Guys,

My mule deer hunt this year will likely have temps. in the single digits much of the time, and lower at night. I have an $80 REI gift cert. which I have been hoarding, and am thinking of some new long handles to wear under my wool and fleece. What would you recommend as decent stuff for cold and dry conditions? This will be a DIY hunt, so I will need good gear and am willing to spend the $$ as needed.

Thanks.

forepaw

Smartwool, medium-weight, top and bottoms. Sure made my 2nd rifle season, CO elk hunt comfy last year. We had temps from the 50's, down to the teens with both rain and snow and they worked great.

If not Smartwool at least some type of medium wt. merino wool. I "found" merino wool base layers here in this forum last fall and wore merino this winter. Great Stuff!


FWIW a medium wt Smartwool top will take care of your $80 gift card. You'll need another 80 bucks for the bottom! However, money well spent.

You may also want to check out Minus33 merino wool. They are VERY soft and do not itch like some of the others, and are often cheaper than most. I have had the opportunity to test out several merino wool companies over the past ten years, and the two or three companies that I prefer the best are Wool Power, Minus 33, and IO Bio.

No such thing as the "best" base layer, look at the "most comfortable pack" topic to see why.

I spend a lot of money on gear but I am cheap when it comes to clothing. For cold weather my favorite is Polartec power dry. I am not a fan of wool base layers. I tried a bunch of them based off recommendations from highly respected guys here. I found out that a prefer synthtic base layers. Under armor does not seem to stink nearly as bad as patagucci.

Smartwool

/end thread

I've got some of the REI brand long underwear in mid weight Polartec Powerdry that works very well. I like the merino wool but it is expensive and doesn't wear quite as well as good synthetics. Your gift card will cover top and bottoms with the power dry. It doesn't seem to have picked up the synthetic stink that the older synthetics would.
Given a choice with money no object- I'd take good merino wool. If I'm spending my money, then I buy Polartec.
In either colder or warmer conditions than you described, I start with a silkweight. The silk weight top makes a comfortable sunshield when it gets warm and a good first layer below expedition weight underwear in near zero conditions.

I'd go with Merino wool, but I would choose the lightest you can for a base layer.

I've tried a number of synthetics and we wear this stuff several months a year here in BC, but, I have never found one that equals good merino for me.

I like 140-150 wt. Icebreaker, superfine MEC and IO-Bio for a base layer and then a heavier Icebreaker in cold conditions and down or PL.insulated garments over that.

Synthetics seem to work better for some, but I still perfer wool for most conditions.
My upcoming issue of the Ed T's Backcountry Journal will have an article on Base Layers & Mid-Layers.

Merino wool is great. I have Smartwool and it is great stuff but minus 33 is the same material and can be found for cheaper. Kuiu, Sitka and first lite all make camo wool layers.

The last synthetics I tried were very light longies from MEC and what I found was that when I put them on at bedtime, they actually made me feel slightly chilled. Then, when I would get up during the night as we geezers oftimes must, I felt the same thing.

So, I just started to wear my spare merino longies to bed and they seem to keep me totally comfy in a very wide range of conditions.

I did this on a trip a few years ago, which started in a sudden snow and then sleet storm in mid-Sept, in BC's Chilcotin country and our "accomodations" were rather primitive, so, a warm bed was pretty important for the week-8 days we were there. I will be posting some photos of this here soon, after I get the discs made.

I prefer UA against the skin with Patagonia R1 above that over everything else I've tried, including my merino. Haven't had an issue with smelly synthetics since I quit using the army polypro 10 or more years ago.

I like to use 2 layers of merino, a microweieght 150gr. short sleeve crew neck tee shirt and briefs against the skin and a midweight 250gr. long sleeve zippered neck shirt and long bottoms over it when it gets cold.

Personally, I love Merino. Lightweight for baselayers, midweight for 2nd layer if needed. Synthetic gets stinky fast when worn several days in a row (for me, at least). I can (and do) wear the same Merino for a full week and not notice any significant body odors. And, if you're not in a hurry it's not too difficult to find some good sales, even at REI. Try to hit their Scratch and Dent sales and you might find some.

I have about 6 R1 pullovers and a bunch of Cap 3 stuff. They are comfortable to wear in mild weather. However, I much prefer Merino wool once it starts to freeze. As others have mentioned, I find Icebreaker and MEC to be great. Although I do want to try a set Woolpower this year. Have heard good things.

BTW, if I wear synthetics, I actually prefer Powerstretch over Power Dry. I have a Cabela's Powerstretch top that I find warmer and more comfortable than the Expedition powerdry R1s that I have

I haven't tried all of the different brands/materials available, but I have no complaints with any my Merino wool.

Here's a pretty good price for tops:
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___91988BLKXL#pr-header-91988

And bottoms:
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___03046?cm_vc=PDPZ2

The choices run from some sort of fine wool to a fast drying synthetic like Patagonia's Capliene.
Because I climb and cover alot of ground, I much prefer Capliene. That's because it dries alot faster than even the best wool.
Wool is warmer. So, for the hunter that doesn't climb alot, it may well be a better choice. E

I have thought about wearing a synthetic top for the wicking action as BC is all about climbing and is much colder and wetter than most US jurisdictions, more of an Alaskan-type of situation. Given the miniscule weight involved, I might try this in Sept, and keep my light merino top to put on when I get to the top of a ridge to glass and, hopefully, out-smart an Elk......they are usually MUCH "smarter" than I ever have been......

E, old boy, what specific synthetic do you find wicks the best and stinks the least? Any others have ideas on this?

Merino for me, with KUIU and Minus 33 being my favourites.

I ain't E, I'm L. <grin>

I have a couple pieces of the Patagonia capilene and it is great stuff for the warmer conditions. It does dry fast and odor is minimal. I'm far from an expert on the stuff but for much of the archery season and spring turkey, it is my choice layer. It is pretty sturdy stuff too. I have had some silk weight stuff that never lasted very long, especially the bottoms. The Patagonia lowers are still in great shape.

I like Patagonia's Capliene in Silkweight, or their lightest weight, for the fastest drying. I use their medium weight for a bit more warmth or even two layers, one Silkweight and another Medium weight when it's going to be well below zero. E

Thanks for info, lots of welcome comments. Was in REI today, and their selection was limited but did look at Capilene, Smartwool, Power-Dry, and silk. The prices on Campmor are about 1/2 of what REI is getting for Smartwool. I plan to check the other Merino brands, Minus 33 and others, as I have really liked the Merino I have used so far. I think it will be far superior to my old expedition weight polypro.

Do any of the Merino products need to be hand washed (Woolite), or is everything pretty much machine washable?

forepaw

Most of the merino can be washed in a machine with cold water on a delicate/gentle cycle. Hang to dry. Put it through a hot clothes dryer and you'll be giving it to a little kid to wear!

I wash mine by hand and dry spread on a towel always,except some Icebreaker socks and 1-2 sets of gonch, used for regulary winter wear here in BC.

I love IB socks, nothing I have found is as comfy and stays as fresh and "padded" as long. Unfortunately, Canadian Champion, Von Kruzenhaus Quean Lily Lovelyface, also "loves" them and has chewed a few pairs to shreds!

Lily, is the most badass Rottweiler I have ever seen, let alone been "owned" by and she depends on her great beauty and charm to get away with stuff.It works, too, as she leads mighty Trojan's Diamond in the Ruff,my superb Rottie male a "dog's life".

I've machine washed my merino wool socks and top many times. The trick is to use the cooler settings on the dryer and allow the drier to run cold air on it after the warm air. I've never had anything shrink. E

i've got a merino /nylon blend union suit. works good in cold weather.

I would purchase high quality long-underwear. I like Filson stuff. I've used a number of the name brand synthetics and really don't think they work as well as the traditional, natural wool stuff. There is a difference in quality, so I would spend the money on the higher quality wool if you're going that route.

http://www.filson.com

I'm no expert, just a guy whose spent over a grand on base layers in the last 5 years.

Smartwool, is the best I've tried so far. I don't like the fit on Icebreaker stuff, and it's itchy compared to other brands. I have not tried Kuiu or -33 brands yet.

Merino wool is where it's at. End of discussion

+1

It's the only one that you can deal with your own smell in after 10 days .... and I don't like carrying a whole wardrobe in the backcountry

Cheapo redram merino wool worked well for me.

as woolpower.

Another Smartwool fan here. And it can be had fairly reasonable if you look around. I've never paid more than $50 for a article of Smartwool.

I've never tried wool for base layers, but I will after this thread; but for me I've always been good to go with the synthetics....
I will usually wear just Under Armour when doing alot of walking because it really breathes well, but if I'm sitting I'll usually throw on a layer of Duo-fold synthetics , then wool pants.
I remember one walk I had to make in Montana on an elk hunt, I was down to just my UnderArmour and boots and backpack! (long ,fast-paced walk in...almost 2 hours) Great for wicking, but really cold when you stop...thats where the duo-folds come in handy.
johnny

Terramar is another merino base layer that is reasonably priced.

I have a couple different brands of wool. I think the Kuiu and Smartwool are the most comfortable. I've also tried silk, underarmor and capilene for base layers and merino wool works best for me.

One day elk hunting in synthetic=football daily doubles stink.
Ten days hunting in merino wool=hardly any stink.

YMMV

i am old school but new wool designs I have and use

MEC no name
smartwool
Ulfrotte (wool power) now

Of the three i prefer MEC base layers they make them long and in the similar weight as smartwool. the long shirt allow me to bend over or squat without the shirt riding up or pulling out of my pants.

ulfrotte wool is warmer for the same weight but is MUCH more loopy read less wind resistant but i find it to be the warmest of the 3 and has a tail section not quite as long as teh MEC but longer then smartwool

smart wool is a good shirt but design and features of the MEC and ulfrotte make it a 3rd choice.

Thanks
trevor

If starting from scratch, I recommend finding a place where you can physically handle the base layers prior to purchase. If not, spend the time researching current reviews on the base layers you are considering. Old reviews may have little value since the dive in the economy. Some of the high dollar stuff that had rave reviews not too long ago, have been redesigned to save production costs and currently have poor reviews. Something as simple as a change in waistband design can make the difference between great fit and comfort to poor fit and discomfort. Some stuff that was top notch may not even be worthy of use now.

As to the UA and Capilene, I can use those as examples of stuff where I disagree with some who give them great current reviews. The old Capilene was the only synthetics which I personally could use for long term backpack use. It would breathe like light wool and it would not become clammy. I used this Capilene from near day one of its release into the market and used it on everything from extreme mountain biking 125 mile long legs, to backpack hunts that went for weeks out of a bivy. This stuff was later changed and it no longer works as well for me. I then was given an entire set of UA to test. I found this stuff to be clammy with any extended use and in my opinion was best reserved for someone who can hit the locker room after a day of extreme use. I've read where others have given it a big thumbs up, but for me, I don't care for it as it turns into nothing more than a garbage bag when back packing a few days in foul conditions. It's not as bad as the old polypro, but it gets pretty darn clammy. LL Bean sent me some stuff they carried, I think it was called polarmax acclimate, but I didn't like it as much as good light to mid weight merino wool.

Flip side, some people don't care if they stink to high heaven after three or four days of hard backpacking in synthetics, and they prefer it to any of the downsides of wool. Some only go a short hike from the truck and are back home every evening, so having something that holds up to hard backpack use has little value. What fits your bill is for you to decide as it boils down to your personal comfort, not that of someone else.

Like a said earlier, I think it best to plan your tackle for very long term use. Take your time and be very choosey when you make a purchase. Good quality gear will last a great deal of time when used hard if given normal care. Hunting is a lifelong endevour. You don't need to pick the most expensive tackle to enjoy hunting. But it is much easier to enjoy hunting over your lifetime when you use tackle that works well with few failures.

Best

One of the things I've done with Capliene is to wash it in cold water after 3-4 days in the field. I've let it hang to dry on above freezing days for an hour or so and simply put it back on. Have done this for a couple of weeks at a time.
If it's really cold, I just put it on after wringing it out and stand around near the campfire for a while.
Try doing that with wool sometime.
What has really impressed me is if I don't peel as I'm climbing and get good and wet from the exercise, I can bundle up in my extra clothing when I stop to glass and the stuff will dry before I cool off too much and start to chill.
The merino base layer I have simply will not do this. E

I've had good luck with my First Lites. They are warm and dry quick and they are soft. A bonus is you can machine wash and dry them.

+1 capilene for me. phil

merino wool or silk

Since most of us here are hunters, and obviously concerned with stink...

Might I suggest you all do some research on the benefits of chlorophil used as a supplement before season opener.

I learned that little trick from G Fred Asbell. Maybe its just something us bowhunter types worry about...

I learned that trick from my older brother who is a pharmasist. Problem though is that some synthetic materials are fertile ground for bacterial growth due to the fiber design. No matter how well you maintain your personal odor, some synthetics take on a life of thier own, grow legs and begin to walk like a second homeless person.

But yes, chlorophil does work, not to make you undetectable by game animals, but it definitely keeps you clean smelling when otherwise you would not.

Best

Merino for me too.

I agree Gary, it knocks the stink down a few notches. Enough so that I feel game probably smells you and thinks "that human is still a hundred yards away..."

Chlorophil and Merino Wool works better than anything Scentlok sells.

Another Merino wool fan, will never go synthetic again.

I'm tired of the stink in my synthetics--even after washing...I'll be trying the Merino this year.

After using ua and other synthetics for the last ten years, I finally switched to merino last year after reading its good graces all over the internet. I don't see myself going back any time soon.

I spend a lot of time in a tree stand here in OK. The synthetics are great at wicking any moisture and regulating temp while walking into the stand, but once you are stationary they have almost no insulating properties. I could hunt one day and never even break a sweat and my synthetics stink to high heaven. They just seem to breed it. The merino on the other hand I can wear for 5 days straight and not a bit of stink. It regulates temp and pulls moisture almost as good as the synthetics, but has way better insulating properties once no longer moving. My only complaint on the merino, is that even the lightweight (170g) tops and bottoms I have tend to get a little too warm at times.

Another vote for Merino wool. I like stuff made by Icebreaker best, but there are others that are good, as well.

I completely agree with using merino wool base layers,but I have a hard time spending $35.00 -$50.00 for a pair of boxers
Tim

I hiked and hunted in ten degree weather in New Mexico with just my smartwool top, bottom, and fleece sweats. I had other layers in my bag but never got them out. Smart wool is great.

I don't mind capilene if I'm not super-active - otherwise, merino all the way.

Under Armor flat-out sucks.