I was looking at the shangri la 1 and paratarp from kifaru, look like they have the same design, how is the shangri la 1 anyone use one pics would be great thanks

If it were me I'd look hard at the GoLite Sl2. 5 more oz gives you twice the space!!! This gives you a ultralight option incase someone might want to tag along.

Course I am biased cause I have the SL2 and chose it over the SL1 for this reason.

Like Luke said, I'd go with the SL 2 over the SL 1. Another choice might be the Alpine Extreme 2 man when Tim gets them up and running. A prototype I have weighs 1 lb. 13 oz with a set of MSR groundhog stakes. It has quite a bit more room than even a ParaTipi.

I also vote for teh SL 2 I just got one yesterday, and it is huge for 1.5 pounds. With ths wide panels staked out. it will fit 2 easily.

Anyone have any pics of the SL2 inside and out thanks

Of your two choices, definately the Kifaru Paratarp. Just doing internal and external dimensions, the paratarp will easily have more space. The SL1 is great for emergency purposes, but for the weight and size the paratarp has it beat in almost every catagory. The SL2 would be a better comparison for the paratarp.

I've got an SL1 nest for under my tarp, and it fits me - that's about it.

That Alpine Extreme tent that Ed showed off earlier looks like a nice piece of kit though!

NXP

How about the Kifaru Super Tarp @ 1 lb.?

http://www.kifaru.net/supertarp2009.html

I looked at the super tarp. But at $310 with no door and only 5 ounces more gets you a fulled enclosed tent with a zipper as well as a even peaked tent for ease of setup it for only $180 makes the Shangri-La 2 a lot more attractive.

Though I will likely be selling my Shangri-La 2 depending on how my new Mount Laurel Designs Trailstar works out. Its 15 oz 5 sided tarp that has a LOT more pitching variations as well as being only $155 seems a lot more versatile, cheaper, and even a bit lighter too boot that both the supertarp, shangri-la 1 or 2. We'll see how I like it after taking it out a few times though.

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=102

Well how bout the Super Tarp Annex? 5 ounces more. Enclosed with stove jack. Of course a lot more money.

Yeah with the SL2 at $180 and the SuperTarp w/Annex at $445 or nearly 2.5 times the cost for me its hard to justify, but if money is no object its would be a nice setup for sure.

No way that thing will ever pitch as tight as a Paratarp. Those Kifaru tarps are designed to be staked flush with the ground. That MLD will look like a clipper ship in a 25mph breeze.

I've got experience with 2 GoLite shelters. Much as I love Patrick, I've got to give it to GL when it comes to design, attention to detail, and price. Can't compare durability, simply because Kifaru is a known quantity and I haven't flogged the GL's for years and years. Very impressed with what they're putting out though. Of course, GL isn't made in the US like Kifaru is.

Clipper ship it may be but I'm not sure. I havent personally tested it or the paratarp. Can't really say one is better than the other as I haven't tried either and don't just assume things I don't know. Plus I don't see a way to get the paratarp completely enclosed in the event of wind shifting directions the paratarp might actually be catching a lot more wind than the trailstar. Again not saying one is better than the other. Just different.

Here is a video of the clipper ship handling some winds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIxFHdl6Rds

The problem I see with that MLD tarp is the fact that it's design is a bit of a compromise. Look at the edges of the tarp, they have a catenary cut(slight radius), this is an excellent design for a tarp edge, it tightens the pitch and dramatically reduces flapping, but it will let the wind under the staked edge. That MLD guy KNOWS how to build a tarp, his are as good as any, but the design is less than ideal for an alpine hunter because you will have a hell of a time keeping the wind out of it. Forget using a stove in that thing. Look how the wind is blowing under the edge and billowing the whole thing.

Golite got his attention, that's how the new Sawtooth tipi came to be, methinks.

Lot's of people of the same opinion. I'm not completely convinced myself. Either way, nice as the Sawtooth looks, it's $800 -- and probably still has edge binding stake loops that are too small to take anything but durapegs or groundhogs.

280,

I hear ya on the catenary designs. But on uneven ground you will always get some gap between the ground and the shelter regardless if it is a straight edge or a catenary design. The way it is staked down in the video though and handling the wind quite well even if it is billowing a bit (I have a hard time believe that paratipi doesn't do this at all in high winds) I would hardly call it a "clipper ship" as you claim. The only time you can get a real "seal" to the ground with these types of shelters is on perfectly level ground such as a lawn. Obviously I would not be putting a stove in it and I don't have plans to. It is an emergency shelter not a primary hunting shelter for my uses though I imagine I could use it for that, but that TBD. The catenary design does allow it to pitch pretty tight. I have emailed the guy that took the video and he claimed that they had measured 50-60 mph gusts that night at a weather station 2 miles from where they were. What do you do if and when wind swaps direction and is blowing directly into the paratipi? I would imagine there would be more than a little billowing.

That's basically all I am looking for. This just seems like it would work for MY intended purposes and more versatile that the paratipi for ME. Obviously a paratipi must work better for your intended uses. Which is fine. To each their own. Glad you like the paratipis and I can only hope I will be as satisfied with the MLD trailstar.

And to me its height to footprint ratio looks iffy--------basically a Paratipi but taller. I'd want the ability to drive some very deep pegs if there was any chance of a side wind.

Golite got his attention, that's how the new Sawtooth tipi came to be, methinks. [/quote]

I'd bet money Patrick has never paid a bit of attention to the GoLite shelters. He told me the Sawtooth was designed because that was what he needed for his rambles. He said he was tired of crawling into a tent.

I think the Sawtooth is going to be the ultimate solo/two man shelter.

I know I am counting the days until mine arrives (15 days to go!)

And to me its height to footprint ratio looks iffy--------basically a Paratipi but taller. I'd want the ability to drive some very deep pegs if there was any chance of a side wind.
[/quote]

From what I have heard at the Colorado Rondy, they had 70 mph winds that were hitting the Sawtooth sideways. I know I am not worried about its wind worthyness. I have had my SL 6 in some horrid side winds, and as long as it is fully pegged out and guyed, its been secure. My only concern on the SL 6 in high winds is the pole breaking or folding over. They could use a higher grade of aluminum on their poles IMO.

I've shown this before but it's an ID silshelter with a few yards of blue silnylon and a zippered door added to it. As near as I can tell it's pretty similar to the sawtooth, mine is about 7x11 ft. inside and just a bit over 7ft tall and has been used for a few years now.

One of the benefits of using the silshelter is an abundance of quality guy points at the right spots to brace it for wind.

Good to know. For ME the 4man is the ticket. It doesn't quite have the standup space of the Sawtooth, and it's 13oz heavier, but it's got two doors for convenience and ventilation and an even more wind-proof profile. Probably overkill for one person, but not for two. At least that's my take.

My next one will probably be the 8man.

222,

The 4 man is an awesome shelter. I used one for years. Going back to the late 1980's when they were built by Mountain Smith.

Two doors are nice. I know my SL 4 would be better with two doors.

I've got the SL3, it's great for one person - not to much or two little. I don't know how you'd get three people in there without a shoehorn, much less two and gear.

If I can find one and have the scratch for it, I wouldn't mind an SL8 with an SL4/5 nest. I saw that setup on here and just smiled.

Personally I like everything about the Sawtooth but the price. 800 bones has a lot of competition...

NXP

Kifaru shelters aren't cheap, thats for sure, but I don't know of anyone that puts the gear through the testing that Patrick does.

Also if you compare a Super Tarp to this:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/stealth_one_nano_ultralight_tarp.html
they don't seem as pricy.
$330 for an 64 sq ft tarp. But it's less than 5 ounces and I'd love to have one.

Ahh so much gear, so little money

anyone can make one of those tarps with some cuben fabric and some seam stick tape. if you buy the 1.5 oz. cuben, you won't believe how strong it is for the weight. here's a video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gfcuCh7h04

Yup. I actually took my tipi down because of the beating it was taking. And you're right on about the reason for the sawtooth.

The stuff won't hold up long term as well as silnylon. The stuff in the vid that was hard to rip was heavier than the silnylon. There is an engineering student by the name of Brian McMillan who happens to make the finest hammock tarps in the world when he isn't doing grad school. He has access to some high dollar test gear and the knowledge to use it. He's tested all this stuff and he will not make a tarp from cuben. He does make them from spinnaker but he says they are somewhat weaker.

i have had spinnaker and it tears rather easily. sil ripstop is the best bang for the buck but i am going to get some cuben and build with it just to see for myself.

the blue sil in the video looked and sounded alot like spinnaker to me....

Thats pretty much what I gather about the cuben fabric as well. While it is lighter than silnylong it gives up quite a bit of strength that isn't worth it for my uses. My buddy has a cuben tarp and I just can't it being worth the weight savings for me for what you give up in fabric tear strength.

my project calls for 15 yds. of the 1.5 oz. cuben and get ready for this.... 525.00 for the fabric alone! get the checkbook out.

An Etowah tarp is a good shelter...I can set it up with a four foot piece of cord and six aluminum stakes...several ways to use it. Any good tarp is worth looking at.

You can leave the aluminum stakes and use wood pegs you cut from the forest...If you are wanting to go with even less weight.

The weight savings of Cuben are really minimal. They are significant percentage wise, but in actual weight, you might be looking at 5 oz for a Cuben tarp vs 8-10 for sil version.

Ounces do add up, but until I get to where I can't spare 5 oz off my miiddle, I don't think I get too worked up about it.

Ed,

The Sawtooth is very near a 4-man in terms of price and weight though the door looks a bit higher. I look forward to your reports on the new shelter.

While the "sawtooth" seems interesting... could someone explain why it is definitively better than the Ti Goat tent that has been out for years? Ti goat weighs less, more room, same features, made in the usa???? http://www.titaniumgoat.com/vertex6_5.html

?????

I don't think its a matter of better- just different. Kind of like MR vs Kifaru packs. I don't think you will go wrong with either.

I have a couple pieces of Ti-Goat gear ( bivy and tarp) and they are well made.

Just thinking about this light weight super thin material and remembered last year the nickel sized hail and heavy rains we experienced. Also in a woodland camp should a small branch fall onto your shelter, just how much damage will be done. The paper thin stuff is light, but what is being sacrificed?

Silnylon is pretty tough stuff, they make parachutes out of it.

I'm considering the SL1 nest for use with a Paratarp. Im wondering if there room between the poles to get the nest pitched taunt? Is there any chance of posting some pictures of the set up? Thanks

The SL1's nest footprint should fit between the poles on a paratarp, as it's much larger than the SL1. Don't think an SL2's nest will though.

I don't have a Paratarp (wish I did, but that's out of my budget this year - went with a new pack instead and yet another unnecessary recurve that I HAD to have), I hang my SL1 Nest under an upside down Kelty Noahs Tarp 9.

In the late spring to early fall I like the breeze/shade/coverage of the 10x10 tarp.

If you'd like pics though, I can set it up out in the backyard - suburbia and all.

NXP

Rocks. Use rocks. Lots of rocks.....

At least, they work on my $9.00 poly tarps....

If they don't I'm out of there...