and everything since has been a "one size fits all" arrangement. Take a look at Rules book on the pre 64 M70 to see what I mean.

On M70 Classics and other after 1964 they may have generic boxes to fit (say)30/06-270-7x57...mostly OK but not really perfect.


Have no idea if that's the problem but worth checking,along with spring tension of follower but have to admit I have never seen a cartridge sliding back and forth in the box like that.

That's what I'm thinking.

Thanks for the replies and ideas. I'm going to take things apart this afternoon and see what I can find.

By the way, this clearly could have been "user error" as well. I didn't notice any movement when I first bought the rifle - it may have been there but I didn't notice it - but certainly did notice it when I reassembled after the rifle and I received a thorough drenching a several months ago.

So here's the question: Is there a preferred way to put the magazine box back in once the action is place? Drop it in then screw on the bottom metal? Or press the box into the action first, then put the entire thing in the stock and screw on the bottom metal?

I guess I've never really given that any thought before.

So here's what's happening. I loaded three cartridges in the magazine, seating them firmly to the back, and closed the bolt on an empty chamber. I tipped the muzzle forward, then slowly opened the bolt. The cartridge resting on the left side of the follower (with the muzzle facing away), which would have been the second from the very bottom of the magazine, had slid forward to the front of the magazine box. I cycled the action to eject a cartridge and once again closed the bolt on an empty chamber, leaving two cartridges in the magazine. I tipped the muzzle down then again slowly opened the bolt. This time it was the cartridge resting on the right side of the follower that slid forward. I assume that the friction of the bolt held the top cartridge in place each time. So, in effect, the only two cartridges sliding are the two that are resting on the follower itself. The only thing I have done to that rifle is put Dyna-Tech Gun Shield on the exposed metal. I can't imagine it has made the follower so slick that it won't grip a cartridge.

Any thoughts?

I thought I'd read and posted on a thread similar to this. Still no resolution on that thread either. But I have an idea. I'll post if it works.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10746790/1

"One size fits all"???? My parts book lists 14 different magazine boxes for the Classic M70 - although a handful just designate between blued and SS...

IIRC, the pre-64 had a total of 8 boxes..

Are they both 7X57's? The reason I ask is because I have a Mark X Mauser that was converted to7X57 from 30.06 and it does the same thing. However, dummy 7X57 rounds loaded into my M70 270 Classic do not slide around.

Lee I have found the pre 64 boxes work better. But I'm not a gunsmith.

In general my experience has been the pre 64 is not as prone to function issues as a Classic.

Again I am no smith but it must be the box, the follower or the spring tension that is causing the OP's problem. Neve seen a pre 64 do something like that.

Something doesn't fit right......

My first item to check in the OP's issue would definitely be the mag spring.. I've seen a few so weak that it would barely lift the last round into position - but the spring had been 'modified' at some point by the (or a previous) owner..

A proper mag spring tension should alleviate his issue..

The difference between the pre-64 boxes and post is related mainly to the difference in the action feed rails between the pre and post actions.. ..

I am NOT a gunsmith, but have experienced this exact problem. When trying to get a 300 WSM to feed in a Model 70, I experimented ALOT with different follower shapes and magazine box widths.

I found that if the mag box was too roomy width wise, by having too big a window cut in it, cartridges slid around as the OP describes. Shape of the follower and magazine spring strength also contributed, as in if you put in an obnoxiously strong magazine spring it stopped the sliding - but also caused unfired rounds to auto empty from the magazine if the bolt was racked hard. FWIW the best follower shape was Winchester's original (to the WSM) aluminum follower, I tried a MRC and Ruger follower and they did not work as well.

I don't see that the OP mentioned the cartridge he is working with, but if the follower or mag box was originally meant for a cartridge with a different taper or width, the rounds bellow the top round can definitely move around.

When I initially read this, I wondered if the OP had accidentally assembled the rifle without the mag box in place- I made this mistake once and discovered it when I heard the cartridges slopping around as I carried the rifle.

Seems like the cartridge specific magazine boxes and followers ala Mauser were more than just German OCD.

Yes, both 7x57. The Mauser is a Zastava (same as Mark X/Daly/etc) and the other is a M70 of new (SC) manufacture. My Montana Rifle Company ASR (7x57) doesn't do this, nor does an older M70 FWT (pushfeed). I may just put a strip of duct tape on the follower to keep the cartridges from sliding around. As I said, they all feed flawlessly; this is just more of an annoyance than anything.

Don't use redneck engineering that will just create more problems.
Try adding some spacers under the spring to increase the tension.

Nah, I'm not going to Bubba it. But I'm wondering about the spacers: where would they go? Both ends of the spring slide into slots milled into the floor plate and follower.

Might try the shim on the bottom of the mag spring next to the floor plate.
Have you tried another spring in the Mauser?

I have not tried another Mauser spring yet as I don't use that rifle very often. The M70, though, sees the field at least once per week. How would you suggested crafting the shim? A wooden wedge? A steel wedge? Toothpicks or coins? (don't laugh, I've seen worse). I'm curious as this may be the simplist solution until I contact Numrich Arms for magazine spring replacements.

Thanks

RM

Might start with a cut up soda can then work up to larger shims.

I had the spring raised about 3/16 of an inch. Those cartridges just keep slip sliding around. More shims until it stops? My BIL has the same gun, so when he gets back in town I'm going to take a look at the set-up of his floor-plate/spring/follower. Other than spring tension, I'll see if there is any difference.

A temporary fix might be this: Since it's the base of the cartridge that makes the sound as it settles against the aft side of the magazine box, I might just attach a small strip of my wife's very thin craft foam to the back of the box with double sided tape. There's enough room between the back of the follower and the back of the box so the foam won't interfere with anything, and that should keep things quite until I can either figure this puzzle out or send it off for someone else to figure out.

Do not put anything foreign in there. It may go from annoying to unusable. It wouldn't surprise me if the DGS is the issue, or at least exacerbating the problem. You have a 7x57 in a box designed for the 30-06. There is wiggle room in there.

uh -huh... there is that.

There's that "one size fits all" thing going on.

Have a CZ 7x57 like that,I just seat the bullets way out there and have no problem. It is also throated to take the cartridges that long.

Pic of loaded cartridge.



Rifle.