I was just reading the Patagonia DAS thread below. I love mine, I'm on my second. They are nice! I just talked my brother into getting one. I heard Patagonia was trying to stop caribou hunting in Alaska. Is that true? If it is, I think I would rather give my mnoney to a company that isn't anti-hunting. Does anyone know if Sporthill, Lowa, Petzl, TNF, or any other big backpack hunting companies are anti-hunting? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just don't want to help the anti-hunting movement.

You're thinking right Milt, let us know what you find.
Pretty sure REI and Backcountry.com are anti-hunting.
It won't stop me from buying from them, but it does make me look for someone that is supportive first.

I doubt if Sporthill is anti.
Patagonia and TNF I would believe to be, whether or not they admit it is another story.
I'll stay tuned...

I don't see a link to the thread that Milt referenced.

What are you guys basing this on?

Personally I don't care if Patagonia's corporate policy lean to anti-hunting... I buy their stuff and take pictures of me with dead critters. (emailing them Patagonia is an option ).

Like this one ("Porn-Star Camo" as Dober says):

REI sells hunting licenses here in Colorado so they can't be all that anti-hunting. I can say that the one by me sells licenses so infrequently that they are challenged to do it.

However the cusotmer service person bailed out my buddy who had forgotten his hunter safety card back in Illinois. She went online looked it up at the Illinois DOW site and printed out the necessary information for him so he could get a license... at Sportsman's Warehouse. She didn't appear to be a hunter but not a hint of anti-hunting came through and she certainly went out of her way to make sure he had the legal opportunity to kill fuzzy animals.

I've also worked with REI at the corporate level and if that is their policy, they don't seem to make a big deal of it.

It seems they are on both sides and I like there stuff at (least when I find something big enough),

I know they support with $$$ the work Trout Unlimited and groups to protect native trout with World Trout� Initiative grants.

But years ago I applied for a IT position they had open in southern California they seemed like a surfer company that was pro protecting the environment and never mentioned a anti hunting bias but it seemed to be there...reading there web page 10 years ago gave me that feeling..

I am a huge fan of Patagucchi. However, that they show no hunting in their catalogs nor make anything remotely resembling camo, my thoughts are they don't see us as the market force we probably are.

Everything I bought in a pro deal 14 years ago, I still use and the stuff still looks like it did when I bought it. It might be expensive but the stuff works and lasts ...I love my pataguchhi.

On more than one occassion while on the phone with Patagonia customer support I clearly told them my intended use for their gear - backpack elk hunting in the Rockies. Never a hint of discontent. If anything, they appeared interested.

Grantid, this is at a personal level not corporate. I am very interested in seeing proof of an anti hunting stance by Patagonia corporate.

Brad, nice pic. I guess you didn't get the memo that one can kill nothing without camo gear

Many of the backpacking/climbing companies are not anti-hunting even if they don't advertize to the hunting market.

I have never had a problem reviewing gear from TNF, Mont-Bell, Petzl, BA, Black Diamond, Go-Lite and many others for the hunting market. Yet with the exception of Big Agnes, I don't recall seeing advertizing in a hunting magazine.

Some of it is a lack of undrstanding of the hunting market and the belief of many specialty outdoor shops that the "Hook & Bullet" crowd are all a bunch of beer swilling road hunters that don't spend money on high ticket gear. Of course those that have that atitude couldn't be more wrong.

I was a hard goods buyer ( basicly all the gear and a bit of the technical clothing) for a specialty outdoor shop. The owner, even though he is a hunter never thought the hunting market was one worth persuing. I explained to him many times that the hunters were the customers that had no problem buying the Bibler tents and Western Mountaineering sleeping bags where as most of the cross country skiers and many of the backpackers were only interested in low end gear. He never really got though.

My take was that serious hunters were used to spending hundreds if not thousands on optics, rifles etc, and understood the concept of buying high end gear.

A couple companies owners that were main stream specialty outdoors saw the light and now are very focused on the hunting market. These being Dana Gleason of Mystry Ranch who founded Dana Designs and Kifaru's Patrick Smith who founded Mountain Smith.

So, IMO there is more of a lack of understanding rather than a actual anti hunting stance with most of these companies.

I believe there was a thread a couple years back about this. Someone asked is they were anti, I belive the answer was yes. As since they all want us to buy their gear and most of it is pretty good, they probably will not want to piss off the bunny hugging, Birkenstock wearing granola eaters by having pictures of their gear in hunting situations in their catalogs.


ML

Most of the climbing companies are not anti-hunting, they are pro-environment which is a good thing for us. This thread comes up once a year or so and no one can provide a link of them trying to stop hunting. As for REI I have hunted with managers and I know one of the higher ups is working on his grand slam.

Not everybody wants camo either, I know I dont. They probably dont market toward hunters because the ones that use high end technical gear are few and far between. When it comes down to it they make plenty of money with out having to re-tool and pay trademark on camo fabric.


My R2 has spilled some blood........

I have been hunting in their stuff for a good while. But just like everything else it seems like their quality is going down hill. Old standup pants, shorts, the old style fleece was tough as hell. The new ones don't hold up nearly as well.
Still tough to beat against most other peoples stuff. Chouinard is a huge trout fisherman and bonefish fisherman. Don't know if he does any gun hunting, but he was big into falconry in the 60's and 70's.

I know Sporthill isn't anti hunting, they have a line of clothing designed specifically for hunting. As for REI, I could care less if they are anti hunting or not, they carry top notch gear at a good price, stuff I can't get at 99% of the sporting goods stores.

a few years back when montana first planned to revive bison hunting outside the park, Patagonia was offering to buy the permits from people so the did not kill a bison....seems anti hunting to me. This was in many of the local papers at the time.

copied the following form an online Buffalo Field Campaign newsletter.


"We also have some great news: Patagonia has agreed to pay the $75 fee for every buffalo kill permit secured by a BFC supporter that isn't used. THANK YOU PATAGONIA for always coming through for the buffalo! Applications must be turned in to Fish, Widllife and Parks no later than 5:00 pm MST on January 3, 2005. The drawing takes place on January 7, 2005, and if your name is drawn, you will receive a phone call from FWP. Stay in touch with us! For FWP's information on the canned hunt visit "

>>Does anyone know if Sporthill, Lowa, Petzl, TNF, or any other big backpack hunting companies are anti-hunting?<<


Looking at the Lowa website I would feel confident to say they aren't anti-hunting.

http://www.lowaboots.com/catalog/ShowBoot.cfm?StockNum=2108860492&Category=2&Type=M

Also, I had read about the response of Patagonia to the buffalo hunt. I got the impression they weren't anti-hunting in general as much as they were not wild about the herd-reduction plan that they saw as a canned hunt. I'm not defending Patagonia but that was my impression.

I love Patagonia. If they are anti-hunting, they certainly have assisted me in my comfort when killing animals. Capiline is good stuff. Have about 20 years worth of hero shots with all sorts of wildlife carnage with Patagonia clothing being worn. The grey windproof fleece jacket is 16 years old and I still wear it, the bottom picture was from the 2008 season. I especially like the added touch of a Montana Traditional Bowhunter's cap with 300 Mag kills..

Just did a little digging on the subject and found a few websites that had there stand on the subject. They weren't against the hunting part of it but the park service's stand on the free ranging of the buffalo. There was pressure from ranch owners about the buffalo grazing in there winter grounds for cattle. The yellowstone heard of buffalo is the largest natural heard and patagonia wanted the park service not to cave to pressure from private land owners.

That was my take on it. If you see something different would love to hear it. Maybe they were just anti government

Greenhorn, it's always a pleasure to see you post, especially your pictures. What a hog of a mulie ! How big is that thing ?
I've got a few thousand dollars worth of Patagonia stuff too. Love every bit of it. Has allowed me to tolerate and hunt conditions I never though possible.
Brad, I think I have the same top. A merino wool base layer ? E

I wear a lot of patagonia also, and will continue. Love the micropuff stuff. Just posted the buffalo info since the question was posed. I think whatever the intent, it is a fine line to walk when you offer to buy a permit for a legal hunt so that the hunt does not take place. I do believe that these guys are smart enough, even if they don't support hunting, to not be overtly antihunting. They do enough market research to know that hunters use their stuff. Probably not the majority by far, but losing any market segment is bad for business.

I'm pretty sure the Patagonia guys hunt..

I prefer the "blue" capilene.

Or some of the merino wool they make..

The buffalo hunt is even more contentious than so far explained. Ranchers outside Yellowstone are more concerned about brucellosis transmission than forage competition, and that was the big reason for the hunt. Now ranchers are pointing at elk as brucellosis vectors (and they are, to a degree) and asking for control in certain areas. Transmission of disease between more resistant wild ungulates and more easily managed domestic livestock is complex in both epidemiology and policy--but, as in many areas, there is pressure on govt. to do something, anything. Ranchers asking that elk be controlled are also saying that wolves are destroying elk populations and need to be controlled, which is not wholly off the wall but puts the agencies in a strange kind of bind when budgets are low and diverse feelings are high.

I don't believe there are any real clear solutions, but it seems best to keep wild animals wild, give them some room, and keep management minimal. Which brings up another point--that buffalo out of Yellowstone are highly habituated to people and traffic, creating the risk of a public relations fiasco for hunting like the one a few decades ago where buffalo were mowed down by rifle hunters the minute they stepped over the park boundary. These recent hunts were well managed with hunters carefully briefed and spaced out over broad areas away from roads and over a long season. The habituation issue will go away soon enough with that kind of foresight. I'll probably start putting in for a bison permit soon--when I can afford a third large freezer.

I respect Patagonia in large measure for their environmental ethic, which has led, I know, to some substantial and needed donations for fisheries. Go into the Dillon, MT outlet during the annual sale, and many of the shoppers are hunters. I do note that Patagonia is bringing out more and more drab colored clothing, e.g. the whole tan and OD DAS line, and I doubt that's coincidental in a company as aggressive, profitable, and customer service-oriented as Patagucci.

Please do put on anything credible about opposition to caribou and other hunting. For my part, I'll communicate with Patagonia before I turn my back on them. I have to hold myself to the same standard that I hold my kids to--if you don't speak your piece early, you sure as s__t don't get to complain later.

Definately pro habitat.

http://www.patagonia.com/email/09/012209.html?sssdmh=dm23.111209&src=012209_htm

Thanks for the info. Thats what I was looking for but it was hard to pin point a real "why" threw the articals on the net.

A little off the topic but since several brought up habitat protection, how do you guys feel about Cabelas "Trophy Properties" ? Running adds like "ripe for subdivision", etc. I have personally seen 3 areas that allowed hunting previously sold to wealthy individuals that prompltly put up the no trespassing signs. One was suddivided and now has many homes. I know this made the paper a while back and Cabelas made a donation to montana fwp to get on their good side. Seems like this although not antihunting is certainly not pro habitat and conservation. I still wear patagonia , but have quit shopping at Cabelas.

Ditto--with the exception of a couple items I can't get elsewhere. It's now my last choice. I had one of their credit cards, and I'm replacing it.

Cabela's was genuinely apologetic and said some very nice things to FWP, but time will tell if their "agreements" with buyers mean anything at all. A one time donation is paper clip money to a company that size. If they donated a significant percentage of their revenue (as Patagucci does) every year to the block management program or habitat, I would feel differently. Some of their explanations also rubbed me wrong in that they were doing a lot of rationalizing.

Fact is, I know a lot a people in the outdoor equipment and conservation fields, and Cabela's spends its money on expansion, not conservation or hunting access.

Once again, I'd like to compliment FWP for engaging Cabela's on this.

Now, if I just didn't like their outfitter camo microtex and berber fleece so much, I'd feel better--or at least more self-righteous.

While plenty of people who wear Patagonia clothing might be anti hunting, I've never heard of anything coming from the company that is anti hunting. They do put alot of money into environmental causes. As I recall, Yvon Chouinard (founder and ceo) is an avid fly fisherman. They make great products and stand behind them.

Many die-hard fisherman, especially some (NOTE: SOME!) fly fisherman are definitely anti-hunting, so I wouldn't take Chouinard's fishing hobby as definitive proof of his stance toward hunting.

My guess is that Patagonia as a corporation goes out of its way to avoid being either pro- or anti- hunting. I would surmise that many, even most, Patagonia employees are anti-hunting.

Like many "liberal" companies, Patagonia has a military line, and many folks here scored some great deals when it all went on sale. I love my alpha green R1 pullover! Companies aren't afraid to make a buck.

The dull colors seem to be more in vogue now, with many companies. Maybe that's an attempt to market to hunters, maybe the result of a push against "visual pollution" and maybe it's just that those colors that are in style. I find it hard to believe that's the result of an attempt to market - in a clandestine manner - to hunter. Whatever the cause, I'm enjoying it. I prefer quality, non-camo but drab-colored clothing.

Every piece of Patagonia gear I have is still going strong, except for one - a bathing suit that lasted about 15 years, including years of surfing in Hawaii and kayaking in Colorado. I re-sewed the velcro numerous times before my wife caught me by surprise and threw it out!

I was reading their catalog a few days ago and it had a caribou article. I think I threw it out but I'll have to look.

I'm the guy who started the thread. Everyone, thanks for the responses. What a wealth of information and articulate responses. I was ready to walk away from the company, but it certainly sounds like that would be a mistake and I will continue to purchase from them in the future.

I've read articles on avoiding mosquitoes and such that would suggest the drab colors are partially to avoid "visual pollution", but also for the fact vivid colors seem to attract bees and mosquitoes. For bees, it's more that you're like a bright flower, and for the mosquitoes, it's something to do with the contrasts of dark and light colors.

I did see a camo fishing shirt in the spring lineup...

They have a line of fishing gear, so I would think they are not Anti. Most groups that are anti are also anti fishing. Just because they don't promote hunting and go after the hunting market per se,does not mean they are against hunting.

It would be a tough line for a company as this to adhere to. I am sure there are alot of their customers that are anti, and more that are neutral on the subject. If Patagonia started to sell camo, pictures of customers holding dead critters on the website it would surely nip them in the butt.