I bought this rifle off the Campfire Classifieds some months ago and it arrived as advertised. Between work and other projects have not been able to attempt a sight-in until this past weekend.

After firing an initial shot at 25 yds, the rear sight was raised to bring the point of impact closer to the target. Another shot, not much change. The rear sight was again raised to near the absolute limit for elevation travel. Another round at 25 rounds resulted in a centered hole some 4 inches low. Okay, lets try a group at 50 yds...after a great amount of dirt and dust, it was found that the 50 yard groups were 6 inches low and slightly right of center.

I am not a rookie at this sighting in game, as I keep all my weapons zeroed at the desired distance. Finding out that the "new" Winchesters are not even able to be zeroed with the factory sights is quite disappointing.

Sure, it can be fixed with a new rear sight that has more elevation adjustment, or a lower front sight, but one should be able to expect that the basic sights issued with a new (not cheap) firearm would be capable to zeroing within "minute of barn door".

Add to this that horrible trigger and the ugly cross-bolt safety, and I have new candidate for the most despised gun in my collection. Look for it to be on sale soon.

Reloads or factory? Same issue with a Marlin 45.70 and reloads, and down the road it went.

Sorry, I should have specified the load- Remington 240 gr. factory loads.

my 450 timber carbine has XS front and back from the factory and shoots fine. if you want to fix your problem, you might want to go that route.

Yes, I have looked at the XS Sight solution, as well as having pondered a scope mount and scope for accuracy evaluation purposes. Where does the money pit end and success begin?

i have mine set up with the scout scope. never did anything with the trigger but i agree it is horrible. quite frankly, all of my 94's feel kind of junky in the trigger/action and i've had them from the 30's to the 2000's. i just kind of accepted it. the only reason i keep the Timber Carbine around is because it is just so dang cool to look at and carry. shooting it is an exercise in punishment though.

Williams rear peep might work for less money than the XS system

One of my hunting buddies had the same issue with the same winchester .444. He ordered a lower front sight to get it worked out. He was a bit disappointed at first too, but that fix worked out well.

there is additional adjustment using the " V " or aperture. Loosen the two tiny screws that hold the v on and go up or down slightly if one notch of the elevator is too high and the next notch is too low. a little humbug but it works. Is the v missing? the base has a rough stamped v that the aperture fits onto but it needs the v aperture installed. Most win. M94's have this style sight. Mel

melchung is right on and maybe a load change to a heavier bullet is in order. I am old enuf to see that focus issues on the rear barrel sight points to mogwai's suggestion as a damn good idea. best of luck. The only thing perfect in the world today is an apple given to you by a friend off his own tree. Mag Man

Thanks, Gentlemen...the little V plate is indeed installed and maxed out for height. I realize a lower front sight would help, but a factory fresh rifle should be capable of being zeroed with the issue sights. I don't expect perfect, but I do expect serviceable! It is going to get a scope mount and scope, an accuracy check, and then a determination about permanent sights vs. sale will be made.