I have finally booked my Dall Sheep hunt! Now I am trying to figure out the gear. I will be going in Aug 2012 and it will be my first backpack hunt (I think I might be crazy!). I am making a plan to make sure I am really ready by then and decided to get a pack and boots soon so I can start using them, etc.

After doing some searches and reading here, as well as talking to my guide, it has come down to a Barney's Hunter or a Bora 95. This will likely be my only Alaskan back pack hunt, but I would like to try some back country hunts in the lower 48. Any advice on the pack?

I have also decided to get Alaska GTXs from Lathrop and Sons - they are not far from me. Is the Gold package worth the extra money?

You would be doing yourself a favor by getting a hold of Mystery Ranch for your backpack choice. Call them up, tell them what you are planning, and they will put you in a pack that will be the best pack you buy. You can start by checking out their website, and getting a feel for the kind of packs they offer.

Spend your time working out like a madman, and getting your cardio dialed in.

Good luck on the hunt!

Kifaru KU 5200. Whatever boots give you ankle support and, above all else, fit properly. Asolos work for me. Actually a Crossfit gym membership or at the least, the P90X DVD is probably your best investment, and you should do that today.

If you've got the budget: Mystery Ranch. Yes I am biased because they are local. MR is in a small minority of outdoor product companies that impress me.
You would honestly do fine with your listed pack ideas though.

Interesting!! I've got the same boots on order with Lathrop & Sons and I too signed up for the GOLD plan. For my last 3 sheep hunts into the Brooks, I've worn La Sportiva's and thought they were fine. That is until I got blisters on both feet and lost the large toenails on both feet and on another, smaller toe. Come to find out, the boots were anywhere 1/2 to 1 size too small. About the worst thing that can happen to you on a sheep hunt is to screw your feet up. Alaska is very unforgiving and top notch gear is extremely important even when you're going with a guide.
As to a packboard, I don't like any internal frame style. My partner bought a Kirafu (I think) and decided he didn't like it. In use, it kept him stooped over and he couldn't stand upright. I don't like them because there's no place to tie your rifle down & I don't like the pockets provided for a rifle. With an external frame, strap your rifle across the top of the frame using quick release straps. This will keep your hands free to use your walking stick - trust me, you're gonna want one. In the remote event you need to acces your rifle, it's very fast to take your pack off and unsnap the straps. Trust me again, BTDT. The "argument" that you "might run into a bear & need your rifle" is, for the most part bearanoia. You'll be in open country with good visibility and, again with a guide who should keep you out of trouble. If I ever get another packboard, I'll get the one Barney's Sports Chalet sells. Should be hellforstout. Whatever you get, make sure the waist belt doesn't slip under a heavy load - BTDT too. I found an old Kelty packboard and took the metal buckle off it for use on my current one.
Finally, my comments about my LaSportiva's and my partners packboard shouldn't be taken as to "slamming" them. They are just 2 items that for us, didn't work out as planned. Good luck on your trip.
Bear in Fairbanks

That is the big question for me - External or internal. I had been leaning toward the internal, but my guide really likes the externals.

What are the drawbacks of the Barney Hunter, or any other external?

I am fighting my natural erge to go cheap on the equipment because I do not want to be in the middle of the hunt with equipment/feet issues.

In your situation, where the packout is hopefully one sheep for two guys, you don't need a 6000+ ci pack. Get familiar with the sizing standards for older Dana Designs packs - you can google up a catalog from ~2003 or 2004 for that. Then scour ebay and craigslist for anything built on the Dana Arcflex chassis - I own an Alpine and Terraplane. The Astralplane is the big gorilla at 7000ci+. I got the alpine on craigslist for $50...if that were my only pack I'd hunt the hell out of it.

As for boots, it kinda depends on where you go. If you spend the entire hunt on glacier moraine, then anything that's light and sexy like the la sportiva trango or its clones is going to get destroyed. If there is less rock involved, then you can get away with that genre of lightweights.

I run Alico Guides. They needed a midsole rebuild and new outsole after this year's marathon moraine packout. The leather upper was fine, but it's heavily waxed, thick, stiff leather. I don't see that heavy of leather in many of the fashion boots at REI, or even in some of the big mountain hunting boots like kenetrek and lowa and such. But, I've not used those.

I'd get something with a good, stiff sole that has a bit of rocker. You'll know it when you feel it. You gotta break the rocker into a wafflestomping norwegian welt boot like mine. It's built into lots of others. you'll know it when you feel it. I tried on a scarpa manta and it felt nice, but the leather seaming and such above the rand would get ate up in one hunt on the glacier. Stiff sole, minimal seaming in the leather, a rubber rand doesn't hurt on a molded sole. The stiff sole part rules out a lot of posers. Does the boot sole conform to the rock you stepped on to where you feel it as a hard point in your foot, or is it spread out by the sole stiffness? Are you able to grasp the heel and footbox and easily twist the boot/sole? You want that stuff to be pretty stiff.

I would go with a good internal frame pack

Good choice in boot- gold??

Bring good gaiters, Kennetrek or OR

I have an AT Bora and its good up to a certain point. Probably not my first choice with a lot of weight (>60 lbs), especially after you try some of the other packs the other gents listed.

That said, I hunted elk with mine for 8 years before changing to another brand.

KU 5200 for a pack.

I've got a pair on LAS Hanwags and love them...you shouldn't be disappointed either.

I wish I still had my Barneys Hunter you were asking about,I would have let you test drive it for a while.

You will lose much sleep over the pack choice but the boots will be easy, they will fit right or they wont.

The Barneys is a big, heavy pack. The hunter is almost 7000 inches. Thats maybe twice what you need for a guided hunt.It's also gonna cost ya close to 800 bucks.

One packer I had on one of my hunts used a Cabelas external. You can get a Cabelas for 250. He was happy with it. On another hunt the Guide used a Kifaru Longhunter.
My point is they will all work.

In all honesty, any decent pack will easily carry a half of a sheep.

After using the Barneys on two hunts. I sold it at a pretty good loss and am now looking into an internal.


The Barneys was always slipping down too low on my butt, The Mystery ranch has an adjustable torso length that should take care of that problem.

Also understand, Their is nothing magical about packs, none of them will carry you up the mountain, nor will the weight in any pack feel much different. 60 lbs is 60 lbs.

If you are on a guided sheep hunt you load likely won't exceed 80 lbs all up even if successful. Many packs will work at this load. You could save some coin by going with the Osprey Argon or Arcteryx Bora 95.

As far as externals being heavy, I will admit they certainly can be but when you consider a Mystery Ranch NICE 6500 at just under 10 pounds with waist-belt pockets for 6500 cu in of space where as my Barney's external frame with 5500 cu in of space is right at 6 lbs kinda takes that argument away.

If not planning on coming back to AK to hunt out of a backpack I would say that some of the mainstream high volume (5000-6000 cu in) packs will work just fine.

Reason for going to a high volume mainstream is they are cheaper and if they fit your body then they will be more than adequate for your uses. I have used an Arcteryx Bora to pull caribou off the mountains on a couple of occasions and it did just fine. Plus you don't want to throw down a bunch of coin on a super expensive pack to find out you need a bigger or smaller pack for your needs. Until you get some experience and your gear dialed in for hunting lower 48 out west its hard to know exactly how big and what kind of pack works for you.

An Arcteryx Bora will run you $370 brand new while an Osprey Argon 110 will run ya $340. Both will be more than adquate for a guided sheep hunt. Rarely do I find myself wishing for LESS volume in a pack. If you are disciplined the frame adds most of the weight to any pack. Generally for any pack the difference between is nil between say a 4500 cu in pack vs. a 6500 cu in pack as in less than a pound and the added space is handy if you plan on doing solo endeavors IMO. I personally hate strapping stuff to the sides and back of my pack as it gets hung up in the brush and isn't as well protected a larger pack will always get the nod from me.

For example Osprey Argon 70L (4300 cu in) is 5.5 pounds. The Argon 110L (6700 cu in) pack is 6.3 pounds. Thats over 50% more space for only a 15% increase in weight. Most packs compress down well anyways to suck up that extra volume when your pack isn't full anyways.

If it turns out you are hooked on backpacking you upgrade your pack as needed, but for one guided Alaskan Dall Sheep hunt these packs for $350 will more than serve your needs provided they FIT you. A poor fitting pack doesn't work no matter much you paid for it so trying the pack out this summer/fall and getting your gear dialed in this year prior to your hunt in 2012 would be key.

Hope that helps.

Agreed that if it's guided, your packing won't be too extreme. Find a good pack used on the classfieds, and then sell it after the hunt for what you bought it for. Boots are really subjective. Spend a few days in the cities walking up and down the stairs in a sky scraper or two if they'll let you. You'll find out what works for you and what doesn't.

internal pack for sure! pm sent

This is why I love the 24cf - these post have been sooo helpful. From people who know and have done it! Can't get this at REI or cabelas.

If you go internal make sure it "really" can handle 80 pounds without going "accordian" on you (I learned the hard way on my guided sheep hunt and I had the lighter load without much gear). You really can't beat a used Dana Design,whether internal or external for the $$. If you are a "normal" bodied person fit usually is not that big of a deal. You have plenty of time to watch the boards and Craig's list you should be able to find a high quality pack at a big discount (I picked up a MR G600 for $235 delivered). My heavy toter is still a Barney's though. Don't try to pinch pennies on your pack, boots or rain gear. As others will attest to Alaska is a very unforgiving environment compared to the Midwest. When I contacted Lathrop's I just went with the standard boot as my feet are pretty normal. Rest assured you will spend way more time than necessary on gear and it won't get you as ready for your hunt as excercise and range time will.

have a pair of the alaska gtx's not the gold package, have put a couple hundred miles on them best boots i have had, hope they work that way for you.

Lots of great info already but I will add my two cents.

Great choice on the boots I love my Hanwags. The gold package is nice but totally up to you if you want to spend the money. If you can go into Lathrop and Sons I would say skip it. I was less then impressed with the foot beds sold with the package. The G-Wax is great. What ever you get make sure they are broke in and have a little foot love kit to carry with you.

Make sure you already have what sock system your going to use and bring them with you to fit your boots. Its a big piece to the puzzle. Also as mentioned above a good set of gators are a must. You don't want to be picking shale out of your boots all day plus it will protect them from cuts.

As for packs it kinda depends. What does your guide recommend for size? If your flying into camp and hunting from camp you don't need a big pack. You could get away with something like a Mystery Ranch Longbow or even a NICE frame with lid and load sling. If you will be living out of your pack then I would make the step up to a 6500ish pack. If your set on a Bora try to find one of the older packs. They were hell for stout and great packs.

I'm sure your guide will have a list of things to bring but these are just a few that will really make your trip more comfortable.

A good set of rain gear is a must. It can rain a fair amount Aug and Sept in AK.

Good optics. I'm sure your guide will have good stuff but you spend a lot of time behind your glass.

Something to sit on. Thermarest makes a nice foam z-rest seat that folds up small. You could sit on your pack as well.

Trekking poles. You can find your self in some less then comfortable spots sheep hunting. Trekking poles make climbs and descent of tricky spots a little more comfortable. Especially with a heavy load.

Good insulation layer that fits over your outer layer. Its nice to have a good insulation layer to throw on while glassing or stopping for a while. You can work up a pretty good sweat and will chill pretty fast. Just one more thing for comfort.

A book or Ipod to pass some time. You can get stuck at camp if some weather rolls in. A small deck of cards is nice too.

Small sleeping bag and bivy. This is one I would talk about with your guide. Every trip I have been on we bivyed away from camp. Sometimes chasing rams and others loaded with meat. Its easy to stretch yourself to exhaustion. I have found it better/safer to make a small camp, make some food and continue in the morning.

OK well that was more then a few

Sheep hunting is a blast and very rewarding. Most important thing is to keep a good metal attitude and post some pictures when your done.

I have an old, like new Dana Design internal for sale on this site.
SEEN HERE It is likely to be from 1995, because sometime after that time frame, they modified the Carbon Fiber Shoulder Bar to be far less robust (assuming to cut costs). The Shoulder Bar is part of the suspension system, helping allow it to haul huge loads. Eventually, they removed it all together, and it was a very poor decision on their part. One of those instances when "older is far, far better". Built like a tank, and it is Spruce Green (has a blueness to it, but is still green). I'm getting rid of it because it is slightly too big for me. There are 30 ways to adjust this pack, and even with all that potential, the torso is just to long for my body.

I hate to sound like a salesman, but since a couple folk already mentioned the greatness of those old Danas at a fraction of the cost of a Mystery Ranch pack, I thought I might as well mention it. Spend 1/3 to 1/4 as much, and have every bit the pack you'd have with Mystery Ranch (which I greatly admire as well). And you don't have to pay extra to get the best belt. It's inherent to the ArcFlex series. The Beavertail is particularly handy for a hunter. The whole thing is designed to carry massive loads with maximum comfort. This model has a thin profile (thinner than the Terraframe or Astralplane), so the center of gravity is exceptional. What does that mean? That you stand more upright and with less back strain. When necessary, carry longer and heavier with the least stress on the body. Something to seriously consider when buying a pack; mine or anyone else's. I feel the profile of a pack is greatly undervalued and overlooked by most people. Lots of the comfort can be found in this area of design alone. The fatter the pack, the more you have to hunch over to compensate for that pull backwards. It's a sore back waiting to happen.

I'm ready to wheel-n-deal a bit. PM me with any questions.

Unfortunately, with most pack companies, you're best finding a pack made in the mid-1990s. Arcteryx, Osprey, Dana Design, Gregory, and whoever. They were overdesigning (in the best ways) and overbuilding packs in almost every facet of manufacturing. Fabric choices were overkill. Suspension systems were overkilled. Back when quality was present in a line of products from the bottom model to the starship model. It wasn't a luxury. It JUST WAS. Buy an older pack for a fraction of the costs. If not mine, doesn't matter.

Elkrazy,

My recommendation is that you should go as light as you can, and that includes using not-so-heavy boots, like these 26oz Sportiva's http://www.sportiva.com/products/prod/274 and a carbon fiber pack like the about-to-come Kuiu's http://kuiu.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/icon-3000-review/

Regards,

BBerg

i've both a Barney's and a MR 6500

have used both

for my needs I prefer the Barney's




good luck, hope you end up like this

You'll notice most of the external recommendations are from Alaskans and most internal recommendations from Lower 48'ers. I've been using Barney's for the past 20 years. Tried the internal frame packs and always went back to the Barneys for hunts where I might pack out any significant weight. The internals also made me much hotter as they sat right against my back.

If you're only planning one hunt look at the Cabelas external frame packs. My sheep hunting partner has used them for years and they work for less cost. The Barneys are a step up in quality, but the Cabelas would serve you well.

Boots are the most important aspect...much more so than the pack. In fact, I had my pack belt buckle break on the 2nd day of a 10 fay sheep hunt (I carry a spare since they are only a few ounces). Spent the next 8 days tying the darn thing around my waist. Surprisingly, it wsn't that bad. Still hiked over 40 miles that way. Bad boots with sore feet and your done. I think the gold package is a wise investment.

I have been using a kifaru longhunter guide for the last 4 years for sheep, goats, carbou etc and it has been great. It is a light, tough pack that can easily handle more weight than I can. It has 7000+cu-in and I can go for a 14 day sheep hunt with everything I need and the only thing strapped to the outside are my river shoes. My partners use Barney,s and they are a very tough pack, but when we are buswacking there packs and rifles are always getting snagged. With a kifaru gun bearer the rifle is never high enough to get snagged and my hands are free. The generation 1 longhunters are selling very cheap right now. The last one I saw for sale went for around $300.
As for boots we have had great luck with meindels(?spelling). Good luck with your choice.

I was just talking about this in a private conversation and thought it worthy to mention here. A smart pack to keep in your sights for any backpack hunting is the USMC ILBE. It's designed by Arcteryx and manufactured here in the USA by Topper. Injected molded foam backpad and belt, as you'll find with Badlands and Arcteryx outdoor rec gear. Designed to carry 120LBs. Top shelf in every regard, but maybe not in weight.

Personally, I think all this focus on weight is a bit misguided. It's more important to have a comfortable pack with a suspension system that can handle heavy loads than it being lightweight. If you can get it all in one package, that is great. However, most lighter packs buckle at the sign of any serious weight, and over a long span of wearing them, the cost comes at the price of your body. Saving a couple LBs is a great idea. Shaving weight should always be a priority. But I'd rather lug around 6LB pack that I don't notice even after a couple hours than a 3LB pack that makes me always cognizant of it being there.

Alaskans don't have the monopoly on good hunting advice...

WHAT!?!?! Aww dang it, here I thought we were special

Lots of good advice in this thread, particular about testing new boots with the socks you intend to wear on the hunt, as well as the quality of some of the older pack frames build back in the nineties. Also count this as a vote for an external frame. I like the versatility a good one offers.
My experience says it is a mistake to get to hung up on a particular brand of boot. If there is an area that screams for physically trying on, before buying, this is it. Boot technology has come a long, long ways. There are excellent boots out there that are comfortable from the moment you put them on, and your feet will tell you. Not the least of which was a mean discovery that my feet unexpectedly changed, a lot, a few years ago. This requiring me to change my preference to a company that used a different last to build their boots around.
There are also excellent boots out on the market that will [b]Not [/b]be comfortable from the moment you put them, and never will be.
With the many choices of footwear available today, I believe "break in to be outdated, and possibly insane, to put up with poor fitting boots.
Particularly since a little time dedicated to "pre-purchase" trialing can completely avoid the problem.
I have real trouble with the concept that you should spend $400, then a lot of time & discomfort, breaking in a pair of boots. Call it progress.
Best wishes for a great hunt.

To the OP: Remember that the Alaskans are hunting un-guided, and plan to haul out their gear and sheep in a few trips as possible. If you plan to haul all your gear plus an entire sheep in one load (150lbs?) then you need an external, and that means Barney. Some of the guys above have done that. On a guided hunt, you won't.

I much prefer an internal when running up and down the mountains and I would strongly recommmend internal for a guided hunt. Lots of great advice above on internals. Anything from 5000-7000ci should be fine. If you will use it for other trips consider that; otherwise, the advice above to buy a used quality internal and sell it after the trip is a great idea. Boots are more important than your pack.

FWIW, I've only done two dall hunts, one sucessful, both with an Dana Astralplane. The most I have hauled with it was an entire sheep (boned but head still in the cape) and all my day-hunting gear. That load pegged the Astralplane load-meter. I have a Barney's frame, but no packbag (yet) and for a hunt in certain conditions I might use it.

Barney's ain't the only big-load external out there.

This load ended up on the external framed terraframe only because I mentally flipped a coin before the hunt. It could have easily been in/on my terraplane.

Vek just posted a picture of my favorite pack. Here's another pic of the same pack:



Keep your eyes peeled and pick one up on ebay for ~$200. Search terraframe, longbed, dana external, and k2 external.

Just curious Vek -- why didn't you use the top bar and go up with that load instead of strapping stuff on the back? Busting through brush in the bottoms?

The sad thing is they had to blow out those Dana Design Loadmaster series packs for around $99 in 2000 or so. When the ultralight trend hit, you could find incredible pack deals from Dana, Osprey, and the other highest quality hitters. They had to give them away to make room for the revamped product lines. Should have grabbed a handful.

EDIT: thanks for sharing the photos, fellas. Love seeing these haulers in action.

The top bar would've been just one more thing to carry. The cape had dried out to very little weight, and the bag of clothing was quite light. No biggie hanging them off the back. That top bar might have been the straw...

Vek that is a great photo the rifle looks a little scuffed up as well. Looks like it was a tough hunt.

I have been trying to buy a Dana external for about 6 mounths now. I can not find one right now and i seem to just miss them if i am not glued to the computer 24 hours a day.

Well now you all have done it! I really want one of those older Dana Designs.

Can someone explain to me (being a newby to these packs) all the different styles - Terraplane, Astralplane, Longbed, etc.? All those terms make my head swim right now.

What are the key things to be looking for?

Old Danas: If you go internal, you want the ArcFlex suspension, which is the beefiest. The Astralplane (7000ci) and Terraplane (5800ci) have roughly the same design. There are several other models with that suspension, such as the Alpine.

You can also just buy a new Mystery Ranch. Many of the designs are the same, though updated.

Astraplane (7000c), Terraplane (5800c), Alpine (4930c), and Stillwater (5000c) are all from the top tier ArcFlex suspension series. These are all based on size Medium packs. Add 200-400c for a size Large. They come in XS, S, M, L, XL.

The Loadmaster External Frame series is the Terraframe, Longbed, Shortbed, T-1, Z-1, and Flatbed (the contraption that is purely a fold-out deck for hauling). These come in Regular and Large. Two sizes only. I've never seen a Z-1.

Alpine has no long rear pockets. It's just a big single chamber, with Dana's shov-it odd gear sling. I think it's body chamber is same size as terraplane.

For externals, longbed is your oldschool looking bag 6500ci or so with long bottom that holds sleeping bag. Shortbed is lopped off at the sleeping bag compartment. Similarly, terraframe is 6000-6500ci with bottom sleeping bag compartment, and T1 is lopped off.

How much weight can I expect to be able to haul with an Alpine or Stillwater? My guide is saying that coming out I will be hauling 60-70lbs max.

I need a Large/Large size and am thinking that an Alpine, Stillwater or Terraplane would be best for me. I am also thinking I would favor a internal frame.

From what have I read here the mid 90s are the best, but are there dates, features, etc to avoid?

I've read many reviews of people carrying 100LBs+ with an ArcFlex and claiming it was still comfortable and maintaining its structural integrity. When I've read these reports, I've been skeptical, but after you keep reading them, you have to come to grips with it must be true. I know from personal experience that 70LBs is made easier with these packs. Your legs still have to do the work.

The problem with dating Dana packs is that the company was sold a few times from '95-2002. Bean counters got involved with manufacturing. I personally have seen at least five different versions of the ArcFlex system that I estimate came from '95-2000. The Shoulder Bar (a part of the carbon fiber system within the overall suspension system) kept changing (at least three different versions of this part alone). The shoulder harness changed a couple times (looped cloth/felt-like, all nylon). The Beavertail changed materials twice (Hypalon, Cordura). Then you can start guessing by the pack colors because they offered different and more colors as time progressed. Then fabrics (500d Cordura, ripstop Cordura, ripstop shiny nylon).

I would love to offer more, but then it gets more and more confusing. Addendums to posts, various posters with different and helpful experience and knowledge. I didn't start catching onto the nuances until I held them in my hands and noticed little details changing.

Geez that stillwater from Zeno is really looking good..

Elkrazy, is your waist bigger than 36"? If not, that could be your pack!

I'll admit I would love to see an old Dana myself..

Yes, and I'd like to know what makes it better than the old Keltys.

The more I think about this discussion, the more I have to believe the Stillwater and Alpine models would be more useful to hunters than the Terraplane. You can carry all kinds of sharp and/or heavy gear outside the pack with the Beavertail, and more importantly, you could carry out a rack and/or meat behind the Beavertail, not using up any of the internal pack volume. You start with 5000c, and with the addition of anything else, you still have 5000c for your gear (with the skirt extension, another 500-800c on top of that depending on pack size).

Zeno, have you had a chance to examine any Mystery Ranch packs? If so, how do you feel they compare to the old Dana's?

Also, could you explain this "Beavertail"

Here's a couple of beavertails doing kid carrying duty:

I have thus far lost 35 lbs in preparing for my hunt, but I have 20 lbs to go and that may give me 3 inches to make 36 inches. I was a little nervous to get a pack I would need to work into. I am guessing that a large would fit me if a somehow miraculously got below 36".

I have thought again tonight about getting that stillwater. Hmmm .....

I have not, but I have every confidence that Mystery Ranch is of the same quality as the early Dana Design packs prior to Dana Gleason selling the company to K2, which is when all the picking away at the designs started to occur. His packs appear to have that same overkill mentality behind them. I see where he's refined some of the Dana Design ideas, but the quality appears to be all there from the videos and detailed testimonies of knowledgeable and experienced folk. The only reason I wouldn't own one myself is the cost. He's never been a weight-shaver, so the packs aren't any lighter than the old ones, and I can buy 2-3 used ArcFlexs for the price of one Mystery Ranch.

It was designed to carry snowboards and be extended volume of the pack body. The good models are made of Hypalon, the same rugged material that make rubber sea-worthy boats. All the buckles are sewn in a way that the straps from each side can clip into each other. Sounds like a small detail, which it is, but its a smart little detail. Slats are cut into the Beavertail so you can use all kinds of webbing to create new tie points for securing odd shapes. I'm having a difficult time describing it. It's this giant flap of Cordura and Hypalon that can be folded down with the end curled up to cradle something long, or things can be tucked behind it. Straps can be extended, so the object can be quite large, and then everything tightened up to be quite secure. A flap of material with compression straps on its outer edge. Make sense? Help at all?

Evan, thanks for the pic. The MR bighorn has that similar "pocket".

Elkrazy, If you lose 55 lbs, the question is will you keep it off? I wonder if Mystery Ranch can upsize that belt? The answer is Just a phone call away.

Zeno, understood. Thanks.

Your stillwater has the large torso, lets talk in simple terms(I dont know my torso length ). The person would most likely be over 6' tall?

use THIS PAGE to measure your torso. I prefer it over measuring hips to 7th vertebrae. I feel this is more exact.

Dana ArcFlex = Mystery Ranch Guide frame.

The Guide frame is used in the G-Series packs as well as the Kodiak and Grizzly. If you went that way you could order a set of med and large waist belts. They change out easy.

The 1995 and earlier Bozeman made Dana's are sweet. The G Series packs are pretty much just a upgraded version of the original DD's. The K2's packs after 95 are iffy.

Looking at MR website then G5000 would be equivalent to an Alpine more or less - correct?

What makes them a recreational pack and not a hunting pack to the MR folks? When I first went out to their website I didn't even look at them because they weren't listed under the Bh section.

Volume wise, yes. Design wise, no so much because of the twin vertical pockets vs. the Beavertail. I know it may not seem like much of an issue, but I feel it changes quite a bit about how you pack, organize, and then can function as the hike or hunt progresses.

Nobody has ever seen or heard of a Kelty frame pack I guess. I've owned one for 34 years. Had a North Face frame pack before that. Lots of buds had Alpenlites. Never heard of a Dana Terraframe until last year, what is so unique about it?

I don't know, thats why I would like to see/use one.

I do know that the people who have used them, speak with great passion about them.

Dana Gleason has been a major player in packs for many years,he must have something good going on.

But I did say back on page 2, there is nothing magical about packs, none of them will carry you up the mountain

Takeaknee I started bp hunting with a Kelty, not the Tioga can't recall the name of my model

ditched the bag most of the time and just used a day pack on the frame and para cord to attach quarters

time consuming lashing stuff down with para cord and the shoulder straps on my Kelty weren't very plush, average season i was hauling 6 bou and a moose so i went looking for a better mousetrap

got a camp trails, made some mods to it and was nice to drop bou quarters inside the pack and not fiddle with para cord

hauled my first sheep out in that pack

one of the outfitters I worked for was local and when I was doing a training run with my ct with plate weight he kindly told me what a POS pack i had

had me use his barney's, i promptly got my azz to anchorage and parted with some coin to get my own

$$ well spent for me, i doubt both my pickups could hold the meat and bone i've hauled in that pack


gear reco is tough, i can't know what is best for others, only best for me

since then i've acquired a MR 6500 and a McHale, both very good packs of outstanding quality

but when it's time to hunt i still reach for my barney's, i've just used it for so long & often, it's 2nd nature, much like my Zeiss binocs, familiarity has bred comfort

can't remember last time i had the top bar on it

there's several reasons why but one of paramount importance to me is it's use as a shooting aid

i can go from standing with rifle slung in Kifaru gunbearer to sitting and crosshairs pasted on target of opportunity PDQ with the forearm of the rifle across the top of the pack, it's a better way for me to shoot than off the bench.

granted not a fully loaded pack but after spike camp has been set up and my pack stripped down to predator mode, rain gear, jacket, lunch, survival and butchering stuff like knives, saw & game bag and Arno straps (a true aid to the hunter)

someone reco'ed a cabelas pack earlier, a pard used one on a moose hunt few years ago, had some nice features on it

am thinking based on the criteria the op stated it might be his best option for $$ to intended use provided he decides on an external

TAK, I've never carried a Kelty myself, although they were certainly the standard for years. I went from Coleman Peak 1 to a Lowe internal, and then didn't go back to an external until the terraframe.

Here's why a terraframe is substantially better than any other external (and any internal that I know of): It has a pair of fiberglass wands that originate high in the pack frame and then the bottoms are where the hipbelt load control straps terminate. Cranking the load control straps pulls the bottom of the fiberglass wands forward along the hipbelt. This very effectively shifts a lot of the pack's weight towards the sides of the hipbelt instead of the very back. It also cams the entire pack up and forward. It changes center of gravity, and helps eliminate belt slippage. You really would have to feel it to understand how good it is. When I have a heavy load on and crank those forward, it instantly feels like I've removed at least 15 pounds from the pack.

Correct on the volume size and the frame. There is no beaver tail but the two vert pockets and main compartment zip on the front make it very easy to organize gear.

The difference in the hunting packs and the rec packs are the colors. They also beef up the frames and fabric on the hunting packs so they can haul more weight. They will both perform well for your needs. The only real advantage would be if you needed a repair MR is still around.

So all the models of the Dana externals have the same frame design and just have different bags? I have passed up the shortbed model before because i thought the frame was small or not as beefy. I have been hitting the craigslist hard this morning and all i can find so far is one shortbed.

Correct, most of the time. I say this because I have seen a couple Dana Externals where the bottom of the frame loops back underneath the pack body. I'm not sure when this change occurred, or if that change was more than for a season (or two). For the most part, they're all working from the same frame and just changing the pack body configurations.

In any given model year, the dana frames are identical to others in that year. Early danas had a "jog" at the bottom of the frame. I can tell you from firsthand experience that the jog can bend/crimp if you slip on a steep downslope with a big load...

You want the later one with no jog. Hate to tell you Wes, but knowing what I know now after owning everything but a shortbed at one time or another, the shortbed would've been my first pick!

They all work fine. Later longbeds have the waistbelt harness sewn into the packbag, so the bag cannot be removed for the purpose of saving weight. It can be broken down and rolled/wadded up down by the waistbelt.

Thanks for the Dana info guys. His frame sounds a lot like the old Alpenlite, except that frame had a curve at the bottom of the AL tubing.

For what it's worth...
Here are some pics of a Kelty Cache Hauler.
I've been quite happy with this frame.
It is quite adjustable and is comfortable for me to carry.


Packing in (Kelty on right side). My buddy had a no-name external and had a rough hike.



Loaded for the trip home. I don't use a pack bag. The tarp is part of my shelter system. All gear goes in zip locks and the zip locks go in UL dry sacks that get stacked up then wrapped and strapped to the frame.



2009 Loaded with boned quarter, head, and full shoulder cape. I added a few more straps to the setup last year as the meat slid down a bit onto the cargo shelf and didn't stay quite where I wanted.

I've used a Mystery Ranch G7000 on two successful Dall sheep hunts and an alpine bear hunt. During both sheep hunts both my partner and I were successful, thus the weights were a bit "unruly" at times. He carries a Barney's pack, me the G7000. Here are the packs fully-loaded with an entire boned out sheep, cape, horns, and gear (~130lbs each).



If you decide you want a G7000, let me know; I may be willing to cut you a good deal on mine. Sure, it's used and has had sheep blood on it, but it is a Mystery Ranch...it is barely broken in!

From what I know of pack history, those Gold Wands are taken from the internal frame developments. If you adjust a pack in the correct order (yeah, there sort of is one), those side load shifters can make a huge difference in comfort. Dana uses rectangular carbon fiber bars running the length of the internal ArcFlexs. Osprey used a big Delrin horseshoe rod for their internals. Arcteryx has a 3rd and 4th stays with similar philosophy in mind.

Someone asked why Dana is so different than Kelty. This is one big reason why. Do the Barney's have anything like this? Their website sucks for information and viewing the packs. Anyone know of a video review of their pack(s) or a place to get several different angles of the frame and pack bodies? I'd love to know more about them.

I believe some survival schools (non-militia types) exercise with tarps acting like pack bodies and then using the compression straps as the harness system. You have the advantage of having a frame as a foundation. Great idea. I like the minimalism of it all. I reckon I like gear too much, or rather more than I appreciate minimalism.

UL Hikers have been at this for a while:'

http://www.moonbowgear.com/1trailgear/1Custom%20packs/Gearskins/gearskin.html

I've not tried it, but it looks like a MR Load Sling on a packframe would work out just fine.

The moonbow was partly the inspiration though I'd already tried sorting out how to drop the 5lbs of bag that was a pain to pack. Nothing fits quite right, it's a pain to access anything...

Now each dry sack I use has specific gear in it and is just the right size for that gear (cold weather, food, camp items/personals). I also use bags within bags. Each days meals are ziplocked so I can just grab and go. All personals are in another small sack etc, main fire kit in a sack, socks in a ziplock, so I can empty and repack a drysack without loosing anything.

My sleeping pad and bag get wrapped up like the moonbow making a sort of burrito, then the dry sacks are stacked lightest on the bottom heaviest on the top. Any tools (axe, saw) go closest to my back. Then the ends folded up and the whole thing strapped down.

When I get to camp I just unstrap and unfold. The tarp wrapping things up is the ground cloth while my canopy is the first thing off the pack. I can have it spread out and up in short order. Now all gear and the pack are protected from the elements and the stove can go together in relative comfort.

The only improvement I need to make is to get metal buckles or cams because the nylon/plastic ones on the straps have been breaking. I had some spares with me because of that.

--thumper338

You absolutely will not go wrong with a pair of Canadas by Meindl for your boots.

Meindl Alaska Hunter boots and Kenetrek hunter gaiters

Thumper, just man up and throw a diamond hitch over that load. All of your strap problems will go away, and you'll have by far the classiest load out on the trail.

Does anybody have any experience with Gregory packs for this kind of hunt you could share?

Denali Guide is great up to 80lbs then it starts having issues.

Osprey 110 Argon or the Archteryx Bora 95 are liked for internals.

Gregory thus wouldn't be bad with an assistant guide.

An interesting pack for your situation if you don't want an external but want a decent pack is the Lowe Expedition 85 + 15 that is made from Dyneema. It is basically an old Contour iv but with dyneema grid cloth and weighs about 4lbs. They run at about 350. This is a steal at this price and when people figure out what they really are they could be best Lowe offering in years. Problem is that they aren't selling and you might be able to snag one for considerably less.
You can haul the gun on the side or attach a kifaru gunbearer and still have enough capacity for a guided hunt/internal frame/ space for stuff and yet its light.

You can also look at the Kifaru internal frame packs. I think that they have been mentioned. I am just throwing you an interesting curve ball.

I also also looking at Meindl boots. I have two pairs of meindls that are from Germany. They are different from what cabelas sells no matter what people tell you.
Meindl has a product called the absolute Perfeckt. It is triple stitched and yet looks very good. I don't know where you could find one outside of AB Brooks but dang that looks like a straight up boot. A bit heavy and maybe some breakin time but you could where them almost to hell.

I presently run Hanwag GTX trappers and they are great. They took the glacial morraine and keep on smiling. I have regular feet and the hanwags fit fine without much for breakin.

Many people are crowing about the La Sportiva boots. Those red ones. I think that people with more narrow feet like these because they are very light and yet good.

I am just throwing out options for you.

Sincerely,
Thomas

That's mirrors my opinion as well...

Kaboku, I've looked at that Lowe pack with interest, but so far have only seen it on Lowe's website. Couldn't find a place that actually sold it. Where have you seen it for sale?

Beaver Sports up here in Fairbanks.

I have seen them for sale on other hiking websites usually marked down considerably. I think that they probably will discontinue them.

I have several contour ivs and Dana Design packs. However, I may spring for another Lowe Expedition because of the light weight and dyneema.

Sincerely,
Thomas

Barney's Pinnacle pack. I have a Kifaru Longhunter that I used on a Dall Sheep hunt and while an internal is more stable for me when side-hilling nothing compares to the comfort of my Barney's (which I promptly bought after the hunt). I'd like to give Mystery Ranch a ride one day because they get good reviews too.

I don't think that pack is full dyneema, it just has the dyneema grid, the body of the fabric is nylon, I think. The Gregory Pro (Makalu and Denali) have been made (in the US) of this for years. Apart from the old white Keltys with the yellow webbing, I'm not aware of any full dyneema packs besides the McHale.

There's no such thing as an inexpensive, NEW full Dyneema pack. The material is ridiculously expensive (same with silnylon), and it is a pain to sew. I'm surprised the price hasn't come down, but it seems like Gore-Tex, it just will not.

There's no such thing as an inexpensive, NEW full Dyneema pack. The material is ridiculously expensive (same with silnylon), and it is a pain to sew. I'm surprised the price hasn't come down, but it seems like Gore-Tex, it just will not.

Looks like it to me.

Exception is the 1000denier cordura pack bottom.

Sincerely,
Thomas

Pretty sure thats Dyneema grid.

it is

Like this stuff:

http://www.thru-hiker.com/materials/coated.php