The REI sales flier will have the Garmin 60CSx on sale May 21-31 for $200. This leads me to wonder if Garmin will be coming out with a new model. Anyone know if Garmin has such plans?

Doug~RR

My unit is over 3 years old. The model is probably 4 year old. In the electronics world, that is essentially obsolete.

The iPhone is making a seperate hand-held GPS almost obsolete except in the remotest parts of the planet. I will be taking my 60CSx sheeping hunting this fall in the Chugach Range.

Garmin has come out with a lot of new models since then (Colorado, Oregon, and Dakota, off the top of my head), but I haven't heard of any of their consumer handhelds which perform with the 60CSx. Seriously considering getting one myself.

Features don't equal performance.

The prices on the 60 series are plummeting because the "states" models are the newest thing. They have touch screens. Mine has buttons that do the same things. I have a 60CS (no "x"), and I love it. It never loses signal. My maps are on a CD, not on cards, but I see no reason to upgrade, I hardly ever need to change the maps. If you traveled a lot to other states, the "x" series would be a big advantage. If you're needing a GPS you won't be sorry about buying a Garmin 60 series.

RedRabbit, I was wondering the exact same thing.

I've used a 60csx for 2 years both hunting and using shape files for work. Best unit I've ever used. Will get a full signal while sitting in my office. $200 is a good price but remember you also have to get the $100 map disk or map card. I can put the entire state of Ark topo on my card with plenty of room to spare, and it's a small card. I'm sure there are much larger cards out there and you can always have more than one.
ANother plus is it used 2AA batteries so you can take as many as you need with you and not have to worry about recharging a battery. Surely some day they will have fairly cheap GPS/PLB units out there. they may already and I'm just not aware.

To that point (having to buy maps), here is another source of maps:

gpsfiledepot.com

I haven't had the chance to really mess with it but my 60cx also picks up quickly while in my house, something other GPS units haven't been able to do. My understanding is that the main limitation compared to newer units is the number of map files (2,025) that the 60 series can handle, not the physical memory.

I love mine! $200 is a great value.

Cabelas has a bundle deal also, $220 for the 60CSx , cables, software, etc this weekend only, in-store shopping only. Good deal!

What are you using to put shapefiles on the unit? I've used MN DNR's program, but was relatively unhappy with how the polygons were displayed.

pointer- what was wrong with their display? It's been a while since I've uploaded polygons from ArcGIS using DNR Garmin but IIRC they uploaded as tracks OK. With my Delorme I don't have to go that route though because I can load shape files directly from their mapping software to the GPS without a secondary interface (DNR Garmin).

pointer, use your Trimble.

I love mine.
It's two years old and I think I paid nearly double that.

I just use the maps from gpsfiledepot.com. I used them last season elk, mule deer, and antelope hunting and found all the topo, road, and trail info to be right on and sometimes more accurate then USGS maps. For Montana they even have the hunt units and an overlay of the mile blocks (whatever their called) which comes in handy when hunting on BLM.

I bought and tried one of their touch screen GPS's and returned it after trying it for a few days. I have a Ipod touch so I'm use to touch screens but the one on the garmin isn't very good I think. The maps were pretty when you could see them but it was less usable then the 60Csx by far. More a toy then a tool. If they updated 60CSx screen so it could take advantage of the newer higher resolution maps I think that would be nice as long as you could see it in sunlight. They should leave the controls alone though.

We'll see. If they do update it I'd be really tempted to get one to try.

They didn't look like polygons, just a series of tracks/lines. Not that I didn't realize where I was at, just sort of a nit pick of mine. If/when I update my GPS I'll probably be going with a Delorme. From everything I've been able to read (and a lot of your posts on the subject) the PNs have everything that I want.

But, yellow scares cows...

I'm following this thread because I'm wondering whether or not to pull the trigger on the REI deal. I'm really interested in learning more about detailed topo maps. Taking an elk trip into SE Idaho this year and want those maps.

Does this mean I need to upgrade the card ($100)?

Also, do I buy or download the maps from some of the fileshare sites mentioned here?

Sorry for the GPS 101-type questions, but I haven't been a heavy user to date (have a cheap Magellan).

If you mean the memory card, a 4 GB card is about $10.

I guess I meant the maps (they're $100).

Spent a good part of the afternoon looking at the Delorme PN-40. Nice machine and the unlimited $29.95 offer for maps is attractive.

fremont- before deciding on a unit, what do you need, or want, it to do?

In addition to "reliable,"
1. Color
2. Access to quality, professional topo maps
3. Aerial overlays nice to have, not required

This to me means choosing between something like the Garmin 60csx or the Delorme. With REI's 20% coupon for full-priced item, the Delorme would cost me $240 and the Garmin $200. I really like Delorme's $29.95 unlimited map offer, too.

fremont- more specifically, what will you be using it for? If you search for Delorme in past posts of mine, you can read why I chose the PN-40 over the 60CSx for personal use. I think if you read my old posts you will have a better idea of which unit does what you need it to do. The 60CSx is a fine unit, it just can't do what I need it to do for hunting small public land tracts.

Thanks.....I'm doing the same thing (hunting + small public land tracts....sometimes w/ heavy canopy).

Whitetail - Are you willing to give more info on this topic?

Reason I ask, is I looked into the Delorme map sets, and it appeared I would need to get the Professional set (way more expensive) to get the level of surface ownership detail that I can get from many sources for the 60CSX. Wonder if I was overlooking something.

We have used 60CSX units for our TV show, and been able to get surface ownership details that are very precise. I just bought my own 60CSX, so I wouldn't have to keep borrowing them. I was that impressed with them and the custom maps we have used for the last two years. For hunting the checkerboard areas we hunt out west, the surface ownership maps are the most important GPS feature, for us.

Delorme offered to send me a PN60, but I just couldn't get the detail surface ownership maps I needed from the map sets I found available.

Garmin did send me some newer models for using in the show, but they now have them back. Not nearly as good for "hunting applications" as the 60CSX, in spite of some really cool new features (that I would probably never use).

So after all that, I decided to spend my own money on a new 60CSX.

Big Fin- I'll let whitetail correct me if I'm wrong. In researching the Delorme's the main interest for me is the ease in use and accurate display of shapefiles (info from computer mapping programs). These can be had for free from the federal management agencies once you know who and how to ask. You can get ownership from the feds and hunting unit boundaries from the state, etc... That way, you can KNOW where you are within the error margin of your GPS and not have to depend on topo features. I use a survey grade GPS for work that I have land ownership on and it is slick. If I can get that in an affordable, easy to use handheld, I'd be sold. I agree with you though that ownership is probably the most important think I need on a GPS. For me that's a higher priority than detailed TOPO maps.

Here's a previous thread I saved where Whitetail shares a bunch of info on the Delorme.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3320487/GPS_for_Wilderness_Elk_Hunt

Thanks Pointer. I actually met with the Delorme folks and asked them about map sets, and from what they showed me, I was left with the impression it was not the better option for the "close quarters" of following property boundaries.

They did admit to not being hunters, so maybe they were not understanding my needs, as well as I had hoped. Or, maybe I was not doing a good job of communicating (most likely).

Looks like Whitetail has this stuff figured out. I guess it is too late now, as the 60CSX will be on my doorstep Monday or Tuesday.

Here is a picture from the split screen in XMap to try to illustrate what I've been preaching regarding the accuracy of different data and how they show on maps either on your PC or GPS. The left image is obviously an aerial photo and the right a USGS Quad. The blue is a cadastral (landownership) shape file downloaded from the State of MT's NRIS agency and is state land. What I've been preaching in all these posts is that these cadastral shape files are not always accurate. The accuracy is determined by the accuracy of the GCDB information housed by BLM. I'll let pointer go into detail regarding GCDB!

The problem is that there are many entrepreneurs glomming onto this very cadastral layer and marketing it to outdoor types for use in their GPS (e.g. huntinggpsmaps.com, MTTrax, miscjunk.org, etc). Most folks don't realize the map background they just loaded into their GPS could show the boundaries just right, or, as shown in the picture below, not exactly. It all depends on the GCDB accuracy. In many instances, it is pretty close. But there are also many that aren't. It always makes me wonder when I'm driving down a county road, which is a section line with public land touching the section line, but the map in the Garmin shows it 60 feet away.

So here's the setup in the picture below. The waypoint was actually collected using a 60CSx as I was doing some ground testing between the Garmin with huntinggpsmaps.com's map set and my PN-40. I had both of them in Ram mounts on the windshield of my pickup. I pulled up on the east side of the road surface so the GPSs were in-line with the fenceline (coming from the west in the aerial photo) and the survey marker, which is about 15-20 feet east of the road surfce and is right next to the fence on the east side of the road right-of-way. The survey marker says the actual corner is 30 feet to the west, which puts the corner right in the middle of the road. In the USGS quad image, the section lines are obviously the red line running east-west and the road coming from the south is the north-south section line and you can see it continuing north from the bend of the county road. The waypoint is showing right where I was stopped in the aerial photo. Looking at the quad, you can see it is right in the SW corner of the section as well. Now, if all I had was a map based on the cadastral shape file, I would be led to believe that the state land ran 60 feet further to the south and 160 feet further to the west than it actually does as verified by the survey marker. Most people just say, "Awww, it's close enough." Guess I'm just not one of them.

And here's where the same waypoint lies on a BLM background.



I will readily admit the availability of so many map options for the Garmins make them much easier to get public/private land ownership onto your GPS. I've seen enough errors in these maps to make it worth it to me to put in the time and effort to go the Delorme route.

Thanks again!! That screenshot shows why I want a Delorme.

I have yet to find out of a problem with the BLM background files for ownership. Just don't always believe that fence lines are on the property lines...

I don't know if it's still the case, but when I bought my setup a little over a year ago you could get XMap Professional for half price, which was $99 if you owned a PN unit. With Xmap you can use any raster image you find (GeoTiffs, MrSIds, etc.) as well as shape files. You can scan any BLM (or other) map, load it into XMap and georeference it, then upload it to your GPS.



Hopefully you can see from my illustration above that those boundaries you're seeing on your 60CSx aren't foolproof. Hopefully they're close enough to keep you out of trouble though.

The map uploading process using Xmap is time consuming. You have to select tiles of areas and what map data (shape files, rasters, aerials, quads, draw layers, etc.) that you want to upload. Some of this information is large so you have to do smaller areas at a time if you're uploading raster or aerial photos. Like I said I mainly use it for hunting small tracts of public land so just load the maps for that small area, not the surrounding private land. If I didn't want to go that route I could just draw a boundary using XMap and upload that. Or the cadastral shape files and I would have the same information as is being marketed for use in the Garmins. Just displayed differently. The PN units are not shy about using batteries as it takes a lot of power to display all these maps/images.

The 60CSx is a good, reliable unit that is also easy on batteries. You said you didn't like the new Garmins but I understand they can handle raster images. I've also seen on iGage's website that you can use their AllTopo to load map backgrounds to these new Garmins. AllTopo uses BLM maps and USGS quads so you would be able to load those into the GPS. I also saw on their website that you can load aerial photos into AllTopo so you'd probably be able to load those to the GPS as well.

I just hope as time goes by that the GCDB information gets more accurate so it's easy, and gnats-ass accurate, to have landownership depicted on GPSs. Right now it's either easy and close enough or accurate and time-consuming. At least IMHO.

You're right, fences aren't always on-line! I didn't mean errors in ownership, just that the ownership depicted was shifted east-west and/or north-south as in my example above. I'll get a screen shot of my 60CSX tomorrow showing the waypoint and blue state land overlapping the road to further show this shift.

Would a guy want the 60CSX or a Rino? Or is that comparing apples to Oranges?

Supertrucker,

If you need to order pizza or find another RINO user, than go with the RINO. For all other uses my Garmin 60CSX is far, far superior to my RINO 130. I cannot speak to the newer versions.

For most of my use, I have just needed a distance and bearing back to camp or the truck. My $99 etrex does not give a bearing, just that arrow, so the 60CSX I just ordered should be a welcome upgrade.

Redrabbit, I've been getting along for many years with the basic etrex as well and I think the upgrade for the price is money well spent. With that said my yellow garmin does give a bearing to the waypoint your navigating towards and I suspect yours does also.

Olypen,
Where is that on the menu to give a bearing to waypoint?
I spent a summer in Sequim back in '72 moving irrigation pipe and chucking hay bales. Great country.

Doug~RR

On mine it's on the navigation screen below the pointer/compass rose. You should be able to scroll with the buttons on the left and see speed, heading, bearing etc.

I came here for the whitewater about 11 years ago intending to hit the runs and stay two years but I like the area and don't plan to leave.

I suspect your going to like the new gps, I need to upgrade as well. Denny

olypen,
Thanks. I did not see anything written in the manual about it and Garmin never returned my email.

Guess I will soon need to figure out the gpsfiledepot stuff once the 60csx arrives.

RR

Garmin has released many new models since the 60CSx made its debut. I have the Garmin Dakota 20 and highly recommend it. REI is selling the Dakota 20 "Topo Bundle" for $300 (http://www.rei.com/product/797251). Here's my review: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...126295/Garmin_Dakota_20_GPS#Post4126295.