I was checking out Kifaru.net and clicked on their lock'n load popup and found something interesting.

https://kifaru.net/lockload_chart-popup.html

I'm talking about the second column listing Ultralight Kifaru Packs. I know it's just a small thing but I can't wait to see what they have to offer!

I wish Ed will spill the beans................

I know I'm not Ed, but I will be doing a full review in a few days. I can tell you I have had over 150 lbs of meat in the pack and it weighs less then 3 lbs.

I packed an entire Mountain Goat out in it for 2 miles and the pack felt amazing.

Looking forward to that review! If ya don't post it here, can you hang a link to where it's posted?

That would work too!

I'll be posting one as well.

Nice. A 3lb Kifaru that can haul out a whole Mtn Goat and feel good will get my credit card out..

No doubt. Be a good way to finally try out a Kifaru for me.

I'm just glad I held off on getting another pack till both Kifaru and Kuiu release the info on their new packs.

http://kuiu.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/its-rocket-science/

Common guys... my custom McHale arrives next week, and now you're telling me I'm going to want yet another pack! :-)

I'm in, despite having my McHale back for some customization

Amazing?? Come on man. 150 pounds never feels amazing regardless of the pack. Very much looking forward to the review and getting my order in ASAP. Sounds from the sounds of our talks it looks like I will be able to drop a few packs from my closet to pay for this and then some

Well, amazing may not have been the best word usage , but it felt damn good for a pack that weighs less then my hunting boots!

I will attach a Link from my review to Ed T's when he is finished.

If this means that a few G2 Longhunters hit the classifieds at a somewhat reduced price, then I'm all for it!

Atleast one already has.

Can't wait for the reviews, I've caught a few glimpses of the pack here and there myself, was wondering when it would hit the shelves.

Just when my wife thought I had too many Kifaru packs...

The anticipation is killing me....

I will do the review tonight.

I guess i can't leave the house the rest of today, the refresh button is going to get some use.

Good job Aron!!!!!!!!!!
Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ELK REAPER, thank's can't wait....

It's awesome is all I'm going to say for now!!

Ozark

Some of the pictures I have a to large to download, so I am starting the review on the "other" site.

I will add as many pictures as I can to Ed T's review when he gets it started.

LINK:

http://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=390644&messages=1&forum=5

Elk Reaper could haul an elk out with my kids back pack ! I look forward to your report!

Aron what material is the bag made from? Almost looks like sil nylon?????

The material is similar to the material that Patrick makes his Tipi's and Tarp's out of, except this material is a dual layer.

Interesting. How do you think it will hold up after several seasons? Is the frame a standard G2?

I think it will hold up for several seasons, mostly because of the abuse I put this thing through this season and it still looks like new.... Except for all the blood!

The frame is nothing like the G2 Longhunter and is actually 2 internal stays.

Very cool! I will be looking forward to the full review.

Well, there goes this year's tax return......

How much noise dose the material make. Siltarp material? Seriouisly how easy is it gonna tear? BlacksCreeks B Featherweight is one loud sumbitch!!

Thats not much of a positive reveiw.. Just sayin..

Well, I do think it will hold up to several seasons!

I'm not sure how else I should phrase my answer.... I'll try again

It will hold up to several seasons and you will be able to hand it down to your kids kids. How did I do?......Just sayin

Just joking by the way

Anyway, the material is like the stuff he uses on the Tipi's, and is going to make the same noise as the Tipi does. It is not as loud as the Siltarp material, but is louder then the stuff that Badlands of EB uses.

The material will not tear, but can be cut if you have enough pressure with a sharp enough edge.

Mel at Kifaru just announced the Ultra Light Packs so I feel OK to post a few thoughts.

I have been using a Kifaru UL 5200 for 2 1/2 months. I have carried heavy loads, I have crawled through timber and brush, I have used it as I would any pack and it looks the same as when I got it.

I carried an entire boned out ewe sheep and camp with it. Total weight 87 lbs. It carried as good as a pack possibly can. Aron has carried considerably more weight.

As far as noise, I feel it is less noisy than any cordura pack.

Mine came with no accessories so this is what I added:

On the left side of the hip belt I put on a Granite Gear Hip Belt Pocket.

On the right side, my Zeiss Rangefinder Case

On the shoulder strap, an MLD Water bottle pocket

On the back outside of the pack I added a homemade Grab-It

The pack is really amazing, but has a few limitations.
It is 5200 cubic inches, so if you are used to carrying a LH Guide or Rondy, you will have to slim down your gear. When accessories like pods and pocket become available, expansion will be more possible.

Like all ultralight gear a bit more care will be needed for longterm durability. No one complains about the fabric in tipis or Mont-Bell Thermawarps. You just use some common sense in using them. They certainly don't need to be babied though.

Some of the features:
White fabric interior for ease of finding gear
Load Lifters
Lumbar Pad
Simple Compression, 2 strapes each side
Laminated Stays from Carbon Fiber and Hardwood
Attachment points for an entire selection of ultra light accessories, from pods and pockets to grab-it's

Thes are pretty amazing packs. I expect my 5200 to be my main backpacking and hunting pack for many years. In short this is a pack that has exactly what it needs but nothing more.

Here are a few photos of the UL 5200 in use:

87 lbs on the way out:

Sounds almost too good to be true. Hopefully Kifaru is really on to something here that will change the market. To this point, it has been my experience that lightweight packs lack durability, comfort, or function. Being familiar with the Kifaru fabric used in their shelters, I would be somewhat reticent to have a pack with it, even double layered.

I look forward to you 24hourcampfire guys doing some additional "research". :-) If it turns out to be the real deal and lasts as long as a normal pack, it will be tough to pass up.

Yes indeed.

I have used/owned somewhere in excess of 100 packs over the years. Some heavy bulletproof packs, some whisper light packs and I will agree that few of the light packs have really offered anything other than being light. Not the case with the Kifaru UL. It carries up to the 87 pounds that I have had in it with more comfort than anything I have used. I say 87 pounds because to date that is as much as I have had in it. I fully expect it to easilly handle 125 pounds which is about my personal maximum.

I have also cursed some of the well built bomb proof packs I have used because they were God awfull uncomfortable.

When looking for gear, most important qualification is function. If it doesn't do what it is supposed to do well, if not excellent then it is a failure and of no use to me. For me a pack that is simple, is a product of function. I have owned packs that had so many straps, pockets and usless do-dads that they were a total cluster to try to use. I have been doing this for close to 40 years now so I am pretty well set in my ways as to what and how I want a pack set up. The Kifaru 5200 is for me, close to ideal as it is and spot on with a couple accessories.

After function my next two top qualities durability and weight. To balance these two there is always some degree of compromise. I will hunt in light trail running shoes, knowing full well they won't have the durability of a stiff leather boot, but the weight difference makes this an easy choice for me. Same thing with a sleeping bag, I use light weight down bags knowing that I need to be certain of my ability to keep my bag dry. (Although in nearly all cases a down bag will actually have a much longer life span than a synthetic)

Same thing with my Mont-Bell Thermawrap clothing. It's not as bulletproof as some, but for me the weight/compressability is well worth the trade.

How long will the UL's last. My quess is a long time. As long as a Long Hunter, maybe not but my understanding is that Kifaru's warantee will be more than fair. Especially considering that many ultralight gear companies like BPL have no warantee svae for defective products because it is UL gear.

Also, the bottom on the UL 5200 I have is triple layer fabric.

To add a little to Ed's post, I actually took a pretty good fall when packing out the mountain goat (rolled 30' or so), and I was expecting the pack to be torn in several places.... but it wasn't and the amount of force the it took to stop me (I rolled into a log) was unbelievable. The pack is tough, and I have no doubt that it will last me several seasons.

Reaper and Ed,

How do you guys think the weight has been reduced so dramatically, while still maintaining comfort and durability? This seems to be such a significant paradigm shift, it is hard to wrap my mind around it. (Granted that often doesn't take much)

For example: I'm currently using a Gregory Z55 pack that weighs in at 3.5 pounds and will carry around 45 before the suspension starts to fail. Many of the lightweight packs that weigh around a pound are useful up to roughly 20. So it's remarkable to me to hear of a 2.5 pound pack that can carry a 100.

In the end I hope you guys are right. I would love to shave a couple of pounds (or more) off my base weight! Heaven knows I've probably spent more to save less.

BTW, KUIU has some stuff on his website about his new packs. Very interesting stuff as well. Looks like 2011 is going to be the year of the hunting pack.

Hand down to my kids? Now that I'm interested in. A couple seasons? Might as well buy a disposable Eberlestock every season. Whats the UL weight?

Thanks

Click on the link to Bowsite that he posted earlier in the thread. Lots more info and pictures there.

Ed, and Reaper

Seems like I've read over the years where Kifaru packs aren't the best fit for big guys. And if I remember correctly the bigger folks lean towards the MR packs. I very well could be wrong about this? If so I'd love to be corrected.

In your opinuion if this is the case, has Kifaru addressed this or changed anything to make these a more all round user friendly pack?

Again Thanks

I can't really comment on the MR and Kifaru question about big guys, but I'm a fairly stout guy and I like MR and Kifaru both and they both fit me well.

Most of the questions you are asking are answered in the thread on Bowsite.

My UL 5200 came in at 2 lbs 9 oz.

I also think that when Aron is saying a pack will last several seasons, for most of us that means a heck of a lot longer, if not a lifetime.

As far as fit goes, I do know some big guys that love thier Kifaru's. At 5'11, 190 I don't qualify.

I am not going to get into a debate on whether UL gear is the best choice for someone. I only know that for myself, I will always go with the lightest gear that provides me with the leval of performance I want.

Looks like a great pack that fits the UL niche that people were looking for. I'm sure if there is any durability issues Kifaru would address them or not put there name on it.

Great review guys and I look forward to see it more in action.

From initial reports, it sounds like a very nice pack. I'll be keeping my eyes open for further reviews. I just don't know if I'm ready to let the MR Longbow out of my tight grasp just yet.

Thanks fellas..

I like where this is going now. I once called Kifaru and asked Patrick for a G2 without sleeping bag compartment (zipper and associated flap )and without a few of the external straps but with one more plastic triangle or D ring higher on the pack.

I like that the G1 frame sheet will haul bulk and awkward loads well on top of a full sack, I assume the G2 does as well but considering I bought my G1 a week before the G2's were released I dont know first hand.

I have a hard time believing the frame sheet or stays are an upgrade the way it is described. Im not knocking it but would like a little more info on this part of the pack. Is this how you perceive it, stronger than/as strong as G1/G2??

So what the hell is everyone going to do with their current Kifaru packs? I assume the resale vaule will be dropping. What is the point of Kifaru even selling the old style packs now, everyone will want the newest and lightest.

Anyways, this looks to be awesome stuff and i will be waiting with credit card in hand on the 15th.

I would not say stronger or as strong as the G1 or G2 Longhunter (for me anyway), but is an upgrade in strength to weight ratio (if that makes sense). Although I was never able to damage the stays in the KU pack, the KU and Duplex frames are a totally different dynamic.

In the end, I packed out as much weight as any person could in the KU and had no issue with durability, so at that point (as far as overall strength comparison), I would be picking fly chit out of chili, because I don't think most people will ever over load either one.

Hope that makes sense, but I see your point for sure.

I probably won't be making the switch at least for another season, and if I did, I'd keep my LH for bigger chores. I like the CC's of my Longhunter guide. I might get a new one if the fishing is really good this summer and I'm flush..

It makes a difference, sacrificing strentgh for weight savings is a step in the wrong direction for a hunting pack. I suspected the lack of a 6500 meant the load hauling will be compromised slightly. 87lbs is good but what about 100+ or 125 over 15-20 miles and awkward like 60% strapped externally to your camp. I dont think I can get 7-10days + game into 5200 anyway and am sure I wont be able to justify the premium for a pack I can only use for 3-6 day hunts based on how my hunts seem to go. I am a little skeptical but hopeful too, nice to see someone shaving away everything but the bag and a few straps. I just dont think this is the UL Hunt pack for me yet. Cant wait to see one though.....ahem.....Alaska_Lanche, im talking to you:) Looks like a sweet packrafting setup!

I will be watching for those used G2 LHG's to hit the classifieds.

Likely these werent meant to replace LHG's but fill a gap somewhere else and jump into the UL market, im sure they will be a hit and depending on where they are priced I might end up with one in my gear pile, time will tell.

The stays are much lighter than the G1-G2 stays and stiffer as well. Mel told me that they would be available for other Kifaru packs as replacements.

I've seen my EOD folks haul robots and other crap in the MMR and not break it, Soldiers and Marines do unspeakable things with theirs.

In my experience, Soldiers and Marines are the ultimate field testers, and stuff that doesn't work doesn't last very long. Of course, Soldiers and Marines are only about light after rugged-as-hell has been satisfied.

When the Soldiers sell their MMRs and make the switch, I will too.

While I am neither of these guys....
I would consider my self "big" at 6'2" and 220#, and I do have a Kifaru ZXR pack that I've used for several years now. It fit's quite nicely, with it putting most of the load on the hips. The ZXR has a different suspension than the MMR/Longhunter, but it carries up to 75# better than any other pack I've tried.

Like others have said, I won't be selling my ZXR anytime soon, as I want to see more than just beta testing. Also, G1 prices will drop sharply at the first release of the UL. In @ a year, they will hopefully rise a little due to "cult" status.

Fishkilla,

No doubt I agree. 5200 would be VERY tight for a sheep/packraft gear/ and camp for a week. But you know I am a sucker for this stuff and at the very least it will be a kick butt packraft pack that will handle weight like a dream. Likely pick up two of those packs both in 5200, you certainly check them out when they get here in March or so I guess .

I will for sure keep either my or my wife's NICE 6500 if these work out but both long bows, and a NICE 6500 will be going by the wayside.

Looking forward to putting these things to the test here in AKs nasty alder choked valleys and see how they hold up.

I'm not so sure that is the reason they didn't come out with a 6500. The Elk Reaper posted on Bowsite, and maybe here as well, that he loaded 150 lbs. in it several times and that he even took a spill and rolled down the hill before a log stopped him and that the pack held up fine. At 6' 170lbs., that is about 50lbs. more than I could manage regardless of the packs volume. I'm thinking that with this pack being geared toward the ultralight backpack hunter that they figured 5200 c.i.'s of space is sufficient for a week or more in the back country for most guys that are willing to give this pack a shot. Likely because they have already minimized the weight and bulk of all their other gear making a 6500 unnecessary thus allowing them to keep the pack at 5200 c.i.'s to save a few more ounces and keep a slighter slimmer profile. Of course I'm just speculating purely for conversation.

Yeah, I agree that is not the reason they didn't come out with a 6500. 5200 ci is a good base size for most people and with the PODS and pockets i am sure you will probbly have more than 6500 ci's of space to utilize.

Also, at first it looked like i would be selling my G2 LH. But now I see that these are not the same concept as the Longhunter and are a one peice deal. So i will be keeping the G2 LH for day hunt hauling duties. I might not even use these new packs for hunting, just for summer backpacking and scouting. I like the G2 LH versatility for hunting the way i do.

My kit is pretty dialed so I do understand how it works, I would be hard pressed to get much smaller. Im not ruling it out but it probably wont be a hunting pack I would use a lot. Short hunts yes, but I just dont do that many short hunts. I like the one sack concept no extra bs. With a little forethought and organization it is easy. The thing with pods is they add weight and snag spots, no big deal for some but I like to buy a bag and use it, I dont want to pay for more [bleep] to hang off of it. How much does it weigh by the time I get it to 6500? How much is the difference in weight savings compared to my G1 now? Which hauls a load better?

These are the things Im weighing out, not trying to bash the pack. I love the idea and could put one to use in several different scenarios. I had some questions while the testers were available and now they are answered. I now have a better idea how I could use it.

Trust me, I want this pack to carry like my older Kifaru pack, more than you know.

You know one thing I didn't take into consideration in my last post was the fact that you're in Alaska. I'm sure that simple fact would make your whole kit much different from mine which throws my whole theory right out the window. I'm down here in Southern California which might as well be Disneyland compared to Alaska. All I have to worry about is carrying enough water and the only scary things in the woods are mountain lions and tweakers. You've got a lot more variables (i.e. weather, freaking grizzly bears, etc.) so I can understand your desire for a straight 6500 c.i. pack without having to deal with additional pods. I bet if this line takes off, like I'm sure it will, they'll probably come out with at least one additional size but from the reviews so far it sounds like they wont have to do anything to beef up the frame cause 150 lbs. in 5200 c.i. is still 150 lbs.

Out of curiosity, how long are your typical hunts? (days and miles)

Also is there any chance that you've ever posted up your gear list that you might have a link to? It would be cool to compare.

6500 is handy in winter. Everything is bigger. You can pm me an email if you want a gearlist or talk further off topic.

150lbs is 150lbs and more then I care to carry. I didnt register on bowsite strictly for the review, probably would have answered most of my questions.

FishKilla, I agree with ya. A 6500 3lb pack on the same frame would be more ideal. Much rather have one larger pack than a smaller one with a bunch of stuff hanging off of it. I like to think I have my gear figured out pretty well but I still struggle to find places to put my gear when I get an animal down. Granted I don't strap anything to the outside of my pack as I like for everything to be contained inside.

Maybe in a few years there will be an option for such a pack from Kifaru.

But for a short hunt pack or simply a lightweight summer packrafting pack with lots of space if not hunting then the would be a great option. I just don't like stuff hanging on the outside of my pack due to my pack being too small. Regardless I will likely buy the 5200 to try it out anyways.

That's a lotta fish, killa.

I'm with lanche on this one.A 6500 would be a better size for me.I would rather not have a bunch of stuff hanging on the out side if I didn't have to.

I'll probably still get one of these for shorter hunts.

I too like the idea of a 6500-7000 ci bag on the same frame, but with a large pod and two long pockets you are pretty close to 7000 and they compress down well, so they aren't flopping around.

Maybe not as convenient and streamlined as one big bag but pretty versitile. The UL accessories aren't going to add much weight and in my experience it's going to carry better by far than a G1.

Looking at it, it seems like a good plan. Being that its a lighter material like sylnylon that should be a much less expensive material to put together than something like heavy cordura. One would expect that material costs would be less, maybe the pack will come in less cost wise also than a comparable size normal pack.

I will keep my Longhunter and G2 Late Season. The UL dont really appeal to me too much but that is just me. Everyone has their own thing. I bet they are going to be badass packs thou as anything kifaru makes is simply awesome.

Add another vote for a 6,500+ version. I know you can add pods and such but I like to have the room in the pack to begin with. Not a big concern as I'm doubting these are going to hit a price point for me to replace my G1 Guide any time soon.

Ed,

Yeah you can get the volume up to 6500+ pretty easily with pods. How does the 5200 UL pack compress down when empty?? Is it floppy?? If not do you think the 6500 could be designed similar??

I can't remember what my torso length is for the life of me. But at 5'9 do you think that would warrant the 26" stays or would the 24" stays be sufficient in the 5200?? Could the same pack be fitted to my 5'3 wife if the stays were the shorter 24" version??

I might have missed it.. but, what is the price tag?

Luke,

It compresses down very well. I think a larger bag would do OK too.

I'll measure my stays tonight.

Calvin,

Pricing will come out Wednesday.

I say this with respect, because I hold Ed T's contributions and experience in extremely high regard, but that load in that pack looks a little "slumpy". The top of the pack drooling back and away from your head doesn't look very comfortable to me.

I know that my dana externals an internals will keep things in a nice rigid column with up to and including ludicrous loads (like the boned neck, backstraps, brisket, tenders, and misc. flanks and such from a big moose - loaded to overflowing the ancient Dana alpine I picked up for $50 on craigslist - I only had to carry that one 3/8 mile on flat hard ground).

I'll be interested in seeing additional pics of that rig loaded heavy with a typical one-trip load on other big one-trip animals.

Dana terraframe with same:

The cape was dried to the state of a popcorn fart, and the clothes on the drybag were very light as well. The old sheep guide bush pilot complimented me on the substantial meat haul - he was worried I shot a goat out of season before seeing the sheep horns at the airstrip. His words: you brought out a lot more than some do...

Oh, and the pack pictured is ~6500 in^3. There was still some volume available in the top of the tube, but I wanted to leave that at a height where I could secure the horns as shown with the top compression strap. Hence, the clothing and cape riding out back.

The pictures I have of my 7 day trip are to large to download, but I will post them on the other site. Sorry about that, but here is a pic if the pack compressed.

A link to pictures:

http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=390644&messages=71&forum=5#3099031

Luke,

Mine are the 26" stays. I am 5'11" with a 21" torso.

Vek,

A couple things you are seeing there.

One, the load is with the extension collar fully extended, so it is well abouve the stays. Just bulky light weight gear there.

Another thing you are seeing is someone with a severe forward curvature of the cervical. It would be nearly impossible to have a pack that would accomadate my curvature.

I have owned a bunch of Dana's and the KUL 5200 is far more comfortable than any of them were.

Also, the stays - they're carbon fiber over hardwood. They don't sound like you can shape them to the curve of your back, as you do with the aluminum dana internal stay. Is stay-bending a necessary part of fitting a kifaru pack?

The pics on bowsite are great - it looks like it would take quite a concerted effort to get the weight of a crushing pack load up to where it's centered between my shoulder blades like I prefer. Will be interesting to see where this goes. A 3-lb pack would be a 5-6 lb weight saving for me.

Ah, Ed, typed while your were typing. I understand on the spine curve. Duly noted. Like I say, will be interesting to see where this goes.

Vek,

Yeah, any photo you see of me from the side with a pack on is going to look a little off.

The stays are not bendable. Patrick said that they will fit most people well with the exception of those with a flat back. While I have a lot of forward curve in the upper back, my low back as little curve yet this pack fits me better than a LH with the stays formed to my back.

Thanks Ed, when I got to buy mine maybe I will have both sets of stays sent so I cant figure out what works best for me. Then send the other ones back.

Do you think Kifaru would do that??

I carried a 44 mag in Alaska when I lived there, now I carry a Glock 32 in 357 Sig. I'm rather more afraid of being bitten by a tweaker.......and they travel in packs!

I'll bet they would.

If thats true and I have no reason to believe it isnt coming from Ed, I may have to get over my pod phobia and enter the age of versatility. Thanks for taking the time to share.

I once disarmed a crackhead/methhead while being held gunpoint on the Lower Rogue. He wanted our axe and all of the food in our totes. We just wanted to setup camp and fish for Steelhead, and we did. I'll take bears everytime.

I guess Kifaru will launch the UL website on Thursday instead of Wednesday now. Understandably so:

"Hey guys, I wanted to let you know that there will be a one day delay for the ultralight program launch. We will be launching on Thur the 16th. There are 2 reasons for this. As some of you might have read here on the message board, we lost one of our longtime members and a good friend to many here yesterday. Timberline passed away suddenly yesterday on his 58th birthday. He was a very close friend of Patricks and this loss understandably has slowed progress down just a bit for our launch. "

http://www.kifaruforums.net/showthread.php?23909-Kifaru-Ultralight-Packs!!!/page11

Thanks for writing up such informative reviews on the packs. Not sure it was mentioned (although I may have missed it). Are the UL pods and pockets double thickness as well?

Hey man, that's a story I'd like to hear the details of!

The KU page is now up over at Kifaru. I just ordered a KU5200, KU E&E and other accessories. So in 12 weeks if anybody in the central WA area wants to take a look at it or test it out, send me a PM. I am in the Seattle area about once a week also.

A buddy was daring me this morning to take the plunge.. We both are a bit worried about the pack holding up in our environment.

Theres that "Alaska Complex" again. What do you think we are hunting in candy land down here. Its not just gumdrops and candy canes here in Washington ya know. We got slide alder, devils club, shale and all that good stuff.

To be specific, we are worried about tearing that material while coming down through helo logging units, clearcuts, acres of blow downs, and beach fringe.

I not worried about the durabilty with careful use, but we will have to wait and see. Sounds like they were tested pretty good and if you have any problems Kifaru will fix it. I am probably going to baby this thing compared to my Longhunter. That doesnt mean i am not going to use it though. Hopefully i will draw a spring bear tag so i can put it to the test.

I'm going to give it a little while before I buy the whole pitch. ;-)

For kicks today I did some crude puncture tests of Kifaru's fabric, (2) layers, compared to some 500d Cordura I have. The Cordura was noticeably stronger. Really no surprise there as the the Cordura runs in the 6 to 8 ounce per yard range and I'm guessing the Kifaru fabric for (2) layers would be 2.5 to 3 ounces per yard. Another thing I noticed was how stretchable the Kifaru fabric is compared to the other. This characteristic is apparent in many of the photos.

In the end I think it is going to come down to whether the Kifaru's (2) layers is strong and durable enough for people's uses over the expected life span of the pack. I have a new pack in 500d Cordura and Spectra/Dyneema that WILL be handed down to my son. Time will tell how these new packs holdup. Hopefully, they will work just fine and we can all dump our heavy packs and save a few pounds.

The Dyneema is hard to beat. For an Ultralight more puncture proof fabric I think the Cuben is better, although not as handsome

...and 10x the cost.

I don't think that Alaskans are snobs when it comes to durability but we don't want to second guess whether or not our gear will survive.

This pict is from a glacial moraine on barnard glacier.
Basically you have to travel on a river of rock over a river of ice for miles. It wears the living daylights out of everything.
More than 5 different hunters have died there due to rock slides avalanches, crevasses, and just nasty country in the last 100 years. This picture is 15 miles from the take out landing strip and about 12 miles from either good goat hunting or sheep hunting in two different directions. It is a roughly 35 mile tramp. In general when you see this stuff and alders, you choose the alders.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around Cuben. From what I've read, it can be somewhat difficult to work with. Now that I have a pack with some Spectra/Dyneema on it, I can see why people like it - the fabric is very strong and durable and has a good texture to it.

I'm in the Eburg area and would be pretty interested in hearing how that works out for you. I'm currently using a MR but haven't had it very long. I like it and will be sticking with it through next year (and probably will just keep it if I get another pack.) However, I like the idea of a pack as light as the Kifaru pack but still able to handle a lot of weight.

Hope you get that spring bear permit, get a chance to load it up, and post up a report on how it works out for you. I expect it to be a pretty positive review given the nature of the company producing the pack.

I think I'll refrain from drinking the Kif UL kool-aid for awhile.

It's nice to see Kifaru making an ultralight pack for the people that want one. I have to agree with SU35 I'm content with my Cordura. I don't want to have to worry about rips and tears or babying my pack. I know Elk Reaper took a good fall with one on but for a pack that fabric just doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

if you happen to read thru the kifaru forum thread it sounds like patrick & a few others have been using this pack just like the other packs for the last 3 or 4 yrs testing it out with no ill effects. it's also something that took about 10 yrs to get to market. like anything u.l. they all have there limitations & there may not be a do all u.l. out there.......

Russ,

Cuben is pretty interesting stuff. I've heard the same about it being hard to work with.

If you want a sample cheap go to zpacks and order a large tent stake bag. I've got a couple of them. They're 3" wide by 10" tall, weigh 0.1 oz each and will hold 12 MSR Groundhogs. Cuben seems pretty tough too.

I've thought about a Cuben tarp, but dang they're expensive.

Its tipi material.. more or less I"m assuming the pack is fairly waterproof then?

That's a fact, I've seen it in action, I think dating back 2 years IIRC. He beats the crap out of all his gear before it hits the shelves.

Patrick confirmed that if the pack is seam sealed it should be more or less waterproof. By his choice of words I got the impression that he thought it would be waterproof if sealed, but that he didn't want to guarantee it. I can understand that.

Congrats to Patrick and the Kifaru crew. It doesn't look quite like a set up that suits me and I think it is gonna be hard to get me to give up my MR, but I love seeing a good old USA company doing well! I am sure many hours went into the design and testing of the pack and they have to feel great being able to unvail it and offer it up to us hunters. Best of luck to them. Casey

Dave Page in Seattle resoled my boots this year due to something along these lines...the soles on my norwegian welt wafflestompers wore through to the midsole, so that got replaced too.

Loaded on that stuff: 1mph tops, and that's two-tripping something that can easily be one-tripped on better footing. All uphill, too, even when going downhill.

Looks like they got cordura on the pack bottom. But, will the light fabric hold together when you do your half-gainer off a large loose rock and land pack-first on something sharp? Maybe the rip will stop...

IME, Some common sense is required with this UL gear. Will it be as bulletproof as the heavy packs- heck no. Is it durable and UL at the same time as long as you don't abuse it- Aron says it is and I believe him.

UL gear always comes with some kind of a tradeoff. No doubt this pack isn't for everyone but it sounds like Kifaru made on heck of an effort.

+1.

I hope all you guys with packs on the way will keep us posted.

Big,

Where in central WA?

I'm in Richland

I don't know that anything but the pack I saw a guy in AK on our deer hunt had.... is waterproof... it was actually basically a heavy dry bag with straps....

I'd think that you could sweat stuff in it to damp, and that it could leak even if seam sealed.. not sure how the seam sealing will go with a heavy load in it, IE stretching some... but basically the pack will probably stay fairly dry is my guess.

An option to trying to seam seal the pack would be to use a dedicated waterproof pack liner. I can only imagine how tuff it would be to do a good job of sealing a pack. And with the stretch of the fabric, I would think it would be tough to achieve 100% waterproofing when it is loaded up. The tarps, tents, gloves and stuff sacks I have seam sealed have all be less than perfect jobs, even with my best efforts.

It has been interesting to watch all the debate on wether these packs will work, will last, what the tear strength etc are, especially at BPL. This post today by a BPl regular kind of cut to the basics.

"guys ... you can comment and dice all you want

i invite you to stuff a goat in your pack and carry it a decent distance

and no i dont hunt or have anything to do with the funky named pack in any way

IMO ... if it works and it doesnt fail ... that what matters"

I saw that extremely long thread It's funny how people take offense sometimes to load haulers at BPL. I like to pack light, I often end up carrying other people stuff.

I agree. It started out as just a fyi thread but turned into a real debate. I think there's a lot of not seeing the forest though the trees going on. The question of tear strength seems to be a big issue but if the stuff lasts who cares. Some get caught up in numbers and as an Engineer I'm certainly one of those sometimes.

We'll see how it turns out. The question has been raised before so perhaps it time it gets answered. I just hope it's done right.

That Backpacking light thread is getting ridiculous. It looks to me like some people are really jealous and threaten by the awesome packs Kifaru is putting out. I don't care about a stupid fabric test. If it works, it works.

David, i am in Cle Elum but I go down to Yakima about once or twice a mounth.

I should have never got on BPL in the first place.

When I want to test out the strength of a pack, I go jamb a ton of weight into it and hike for several miles! I guess "in field" testing is not the correct way, you need to know the: Tear, Grab, Rip and something else strength of the material. Packing out big animals just is not enough proof.

I'm done on BPL:) I'm not a light weight guy anyway. Thanks to the guys the defended me on that thread, I appreciate it!

Link to said thread?

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi...hread_display.html?forum_thread_id=40270

I won't be buying anything from Tigoat in the future.

have fun dumping everything out to get at your granola bar or baby wipes when it comes time to take a dump, kifaru may be heavy duty but they don't put any pockets on the things. the number of things I need to get at and put away between stripping off layers to adding them back later in the day, to grabbing lunch or something else. I have no idea how you guys stand to have everything in one compartment cluster F'd together. oh yeah but one can get a POD I suppose.

Quit trolling the Kifaru threads, take you and your pocket fetish somewhere else. We already know they have no pockets and people still seem to buy them.

Cowboy, don't make me post that photo of all the stuff I pack in my top pocket.....again......

They're not camo either. Pointless, I tell you.

cowboy,

go ahead and stick with your Walmart special crap packs, those of us that actually use packs know better.

Those guys on the BPL website are fruitcakes. I'd love to load those guys down with 90lbs and have them descend a mountain off trail. That's what separates the men from the boys.

I put everything I need in my top pocket.. I rarely need to dumpster dive through my main pack for anything.

I have four Kifaru packs and have not experienced the problem you describe. Two of my Kifaru packs are the military packs with the alice webbing and you can simply add all the outside pockets you want with alice clips, which is what I have done to add capacity to my "point man" pack. As for colors, I prefer cammo too, but in the military packs you can get some great colors that may as well be cammo.

The fixation on pockets just keeps getting funnier, especially from someone living in "the hunting Capital of the US of A!".

I'd really like to see what he packs with him to see what he needs all these pockets for.

I'm going to guess he's not going to be interested in tigoat's new "pack" since it doesn't have a bag, much less pockets. He could spray paint it camo though.

Just so we don't have to see Smokepole's top pocket again, I'll tell you how it works for me and easily I might add.

Stuff I really might want to get to such as rangefinder, camera and GPS go in the HPG chest pouch, formerly in a Kifaru Possibles Pouch. Stuff that I might want to get to, but with the pack off, goes in the top pocket. This includes snacks and latrine duty stuff. Rain gear rides in side pockets if I'm really loaded up (e.g. have the kids with me). Layers can get put in the Grab It as necessary. Everything else is in stuff sacks inside as I won't need it until camp. WTF do I need MORE pockets for?

If I have something that I think I"ll need to get at, but won't fit in the top lid, I'll but it near the bottom zipper in my Kifaru LH. Makes getting to it easy.

http://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=390644&messages=102&forum=5

Aron most on here trying to have a pissing match with you couldn't carry your jock, so don't leave because of them.

I think most of that crowd is ashamed to admit that they couldn't pick up 150#, that's why they scoff.

That is part of it, but look at his kill pics and where he plays and than come back. I can't compete!

I just thought I'd mention that a lot of the old product information for Mountainsmith is saved at:

Waybackmachine Mountainsmith

You can track the evolution of Patrick Smiths packs that led to the Kifaru and KU lines.