I surf this forum more than the others. I know this type of thread has been somewhat re-hashed many times. But with changing technology and advancements in the last two years or so, wanted to know if the thoughts on shelters has swayed one way or another.

Followed some of Dan's posts on tents recently. Read about the hammocks too.

I am finally moving to the Spokane general area. I sitll don't know where as I have two potential jobs still pending and one guaranteed in the Colville, WA area.

I intend to fully use the Nat'l Forests where I wind up and get out there and cover some ground. Be it solo, with dog, or the wife.

I have lurked at Kifaru for years. I have never used one of their shelters. They have many, many great reviews and Kifaru proud users. I also see many are getting cheaper tipis and installing stove jacks in them.

I am not at all bothered by a no floor design. Or at least I think I am not-never used one. And as tough as I would like to come off, I think I am very cold blooded-meaning I do not sweat while I eat at the buffet. And I don't think I will be shoveling the driveway in a T-Shirt. Certainly will take me a while to get acclimated as it's over 70 deg here in El Paso this am. I see NE Washington is 33 deg

I see many of the hardcore are moving towards tarps and that's it. Think I would like a bit more of a shelter than that. And even though the pack may be a bit heavier, I am all about training and getting in better shape.....by lugging a heavier pack(I think).

So can I, or we, get some thoughts on the better 1 or 2 man shelters for Western hunting/backpacking? I am aware that there differenced in 1 man and 2 man shelters. But I need to accomodate the above or be flexible enough to do it.

Are Kifarus ParaTipis with stoves THAT great?

Are they worth the $1000 for the combo?

Is the trade off for the extra 2-3 lbs of weight work out for the warm shelter/better sleep/piece of mind?

No stove: golite utopia or golite shangri la 2. Better still: an 8x10 tarp, pitched as a lean-to or a-frame in the woods. Open ground requires something else, barring a ground-hugging hiking pole pitch of a tarp.

Stove: hard to say. I'm thinking the shangri-la 3 or black diamond megalight would work great, but a tall guy might be brushing head and foot on the wet walls. I have the shangri-la 4+ and it's plenty long for 6+ footers.

I have the Paratipi and small stove combo, and would cost you less than $1000, more like $750. They list as a 2-man shelter, but no way would you fit two comfortably, in my opinion. I have only used it once, so take my review with a grain of salt. I will be using again in a couple weeks for 4-5 nights for CO deer season. Then I think I can come up with a real-life review. The first time out with it, I found the design pretty poor, and too darn small even for one. I call it the biggest small tent. The thing really is quite spacious, but useable space is nill. The darn stove is pretty much dead center, so when using as a single-person shelter, you are stuck to one small side. I was constantly in contact with the wall of the tent while sleeping, unless I was on my back. Not good if condensation is happening. Getting in and out of the tent was a pain. It seems to be wonderfully built, and is a high quality product, but no way it is worth the asking price of $507, not in my opinion. The stoves are quite nice and heat the shelter very well in my limited use. I will really find out how well they heat in a week or two. Assembly of the stove is pretty easy, and even I can have it together, ready to burn in under 10 minutes. I think a tent and stove combination is a must in the fall. I wouldn't go without the stove. If I had to do it all over again, I'd buy a Go-lite tipi, a stove jack from Ti Goat, and a stove from Kifaru or Ti Goat. There may be others out there. After reading several posts here about sewing in the stove jack on the Go-Lite shelters, I think that would be the way to go. My opinion may change after 4-5 cold-weather nights in the Paratipi, but right now, this is where I am at.....

Brent

I've got a Kifaru Supertarp which is a like a door-less Paratipi. Adding an annex you get the front door/vestibule and a better stove location. Simple to pitch in various ways, light weight at 16oz, ton of room for one person. Best? Probably not but everything has trade offs.

I used a Scarp 1 for sleeping on an 8 day elk hunt this season and it works fine. I would not want to "hang out" in it for extended periods but that's why I bring a tarp for cooking, etc. Scarp is a floored shelter and can be set up free standing or not. Light and easy to pitch.

Jesse, Long time since talking.
You probly know my opinion, but will throw it out there for what it's worth.

For a solo shelter there are numerous options such as those mentioned above. and a stove boot can be added to any of them fairly simple. But for a multiple person (or animal) shelter for packing and using a stove it will narrow it down quite a bit. I'm gonna talk comfort for ME not just a tarp or somthing but a shelter you can survive in no matter what. Comfortable for me is out of the weather warm and able to get dressed not curled up in a fetal possition:).

I will still give the nod to the TiTaniam Goat Vertex 6.5, or even better the V-8. For only 6#'s you have a pretty large shelter. But it is pricey as is the Kifaru's.

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/vertex8.html

I should stay w/ the ? asked:) like Wildone says!!!

For a one person w/ a stove or two w/o a stove and enough headroom to standup the Vertex 5 is super. It may seem I'm always pushing the TiGoat Tipi's but they have been exc. for me, and they come in very light to boot.
Jesse as before you are more than welcomed to give it a test run:)



Best of luck on your new adventure!!!! Allen

I bought a Megamid several years ago. At first I was skeptical about the floorless design but my concerns were unfounded after I used it a couple of times. A couple of friends made fun of my "wikiup" but have asked to use it after they spent a night in it. Super easy to set up and has kept my dry, not as light as the Mega Light. I don't believe you can even purchase the Megamid anymore just the Mega light.

I have not tried any tipi or similar shelter with a stove but am interested in some of Kifaru's shelters.

Here is my 2 cents, it is just my opinion thats all. I have owned a para tipi/sm stove combo now for 9 years. I have also owned the hennesy hammock and an ID tarp. I got rid of the hammock after its first trip . I slept like crap in it and woke up with killer back aches . The tarp is great when you are positive the conditions are going to be bluebird. The paratipi is my go to for when the weather can be unknown. To give you an example , my first AK trip was a caribou hunt . I flew in on a great day beautifull to be more specific. At 5 pm on day 2 the wind started and then the rain . It was recorded at Illiamna 60 mph winds gusting to 85 mph for 60 hours, sideways rain and all. I had the SST pins in and never pulled a peg or had to re adjust the tipi for the entire duration. No tears , no seperated seams , no leaks nothing at all. Its built like a brick house.I had the stove going for a while in the begining but dropped the pipe when it really was pouring. I would go anywhere in it.

As far as set up when you are in it . I may do it a little different then some others but it works for me . With 2 people , I put the foot box of your sleeping bags at the rear of the tipi as far as they will go . This gets me behind the stove so to say. I don't have a proble hitting the walls this way either. I have our packs at your head near the door with the opening facing you so you can root around in the pack if you need to . I keep my wood for the stove either behind the stove or along side. I find this works for us. Going solo you will have more room than you need and it will be comfortable . You can cant the stove pipe quiet a bit to one side if you need to and it still burns fine. The small stove can cook you out of the tipi if you make it happen but it is not a super lung burn time ( this is how it was designed) . I was meant to knock the chill off you and to cook on and it does that well . It was not designed to be an all night burn.

I also have a 12 man that I use as a base camp set up with a 4 dog ti stove. That stove will burn longer because of its size and more airtight design but it does not fold up like the Kifaru stoves. Tons of room in that thing , nice to stand up and put your britches on and stretch in the am. But thats another story you asked about the paratipi and that has been my experience with it. I will never buy a tent with a floor in it ever agian after using these things. JMHO others mileage may vary.

I like the Super Tarp for its versitilty,lots of room for 1,but enough for 2

You can't really beat any floorless shelter for space to weight ratio for obvious reasons. I've shared a Paratipi with another guy while using the stove. It certainly wasn't a space I wanted to hang out in for long periods of time but we were hunting and it was plenty big enough to sleep two in and stash our gear at the low end. For lightweight hunting, that's all I'm looking for.

I use a Supertarp, sometimes with annex, as my solo/+ one kid shelter but don't have a stove for it yet. At less than 20 ounces for the ST alone and about 6 for the annex, I love the shelter I get for the weight. Haven't used it with a stove yet so it is just conjecture on my part to say that I think I prefer the front placement of the stove to the central positioning of the Paratipi.

My "big" shelter is a Golite Shangri-La 6 and I love it. I haven't tried any of their smaller offerings but if I hadn't come across a $125 like new Supertarp, I'd probably be using a Shangri-La 2 for solo stuff. Whatever you get, having the option of a wood stove makes a huge difference in comfort and utility (to me). While using just a tarp can certainly work, I much prefer the greater versatility of something like the Supertarp. Not much weight penalty for the better weather resistance.

The biggest drawback I find with those above is the footprint. The very size that makes them spacious can sometimes be a hassle depending on the terrain you have to set up in. For a two man tent (and it is), the Supertarp covers a lot of ground. The good news is you can set up a floorless shelter over stuff that would never allow a tent with a floor. Small shrubs as decoration and large rocks as furniture can all add to the charm of floorless camping.

I've played with many of them (designs and brands) in several terrains/environments. I'm starting to think that I like a shelter just a bit bigger than a single hoop bivy, roughly the size/weight of an ID MK1-lite plus a small tarp, pitched separately from the tent. It seems like the best of both worlds.
You can walk around with a roaring fire with your skeleton fully extended and in case of rain, duck under the tarp. When it's sleepy time, then into your clean/dry/down insulated sancuary to wile away the hours with the sandman/book/ipod/dreams of a massive rack (purposely ambiguous). The MK1-lite plus a Silwing tarp is 4.5lbs. If you are using it as a one man shelter (which I do) you can use the "other" side for the damp/dirty stuff. I think if a second guy was along, I might move up to the MK3 size, and a little larger tarp.
That's what I'm going with for now, check me later for a newer opinion.....

I was aware that the SuperTarp with the annex gives better stove placement at the front-which I've heard is the major drawback from the ParaTipi.

But doesn't the annex attach with either safety pins or velcro?? If so, that does not seem like a dependable system for a potential life saving shelter.

In all I appreciate the input. As stated at the onset, I know this is pretty close to a "Is the 30-06 a good gun" kind of question. But I would guess money is tight for most of us, and if not, I am sure we'd like to put it somewhere else other that 2-3 shelters that don't do what you'd like.

Doc, the above mentioned system that is working for you has been on your sheep/goat forays and been proven?

Not Doc but the Supertarp annex actually only attaches at the top to the pole and at the bottom by the stakes and depends on overlap of the tarp itself. I wasn't too thrilled when I set mine up and figured I'd be adding some velcro at some point. However in its original form it has held up to some major alpine rainstorms. No wet despite lots of wind and rain in my case. I still may add some velcro at some point just because I have the same concerns as you but as of yet they haven't been born out.

Kifaru advises to use safty pins,I could not bring myself to do that.It works fine without anything,but with to much time one my hands one day I stuck two velcro patches on each side of the center and that seals it up real well.Tim

Thanks. Was just over there looking after I posted the follow up this AM. And I know this has been hashed pretty regularly over there on Kifaru-another "30-06" question of the ParaTipi vs SuperTarp w/annex thing.

Patrick was actually nice enough to send me his personal ParaTipi to try, but I got caught up last summer and only assembled it to see the dimensions.

I am a shorter guy at 5'8", so I am not sure the difference in center height of 56" vs 52" matters to me that much. Other than height diff, is there anything else major that seperates the ParaTipi from the SuperTarp w/ annex?

I have heard several bitch about the stove placement right in the middle with the ParaTipi, and it looks like the Super w Annex fixes that problem with little or no drawbacks?

I see the weights are WAY off in comparision, but I think it's because the Super assumes you are going to use the trekking poles that you already have with you???

Thanks for your time and effort.

Tim-you west side or east side?

I'm on the West side.I had a Para tipi for a while ,and while its a bomb proof shelter for sure,you cant beat the S. Tarp for versitility.I also use it for a rain fly over my hammock when its hot out and bugs are a problem.Are you going to be on the East or West side?

They advertise the Supertarp as 16 ounces (mine is 18.8 on my digital scale), the annex as 5.75 ounces (mine is 6.5) and the peg and pole kit as 1 lb. 4 ounces. So if you're comparing advertised weights, the complete Supertarp set up (2 lbs. 10 ounces) is still quite a bit lighter than the Paratipi (3 lb.s 8 ounces). That gets 4 ounces closer if you ditch the mosquito netting for the Paratipi.

Been on Kifaru tube a bit this am, since I am heading into work and the Gov has shut down about all picture/video viewing on your dime.

got you guys cross referenced and figured out from over there.

Somewhere between Colville and Spokane-East Side.....the only side! Was a former west sider for 3 years. You can keep it. And Bellvue, and I-5 traffic, and high cost everything....

Finally seeing the shelters being set up, and side by side has helped. Getting it in my thick skull on ditching the poles(supplied) and using trekking poles makes a good bit of difference it seems.

Never used trekking poles before, but they were on my list of things to get. And I will. Think I am pretty well set on the ST/Annex combo.

Jesse: if you are in a wooded area limbs work just fine for the Supertarp. The length doesn't have to be precise. Using limbs allows you to keep your shelter pitched while you use the trekking poles. (I bought my Supertarp used with a pole kit that I've never taken to the field.)

CCH: does seam sealing the ST add an ounce or two?

I think that would be a lot of seam sealer considering the small amount of seams and mine isn't sealed. I was told by someone who makes them that it really wasn't necessary. So far it hasn't been necessary (didn't leak a bit in an all night rain storm at 12,500 feet) but I'll probably get around to doing it at some point just 'cuz. So the weight on mine is as is. My scale seems to weigh gear heavier than Kifaru's. I find that very exciting as I must have the world's lightest Kimber Montana. It weighs 4 lbs. 15 ounces on my scale.

At this point, I've gotta say it's the GoLite Shangri La 4 with a stove jack in it. I love my megamid, but dislike that it doesn't pitch tight to the ground. Not an issue in snow, but somewhat breezy elsewise. At 3.5#, the SL4 is quite a bit larger -- almost the size of the Kifaru 4 man which weighs nearly double.

please explain how you get a close pitch to the ground with your SL4. Also like to see your stove and jack setup.

EdT stated to run the tent stakes right thru the stakeout straps up close to the material for a tighter pitch. Judging from the picture, that might be what Evanhill did. Looks good and taut.

MtnHtr

I quit the whole bivy thing years back. Bivys, well, suck!

Like Doc, I've gone to a small footprint tent. (Actually, got my first small footprint tent back in 1986, a North Face Mayfly). I currently use a Black Diamond Firtslight. It's perfect for the solo hunter. The problem with Pyramids and stoves is weight and the footprint (sf) they require. They're comfortable, as anyone can attest, but that comfort comes at a price... everything in backpacking is a compromise, and I choose to make that compromise on the lighter, smaller side.

Start with the adjustable straps completely drawn in when you stake them down. After putting the center pole up, pin all the secondaries down tight. That pretty much does it.

Stove is a Kifaru small. Stove jack is pretty straightforward. I cut the jack material so that the perimeter overlays the top cone seam as well as two side seams. Put edge binding on the jack and put on the hole cover. Then sew the whole thing right onto those seams, with an edge binding backing for the bottom where it isn't on a seam. Cut out the tent fabric afterwards. I've done this on two megamids, an origami, and the SL4. Works pretty well. Just to save someone else a blunder -- don't put a stove jack anywhere but the center on a pyramid. The pipe is an important part of the heating equation. If most of it is outside, you won't get nearly as much heat nor will it be as even. Besides, the center pole is already making the center space unusable. Might as well stick the stove there too.

Regarding Brad's comment about the problem with pyramids and stoves -- I'll add fussing around time to the equation. Pyramids go up quick, but stoves don't. When the weather is good, I regret bringing the stove and fussing around with it. Every time I'm reclining in civilized heated comfort with a storm going on outside, I remind myself yet again to always bring the stove.

Great feedback. Thank you.

Is the small stove the way to go or would you go bigger?

It also occurred to me that I typically drive the stakes about an inch underground. That helps take up the stake loop slack.

I've been happy with the small stove. Friends who have both smaller and larger stoves observe that the small stoves require quite a bit more stoking than the medium stoves do. I wouldn't get the para, which is smaller yet.

One thing on the footprint of floorless tents is that they do allow you to set up over things like small shrubs, stumps and embedded rocks. Because the floor space is so large you can sometimes pitch over them and place them out of the way, allowing you to use a space you might not otherwise. I've quite enjoyed having a nice shrub in the corner of my SL-6 for ornamental use or a large rock to lean my gear against.

My take on it, using an ID silshelter for a number of years, with the wife, just a bit on the small side. For me alone thats probably exactly what I'd take though.

For us we take the paratipi now. Just right, plenty of room to sleep, to get up and dress and not much weight.

We do not use a stove as all of our hunting has been at 15 for lows and above, no need for it there. But I do have the tiny TI Goat tube stove on my list for an in case thing, IE pack it just in case we ever get snowed in unexpectedly etc....

And in a pinch the paratipi could handl 3 folks easily.

With the silshelter and fairly open front I could carry the small stove and put the pipe out the front and be fine.

I did call about sewing a jack into the front of the paratipi and they said were too busy. I have on my list to buy a good sewing machine one day and the first 2 things will be to add 12 inches of ground cloth to the bottom so I can seal it off with dirt if needed for really bad weather, and to move the stove jack to the front. Then will be to make a moisture liner for the sleeping area only. A few ounces of material can keep some of the drips off and keep the down bags drier.

We did the dumb thing and bought bivy bags the other year and might work super at some point, plan was to sleep without anything unless the weather turned iffy, and we had so much frost both inside and outside of the bivy that it wasn't worth the hassle IMHO to fight that every morning when packing up to move.... especially with down bags.

I'd do a tarp next time instead of the bivy and might still have the same problems.

Hammocks seem like a good shot but cool weather/cold weather would suck. Have to pack too much weight/bulk for the under liner for cold. But one could think about not using a sleeping bag in that instance but basically the bottomless blankets to cover with...

Unfortunately you'll spend lots of money and time and have this prefected by the time you can no longer do it most likely...

In laws have the Go Lite SHangri la basically for unexpected nights out and it will sleep 3 in a pinch and keep you out of the weather. Can't complain much about it in general.

Brad, EdT, DocB and fellow hunters/backpackers,

How about the Hilleberg Nallo 2 or Akto or Unna? I've also heard great things about Warmlite?

Anyone use the Kifaru 4-man as a 2-person sheep hunting tent?

My tent on the goat hunts is the Eureka Alpinlite. I will say that I stayed comfortable, but the guides tents leaked badly. On the sheep hunts I have been in several. A BD MegaLight was very nice in the bug free, snake free, temperature mild environment of the Summer time in the NWT. This year I was in a MEC two man WITH the guide, and it was just a bit tight, but did well. In all cases, on these hunts, I've been covering large amounts of vertical ground and was exhausted in the extreme and would have slept under a wide brimmed hat very well. When I go around here, for a night or two, I like comfort, and weight is not paramount for me. I love Hillebergs and have been using my Jannu to go out with my little girl and dog. I've been liking the Hillebergs because you can set them up in the rain without getting the inside wet. This year the North Georgia region is getting enough rain to erase a 5 year drought (4 inches today). It's a pain setting up my beloved Rabs or Integral Designs, poking the poles through the open door with the rain pouring in.....gotta set up a tarp first. So far this year my favorite is a Hille Jannu.....tall, long, wide, light, and got a vestibule, just a little on the heavy side these days for one guy. I did just get another Akto on the classified that I'm going to give another chance. I got rid of my first one after it kept falling in on me on an ice/sleet storm, but I think I'm going to get the extra pole.
That's all for now.....
Don

Doc,

If you would upgrade that Akto just a bit to a UNA your problems would go away. Just enough room, weight, ht., and strength. Just like Goldelocks!

Excuse the spelling it's late!

Lefty C

I like the Firtlight. On my digital scale it's EXACTLY 3lbs 0oz's. THAT'S LIGHT! A Tyvek ground cloth adds 8oz's.

A bit tight for two, perfect for solo plus gear. Best in a dryish climate likely, but I've had mine in 50 mph winds, blowing, prolonged rain, and snow with absolutely no worries.

I can't see an additional 2-3lbs for a solo tent. However, if two are sharing the load and the "footprint" is bigger, I could see going to a 6lb tent, in which cae the Hilleberg is likely great.

However, one of the best I've owned of that category was the Sierra Designs Omega.

Considering I paid close to $300 eleven years ago, this is a good deal for a bomber tent:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Pr...gn=PCGOOGLEBASE9&codesProcessed=true

Another great tent I currently own is the Sierra Designs Asp III... luxurious for two and Bomber:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Pr...gn=PCGOOGLEBASE9&codesProcessed=true

Firstlight:

Asp III

Nice shots, gorgeous location. Sorry but I got distracted from the tent itself.

I have a Kifaru 6 man. And yes to answer your question kifaru tipis are well worth the cost. I used to have a supertarp which I really liked. But now have the 6 man and feel that the 6 is perfect for 2-3 guys with gear. And if you are hunting late fall and its cold weather you can bring along the stove and you will be amazed. Nothing like riding out a blizzard when you are inside the tipi in a t shirt and shorts.

I am new to the stove concept. Thinking about putting a jack into my Hilleberg Altai.

Any concerns about ashes getting on the fabric and burning pinholes in it? How do you prevent that from happening?

My one-man shelter is a Hilleberg Akto and I love it. It worked great for a 6 day backpack hunt and is comfortable in wind, rain, etc....

Great room and great vestibule to throw your pack, rifle, boots, etc to keep the weather off of them...

At 3 pounds with my ti-goat stove...the super tarp has worked out great and well worth the money. I use it mostly as a solo but have gone a week with my wife and I in it. She prefers our 8 man but I prefer carrying the ST/annex.



I have since added a couple of snaps to the overlap between the annex and the st - this has made it much more secure and bomber.

This may be a bit off topic but my wife and I have used a Cabela's 8 man Alaskan Guide dome for years and have been thinking of putting a stove jack in the center and having a large cut out in the center of the floor, liner and ground cloth. This tent has been through days of rain and high winds and seems indestructible. It pitches tight. While not lightweight, we were thinking that with a stove jack and stove in it, it would make the perfect portable yurt. If anyone has any input or knows of anyone who custom modifies tents for stove use, I would greatly appreciate it.

The Akto is nice, but a bit of a pain to set up, at least compared to my ID Mega Sola.
What I like about the Akto(besides the lack of mass) is the vestible.
Those are sweeet!

For only $105 you can get a GoLite Shangri-La 2 off the GoLite website. Everything on the website is 40% off if you know the coupon code. I really like mine. I use it for a solo shelter or quick overnighters for 2 people. Also if I'm basing out of my Hilleberg Nallo 3 GT and plan on spiking further out for a couple nights then it works out well for that. At only 1.5 pounds50 sq ft of total coverage all for $100 can't be too bad of a deal. I prefer it over my silnylon tarp due to having real coverage out of the wind was huge plus for me. Plus the fact that it doesn't parachute in the wind is also nice.

Those GoLites sound like good tents.
I would probably try one if I didn't already own an Integral Designs Mega Sola, Mk3, and a Hilleberg Akto.

I ain't a gearhead or anything...

I have no experience with the Warmlite, but the Nallo 2 has a pretty acute angle near the foot, and if there is condensation, I find it hitting the foot of my sleeping bag (I'm 6'). I agree the Akto is fussy, and I hit the roof when I sit up. The Jannu is quite a bit longer/taller, and has the vestibule and sets up with the clips on the poles instead of the sleeves. I'm really happy with mine. I've tried the Tarptents, both the contrail and the Scarp I. I haven't really wrung out the contrail, but I did get wet in a rain storm and haven't been enthused at going out again, but it's very light. The Scarp I is great, and I just spent a weekend in the rain using one. My only complaint is that the clips that attach to the optional poles are kind of fussy with cold, wet fingers.
I'm trying to add a new dog (Belgian Sheepdog) as my hiking/camping buddy. He's really not happy sleeping in the vestibule of the Scarp or the Jannu. Letting him into the actual tent is a worry for two problems....chewing on EXpensive gear (one headlight gone), and him getting everything inside wet in the rain. It's making me rethink the tipi's.....(I have a Vertex 5), or just have a really absorbent towel to sop up his drippings. My last trip, he curled up next to me, and kicked my itouch out the door onto the tyvek in the vestibule that had collected a rain puddle. A wet itouch is a dead itouch. Maybe Santa will get me one..........

Mark me down with 2 thumbs up for the Kifaru 8-man and large stove. You just can not deat the wt to size ratio for the tipi and stove. My only complaint with the stove is that you need to feed it quite often; even with pieces that barely make it through the door. If you buy a Kifaru setup and don't like it, you will not loose any money in the resell (especially just prior to hunting season).

Yes, I have seen the Kifarus go for nearly new prices many times. And overall, it's probably not bad investment.

I am still torn over which one. I just looked at the 4 man. Good Gawd they are not getting any cheaper. Think it was over $700 for a peice of nylon. Really thinking I just need to narrow it down to the Super Tarp with the Annex or the Paratipi and be done with it.

I have the same question. Even if I did not take the tent, the tent fly with poles, while not light, should make a pretty good shelter, especially with a stove.

Has anyone done this?

OK, someone mentioned a code for 40% off on the go-lite site.

Please PM me with the code so I can pull the trigger on a Sangrila 4 with a clear conscience.

I can't get used to the no floor idea. I hate spiders and creepy crawlies. I've used a handful of shelters, including the Clark's Jungle Hammock, and my favorite so far is the one I used this year, the BD Hilight. Great size for one person, and right about 3 pounds. Beats the heck out of a bivy. Here's a pic of the tent this year, a few hours before I shot my bull.

Thats why I run a 6 oz TI Goat bivy inside my GoLite Shangri-La combined its still less than 2 lbs all up for 49 sq ft of protection from the wind and rain. Granted the Kifaru is nice, but the paratipi (closest thing I can see to the Shangri-la 2) is almost exactly 5X the cost and a full pound and a half more. Or the supertarp at 1 lb, but no door and the back half of the supertarp isn't usable to sit up in and its over twice the price of the Shangri-La 2. To me the Shangri-La 2 meets a good pinch point in function/weight & price.

That elk is a HAWG!!

Dry,
Nice elk!

Those BD tents sound like a good product.

Due to some serious back issues from a rock-climbing accident, the only way I get a good night's sleep out in the woods is in my hammock. I have a big enough tarp pitched over it to give me some good shelter, and I can pull the sides down to block the wind.

With a hammock you do need to deal with insulation that goes UNDER you. I am fine with a therm-a-rest pad, but many people use under-quilts that cost a few hundred bucks.

It sets up VERY quickly, and is much more comfortable than being on the ground.

Just add to that a little to that... a Kifaru Super Tarp with annex ( aka,, door) is 1# 6 oz, (shangrila is 1#13ozs). The Kifaru has over 72 sq ft. - being over 12 feet long (32" longer than the Golite) I use the rear like a vestibule for gear. By not staking the center on low end... I can lift it and slide my pack and bow in the low end and still access it from inside if I need. Plenty of room to hang out in the high end without having all my gear in the way. 4' 4" tall (7"'s taller than Shangrila 2 & 15" wider) - it makes it easier to stay away from the walls. Not only does it have more room its shape is clearly better in a big blow. Add my ti cylinder stove and I am at 3#'s total and have 27 sq ft more dry area. The cost is way more but it is made in the USA and once you get it will serve it purpose well... mine has.

Does look like a sweet setup Bitt. Not disputing that. Just saying that the price is nearly 2.5 times more for a shelter that is only 20% larger. Having all my gear at the end of that supertarp with the low roofline beyond my sleeping bag and pad seems like it might be a little bit of a pain IMO. Glad it works for you. I happen to like the abilty to have the roofline of the SL2 and the simplicity of setup of just setting two trekking poles the same height stake out the four corners then put the trekking poles inside. No need for guying out either. I'd rather take some of that saved money and put it towards a TI Goat bivy to keep the bugs at bay while I sleep.

No doubt a good setup, just don't see it being 2.5 times better than the shangr-la.

I hear ya, but 20+% bigger and still lighter... always costs more.
Since I have that Tigoat bivy already I guess I am pretty set. But your right - I don't know if it is 2.5 times better....I try to get the right stuff and be done with it. So I can worry about where the game is instead of wondering if my tent is up to it. Given my sewing skills I'd probably ruin a couple Go-lites in the process of adding a stove port.

I would no doubt ruin one too as I can't sew at all. Problem is up in AK tree line ends at 2500' so 90% of my backpack hunting there is no point in hauling a stove along wouldn't do me much good. If treeline went to 11K+' I'd probably be more interested in a stove setup for my tent.

+1 on Bitt's setup,I've got the same thing

Or just post it here

Been teedering on an SL4... Put all the toys on hold until after the deevorce finalizes (sorry EdT, I got your PM, your killin me...)

But 40% off.... Thats hard to pass up...

I've also got the ST/Annex setup but that Shangri La does look nice.

I lucked into a "previously owned but unused" complete setup (with a pole set I've never used) for 35% under list price but that is still more than the Shangri La.

One thing I like about the ST (and also the Paratarp) is that without the annex they can be setup in many other non-tent configurations.

Here is a PT used as our kitchen on a rainy elk hunt.

I only had the chance to use my SL3 3 times last year. Not really a fair trial, but.....

The first time I pitched it, it was up in the air pretty good, and my ass got cold. But it held up to winds that blew over many trees. Other two times was in the rain and [bleep]. Never leaked...

And... Around my part of the world, I'm pretty sure I'll never own another floored tent. Its nice to not worry about getting the floor dirty Oh, and the ground absorbs water, not turn your tent into a pool. Thats a good thing. Ground cloth under my BA insulated aircore on a sheet of Tyvek and in my antique Kelty 0 degree down bag and life didn't suck.

Now, once I get an SL4 and a stove. I was thinking I'd have stake loops added about 6" up from the edge. Should give a nice and low pitch, with a snow apron (or whatever you guys called it) and I won't worry about the lost footage, because my plan would ultimately be to turn an SL4 into an SL2w/RFSAS

Sound good??


I gotta give props to Kifaru and Pat Smith. Awesome stuff... But I can't afford that [bleep]

Sorry. The code is BCORP09

just type in when you go to check out.

Great read fellas. I am going with the Go Lite Shangra-la 5 and a woodburner. Trying to stay in the 5 lb total weight range. Here is a pic of one. Ordering mine next week, then I will install a Titanium goat stove jack, and I am still researching stoves. This pic shows one with the nest(mesh full size interior, which I will only use in the midwest and Canada for warm weather skeeter/black fly protection), Out west, and in the cold, the SL 5 will be floorless and a single wall.

I have the same attitude as dryfly. I don't like tents without floors. I started camping in the early '50s and went on my first backpack trip in 1959. The options that are available today were not around then. We used military surplus shelter halfs to make pup tents. Two shelter halfs snap together and each person carried a small sectional tent pole and a few stakes. In the process you quickly discover that rain drains into the tent and rolling around in the mud is unpleasant. We eventually traded the pup tents for large open tarps hung to form an "A" frame.

Today my go-to single man shelter is a Black Diamond One Shot like the photo in dryfly's post. It weighs about the same as my old first-generation bivouac bag and has more room.

Moisture will condense on the inside of single wall tents unless you have a wood burning heater stove. Since they weigh less, you can carry a larger tipi tent which weighs the same as a smaller double-wall tent. But the weight of the stove makes the total package heavier.

The subject of which type of tent to use finally boils down to wether or not you want a wood burning heater stove.

Here's a photo of a North Face VE-25. Obviously a wood burning stove would have been useless in this situation. The VE-25 is old technology by today's standards because it weighs over nine pounds.



Here's another situation where a wood burner would have been superfluous weight.



The Hilleberg Jannu is a genuine "bombproof" mountaineering assault tent, 2-man, 4-season, double wall with a floor and it weighs less than six pounds. I costs over $700 but that's less than the total cost of a medium size Siltarp tipi tent plus a stove.

http://www.climbers-shop.com/2364167/products/Hilleberg_Jannu_Tent.aspx


Here's some photos of other camps that I have setup over the years.












KC

I love my Hubba Hubba.

I just scaled out the footprint of a Golite SL3 in my driveway with chalk. I drug a couple of sleeping bags and a parastove out there and laid them on the footprint with the stove in the middle. It would be a palace for one with gobs of firewood room. It looks adequate for two men with packs and rifles but not a huge amount of room for wood. It is smallish but that means light with a small footprint so finding a campsite might be easier in some areas. I think I'm going to order one.

KC, that photo gives me a smile... Tua skis no less!

My VE24 that I got in 1979 is still going strong (including smell!). It's definitely not "new technology" but it's still bombproof.

Brad:

My VE-25 is still as strong as ever. I use as a base camp sleeper tent now. Unless I can get someone else (like a horse) to carry it.

I still use the TUAs for back country backpack skiing. They're better than snow shoes when wearing climbing skins.

KC

How about the Vaude Scrotum?Im waiting on one at the moment but from what i have heard and seen then this could be the future.

I sat through a fairly windy storm in one a few weeks ago with no problems other than wondering if the pipe directly behind my head was going to act as a lightning rod. The cut your own poles and stakes for the super works well and saves a fair amount of weight. In the case of the cutting my own stakes, that is a much better idea for my area than commercial pegs since it always seemed they were never long enough to get through to something solid enough to hold anyway.

I prefer floorless shelters after trying them. In the past I would always wake up in a puddle of condensed breath/sweat trapped by a sealed floor, but now at least *some* of it ends up at the tarp edges. You will get a certain amount of wet from the condensation on the walls if you bump something against the walls (or during wind/rain events,) but I got that with tents anyway. If you bring a dog along the floorless is great since there is no floor for toenails to destroy and you can get in as wet and muddy as you want and you don't end up laying in it at some point. Insects seem to be taken care of by lightweight bug nets and mosquito coils. If you have a ladies/kids that will not go floorless (but you will) the ShangriLa + nest set up looks like it would be a great idea.

There's two problems with floorless tents here in north Louisiana: (1) mud, because if it isn't raining it's about to rain; and (2) snakes. The one shown below was maybe 15 feet from my tent.

We have loads of copperheads up here and that is a concern, but not sure how much safety a few thousandths of nylon will provide considering the amount of time I used to end up against the side of a smaller backpacking tent. If leaving the tarp set up for the day I do tend to roll bags and mats up and flip stuff over before getting back in though. Risk versus benefits roll of the dice kind of thing.

Then you need to be in a hammock, it doesn't have a floor either

There's a big difference between a snake forcing its way through a nylon wall and simply slipping its nose under a nylon wall. I'll stick with floors.

PS: plus, we have copperheads, rattlesnakes, water moccasins, and coral snakes.

I wasn't meaning forcing it's body through the tent wall which would be near impossible without a tear, but simply nailing you through the wall which I used to almost inevitably be rolled up against during the night.

We do have some rattlesnakes, water moccasins in western KY (some small lake/pond over there is claimed to have the highest concentration per acre in the US,) and the coral snakes are an interesting thing. Never seen one, never known anyone personally that has claimed seeing one, but a book put out by either the WPA or CCC back in the 30s-40s listed that as a snake that could be found in KY although I have never seen that listed as a possible anywhere else.